When is it right to hire an escort?

[Boston Guy]

Samai139 recently started a thread entitled "The Advocate". The discussion interested me and got me to thinking about the ethics of escorting and hiring escorts. Samai139, Lucky, Lookin and BidD all made interesting, thought-provoking contributions.

 

I have very mixed feelings about the ethics of escorting and hiring escorts. I purposely use the term "ethics" -- the study of what's right and wrong or good and bad based on reason -- instead of "morality", which is commonly taken as meaning what is right and wrong or good and bad based on social or religious conventions.

 

Morality is a hopeless quicksand here, I think, especially if one is to include religious considerations. Forgetting escorting for a moment, many of us who are out would have serious disagreements with many of our straight contemporaries regarding the morality of many simpler gay issues. But that doesn't mean that we can't try to look at escorting from a more objective -- i.e., ethical -- point of view.

 

So here are some questions. Feel free to answer one or a few or all of them.

 

1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an escort?

 

2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to how one might act in his presence)?

 

3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to make some money and he wants to help pay for his college tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire escorts?

 

4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old. She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is there a difference between male and female escorts or the hiring of either?

 

5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only, what should your reaction be?

 

6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21. Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the encounter, including any concern about the effects that having sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

 

7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

 

8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration involved in formulating your answer?

 

9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration here?

 

10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65, overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations facing the two clients the same?

 

11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of the local law?

 

 

BG

[Guest CTguy]

>1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an

>escort?

>

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

>

>3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He

>confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to

>make some money and he wants to help pay for his college

>tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise

>him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to

>escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire

>escorts?

>

>4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old.

>She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice

>be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is

>there a difference between male and female escorts or the

>hiring of either?

>

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of

>stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some

>money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only,

>what should your reaction be?

>

>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21.

> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>encounter, including any concern about the effects that having

>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

>

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

>

>8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since

>his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he

>wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should

>start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration

>involved in formulating your answer?

>

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

>

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and

>looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine

>cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations

>facing the two clients the same?

>

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

>

>

>BG

 

 

 

I feel like I'm back at school taking an exam :-) but here goes:

 

1. Yes, if you are in a monogamous relationship with someone. I would consider hiring an escort cheating on your partner.

 

2. I'm not sure I understand this question x(

 

3. This I found to be the most difficult question. I would advise him not to escort. Escorting is not the most socially acceptable profession and I would not want him to have to deal with the potential social stigma, it could potentially be dangerous and I would be concerned for his safety. I don't think this affects my hiring of escorts because I think from a client perspective there is less risk or different types of risk involved.

 

4. See answer to #3 above. And No, I don't see any difference the hiring of female or male escorts.

 

5. I would support him in the decision but I would also try to convince him that he shouldn't stop seeing me }( If he called me 3 months later I would hire him.

 

6. If I knew he wasn't attracted to me I probably wouldn't hire him again. If you are an escort you are going to have sex with older guys you are not attracted to, if that affects you in a negative way you shouldn't be escorting.

 

7. If I felt my business colleagues think of escorting as wrong then I wouldn't tell them. Hiring escorts is a personal decision and really nobody's business except you and the escort. If they are just my "business" colleagues I would not discuss escorting with them.

 

8. I would tell him to go ahead and hire and have fun. Just make sure you read hooboys reviews first and and don't always think with you little head. :-)

 

9. Yes I would definately warn them. If I could help prevent them from getting arrested because they hired an escort (which I think should be legal) then I would tell them to be careful.

 

10. I don't see any difference in the ethical considerations. Both guys have decided to have a good time with an escort. Although I would ask the 28 year old why is he hiring when he probably can have a good time for free.

 

11. I don't see anything wrong with hiring as escort. I don't agree with the law saying that it shouldn't be done.

 

Hope I passed the test

[JT Brooklyn]

IMHO..It would take less time to just Hookup with a Guy for an HOUR, than answer all these questions!

 

Anyone who has all these "Questions" Floating around in his head, has No Time for Sexual Pleasure and probably Hires Rarely! IMHO of course. LOL :P

[Boston Guy]

Dick: Thanks for being the brave soul who took the first try!

 

>I feel like I'm back at school taking an exam :-)

 

LOL

 

 

> but here goes:

>

>1. Yes, if you are in a monogamous relationship with someone.

> I would consider hiring an escort cheating on your partner.

>

>2. I'm not sure I understand this question x(

 

Sorry: Basically, I was trying to ask if the fact that someone has already decided to escort means the client doesn't have to worry about any ethical obligations to the escort.

 

>

>3. This I found to be the most difficult question. I would

>advise him not to escort. Escorting is not the most socially

>acceptable profession and I would not want him to have to deal

>with the potential social stigma, it could potentially be

>dangerous and I would be concerned for his safety. I don't

>think this affects my hiring of escorts because I think from a

>client perspective there is less risk or different types of

>risk involved.

>

 

 

I think this is the most difficult one for me, too, because it clearly raises the question between our advice to a loved one and our own behavior. I don't think that necessarily implies any particular answer but it does raise a good question.

 

>Hope I passed the test

 

You passed! :-) Actually, there are no wrong answers to any of the questions. Instead, I was hoping at least a couple of the questions (I didn't know which ones) might help initiate a discussion on one or more of the ethical questions that surround the whole concept of escorting and hiring escorts.

 

Thanks again,

BG

[Boston Guy]

Oh good lord, JT! :-) Thinking isn't the antithesis of action. And we don't discuss ethics here very often, especially the ethics behind what we're all talking about. Sometimes, it could be thought of as the elephant in the room.

 

There are some really bright guys hanging around here, many of whom have been hiring escorts for a long time. I'd love to hear their perspectives on some of these different aspects of the ethics of escorting/hiring. I'd also love to hear how the escorts view these issue and see if there's a difference between the client and escort perspectives.

 

BG

[Samai139]

1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an escort?

Yes, if you are suffering from an STD. If hiring an escort stops you from meeting your financial obligations---paying a mortgage, a car payment, child support, etc. If after hiring the escort you are overcome with guilt and regret.

