Suicide

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

Hello twinkboylover28,

 

I am sorry to hear you had to experience such a loss.

 

Gregory sounded like a wonderful person who will now cause an emptiness in the lives of those he touched.

 

>Suicide, perhaps more than any other cause of death,

>challenges our way of thinking about the person who died and

>our relationships with them. I feel numb, angry, and sad.

 

Indeed, suicide is very perplexing. Sometimes the traditional warning signs are not there. We can only hope that our friends know they can talk to us at any time about anything.

 

>Everyone asks - where did I fail? Everyone blames themselves

>for Greg's death, at least a little bit. And almost everyone

>who knew him blames someone else too, at least a little bit.

 

Suicide is a choice and it is a choice we can never fully understand. Though people will blame themselves and blame others, it is not fair to do so. If a person no longer has the will to live then that can't be blamed on anyone.

 

The emotions you will experience over the next day/week/month/year/decade with fluctuate. Ultimately you will have to choose to celebrate the good memories.

 

My thoughts go out to you.

 

VDN

[Guest zipperzone]

I am very sorry to hear of your loss.

 

Suicide and the reasons for are very hard to understand.

 

I have never been at the point where I would consider it as a way of solving problems.

 

But.... I can see a situation where your world is a point where the effort to go on living isn't worth it to you. The most common of these circumstances is the pain that occurs with some terminal illnesses. Other reasons are less obvious. If however I had a friend who had chosen suicide I would try and view his decision as being the best for him. Nobody can know somebody elses pain even if that person cares to share it with you. I would respect his decision even although I could not understand it. And I would try not to judge him.

 

I am quite certain that if my life becomes not worth living, as in old age it might, I would end my own life rather than having to rely on the kindness of others.

 

And for those of you who are salivating at this thought - forget it - I ain't even close yet.:-)

[Boston Guy]

TBL:

 

I haven't posted here in quite some time, or even logged in. But I decided to stop by and saw your note and wanted to offer you my condolences.

 

I think you've got it just right. No one will ever truly know why someone else commits suicide. Survivors always feel guilt. We wonder what we could have done. And, in the end, we finally realize that it wasn't our fault and, most likely, we couldn't have done anything.

 

I'm terribly sorry that your lost a friend and that, worse, he was young and in the prime of his life. I hope you get to a point where you can smile when you think of him and be happy that he was in your life for a little while. Until then, please know that you will be in my thoughts and those of many who read your note.

 

With condolences,

BG

[+ glutes]

Condolences TBlover.

Perhaps you could bring this topic up in your radio show, I am sure Greg is listening.

[gregkidman]

Not to go off-topic, but I am interested in 'turning-points' where people, who have hit rock-bottom and have considered suicide, then there was a turning-point and returned from the abyss? Has anyone gone through this experience? I want to know more about these turning-points. Perhaps we can cultivate more of these turning-points and save people this way.

 

Yours,

Greg

[raulgmanzo]

Hey TBL28

So sorry to hear about your friend. I agree with ValleyDwellerNorth that we it is not fair to blame ourselves and others. Yet I know the pain, anger, sadness and confusion you must feel.

 

Years ago a coworker I admired and I were engineers working very closely on a stressful project. The whole company was depending on us. One friday I had an argument with my coworker, we yelled at each other. On monday morning he didn't showup and when our boss asked me if I knew where he was I said something crass like I hoped he had the flu and wouldn't be coming in. We finally found out that he had killed himself over the weekend. Boy I was stunned, so sad I was sick. So angry at myself for arguing with him. So mad that I hadn't seen that something was seriously wrong. Angry with our bosses for putting so much stress on us. Even mad at him for not asking for help.

 

Of course I had to finish his part of the project, sitting at his desk, using his computer going through his papers. It was so hard at first but in the end it turned out to be an important part of my grieving process. Though I'm still sad I've mostly forgiven myself and others. But every now and then I'll admit I'm still a bit angry.

 

It's taken me a long time to accept what a gift it was to be exposed to a mostly beautiful part of my otherwise troubled coworkers life. It seems like you got exposed to a beautiful part of Gregory during the time you spent with him. I hope that stays with you.

[Okliehomo]

You know, I think that after reading that, I might just want to marry you...

 

And since that is not an option....at the very least, fly you to exotic Oklahoma and judge for myself whether or not you have a swimmer's body....

 

Okie

[+ purplekow]

>Not to go off-topic, but I am interested in 'turning-points'

>where people, who have hit rock-bottom and have considered

>suicide, then there was a turning-point and returned from the

>abyss? Has anyone gone through this experience? I want to

>know more about these turning-points. Perhaps we can

>cultivate more of these turning-points and save people this

>way.

>

 

Recent work with survivors of suicide attempts, gun shot that somehow does not kill the individual for example, indicate that most work through whichever problem tipped the balance and go on to live useful lives and cannot explain what brought them to the brink of despair. A significant minority do have deep seated psychologic problems.

