straight acting

[Guest PWIT]

picking up on comments in a current thread in this forum, what are alternative phrases for 'straight acting'? You see str8 acting in many profiles and we all know what it means. I'm sure there have been discussions on this topic before, but nothing comes to mind that has stuck or could be seen as a replacement for the term.

 

To sum up, is there an alternative phrase straight acting? Humorous suggestions welcome too - I think we could always use more levity here.

[Rick Munroe]

I know this is a stretch and I'm really going out on a limb here, but how about..."masculine"?

[Lankypeters]

>

>what are alternative phrases for 'straight acting'?

>

>

 

"Homophobic"

 

Lankypeters

[Guest PWIT]

>I know this is a stretch and I'm really going out on a limb

>here, but how about..."masculine"?

>

yeah...I always thought they were the same, but look at the definition below and couldn't that apply to non-staight acting as well?

 

mas·cu·line (măs'kyə-lĭn) pronunciation

adj.

 

1. Of or relating to men or boys; male.

2. Suggestive or characteristic of a man; mannish. See synonyms at male.

3. Grammar. Relating or belonging to the gender of words or forms that refer chiefly to males or to things grammatically classified as male.

4. Music. Ending on an accented beat: a masculine cadence.

 

n.

 

1. Grammar.

1. The masculine gender.

2. A word or word form of the masculine gender.

2. A male person.

[Guest PWIT]

Straight acting

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Straight acting, a term that comes from gay slang, is used to describe a person who does not exhibit stereotypically gay mannerisms, style of dress, or behavior. The label is used by and reserved almost exclusively for gay men (although it is also used to describe "lipstick lesbians"), but because it invokes a stereotype, its application is often controversial and may cause offense. "Straight acting" is often used in conjunction with "straight looking."

 

As the term "straight acting" is used to refer to gay men who do not fit the stereotype that gay men are effeminate, sissies, or otherwise non-masculine, it is seen to perpetuate that stereotype.

 

The gender role stereotype itself is often criticized. The idea is that a man is no less a man if he does not possess a certain list of attributes -- that masculinity is either a bankrupt concept, or that it is a socially-constructed concept which should be significantly broadened.

 

The association of homosexuality (and heterosexuality) with a certain list of attributes is also criticized. The gay subculture of homomasculinity actually takes the traditionally desirable attributes of masculinity and pairs them with homosexuality. In the contemporary heterosexual cultural phenomenon of metrosexuality, men adopt traditionally feminine attributes, such as devoting considerable attention to personal appearance.

 

Sex advice columnist Dan Savage has noted the popularity of the "straight acting" image in gay personals. He criticizes both the preference itself (noting he does not share it) and the idea that a man seeking a gay relationship through a personals ad is "acting straight". [1]

 

Filmmaker Spencer Windes also explored what the term means and how we define masculinity in his documentary "Straight Acting", which delves into the world of openly gay men who play violent contact sports like rugby and hockey. [2]

[Guest PWIT]

>"Homophobic"

>

LOL...can't wait to see the gay escort add with a self description as "homophobic".

[trilingual]

How about "butch"? ;-)

[Boston Guy]

I know that Rick has a thing about this phrase but I don't. I think it's descriptive in a way that the other suggestions offered so far are not.

 

To me, "butch" reminds me of the YMCA cowboy kind of look (not the mannerism): mustache, flannel shirt, etc. Masculine seems to me a lot like "manly", meaning a man's man.

 

In my mind, "straight-acting" means "void of the stereotypical mannerisms that we might attach to the word 'queeny'." In other words, I can easily imagine a gay, straight-acting guy who is 21 years old, not hairy, not particularly manly and, to me, definitely not butch. It's sort of a long description for what I would think of as a gay "preppy" kind of guy.

 

Going further, some of my friends are "nelly", which means they are not now and never will be "straight-acting", not if they live to be 104. Others are gay and definitely straight-acting. I love them all the same but they act differently.

 

People can feel the term is pejorative if they want but I think that's in the mind of the beholder. There is no getting around the fact that some gay guys are very effeminate and others are "nelly" or "queeny" and that all of them simply aren't "straight-acting".

 

In other words, to me, it's a useful descriptive term.

 

BG

[+ deej]

The article did mention lipstick lesbians.

[Rick Munroe]

>People can feel the term is pejorative if they want but I

>think that's in the mind of the beholder. There is no getting

>around the fact that some gay guys are very effeminate and

>others are "nelly" or "queeny" and that all of them simply

>aren't "straight-acting".

>In other words, to me, it's a useful descriptive term.