 

2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to how one might act in his presence)?

Yes with reservations. Is this action any different really than buying a "rip-off" watch, cd, dvd, from a street vendor? I know I'm being a hypocrite, but I would NOT buy the phony article, but I would hire the escort.

 

3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to make some money and he wants to help pay for his college tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire escorts?

I would definitely advise him NOT to escort and to help him stay away from escorting, I'd offer to help with the tuition, I'm speaking from my own financial situation, of course. I would still continue to hire escorts. In fact I've encouraged several young men I have known to get out of the sex trade and I'm happy to report that at least four of them have. In Montreal, I realise dancers are not exactly escorts, but many engage in various acts for money and I'm always happy when a favourite dancer "works his way out of stripping."

 

4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old. She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is there a difference between male and female escorts or the hiring of either?

Yes, and no. Same advice, but I believe there is a difference between male and female escorts---the social sanctions are nearly the same but male escorts might receive even more severe condemnation from the general public---except in some ethnic communities.

 

5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only, what should your reaction be?

Definitely encourage him to stop and support him in that decision. And NOT hire him again, but offer a loan/financial support if he is in need---I know, I know, I'm a easy mark in many ways )

 

6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21. Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the encounter, including any concern about the effects that having sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

I suspect there are very very few instances when a 21 year old is attracted to a 65 year old, so obviously I would have no problem with how he has to deal with the effects of the encounter. If he has selected the escort option, he knows he will get the "good, the bad and the ugly." Wouldn't he have the same difficulty/emotions/struggles with a physically repusive 22 year old? Or a 30 year old physically fit man who has awful hygiene?

 

7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

No I would not admit the hirings. Is it hypocrisy? Only if I rant and rave in the business setting how immoral and/or unethical hiring of escorts is. If you hire escorts and condemn the practice of escorting, then you are a hypocrite.

 

8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration involved in formulating your answer?

Definitely. Looking for "love" or a "relationship" with an escort is a disaster waiting to happen. If he simply wants a sexual outlet, that's one matter; or if he simply needs to prove that he can perform with a hunky escort, fine. BUT the limits of where these encounters can go should definitely be pointed out to him---if he wants your advice.

 

9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration here?

Yes, I consider myself a law-abiding citizen. And yes I would warn escorts and clients and no I don't consider there is any ethical consideration in my actions. After all, the police/authorities have decided they can lie, and entrap to do their jobs, the least I can do is to reveal what their actions are. If I see a State Trooper hiding in an inconspicuous spot on the road, I'll do my best to warn oncoming drivers, without causing myself any problems. Please don't tell me however that I'm comparing hiring of escorts with speeding---this is an ethical musing---I'm not sure that ethics can always be absolutely this or that, acceptable or unacceptable.

 

10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65, overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations facing the two clients the same?

Of course. If the same two guys go into a Lexus dealer and buy exactly the same car, aren't they expecting to be charged the same price? Not exactly the same, but hey, your are buying a product and the decision to buy is where the ethics kick in, not the age of the buyer.

11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of the local law?

This is the MOST difficult question to answer. I think the best answer I can give is this: I would have to balance the danger of getting caught with the reward of the hiring of the escort. Having said that, I realise that I am avoiding the ethical question---I am looking "outside" of my own ethical structure for answers. If I were truly an ethical person, I guess I would do one of two things: 1. Hire and damn the consequences 2. Never hire an escort.

 

BG---thanks for the questions---I don't think I'm any clearer on the questions I had when I first read the article in The Advocate, but I've reflected a lot on my actions and that helps

[Boston Guy]

Samia:

 

Very interesting answers! Thanks! A few notes:

 

 

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

> Yes with reservations. Is this action any different really

>than buying a "rip-off" watch, cd, dvd, from a street vendor?

>I know I'm being a hypocrite, but I would NOT buy the phony

>article, but I would hire the escort.

>

 

 

This is not a comparison that would have occurred to me. I'll have to think it through.

 

 

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of stopping?

>If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some money and

>says he is thinking of escorting for a week only, what should

>your reaction be?

> Definitely encourage him to stop and support him in that

>decision. And NOT hire him again, but offer a loan/financial

>support if he is in need---I know, I know, I'm a easy mark in

>many ways )

>

 

Even more after they read your answers in this question. :-) :-)

 

 

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that you

>hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical hypocrisy

>-- or simply good judgment?

> No I would not admit the hirings. Is it hypocrisy? Only if

>I rant and rave in the business setting how immoral and/or

>unethical hiring of escorts is. If you hire escorts and

>condemn the practice of escorting, then you are a hypocrite.

>

 

Interesting. It brings up thoughts of gay politicians who condemn gays publicly and then go out and hire escorts.

 

 

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

> Yes, I consider myself a law-abiding citizen. And yes I

>would warn escorts and clients and no I don't consider there

>is any ethical consideration in my actions. After all, the

>police/authorities have decided they can lie, and entrap to do

>their jobs, the least I can do is to reveal what their actions

>are. If I see a State Trooper hiding in an inconspicuous spot

>on the road, I'll do my best to warn oncoming drivers,

>without causing myself any problems. Please don't tell me

>however that I'm comparing hiring of escorts with

>speeding---this is an ethical musing---I'm not sure that

>ethics can always be absolutely this or that, acceptable or

>unacceptable.

>

 

Very interesting. This is the EXACT analogy I thought of when I first thought of the question. And, yes, when I'm on the highway, I do warn oncoming drivers when I can. And, yes, I do drive fast. :-)

 

 

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and looks

>like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine cover. They

>pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations facing the

>two clients the same?

> Of course. If the same two guys go into a Lexus dealer and

>buy exactly the same car, aren't they expecting to be charged

>the same price? Not exactly the same, but hey, your are

>buying a product and the decision to buy is where the ethics

>kick in, not the age of the buyer.

 

I was wondering if presenting the escort with a client the escort would gladly sleep with without charge removed the ethical considerations surrounding getting a young man to sleep with someone that he'd rather not be with in other circumstances.

