Red flags and alarm bells galore

[LivingnLA]

Thank you @Wolfer for sharing your experience. I'm sorry some people decided to be so aggressive in their replies, but that's life. Our species needs optimism. It's critical to our success as a species. Defensive Pessimism has it's place too, but don't let it rule your life because pessimism is corrosive. As with all things, it goes without saying that optimism in moderation is healthiest.

 

https://healthypsych.com/the-science-of-optimism/

 

The challenge with this hobby is that it mixes emotions, fantasy, physicality, and more. It's easy for even the most rational and cautious of us to be duped because our species is predisposed to trust those who are objectively attractive, that's part of our species and it's hard to override.

 

http://news.rice.edu/2006/09/21/rice-study-suggests-people-are-more-trusting-of-attractive-strangers/

 

Don't beat yourself up too much. Try to learn from the experience. Identify the "warning signs" so you're better prepared the next time you decide to dive into this intriguing fantasy world.

Edited October 30, 2018 by LivingnLA

[rvwnsd]

Both quotes were from the night of the party (so the second time we met). The request to transfer money was made when he bought me a drink at the bar in his hotel, just before we were to get ready for the party. It was in his hotel room that he said I could drive him to his dealer.

If he'd said any of that the first time I would not have met up with him for a second time.

...

That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. What a weird experience. Very glad you emerged from the situation unharmed and reasonably unscathed.

 

PS: I liked the way you wrote the narrative. Sounded like a short story.

[Gymowner]

So Living... what is your said "optimism" in this sort of situation? That the escort becomes even more gorgeous over time while finally stating to the world " this John is the best human being I have ever met. I am becomming attracted to him day by day and cant stop thinking about him. I no longer want to take money from him but will ask to move in next week with him"

 

You use supporting writings to make a point. Yet what concerns me is that your last paragraph doesnt try to help the John say "no" to these warning signs yet make a point of others using "defensive pessimism" when trying to help.

 

When a mother sees her child putting his hand up to a fire on the stove she quickly takes him away and gives him a lecture with "defensive pessimism". Is that wrong? Or should she help him "identify the warning signs so that next time he is better prepared? Both are parenting to help. Just a different way to help create the urgency to not do something again. That is the point here.

[Jeffster]

Troll alert!

 

Ya, right because I have a healthy sense of self and know when someone is using me.

 

The codependency in some of you is just astounding. A hooker you meet for business is not going to be your friend unless he wants something off you, except in the rarest of occasions...especially NOT someone who asks you to go with him to a gay club (probably wants you to pay his admission fee and for all his drinks, anyway) and then asks you to drive him to his dealer.

 

If the OP is so starved for friendship, he should buy a dog.

[BostonTom]

Ya, right because I have a healthy sense of self and know when someone is using me.

 

The codependency in some of you is just astounding. A hooker you meet for business is not going to be your friend unless he wants something off you, except in the rarest of occasions...especially NOT someone who asks you to go with him to a gay club (probably wants you to pay his admission fee and for all his drinks, anyway) and then asks you to drive him to his dealer.

 

If the OP is so starved for friendship, he should buy a dog.

No, because your tone is so demeaning and dismissive. You know, I have a funny feeling you may have fallen for some hooker's line yourself . . . and if so, my condolences.

[Gymowner]

Tom, I dont know if his tone is demeaning. I know I for one am trying to help. We are talking about grown men here... not children. He is correct if self esteem is an issue from things that did or didnt happen in life, money would be better off used to find out why these issues are here in the first place. Let's not forget what the escort is for. An hour or two of companionship. To go beyond that needs to be looked at.

[LivingnLA]

So Living... what is your said "optimism" in this sort of situation? That the escort becomes even more gorgeous over time while finally stating to the world " this John is the best human being I have ever met. I am becomming attracted to him day by day and cant stop thinking about him. I no longer want to take money from him but will ask to move in next week with him"

 

The "optimism" was in @Wolfer's thinking when the escort played the "friend" card. It's natural and completely expected for him to have trusted the "friend" angle after their various interactions because of the various biologic, emotional, & psychological impressions from those interactions.

 

You use supporting writings to make a point. Yet what concerns me is that your last paragraph doesnt try to help the John say "no" to these warning signs yet make a point of others using "defensive pessimism" when trying to help.

 

Huh? I specifically said to learn from this experience and try to identify the "warning signs" so that @Wolfer would be better prepared in future interactions. In other words, I encouraged the development of some Defensive Pessimism in these kinds of interactions.

 

When a mother sees her child putting his hand up to a fire on the stove she quickly takes him away and gives him a lecture with "defensive pessimism". Is that wrong? Or should she help him "identify the warning signs so that next time he is better prepared? Both are parenting to help. Just a different way to help create the urgency to not do something again. That is the point here.

 

It depends on the lecture and how she reacts because if she's "excessive" that has long-term implications for the child's development in a variety of ways. In purest terms, if the mother hadn't interfered, the child's reflexes would've protected from serious injury and the child would've learned a very valuable lesson in a profoundly impactful way. But, since she did interfere, her lecture and reaction hopefully conveyed the right sense of urgency to prepare the child to better assess the world around her without excessive negative emotion or thinking.