 

There are quite a few black males in the U.S. who dropped out of school, have been convicted of crimes and are incarcerated. So, it should also be a useful descriptive term to refer to black males who are educated, law-abiding and not-in-jail as "white-acting." There are lots of Jewish people who are really good at finding & getting bargains when shopping. So, it should be a really useful term to say that someone who finagles a deal is "jewing them down." And, of course, a woman who has a successful career is "acting like a man."

 

But we don't use those expressions because, of course, they are offensive, unfair and rife with prejudice and sexism. And yet, some people just don't see it that way when it comes to LGBT people. For some reason, it's OK to stereotype us (and to stereotype ourselves) and if anybody like me complains, we're just being silly or overly-PC.

 

The thing is, there are gay people in every ethnic group, every income bracket, everywhere. We (gay men) can be masculine or feminine or something in-between. And the same is true for straight men. I know (and see around me) quite a few straight men who are what you'd call "queeny" and I see and know gay men who are macho "regular" guys. I also see/know ultra-fem gay guys and hyper-masculine straight guys. There's nothing wrong with any of them being however they are. But none of them are representative of their sexual orientation. This is 2006, not 1952. I think it's time we stopped pigeon-holing ourselves (there are way better things to do with a hole and besides, who wants feathers up their ass?).

[Boston Guy]

All of the examples you cite refer to things that people choose to do and/or accomplish. None of them refer to mannerisms. We don't refer to people who are good at basketball as "tall-acting" but we do, nonetheless, often describe people by their behavior and mannerisms -- which is what "straight-acting" gets at.

 

You are absolutely correct that gay people span the entire range of human existence. You are further correct in noting that there are many extremely effeminate straight men -- one of the nelliest guys I've met was the father of several kids, a loving husband who liked nothing more than to work on his house and was as straight as anyone could be... except that he was as nelly as they come in his mannerisms. That wasn't good or bad, it was just who he was.

 

Nevertheless, most of us pretty much know what someone means when we describe a guy as 'queeny' or 'nelly'. You or others can attach negative meanings to those words, if you want, but I think they are descriptive in that they describe a kind of behavior most of us understand. Describing the behavior is not the same as assigning positive or negative values to it.

 

I think your head and heart are in exactly the right place: you want to end negative stereotypes. But I'd suggest that banning words is almost exactly the wrong place to start.

 

Some guys ARE nelly. Some guys ARE straight-acting. The goal should be to help people understand that everyone should be accepted for who and what they are, regardless of physical characteristics. Perhaps people should start using "gay-acting" as a positive phrase.

 

But trying to ban "straight-acting" because its use somehow diminishes guys who are not "straight-acting" doesn't seem to me all that sensible.

 

BG

[Rick Munroe]

>All of the examples you cite refer to things that people

>choose to do and/or accomplish. None of them refer to

>mannerisms. We don't refer to people who are good at

>basketball as "tall-acting" but we do, nonetheless, often

>describe people by their behavior and mannerisms -- which is

>what "straight-acting" gets at.

 

That's my point. Straight is a sexual orientation, not a mannerism. Therefore, the accurate definition of a gay man who is "straight-acting" would be one who is in the closet and pretends that he likes to fuck females.

 

>I think your head and heart are in exactly the right place:

>you want to end negative stereotypes. But I'd suggest that

>banning words is almost exactly the wrong place to start.

 

Who said anything about "banning" words? Do we have a ban on the words "chink" and "dago" and "coon" or do we just know that these are words that are inappropriate and hurtful? Just because some Chinese people have no problem with the word "chink" does not mean that we should start using such a word. And saying that "straight-acting" is acceptable, merely because "we all know what it means," doesn't make it any more right. And I disagree with those who say you can't compare racism to homophobia because bigotry is bigotry.

 

>But trying to ban "straight-acting" because its use somehow

>diminishes guys who are not "straight-acting" doesn't seem to

>me all that sensible.

 

I never said it diminishes effeminate guys. It's just incorrect, because all straight men, as you yourself agree, are not masculine. It's just not an accurate or correct term, and it turns us all into one big stereotype.

[VaHawk]

Me, I prefer the term "pretzel", for those guys: straight in public, but twisted in private.

[VaHawk]

>Describing the behavior is

>not the same as assigning positive or negative values to it.

 

Really, all I've seen in the discussions on this thread and others is to do just that, "assign" negative values to "nellie acting queens", just as you, yourself have done!

 

>But I'd suggest that

>banning words is almost exactly the wrong place to start.

 

A start ANYWHERE would be GOOD, as at least it would be a START! Excusing/accepting such terms, would be standing still, and thus accomplish nothing!

 

I disagree, as the banning of the words "####", "negro" and "colored" as acceptable, has made a big difference, at least imo!

 

 

>Some guys ARE nelly. Some guys ARE straight-acting.