 

 

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

> This is the MOST difficult question to answer. I think the

>best answer I can give is this: I would have to balance the

>danger of getting caught with the reward of the hiring of the

>escort. Having said that, I realise that I am avoiding the

>ethical question---I am looking "outside" of my own ethical

>structure for answers. If I were truly an ethical person, I

>guess I would do one of two things: 1. Hire and damn the

>consequences 2. Never hire an escort.

>

 

Interesting that there's a difference in which question is seen as the most difficult. I think we want to be seen, at least by ourselves, as law-abiding but have to reconcile that with engaging in something that is against the law. In some ways, it's the same kind of mentality at work when we think about breaking the speed limit.

 

Thanks for responding,

BG

[+ Charlie]

BG, nice distinction between moral and ethical, but I think you have shortchanged a third consideration, which is the practical. I can't imagine what moral or ethical reasons would impact my decision to speak about my escort hiring to a business colleague, but there would be good practical reasons for not doing so. The practical concern would also influence advice I might give to my nephew or niece about becoming an escort, regardless of how I felt about their choice on moral or ethical grounds. In that regard, my advice to my niece would be somewhat different, because I think women are still more vulnerable to exploitation than men in our society.

 

Most of us are relatively, not absolutely, law-abiding, particularly if we believe that a specific law is trivial, unfair, or arbitrarily enforced. The example you give is interesting, because I suspect most of us find stings repugnant, unless they are the only way to catch someone who is breaking a law that we think is extremely important to uphold. Whether I would intervene to warn the escorts or clients would probably depend on the practical: how easy would it be to warn them, and what legal consequences might I experience myself as a result? If I were personally acquainted with an escort or client who might be caught, I would almost certainly warn him privately, although the level of illegality in my act is no different than warning anonymous strangers.

 

In fact, no matter how analytical we are about this subject, the personal element will always affect our actual behavior. How I felt about a particular escort would probably influence the advice I gave him, and the way I would feel about my own interactions with him. If the 21 year old seemed to be intelligent, emotionally grounded and fully aware of what he was doing and why, I would feel no responsibility for the effect on him of having sex with men he is not attracted to; on the other hand, if he seemed immature and emotionally vulnerable, I would be concerned and would probably treat him differently.

 

Unless you are playing around with ideas for a final exam in an ethics course, I think you have too much time on your hands--and I know I have too much time on my hands, because I'm sitting here writing this.

[Boston Guy]

Charlie,

 

Thanks for responding; I was really hoping you would, for many of the same reasons that I wish that Will would come back briefly and add his thoughts.

 

 

>BG, nice distinction between moral and ethical, but I think

>you have shortchanged a third consideration, which is the

>practical. I can't imagine what moral or ethical reasons would

>impact my decision to speak about my escort hiring to a

>business colleague, but there would be good practical reasons

>for not doing so.

 

The original reason I posed that question was to ask if we have what might be location-based ways of viewing escorting. In other words, in one location -- in this case, work -- do we view it or convey a view of it that is different the one we hold or convey in a different location. You focus on the practical in your response, which is surely sensible. Samai suggests that silence is ok but condemning escorting at business would at least be hypocritical, if not unethical. I do think you are right in that there isn't a large ethical component to this question.

 

 

>Most of us are relatively, not absolutely, law-abiding,

>particularly if we believe that a specific law is trivial,

>unfair, or arbitrarily enforced. The example you give is

>interesting, because I suspect most of us find stings

>repugnant, unless they are the only way to catch someone who

>is breaking a law that we think is extremely important to

>uphold. Whether I would intervene to warn the escorts or

>clients would probably depend on the practical: how easy would

>it be to warn them, and what legal consequences might I

>experience myself as a result? If I were personally acquainted

>with an escort or client who might be caught, I would almost

>certainly warn him privately, although the level of illegality

>in my act is no different than warning anonymous strangers.

>

 

So you would then see the hiring of an escort itself as an act that falls into a category similar to speeding? By this I mean a law that we choose to disregard because it's trivial or unfair or arbitrarily enforced? If yes, I think I agree with you, although I think that there is considerably more trepidation on the part of most clients regarding getting caught with an escort vs. getting caught speeding.

 

I would posit that most of us would consider the breaking of a law that causes serious harm to another or the property of another to be a fairly serious wrong. Murder, for example, is generally considered to be a serious wrong and something that is obviously unethical. When we consider it, we probably think that speeding is harmless (okay, I know it isn't and I still speed) or that we can control it to such a degree that it becomes harmless. So breaking that law falls into your "trivial" category, perhaps.

 

But where, then, does hiring an escort fall? Do we rationalize that there is no harm to the escort and so the act becomes akin to speeding? Or do we believe that there is no harm or, even further, believe that we are aiding someone else while at the same time enjoying ourselves?

 

If there is, in fact, no harm in the act -- something many people would not agree with -- or if aid is being rendered to someone in need of funds, does it then become ethical to break the law? And how does that relate to our obligation as citizens to speak out or act for the repeal of laws that we believe are unfair? Do we, by breaking this law, grant others the right to break whatever laws they wish to break?

 

 

>In fact, no matter how analytical we are about this subject,

>the personal element will always affect our actual behavior.

>How I felt about a particular escort would probably influence

>the advice I gave him, and the way I would feel about my own

>interactions with him. If the 21 year old seemed to be

>intelligent, emotionally grounded and fully aware of what he

>was doing and why, I would feel no responsibility for the

>effect on him of having sex with men he is not attracted to;

>on the other hand, if he seemed immature and emotionally

>vulnerable, I would be concerned and would probably treat him

>differently.

>

 

Yes, I think I agree with all of that.

 

 

>Unless you are playing around with ideas for a final exam in

>an ethics course, I think you have too much time on your

>hands--and I know I have too much time on my hands, because

>I'm sitting here writing this.

 

Yes, you're probably right. :-) No, I'm not preparing a final; teaching is behind me now. And I hire escorts frequently and happily. But the original question posted by Samai got me to thinking about the ethical underpinnings of this activity and I became interested in how others saw it.