 

If you're suggesting some of the harsh replies in this thread are concerned parents trying to help, then I would say they are excessive and their "influence of parent socialization" skills display maladaptive pessimism that will negatively impact healthy development.

 

https://bio.rutgers.edu/~gb102/lab_5/103am-pns.html

 

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/04/how-do-you-affect-your-child/

 

https://my.vanderbilt.edu/developmentalpsychologyblog/2014/05/parental-influence-on-the-emotional-development-of-children/

 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01650250114300003

Edited October 30, 2018 by LivingnLA

[LivingnLA]

We are talking about grown men here... not children.

 

@Gymowner, I'm going to take you at your word that you're "trying to help" and give a couple of points about why I have said what I've said about the more aggressive replies in this thread. I value your thoughts. I've stuck up for you before, just as I have challenged you before on other topics. That's what I love about this forum, the diversity of thinking and contributions of so many smart people.

 

1. Text communication is flawed because it's missing contextual cues, especially vocal tone and body language. The net effect for many/most human beings is that text is read more harshly or negatively if it isn't very well written with care for the audience.

 

2. Some of the most fascinating research is exploring how humans are essentially the synthesis of our life experiences overlaid upon our reflexes in a way that allows us to extrapolate from those experiences to navigate the world. What's interesting about this line of thought: it means that we are--in some sense--"children" when we're exposed to radically different experiences. As an example, many older LGBTQ people talk about their "second puberty" when they finally come out. It's like they're learning how to have relationships all over again. Over time, they discover the commonalities and variances and adapt accordingly.

 

3. For many humans, when we're learning is when we're also very self-conscious and frequently vulnerable to personalization of failure. In other words, we blame ourselves or are very self-critical of our mistakes and failures. This--in moderation--is good in that it helps us analyze and learn from our mistakes, but if taken too far results in negative outcomes. The opinions and words of those around us as we expose ourselves by sharing our mistakes can have significant impact.

 

If this forum is to be a supportive community, we should self-reflect on our tendencies toward negativity and pessimism. They're completely normal and expected given the nature of the topics that typically arise on this forum, but we should consider how an excessive amount not only holds us all back but also does harm to everyone here, including all the lurkers who read and never contribute.

[BaronArtz]

 

I felt like my self-respect was going down the drain along with his poop-water.

 

 

I just LOVE how you describe things …. that was hilarious! If it wasn't so depressing. I am glad you did see him for who he really was and cut him out. Good for you.

[BostonTom]

Tom, I dont know if his tone is demeaning. I know I for one am trying to help. We are talking about grown men here... not children. He is correct if self esteem is an issue from things that did or didnt happen in life, money would be better off used to find out why these issues are here in the first place. Let's not forget what the escort is for. An hour or two of companionship. To go beyond that needs to be looked at.

I'd say "demeaning" is putting it nicely. And if Wolfer is looking for a therapist, I'm sure he'll let us know.

[MisterMike]

OK, but who is gonna play you in the movie version of this riveting dramatic tale?

[Jeffster]

No, because your tone is so demeaning and dismissive. You know, I have a funny feeling you may have fallen for some hooker's line yourself . . . and if so, my condolences.

 

If you think that’s “demeaning and dismissive,” and “aggressive,” you’ve led a charmed life.

 

Man up.

[NowOrNever]

No, because your tone is so demeaning and dismissive. You know, I have a funny feeling you may have fallen for some hooker's line yourself . . . and if so, my condolences.

 

Sadly, the entire internet is rife with posters (safe behind their keyboards and cloaked in anonymity) with a curious, desperate need to elevate themselves (at least in their own minds) by denigrating others. If you point out their gratuitous antagonism, they go on the attack and react with instantaneous and relentless fury, desperate to avoid examining the reasons behind their aberrant behavior.

 

They arouse my pity, actually. Going through life being that miserable must be painful.

[LoveNDino]

"Hey, you can help me out with that. Send my money in your name back home to my account in Colombia."

I cocked my head as I put down the drink he'd bought me.

 

Just a couple of days ago I'd had a nice session with him. He was sweet and a bit talkative. But something was a little off. During our post-coitus (excuse my verbiage) conversation I wondered a couple of times "Did he just call me ugly?". Which, obviously he didn't, he wouldn't, of course...

The sex itself, while nice, almost felt like a broadway show production: entertaining but vapid and rehearsed.

But then he invited me to spend time off the clock on Saturday and go to a big gay party together. One of the biggest in Belgium (almost 8000 attendies). And I agreed because I was really attracted to him and I thought it would be nice to spend some more time with him.

 

"You can drive me to my dealer!"

Saturday night had come 'round and I was in Brussels by car. A slight frown formed on my face. Why had he invited me exactly?

Since driving into the city center of Brussels requires nerve, skill and steel resolve in such amounts that I lack, I declined. He got annoyed with me but I did show him where the meetup spot was in Brussels and walked with him there and back.

 

"Oooh, I'm gonna get so high for the party, you take care of me okay?"

I sat on the bed in his hotel room. Taking note that he was not sitting next to me, but all the way on the other side of the room in the only chair available.

