Legal advice for craigslist users?

[frisky50]

Since the police are targeting craigslist users maybe some of our legal experts could give some advice. I doubt that the "money is for time only" disclaimer is really legal protection. I'd like to spread a few bucks among the young men near my WE place in upstate NY, but am apprehensive about being brought before one of the know-nothing local judges. Is offering money to a guy to hang out nude legal? What about paying a guy to give him a massage with a happy ending? I'm not going to mention a fee and a sex act in the same sentence but could I get in trouble for mentioning I like oral activities in the same message where I offer to pay someone for their companionship? What is safe language? What terminology should one avoid?

 

 

Help me to help my fellow man!

[frisky50]

Since the police are targeting craigslist users maybe some of our legal experts could give some advice. I doubt that the "money is for time only" disclaimer is really legal protection. I'd like to spread a few bucks among the young men near my WE place in upstate NY, but am apprehensive about being brought before one of the know-nothing local judges. Is offering money to a guy to hang out nude legal? What about paying a guy to give him a massage with a happy ending? I'm not going to mention a fee and a sex act in the same sentence but could I get in trouble for mentioning I like oral activities in the same message where I offer to pay someone for their companionship? What is safe language? What terminology should one avoid?

 

 

Help me to help my fellow man!

[+ deej]

The only legally safe position is not to do it.

 

If you're going to do it AT ALL, you're risking getting caught doing something you'd rather not be caught doing.

 

If the risk -- or getting caught -- is too much to bear, don't go there. Nobody will ever accuse you of doing something you haven't done.

 

If abstaining isn't for you, go into it knowing the risk is always present and be prepared to pay the price. If you cannot pay the price, you have no business doing it in the first place.

 

I don't say this to be mean. It's just honest.

[+ deej]

The only legally safe position is not to do it.

 

If you're going to do it AT ALL, you're risking getting caught doing something you'd rather not be caught doing.

 

If the risk -- or getting caught -- is too much to bear, don't go there. Nobody will ever accuse you of doing something you haven't done.

 

If abstaining isn't for you, go into it knowing the risk is always present and be prepared to pay the price. If you cannot pay the price, you have no business doing it in the first place.

 

I don't say this to be mean. It's just honest.

[+ Lucky]

Apparently Larry Craig will be writing a book after his retirement from the Senate on How Not To Get Caught for Years and Years. It will feature a forward by Mark Foley.

[+ Lucky]

Apparently Larry Craig will be writing a book after his retirement from the Senate on How Not To Get Caught for Years and Years. It will feature a forward by Mark Foley.

[Guest PWIT]

>Apparently Larry Craig will be writing a book after his

>retirement from the Senate on How Not To Get Caught for Years

>and Years. It will feature a forward by Mark Foley.

 

Actually Mark Foley is writing the chapter on 'How Young is Too Young' (actually updating previous work from Gerry Studds)

 

David Vitter's chapter 'It's OK if you are from Louisiana'

 

Gary Hart - 'Lap Dances Anyone?'

 

Barney Fank - 'Why Buy the Cow When You Can Get the Milk for Free'

 

Larry Craig - 'Stand Tall and Take a Wide Stance'

 

hell, it will not be a book, but a multi volume set. just search on political sex scandals - there is no shortage of new material.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/congress.htm

[Guest josephga]

As A massage therapist i can tell you asking for a massage with a happy ending is still considered asking for prostitution. I wont even talk about that with clients on emails or phone calls.

[Guest ncm2169]

< It will feature a forward by Mark Foley.

 

Wait!! I'm confused. x( Who's the top here and who's the bottom? }(

[Zapped]

Minimizing risk

 

There is the issue of minimizing risk, even when risk cannot be avoided. Please note

 

I'm not a lawyer; these comments are based on what I've read here over the years.

 

1) Don't discuss on the phone, in email, or in person how much a specific sexual act costs. Stay away from any escort who tries to steer the conversation in that direction.

 

2) Do not pay up front or discuss the escorts fee at the start of the encounter. Pay at the end of the session.

 

3) Check for a review here or post a 411 query in the Deli section. While it is not impossible that someone with a history of positive reviews, or whom people verify as an actual escort in the Deli, will have been forced to become the bait in a sting, it's unlikely.

 

4) A new face on Craig's list, whom no one here has heard of, would seem to me to be the most likely candidate to be part of a sting. Same thing applies to guys trolling chat rooms for clients.

 

Caveat emptor!

 

-Eric

[frisky50]

Thanks to the three guys who gave helpful information - the other three seemed to be practicing their comedy routines. No one answered the basic question: given that paying for sex is illegal, what about paying for nudity? If I pay a guy to "hang out naked" with no touching is it still illegal? ( If I advertize for a "model" to "sketch" does it become illegal if I require that the "model" be a young, slim male? )

Many thanks to josephga and brian 4125 for their comments.

Deej, who got caught up in a rant on risk taking can relax. I'm not some nervous nelly hiding in a closet - I was a poster here many years ago, when this was a far,far better place. I have hired about two dozen guys from the listings here, and reviewed about eight of them, one of which was Mick, the author of the first post on the police and craigslist. I would hire from this site without a second thought, but my post was about rural places like upstate NY. Once the local troopers have spent 2 hours lacing their boots they have nothing else to do. If they decide to "git us some homos" the arrest info is published in the local papers for the amusement of all your ( inbred ) neighbors

[+ Lucky]

frisky, I am so sorry if you were unsatisfied with the replies to your inquiry. You made it kind of difficult though, because you said that the judges in your upstate weekend home were "no-nothings." If that's the case, it doesn't matter what the law is, these stupid judges you are stuck with may not follow it anyway.