 

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

 

BG

[+ Lucky]

To me, escorting is a perfectly respectable profession and that would color all of my responses to BG's quiz. I do recognize that it has social stigmas in many groups. Women are usually looked down on for doing it; yet gay men often put escorts on a pedestal...they are considered gods!

 

Even given my acceptance of the profession, I recognize that younger guys could easily be led astray by all of the attention and the money. I am not in to twinks as a general rule, so I don't often have to consider the implications of a less than stable life being impacted by these factors. Drugs are often a problem with escorts since they are so readily available, popular in the gay community, and often offered to the escort by the client, so I hear. (That's another topic!) TO know that you are furthering someone's downward spiral would stop me from hiring him.

 

As for the law, well, the president doesn't seem to feel so obligated to follow the letter of the law, so I will take his example.

 

Finally, Boston Guy has taken the time to posit some thoughtful questions to enhance the discussion here on the boards. Anyone is free to take it or leave it, but I commend him for it. We need more of it. And, Charlie, mi amigo, why do you suggest that his effort means he has too much time on his hands? Some people like to do crossword puzzles, some play tennis or golf, some enjoy bantering here on the message center. Why is one pastime better than the other?

[Epigonos]

Lucky we are in agreement. I am also not into twinks so my advise to my nephew would be as follows. I would suggest that he finish his education (I would help with cost if needed), get a regular job, and work for a couple of years. If after that period of time he was still interested in escorting I would tell him to go for it. Most of the guys I hire are in their late twenties or thirties and have had other successfull careers. I fear that too many young guys without any real education or skills become escorts for want of anything better. If that is indeed the case I feel they are on a near sure road to trouble. Same advise would go for my niece.

At 65 I am fully aware that guys aren't jumping into the sack with me because of my gorgeous face and fabulous body frankly that is why I hire escorts. As long as the escort is fully informed about my circumstances I don't see a problem.

I would probably NOT volunteer to a co-worker the fact that I hire escorts I see no point in doing so. I would, however NEVER deny the fact that I do so if somehow he or she found out and confronted me.

You bet I would inform the escorts about the impending sting. I have a real problem with "most" stings especially in this area.

I have no problem with the legality of escorting. We all pick and choose the laws we follow. Many of us willfully violate traffic laws and cheat on taxes. I personally consider the fact that escorting is illegal B.S. and am willing to accept the responsibility for my actions in breaking that law.

[Guest]

>1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an

>escort?

>

When the escort's a minor would be one example.

 

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

>

I don't see any ethical considerations here.

 

>3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He

>confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to

>make some money and he wants to help pay for his college

>tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise

>him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to

>escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire

>escorts?

>

There are a lot of jobs I would discourage a nephew from pursuing, for a variety of reasons. Nothing unique about escorting.

 

>4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old.

>She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice

>be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is

>there a difference between male and female escorts or the

>hiring of either?

>

Same answer.

 

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of

>stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some

>money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only,

>what should your reaction be?

>

It's not my position to encourage or discourage. The most I might do is ask if he'll continue letting former clients hire him, and I might let him know to feel free to inform me if he changes his mind.

 

>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21.

> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>encounter, including any concern about the effects that having

>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

>

He's an adult. Most people have to do things for their job that they don't like.

 

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

>

Obviously the latter. My business colleagues are not interested in hearing the details of my sex life, nor I theirs. In fact, doing so might be construed as sexual harassment. Such discussions are not appropriate in the business environment.

 

>8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since

>his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he

>wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should

>start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration

>involved in formulating your answer?

>

I would say go for it.

 

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

>

Yes. The consideration is to protect people from government stupidity.

 

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and

>looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine

>cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations

>facing the two clients the same?

>

Everybody has to take the good and the bad in his job. As a doctor, I've always mused with the idea of charging patients who don't follow intructions extra, but not seriously. Pleasant and unpleasant patients are charged and treated the same.

 

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

>

I obey laws for one of two reasons: (1) because the law agrees with my moral principles, or (2) because I'm unwilling to face the consequences if I get caught breaking the law. I don't think it's unethical to break the law per se.

[Lookin]

Boston Guy, I didn’t think I’d be posting on the “big issues” on a message board again, but these are relevant to me, and you’ve put them in bite-size pieces, so it’s hard to resist. My ethics are pretty simple and are not much more than the Golden Rule: I try not to hurt anyone by my actions, and I try to help others when I can. It took me a while to get there, and it’s working pretty well in my life. I’m not, however, suggesting that it will work for everyone else. I won’t add “in my humble opinion” to every statement, but you can assume it’s there in every case. That said, here goes:

 

 

1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an escort?

 

-If the balance of power is out of whack, I think it’s wrong. If you or the escort see the other person as someone to exploit, it’s wrong and harmful. If you’re in it as equals (consensual role playing excepted), I don’t consider it wrong.

 

 

2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to how one might act in his presence)?

 

-With the same caveat as in question 1, my ethics wouldn’t get in the way.

 

 

3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to make some money and he wants to help pay for his college tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire escorts?

 

-I’d make sure he was aware of the practical and emotional repercussions of possibly hurting his parents, getting busted, equating sex with money rather than love, having to keep part of his life secret, and the risk of STD’s. I’d encourage him to look at other options, but I wouldn’t judge him and would continue to support him if he went ahead with it.

 

 

4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old. She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is there a difference between male and female escorts or the hiring of either?

 

-Same thing, from an ethical standpoint. From a practical standpoint, society may judge her more harshly than a male. It would be pretty much the same conversation I’d have with my nephew.

 

 

5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only, what should your reaction be?

 

-If he has options that he feels are better for him than escorting, I’d support him. If he wants to do a “final farewell tour” three months later, I’d probably hire him. If it seems that he’s got emotional problems or financial problems that are forcing him to do something he really doesn’t want to do, I wouldn’t hire him; although I would offer him emotional support if he wanted it, and maybe a one-time bridge loan.