And then something started dawning on me: he just wants a chaperone. He has no other interest in me.

While this realization set in I could hear the water spurts from him douching in the bathroom, ready to get fucked by any other guy besides me. I felt like my self-respect was going down the drain along with his poop-water.

I did promise to drive him to the party. I did promise to go together. But... Did I really want to spend hours watching him working the room while I... Just felt left out?

I didn't.

I hadn't made any plans with my friends but I knew some of them were gonna be at the party so I texted them.

When the guy came out of the bathroom I told him: "I'm sorry I misunderstood. I thought you invited me for other reasons. So I'll still drive you to the party like I promised but once there I'm meeting up with my friends."

The room went freezing cold.

"Oh, well, I'm still gonna do my hair so you can leave now." His voice could cut steel. And that was that, suddenly I had turned invisible. He didn't even acknowledge I was there and was completely unresponsive as I said "Bye, have fun!" as I left the room.

 

I thought about going home but I decided to go to the party anyway and have a blast. We do create our own experiences, after all. I met up with my friends and had a load of fun.

 

That was quite... the experience. The guy was a player. As long as he got what he wanted he was sweet as vanilla ice cream but if you denied a request fire would flash across his eyes.

I'm happy I spoke up. I have been in situations like this before where I said nothing and allowed myself to be run over completely. Well, seems like experience is finally teaching me something.

@Wolfer thank you for sharing!

[rvwnsd]

It is always gratifying (bordering on faith-in-humanity-restoring) to read the well-thought, artfully-crafted constructive commentary that is offered up when Forum members share experiences like this. The enormity of hearts and minds is overwhelming. Simply overwhelming.

[+ azdr0710]

thanks @Wolfer from me, too......I read your story from the very beginning as a real-life experience (and practical "warning") much related to something any of us might very easily encounter.....

 

unfortunately, one of the forum grumps offered up the very first reply and doomed the thread and subsequent discussion

[Aaron James]

Thanks @Wolfer I’ve had a similar experience, or three...

 

It’s amazing how easy it is to ignore the warning signs and think maybe this time/this guy is different.

 

They never are

[BostonTom]

If you think that’s “demeaning and dismissive,” and “aggressive,” you’ve led a charmed life.

 

Man up.

Well, my life wasn't too bad, overall, until I crossed paths with you . . .

[BgMstr4u]

Thanks, @Wolfer, for sharing your story. I love hearing about experiences like this because they are real. I’ve certainly made my share of wrong turns down the lane, survived, and later on was glad to have had the experience. I don’t mind being a foolish old man sometimes. Not that you are or were, but it can happen to all of us. I find joy in being stirred by beauty and am glad when my energy starts flowing, even if I know it flows mostly downhill. So what if we’re drawn like moths to the flame. Most of the rest of my life is so “sensible shoes” that I’m glad to kick up the heels every once in a while. That’s what growing up is for. So I let my heart flutter and my eyes open a bit wider and my smile grow a bit bigger and let myself be charmed into something a little bit foolish. And if he’s more than that and worth the effort, god be praised. I haven’t found that one in the course of this hobby yet. Lots of fun guys, but not yet The One. But there’s always the hope, and meanwhile a bit of fun. And when needed, the diagnostic and strategic skills honed over a complex lifetime to extricate myself when appropriate. Which you demonstrated so well in your story! Thanks!

Edited October 31, 2018 by BgMstr4u

[Wolfer]

That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. What a weird experience. Very glad you emerged from the situation unharmed and reasonably unscathed.

 

PS: I liked the way you wrote the narrative. Sounded like a short story.

Thanks! Yeah, I wanted to try something different as usually my posts are a sort of bullet point list of stuff that happens. It was such a weird experience. All the time I was thinking "Is this a sitcom? A weird comedy movie?". I would expect to see this in a movie or series but in real life? I was just so dumbfounded (and thinking with my dick) I stayed longer in the situation than I should have. He even tried to make me clean his hotel bathroom!! I felt like "mugging the audience" so much (which is where an actor turns to the audience with a surprised or knowing look, especially in comedy as if to say "Is this for real?").

 

I just LOVE how you describe things …. that was hilarious! If it wasn't so depressing. I am glad you did see him for who he really was and cut him out. Good for you.

Thanks! Yeah, I was laughing and crying at the same time internally when he was douching.

 

It is always gratifying (bordering on faith-in-humanity-restoring) to read the well-thought, artfully-crafted constructive commentary that is offered up when Forum members share experiences like this. The enormity of hearts and minds is overwhelming. Simply overwhelming.

I know, right?

 

Thanks @Wolfer I’ve had a similar experience, or three...

 

It’s amazing how easy it is to ignore the warning signs and think maybe this time/this guy is different.

 

They never are

True. It's so easy (and tempting) to confuse real interest with someone just wanting something from you. Of course, I was no innocent in the situation, the fact that he was hot and I thought he was attracted to me made me want to have more time/sex/cuddles with him. So I wanted to get something too.

[rvwnsd]

Clean the bathroom? You could have offered to hose it down with your piss and use his hair to mop it up.