 

Those who make suicide gestures, taking pills and immediately call for help or doing so when they know someone is coming to look for them, make these gestures repeatedly and it is often a cry for attention or a cry for help.

 

However well we know another person, we can never fully understand everything that is contributing to a particularly difficult time in his life and not even the ones going through it cannot fully understand it. We can review our interactions with these people and always see a better way to have handled an interaction with them, but the fact is, few of us have that much impact on others thoughts and actions.

 

Grieve your friend and appreciate your loss and try to make your own life better for having known him. Comfort others in their loss. Accept that you had little control of things that brought him to the brink and no control over his actions once he was there. Look into your own life and promise that you will never be so desparate to think there is no alternative.

[Louis]

TBL

I'm saddened to read about your friend. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and for various reasons people get desparate and do desparate things.

Many people go through life without being completely open with their friends, and sometimes they feel that they would be a burden to others if they started talking about their personal problems whether they be percieved or real.

Its too bad that he didn't share with you the issues that he had, but then again many people can mask what's going on in their lives.

I know you feel a loss, and you may even be analyzing the situation. All I can say is don't blame yourself, and say, "if only I did this, or if only he told me that". You can only help those who want to be helped. Sometimes when people get desparate, they don't allow others to get close enough so that they can be of help, so its got nothing to do with you.

You have known him several years, and you were fortunate to have known him that long.

Suicide is tragic, but those who survive have to move on. Sure you will remember him, but when you think about him, think about the good things.

[+ Italiano]

Sorry to hear that.

When I was 19, my older sister who was 31 at the time decided to end her life. She had been trying to do that a year earlier unsuccesfully, so when it happened my family was totally in shock, but it wasn't something that we would have never expected.

 

She had been going through up and down depression for years previous to her big decision, I remember just a few days before she killed herself being sitted by her, she was crying and telling me she did not have the strengths to fight her desperation, I told her she HAD to find it in within herself and nobody could have helped her unless that would have happened.

I felt somehow a bit responsible when it happened recalling our conversation, I felt I could have done something more than just saying that, even if as a teen ager I don't really think I could have done much more...

It is very hard to understand how a loved one can be so determined by hanging herself, for years I had bad visions in my mind picturing her putting the noose around her neck, stepping on that stool and kicking it.

 

Almost 28 years have passed by and some of the unanswered questions are still there.

And for my old mom some memories are still very painful, I think loosing a child and especially that way is absolutely devastating forever.

 

We cannot understand, it's not easy to get to terms with all those questions or guilt feelings when a loved one does something like that, but eventually time arrives for that, somehow.

[ServeUncutUncle]

Its HELL for me every day :-(

 

You never know why somebody does it, and have to live with the pain the rest of your life.

 

One minute the most important person if your life is with you then 3 hours, 60 Asprins and a Razor Blade later they are Gone forever.

[twinkboylover28]

I never really gave much thought to people who committed suicide before. It's something "other people" did.

 

Well, sadly, my perspective on suicide changed recently when a friend of mine killed himself.

 

His name was Gregory.

 

He was only 23.

 

I saw him online nearly every night over the past six years. I have known him since he was 16. He was one of the most compassionate, loving, and witty people you could ever know.

 

He was one of the "good guys", and nows he's gone - forever.

 

Suicide, perhaps more than any other cause of death, challenges our way of thinking about the person who died and our relationships with them. I feel numb, angry, and sad.

 

Nobody had realised how difficult things were for him.

 

When someone commits suicide, people who were close feel very guilty. We "wish there was something we could have done", "something we could have said."

 

Everyone asks - where did I fail? Everyone blames themselves for Greg's death, at least a little bit. And almost everyone who knew him blames someone else too, at least a little bit.

 

Gregory chose to be responsible for ending his own life. That is on him. It was his decision. Nobody else is to blame but him. He wasted his life, and it was a a good life.

 

Nobody can really know why he ended his life. Suicide is the final act in a complex web of causes. But nobody knows WHY.

 

In the end we don't know much. Even Greg, if we were able to ask him, would not be able to give a very clear explanation of WHY he did it. So there is no way we can know for sure.

 

He must have been privately enduring a great deal of pain in his life. And now that pain is over.

 

Gregory, like each of us, carried his own hopes and fears, his own angels and demons, his own areas of light and darkness; however, he protected those he loved from his demons and his darkness. That was a mistake that we all sometimes make.

 

Sometimes we think our darkness is too great, too personal to share.

 

We are wrong.

 

If we could only learn to share the darkness with our friends and those we love. But Greg didn't share the darkness, and so we can never really know.

 

And it leaves me very sad.

 

 

http://behaviour.livejournal.com

 

http://www.myspace.com/friendsofgreg

[twinkboylover28]

Thank you to everyone who contributed your sincere and profound comments. They certainly will help me in my grieving process.