 

 

6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21. Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the encounter, including any concern about the effects that having sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

 

-If an escort made it plain he was not attracted to me, I wouldn’t hire him - not because of my ethics, but because the sexual energy would be gone for me. I’m not expecting an escort to be chasing me around the room with fire in his eyes; but I figure what nature has left me with, plus $200, should help to even up the scales. If having sex with me has damaging effects on the guy, I would be concerned, of course. While I think he should be the one responsible for being aware of it and taking the appropriate action, I would also bring it up if I were aware of it. If it turns out he’s trapped and hates the sex but needs the money, I’d try to help him find a way out; but as a fellow human being, rather than as a client.

 

 

7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

 

-No. It’s not an ethical issue for me. It’s just that most of the adults I know don’t discuss their sex lives with casual acquaintances or professional colleagues. My coworkers have never buttonholed me to tell me what they did in bed the night before, and I’ve always returned the favor.

 

 

8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration involved in formulating your answer?

 

-No. As his friend, I’d tell him the odds are against finding love or a lasting relationship with an escort, and encourage him to look other places. If he wanted to enjoy an escort in the meantime, I’d help him get off on the right foot, so to speak.

 

 

9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration here?

 

-For the most part, yes, I’m a law-abiding citizen. In my opinion, laws are supposed to reflect the moral values of the society to which they apply. In general, I buy into the moral values of society, and following these laws is a no-brainer. But sometimes laws can be out of step with the morals of large segments of society; most of us agree that adults should have access to medical marijuana, but there’s a federal law against it. And sometimes my ethics don’t lead me to the same moral judgments that society has turned into laws; prostitution and gay marriage are issues on which U.S. society and I have come out in different places. Furthermore, morals and laws change over time, and from country to country. I try to add my voice to the debate over changing laws that are at odds with my ethics and, from time to time, become a scofflaw. I’d have no ethical concern with helping take the bite out of an escort sting.

 

 

10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65, overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations facing the two clients the same?

 

-There’s nothing in the situation itself that affects the ethics, in my opinion. However, two men, with different life experiences, may bring two different sets of ethics to the same situation.

 

 

11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of the local law?

 

-Again, my ethics lead me to do no harm to another person, and to help other people if I can. If my interaction with an escort is consistent with those personal rules, I don’t have an ethical issue with hiring him. If I do end up disobeying the law, and get caught at it, I am willing to accept responsibility and take my lumps.

 

 

Boston Guy, as I’ve worked through this very thoughtful questionnaire on ethics, I come back to the same place I came to in the Advocate thread about the ex-escort who lost a primary. I don’t see an ethical problem with being or hiring an escort, as long as neither party seeks to exploit and harm the other. Many of the problems for escorts and clients seem to arise, in my opinion, as a result of society’s reaction to the practice of escorting. Dallas voters seemed to feel that escorting per se disqualified a man from holding public office. If he had campaigned in a society where escorting was seen as a way to keep the population in check, enhance social skills, give the old folks something to do, and put some extra cash into the economy, he might be in office today.

 

I hope that one day, through many small discussions like these, we might bring more reason into the moral and ethical debate, and move society toward a closer friendship with the Golden Rule. That’s why it’s worth the time for me to participate in the discussion, and I thank you and the other posters for getting it going.

 

 

PS: Before writing my response, I wanted to make sure I was clear on the difference between ethics and morals. I was surprised to find, in a Google search of “ethics vs. morals”, that there are many opinions on the difference between the two. No wonder it can be confusing!

[+ Tom Isern]

JT Brooklyn says that anyone who has these questions floating around has no room for pleasure. I can see why he says so. But maybe it is only when these kinds of questions have been worked through that one can be genuinely open, without guilt or shame, to pleasure—probably easier for some than others.

 

I appreciate the distinction you make, Boston Guy, between ethics and morality—I suspect you are right. I’d add that morality is not just about religion, it is about any definition of the human. Whenever one starts with what the French philosopher Michel Foucault disparagingly labels “metaphysical presumptions,” one charts the realm of morality (even though Foucault, oddly enough, uses the two words interchangeably). Ethics, unlike morality, doesn’t start with a definition of what is “natural” or “human” and is therefore a freer and more honest (my bias) space in which to discuss these issues. While ethics can be troubled by notions of the normal, I believe its strength is that it tends to resist conflating the legal, the “normal,” the “natural,” and/or the “human.” So, to the questions!

 

1. I would posit that the only time it is clearly wrong to hire an escort is when doing so is going to harm you, the escort, or another person. How to define harm gets tricky. For instance, is cheating on a partner harmful? I don’t think it always is. Our social codes don’t make room for bisexuality, to give an example. My married clients say that they go home more loving and devoted partners because they have an occasional outlet. Not every wife may be counted on to “understand.” This may sound like rationalization to some, but as one who has known the closet/prison of a loving but sexless relationship, and the freedom of an open and non-monogamous relationship, I can relate to people having to “negotiate”—even if the negotiating is a monologue. Many urban gay men live in a world that is beyond the assumptions of heterosexual monogamy for precisely these reasons—sex is sex, not love—and keeping the two clear and divided can be important to some. My women friends turn apoplectic when I talk this way, but I always side with the excluded and marginalized over hegemonic and unfair social expectations. Nor do I think honesty and transparency are the same thing, but that leads us down a whole other path…

 

2. If an escort is advertising publicly, he is taking the responsibility for his actions and the consequences. He WANTS you to call him. Behind your question, Boston Guy, seems to be a concern with exploitation. Some escorts are doing this because they have to for the money and that might be a real concern. Most I know are doing it for extra money to put to some constructive use. Some escorts are in the business for drug money. Does a contractual situation ever relieve a person of all ethical considerations? I don’t think so. But as an escort, I’d rather be doing this than be subjected to the forty-plus-hour drudgery of a mindless job with a soulless corporation. I consider myself lucky to have “discovered” escorting. I’m in school building the career I want—that wouldn’t be as easily done if I had to work in a more traditional setting.