 

And some people ARE incapable of dealing with life, without using labels, which they USE to BRAND people. People are NOT cattle, and as such don't and shouldn't be BRANDED with LABELS!!!!!!

 

How about people growing up, and not acting like some junior high schooler who just HAS to use a LABEL to be comfortable when dealing with others????

[Juan Vancouver]

Beautifully written Rick.

 

Juan

[+ ArVaGuy]

To me, "Straight-acting gay male" is an oxymoron.

[IceFireWizard]

>Straight acting ... is used to describe a person who does not exhibit

>stereotypically gay mannerisms, style of dress, or behavior.

 

To me, straight acting is someone who doesn't act or look like Rick Munroe.

[RockHard]

RE: Stereotyping

 

As I wrote on the Kevin Aviance thread:

"A good deal of stereotyping is benign."

 

Personally, my love affair with words and writing precludes me from being hyper-reactionary. I only turn militant (into a Word-Raider) when I feel someone has seriously crossed a line and looking for blood.

 

It seems whenever someone tries to make the world a better place (at least by their definition of "better"), someone else gets offended and one more aspect of freedom and free speech are threatened. I'm not suggesting we give a free pass to ugly people bent on doing harm, but there is a balanced way to educate and inform and then there's some other way.

 

Stereotyping is a part of human nature. It's like body odor: it's always present in some form or another, whether you like it or not. There's no controlling how someone else smells. In a free speech society, people are free to smell however they want; their expression is free, even at the expense of offending someone else.

 

Humans like to categorize in simple terms to make things easy. And many people stereotype without ever realizing they're doing so. They mean no "real" harm.

 

I don't have a problem with altruists: I may have been one, once. But altruism is someone's fantasy, it's not reality.

 

What I dislike much more than stereotyping is hypocrisy. A man who doesn't practice what he preaches is a man with NO credibility.

 

Rick's hyper-ventilated opinion on stereotyping comes up empty after you read his "anti-straight-women-invading-Chelsea" quote I posted on the Aviance thread. I'm sure many gay men here aren't bothered by that because they may approve of stereotyping "straight" women, too. I refuse to take any hypocrite seriously.

[+ Tom Isern]

RE: Stereotyping

 

ROCKHEAD: "Personally, my love affair with words and writing precludes me from being hyper-reactionary..." Jesus, what a fucking hypocrite. Is there ANYONE else on this board so out of touch with herself?

[+ Tom Isern]

On the issue at hand, I have to agree with Rick. Quoting from Jose Munoz in "Disidentifications":

 

"Masculinity has been and continues to be a normative rubric that has policed the sex/gender system. I see very little advantage in recuperating the term masculinity because, as a category, masculinity has normalized heterosexual and masculinist privilege. Masculinity is, among other things, a cultural imperative to enforce a mode of 'manliness' that is calibrated to shut down queer possibilities and energies. The social construct of masculinity is experienced by far too many men as a regime of power that labors to invalidate, exclude, and extinguish faggotry, effeminacy, and queerly coated butchness. This is not to discount the possibility that a discourse on masculinity might produce some theoretical traction for scholars working in the field of gender theory. But I do aim to suggest that any such project that fails to factor in and interrogate heteronomativity and masculinist contours of such a discourse reproduces the phobic ideology of masculinity."

 

************

 

Those who use phrases like "straight-acting" are, in my experience, not just using them as neutral descriptive markers, if that is even possible. Rather, they use them to evaluate themselves and their potential sexual partners in a way that always preferences the "straight" part of the binary straight/gay. There is never any question that "gay-acting" is the positive side of the equation. When gay men speak this way, it seems clear that what is invoked is their own internalized homophobia and some deep wish that they were actually straight because "straight" is better.

[RockHard]

RE: Stereotyping

 

I know exactly where to touch myself and I expect such hissy-fit, floor-stomping from you, dupe. Tell me, what does Jesus have to do with my being a "fucking hypocrite," you utterly disrespectful fool? As far as I'm concerned, you have no credibility either but, of course, you're free to foam at the mouth and personify OFFENSIVE.

 

A reasoned debate/discussion is NOT hyper-reactionary but you're also free to provide examples of when I've crossed the line. Good luck with that. (I offer you a freebie above, dear.)

[RockHard]

Tom and Rick, sitting in a tree...

 

I told Rick his blather reminded me of Tom Isern. WHAT A TURN-OFF! :-(

[+ Charlie]

The more important word here, of course, is "acting", as in pretending to be someone else.

[Guest DickHo]

In my experience, most folks calling themselves straight-acting or straight looking are not either.

[Quincy]

Whatever happened to 'macho' or am I dating myself?