 

Another variable to consider is that cops lie. Yes, they do. So suppose that it is legal to pay a guy to hang out nude with you. Then, suppose further that this very guy is an undercover cop. It becomes your word against his as to what you agreed to. So, even if we tell you, "sure, frisky, it's okay to hire a guy to get nude with you," we don't know if he is going to lie in court and say that you really asked to pay him for sex. So, if you get convicted by some no-nothing judge after our advice fails, we don't want you coming back and slamming us all for our well-intentioned advice. Not that you would do such a thing like coming back and slamming us all for our responses.

 

So, when left with lying cops and no-nothing judges, why not look at it with a sense of humor?

[mercury40]

Frisky, you've asked good legal questions that I've also wondered about. I'm no lawyer but here are 2 things I've been told to do before hiring.

 

1. If emailing the guy, ask if he's a cop or working for the vice squad. I've been told they have to be honest if asked otherwise it's considered entrapment. If the question is avoided, move on to someone else.

 

2. If a guy shows up and you're not certain, ask to see his dick first. It's against police policy to expose your dick... There was a bathhouse in NYC that used this policy, "no dick, no entry". :-)

 

To avoid legal consequences, it's best to cover all your bases first.

 

Using cl is a hit or miss type proposition. But when a "hit" comes along, it's worth the time and risk.

 

Good luck and I hope someone has an answer to your inquiry.

[+ LIguy]

"Thanks to the three guys who gave helpful information - the other three seemed to be practicing their comedy routines. No one answered the basic question: given that paying for sex is illegal, what about paying for nudity? If I pay a guy to "hang out naked" with no touching is it still illegal? ( If I advertize for a "model" to "sketch" does it become illegal if I require that the "model" be a young, slim male? )"

 

I advertise on Craigslist all the time looking for guys to pose for me stripping nude from a suit n tie.I make it clear when they respond that I will not touch them or expect sex from them but I expect a cum shot at the end of the session.This is not illegal or hundreds of porn companies and photographers would be out of business.I do this for my own private collection and I make the model prove his age with a NYS drivers license even though the guys I have hired were in their 20's.Also usually one of the first shots I take is that of the guy fully dressed with his dick hanging out.I also have a video camera taping the session from the moment the guy walks in til he leaves.

[+ Lucky]

It would be nice if prostitution was just legalized since it won't go away, but many municipalities fight it all the time. The craigslist fight seems futile for the police, given the number of ads and the multitude of customers, but if you're the guy arrested, it's still a pretty big deal.

 

Unfortunately, mercury, cops can deny that they are cops and it is perfectly legal. You can ask him to show his dick, and maybe a cop won't, but don't underestimate the willfulness of a cop who spends his time hunting craigslist offenders. He is usually enforcing his own moral opinions and not the law, as most cops have better things to do.

 

Frisky wants an unequivocal legal opinion. Yet even if state law doesn't forbid hiring someone to be nude, there could be a local ordinance against it. We don't know know where frisky has his upstate weekend home so we can't tell him the state or local laws there. And, even if we could, we might get it wrong, or one of those no-nothing judges will throw the book at him anyway. So his chastising us for our answers begs the question of how hopeless his inquiry is in the first place.

[MiamiLooker]

>1. If emailing the guy, ask if he's a cop or working for the

>vice squad. I've been told they have to be honest if asked

>otherwise it's considered entrapment. If the question is

>avoided, move on to someone else.

 

 

If you take this advice, maybe we'll see your picture on the local news. It's not entrapment unless the response induces you to do something illegal.

[Guest josephga]

The story about cops having to tell you they are cops if you ask them is a myth. only happens in the movies. they can lie. my experience with giving massages over the last 9 years is the best clients are the ones who ask the least questions.

[mercury40]

lucky... are you a cop? :-)

[+ Lucky]

Am I a cop? Well, figure it out for yourself: I'll show you my dick!

[jackhammer91406]

Got an email yesterday from a buddy in Jacksonville, FL.

He told me the police have busted 33 CLIENTS in 2 days in sting operations using Craig's List.

Not sure what they are charged with or if the charges will even stick, but one thing is pretty evident; it should decrease the amount of usage just from fear, which may be exactly what the police had in mind.

[Cooper]

"Got an email yesterday from a buddy in Jacksonville, FL. He told me the police have busted 33 CLIENTS in 2 days in sting operations using Craig's List."

 

JH, I was just viewing NYC's craigslist.com under "men seeking men". I was wondering which one of these titles could suggest a sting operation?

 

1. Piss Drinker

2. Cross Dressing Slut in her Panties

3. Dump For Pay

4. Blond Butt Needs To Be Plowed Now

5. Slave and Houseboy

6. Big Dick Cum Party at my Hotel

7. Brothers Fucking

8. Yankees fan looking 4 smoking cableguy

9. Bareback bottom in hotel seeking loads

10. Let me expertly spread your legs open.

[jackhammer91406]

Hey MR. Cooper,

I believe most of the sting operations originate out of the erotic section where escorts and masseurs advertise.