 

3. I would encourage a nephew to escort—provided they suggested it first. I wish I’d been so free-thinking when I was twenty—many of those who were now have 5th Avenue penthouse apartments. I’d also stick around to give the nephew advice about the pros, cons, and risks. It’s a decision, once made, that alters one's life—psychologically at a minimum—for good, and anyone entering the business should understand that.

 

4. The risks are MUCH higher for female escorts—there is almost always a sizable power differential. If the young woman has a mature feminist understanding of life and is not looking for a partner/husband to “rescue” her, if she’s is prepared to handle the risks (physical and psychological) and deal with the consequences, I’d tell her to go ahead. These are tougher issues for straight women—social expectations around marriage/family/children don’t mix well with a past or present of escorting. But if she knew what she was getting into and wanted it, I’d tell her to go have fun.

 

5. I like to think that the clients I see regularly are already or will become friends. They are wonderful guys. If I retired, I suspect they’d wish me well in “retirement” and we’d switch to having lunch occasionally. I’d never call my clients and say I need money—rather unprofessional, wouldn’t you say?

 

6. Desire, I believe, is a shape-shifter. The twinks I was attracted to at eighteen I would never want to sleep with today. Having sex for the fun of having sex, outside traditional concern with desire and attraction, can be very liberating. I find it helpful to conceptualize sex work in the space of shared pleasures rather than fulfilled desire—I think it’s a more ethical space. I’m surprised that you didn’t ask more about desire. Is it ethical for an escort to pretend to be attracted to someone, to build him up, to flatter and cajole and fawn, to lead a client to believe one thing when inside they feel quite differently, for the sake of fulfilling a fantasy or for the hope of larger tips and being rehired? Many seem to think that IS an escort’s job. This is, I believe, the most thorny ethical problem. This message board is also an ethically compromising space—clients can say whatever they want, which is good, but escorts are pretty much expected to pose, posture, say pretty things, and sound “warm and hard."

 

7. I admit to my friends, my “partner,” some of my profession acquaintances, and my mother and my family that I escort. My life with them is pretty much an open book. They don’t want to read every chapter; but little is concealed. I would never expect other escorts to be so open. We live in a place and time that does not think clearly or legislate rationally about sexual matters. (Jesus—the fucking Bush administration has a lock-down on condoms in Africa because of its marriage to the Christian right. Sex is SUPPOSED to be inside marriage, you know!) My family, colleagues, and friends are unusually progressive, open-minded, rational, kind, loving, educated, and LIBERAL. THANK GOD! Not everyone is so lucky.

 

8. If a friend told me he was looking for a “relationship” and thought hiring escorts was the answer, I’d tell him he was nuts.

 

9. It has been a long time since I have felt summoned to consider myself a law-abiding citizen. For most of my life, every time I climbed into bed with a partner, I was breaking the law in one way or another. The fireworks my father bought and shot off on July 4th violated the law. I seldom pay attention to speed limits. I cross on red lights—like every genuine New Yorker. Law is nothing but social policy with a policing and disciplinary mechanism attached. Some of the time it reflects only the bigotry and biases of an ignorant and heterosexist majority. Sometimes it is wise and rational. Either way, it has no transcendent status in my life. “Law-abiding” is NOT a compliment and accusing someone of a law-and-order mentality is an insult—at least in my world.

 

10. The issue of physical attraction and its relationship to pay —should an unattractive person pay more? —a super-attractive person less? Is one paying for the “attraction deficit”? I don’t think so. A client is paying for the attention and time of the escort. Does a gynecologist charge attractive women less for his services?

 

11. I believe I answered this in question 9.

 

Damn, you got me going. I’m actually eager to see how others will respond to these questions and hope they do!!

[+ Axiom2001]

Perhaps two different threads could be started in conjunction with this one: the first one would be addressed to escorts in asking what motivated them to begin escorting if they are willing to respond candidly. The second query or thread could be: why do we contact men to have sex with them? (I already know a few of the responses the second query would get!)

 

This thread: "When is it right...?" is a thought-provoking one, I'll readily say! I don't care to address the topic though!

[VaHawk]

Oh, good GOD spare us! Spare us from your incessant need to lecture and judge, rate and rank and file! Go back to work lecturing in the academic world!

 

I agree with JT, and that is no laughing matter, LOL! :7

[+ Charlie]

You're right, Lucky: my moralistic response to how we choose to spend our recreational time was inappropriate.

[+ Charlie]

BG, I don't think that laws against speeding and hiring an escort are similar: the law against speeding is based on sensible, practical knowledge (including statistics) about the potential for harm not only to innocent bystanders but also to oneself. The law against hiring an escort is based on cultural values which are not universally shared--yes, some will argue that sex outside marriage, or without love, is harmful to the individuals involved, but I don't buy it. A few men may ruin their health and/or emotional stability through intercourse with escorts, but more will do so by overindulging in junk food, and I don't think that is reason enough to close McDonalds. Arguments for legislation based on potential but unpredictable and unmeasurable effects are not very convincing to me, or to most rational people. Most acts we engage in with other people have the potential for some sort of future harm, whether it's yelling at the driver who cuts in front of you, or telling your kid that he'll go blind if he masturbates, but we can't be sure whether the driver will feel ashamed or go home and hit his wife, or if the kid will ignore the warning or develop psychosomatic symptoms. If I worried about the effect I might have on everyone I hired, from escorts to electricians, I would be unable to function.

 

I will grant you that choosing which laws we, as individuals, believe deserve to be obeyed can be a slippery slope, but that is not enough reason to rigidly observe any law that is on the books, regardless of how illogical it appears. In fact, some of us might feel as strong a moral imperative to break a certain law as others feel to enforce it. Even when confronted with a law I believe in, like speed limits, I try to use common sense: if the limit is 55, but road conditions are good and most traffic is going 65, I will, too, because driving at the legal speed might actually create more of a hazard than speeding. If police are arresting escorts and clients in a particular city, I won't hire there, not because I believe the law is right, but because I don't want to be arrested, although I still might publicly protest against the arrests of others. But I don't feel that I have any right to tell the escorts and clients in that city what they should do about it.