[+ Tygerscent]

Yes Raul has a very tight swimmers bod!

Tyger!

http://www.tygerscent.biz

503.317.8055

http://www.daddysreviews.com/area.php?loc=63150&who=tyger_portland

men4rentnow.com tygerscent in Portland, Oregon

[+ Tygerscent]

Understandable about the feelings of loss and guilt, anger, confusion, dismay... I went through this as well with my Partner of 6 years. We were accepted and heading to Medical school together. The guy was a chemistry genious.... I put him thru school and provided for him the entire time.

He had some internal and personal issues that he was not able to work out and committed suicide. I was able to recognize when he was about to move in that direction and intervened five or six times... the staff up in the emergency clinic began to know us on a first name basis. While in the midst of trying to work through my own understanding of his situation and how his actions were effecting me, I realized at some point, his deeper concerns were bigger then both of us. There were some things in his life that neither of us were able to control or communicate.

I was the one who found him and it wasn't pretty. I was completely overwhelmed and in this bizarre state of feeling everything and nothing all at the same time.

I came to realize that this was a decision that he had made himself about himself. A strong resolution to concerns about his life. That decision was not either my own for him or the people around him that loved him.

As complex of a situation that it is... I can not deny that there were beautiful moments that we shared together. I still Love him deeply and miss him tremendously.

Whether self inflicted or not, death is an aspect of life. What I learned from him was that there is great value in appreciating and monumentalizing the good moments we share together in life and do what I can to make them happen. Not just with him but with anyone.

While his actions effected those around him, his intention was not to punish us or hurt us as much as it was a means of defending himself... protecting himself from other forces he percieved harmful... threats he believed in on a personal level whether real or not. While he was not fully able to believe that the people around him Loved him and would have wanted his happiness and safety for him, we DID!

He Loved us too or at least wanted to and did that to the best of his ability. My healing comes from that point.

I am always Thankful that he was a part of my life.

This is simply my experience with suicide. I am sure that your own situation is unique and personal to you. So, I don't assume to know your feelings or place of conscience in all that you mentioned exactly. I am happy to listen without judgement or trying to tell you what you feel or how to think. Healing is an individual process. You have posted your experience and some thoughts here on the board perhaps as part of that process. So, if talking out loud to someone with a somewhat similar experience but who is objective might be helpful call or write to me.

When at times we feel loss... it is our spirit we inevitably find.

Tyger!

http://www.tygerscent.biz

503.317.8055

http://www.daddysreviews.com/area.php?loc=63150&who=tyger_portland

men4rentnow.com tygerscent in Portland, Oregon

[Philly Guy]

>Recent work with survivors of suicide attempts, gun shot that

>somehow does not kill the individual for example, indicate

>that most work through whichever problem tipped the balance

>and go on to live useful lives and cannot explain what brought

>them to the brink of despair. A significant minority do have

>deep seated psychologic problems.

>

>Those who make suicide gestures, taking pills and immediately

>call for help or doing so when they know someone is coming to

>look for them, make these gestures repeatedly and it is often

>a cry for attention or a cry for help.

>

>However well we know another person, we can never fully

>understand everything that is contributing to a particularly

>difficult time in his life and not even the ones going through

>it cannot fully understand it. We can review our interactions

>with these people and always see a better way to have handled

>an interaction with them, but the fact is, few of us have that

>much impact on others thoughts and actions.

>

 

 

As it turns out a close friend of mine ended his life this week as well.

 

After 25 years in his job with a boss that took advantage of him on a constant basis he decided to retire. When he ran out of money he decided to re-enter the only field he had ever worked in only to find that his previous employer had poisoned him in the industry.

 

I called him over the weekend to get together and was rejected due to his depression. I did not press the matter and learned that he had failed TWICE previously at suicide with Pills.

 

It may very well been a cry for help as he was discovered at the brink of death on both occasions.

 

This week was different. He carefully wrapped himself in a towel so not to create a mess in his bedroom and shot himself. It was effective.

 

I am upset with myself for not being more forcefull in insisting on a visit or not seeing the signs. I am upset with those who did see the signs and did not inform me of the dire state Andy was in.

[Louis]

Philly Guy:

It does not matter what you do or say, if a person is intent on killing themselves they will do it. It is true that you can talk people out of it, but I knew a few people, who felt that death was the only solution. A few of the guys I knew were not depressed at all, they just made a mess of their lives, and decided not to go on, rather than face the music so to speak.

I also had one very good friend did not send out any signals as to his intention, but he did visit me a few hours before he ended his life. His passing has been the most difficult for me to deal with, because we were very close.

All told I have had ten relatives or friends do themselves in. Most of the deaths have been within the past six years, and the oldest one in the past six years was 35, one of my closest friends, the others were in their late teens or early twenties.

I know about death and the problems that survivors have trying to deal with it, and I also understand how you feel.