[Boston Guy]

Lucky and Charlie,

 

Lucky, thanks for the vote of support and the kind sentiments. Charlie, I appreciate your statement but it wasn't necessary. You're one of the good guys and I didn't take your earlier remark seriously. :-) Actually, it was pretty funny and probably a well-deserved comment on the length of my "quiz". :-)

 

Besides, I'm happy. If I didn't like the things I do, I'd do other things. Pretty simple, really.

 

Regards to you both,

BG

[Boston Guy]

> Arguments for legislation based on potential but

>unpredictable and unmeasurable effects are not very convincing

>to me, or to most rational people. Most acts we engage in with

>other people have the potential for some sort of future harm,

>whether it's yelling at the driver who cuts in front of you,

>or telling your kid that he'll go blind if he masturbates, but

>we can't be sure whether the driver will feel ashamed or go

>home and hit his wife, or if the kid will ignore the warning

>or develop psychosomatic symptoms. If I worried about the

>effect I might have on everyone I hired, from escorts to

>electricians, I would be unable to function.

>

 

Your point is well-taken. I think traditional ethical concerns vis-a-vis escorting (typically referred to generally as prostitution) stem from the abusive nature of the arrangements used historically by pimps who traded in girls. Other concerns were related to the power imbalance in the traditional client-prostitute relationship.

 

The new escorting arrangements would seem to alleviate many of those concerns although there is still surely a power differential involved in many current escort-client relationships. I'd say it's unclear how these changes will affect mainstream society's view of escorting over time.

 

 

>I will grant you that choosing which laws we, as individuals,

>believe deserve to be obeyed can be a slippery slope, but that

>is not enough reason to rigidly observe any law that is on the

>books, regardless of how illogical it appears. In fact, some

>of us might feel as strong a moral imperative to break a

>certain law as others feel to enforce it. Even when confronted

>with a law I believe in, like speed limits, I try to use

>common sense: if the limit is 55, but road conditions are good

>and most traffic is going 65, I will, too, because driving at

>the legal speed might actually create more of a hazard than

>speeding. If police are arresting escorts and clients in a

>particular city, I won't hire there, not because I believe the

>law is right, but because I don't want to be arrested,

>although I still might publicly protest against the arrests of

>others. But I don't feel that I have any right to tell the

>escorts and clients in that city what they should do about it.

>

 

We see the world in very similar ways, which might mean that we are products of our American culture. I would think that citizens of some other countries may view obedience to laws in a different light. (I'm thinking particularly of Britain, Singapore and the Scandinavian countries.) In such a culture, the reluctance to break even an ill-founded or unfair law may be much stronger than it is here.

 

But, as a happy American, I'm right with you. :-)

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

>PS: Before writing my response, I wanted to make sure I was

>clear on the difference between ethics and morals. I was

>surprised to find, in a Google search of “ethics vs. morals”,

>that there are many opinions on the difference between the

>two. No wonder it can be confusing!

 

Absolutely. Lots of people view "ethics" and "morals" are just two different words for the same thing. I wanted to leave religious considerations out of the discussion and, insofar as it was possible, try to get behind society's general disapproval of escorting to something more grounded in reason or base principles. Hence the distinct I drew. But my distinction is a false one, in that it's one I drew purposefully for this discussion, rather than a distinction that is univerally held.

 

Nice job on the answers, by the way. I found your comments on balance of power, exploitation and the relationship between ethics and the law particulary interesting.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

BG

[Boston Guy]

Tom,

 

Thanks for being the first escort to be brave enough to respond! :-) Listening to thoughts from the other side of the bed, as it were, is particularly interesting.

 

You bring up many points well worth considering (including -- and especially -- that this Message Center is an ethically-compromised space). In many areas, you seem to be in synch with the ideas put forth by clients. I wonder if many or most escorts also share the same world-view.

 

I want to think through the points you've made before responding further but will respond again tomorrow.

 

Thanks! :-)

BG

[Boston Guy]

>>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is

>21.

>> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>>encounter, including any concern about the effects that

>having

>>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on

>him?

>>

>He's an adult. Most people have to do things for their job

>that they don't like.

>

 

Good point. :-)

 

>>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

>>

>Obviously the latter. My business colleagues are not

>interested in hearing the details of my sex life, nor I

>theirs. In fact, doing so might be construed as sexual

>harassment. Such discussions are not appropriate in the

>business environment.

>

 

Yes, indeed. In hindsight, I wish I had picked a different venue. I was looking for a group of people to whom we are not related (to get around family culture) but who are important to us and the general course of our lives.

 

>>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting

>the

>>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the

>escorts

>>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>>here?

>>

>Yes. The consideration is to protect people from government

>stupidity.

 

LOL. You win for funniest remark posted so far in this thread.

 

 

>>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in

>that

>>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can

>you

>>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence

>of

>>the local law?

>>

>I obey laws for one of two reasons: (1) because the law agrees

>with my moral principles, or (2) because I'm unwilling to face

>the consequences if I get caught breaking the law. I don't

>think it's unethical to break the law per se.

 

Interesting. I think most ethicists would claim that it's generally considered to be unethical to break the law absent some compelling reason to do so.

 

They also would draw distinctions about certain kinds of laws, including laws that contain absolutes and/or harm classes of people. For example, suppose a country passed a law that simply made it illegal to murder another person. Ethicists might have a problem with this law because it's an absolute and doesn't provide for situations where murdering another person might be the right and good thing to do. Murder in self-defence in the face of mortal danger might be one example. Killing a gunman who was about to open fire on a group of children would be another.

 

But, generally speaking, I think most ethicists would claim that breaking the law is unethical in the normal instance. Of course, that's just what they would claim, not what we have to believe.

 

Thanks for responding,

 

BG

[alanalt]

>I have very mixed feelings about the ethics of escorting and

>hiring escorts. I purposely use the term "ethics" -- the

>study of what's right and wrong or good and bad based on

>reason -- instead of "morality", which is commonly taken as

>meaning what is right and wrong or good and bad based on

>social or religious conventions.

>

>Morality is a hopeless quicksand here, I think, especially if

>one is to include religious considerations. Forgetting

>escorting for a moment, many of us who are out would have

>serious disagreements with many of our straight contemporaries

>regarding the morality of many simpler gay

>issues. But that doesn't mean that we can't try to look at

>escorting from a more objective -- i.e., ethical -- point of

>view.

 

Just so you know, I have some pretty strong reservations about that kind of reasoning. Essentially, you’re trying to pass judgement on someone’s world-view based on whether they meet your criteria of ‘reason’. In other words, ‘objectivity’ is really often in the eye of the beholder and I don’t think it’s as easy to separate ‘morality’ from ‘ethics’ as you suppose and maybe it shouldn’t be. Often it’s our sense of ‘morality’ rather than ‘ethics’ that lead people to challenge unjust laws/situations because they are inspired by values that transcend ‘objective’ reasoning… So, I’m afraid I’m going to have to respond to these questions based on my world-view and I’ll let you decide whether it’s ‘ethical’ or ‘moral’…

 

And as part of my ‘objectivity’ I’m also answering these without looking at the other comments, so sorry if I repeat arguments/points already made…

 

>So here are some questions. Feel free to answer one or a few

>or all of them.

>

>1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an

>escort?

 

Yes, the same general situations where it would be wrong to enter into any business transaction where the potential for abuse of the relationship exists (such as blackmail) or when one or both of the parties is unable to make a sound mental decision (say through intoxication or drug use).

 

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

 

Generally, though there are certainly exceptions. One would be if either escort or hirer is in a LTR and their partner(s) is not aware or has not consented to the situation. Now, if I was the client and only found out during the session that the escort is in a LTR and the partner was unaware of the escort’s activities, I probably wouldn’t terminate the session unless we were still in the very preliminary stages. But I would not hire the escort again and if asked, I would explain my ‘ethical’ reservations. Another exception would be age. If I was a client hiring a young escort, I would feel the ‘ethical’ responsibility of confirming his age before proceeding. And in all cases, there is the ethical consideration upon the client to treat the escort like a human being, and vice-versa.

 

>3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He

>confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to

>make some money and he wants to help pay for his college

>tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise

>him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to

>escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire

>escorts?

 

I strongly believe that people of legal age and mental capability are responsible for their own decisions. In such a case, I would recommend to my nephew that he very carefully explore the requirements and ramifications of such a career choice (even if only for a short time-period). I would point him towards websites like this one (and others) and would even go as far as introducing him to a friend who used to escort and is now retired. I would also suggest that he might hire an escort to experience it from the client’s perspective. Escorting is an occupation that’s not for everyone but I have no ‘ethical’ objections to it per se… Nor would I lose any respect or affection for my nephew no matter what choice he made as long as the choice is reasoned carefully beforehand.

>

>4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old.

>She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice

>be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is

>there a difference between male and female escorts or the

>hiring of either?

 

My advice to my ‘niece’ would be much the same as above, though I admit that I would probably place more emphasis on the physical ‘dangers’ involved and recommend that her ‘research’ before deciding carefully examine those dangers and how to mitigate them.

 

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of

>stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some

>money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only,

>what should your reaction be?

 

Again, I respect the right of the escort to make his own decision, irrespective of what how that decision might affect me. I can’t imagine seeing an escort on such a regular and prolonged basis without a friendship ‘connection’ being formed; and, as a friend, I would inquire as to his motives for stopping and again provide what advice/support I could to ensure he meets an informed rational decision, including knowing what other career or life-path options he would be making instead. And if that decision is indeed to stop, I would support/endorse it wholeheartedly.

 

And if he called 3 months later, I would again talk to him to take him through his original decision-making process and if all the factors are the same, encourage him to stick to his original decision. I would then discuss his current financial situation with him and help him explore other options (such as borrowing, getting a P/T job, or adjusting his expenditure) to meet his financial needs.

 

>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21.

> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>encounter, including any concern about the effects that having

>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

 

Ok, you’re asking me to act ‘objectively’ based on ‘knowing somehow that he is not attracted’ to me? How does ‘reasoning’ enter into this one? As noted above, I think there’s a basic ‘ethical’ obligation upon the client to be polite and reasonable to the escort, no matter the client’s age and vice-versa. When hiring, I tend to look at an escort’s record (either through this site, others, and his ads on multiple services) to try and avoid such occurrences before they happen. I also feel it incumbent on the client to be upfront to the escort before-hand about certain aspects such as age, weight and sexual preferences before actually agreeing to hire. So, if I’m 35 or 65 and meeting an escort for the first time and despite that disclosure and research, I get a ‘feeling’ that the ‘chemistry’ isn’t going to be right, then I’m going to address it up front to resolve it or cancel the session.

 

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

 

I don’t talk about my sex-life with business colleagues, period.

 

>8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since

>his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he

>wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should

>start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration

>involved in formulating your answer?

 

Absolutely. Again, it’s ‘ethically’ incumbent upon me as a friend to help him make the right decision for the right reasons. If he’s hiring an escort to relieve sexual tension, that’s one thing, but I would emphasize the dangers of falling for someone who’s well-paid to be charming and all the things one looks for in a relationship, including relating my own instance of ‘falling’ for an escort, if necessary to get the point across. However, again, the decision is his, and I can only be responsible for advising him well, not the ultimate outcome of his decision.

 

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

 

Yes. And yes. I don’t consider advising people to avoid being caught breaking the law to be unethical behaviour

>

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and

>looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine

>cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations

>facing the two clients the same?

 

Yes.

 

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

 

Are we talking about laws against escorting? Or laws against prostitution? Because there’s a huge gap between the two. If the law ‘is’ against escorting (i.e. hiring someone for their time irrespective of what 2 consenting adults may decide to do during that time), then probably I would not hire. However, it’s very highly probable that I would ever visit such a jurisdiction in the first place, but in the very unlikely case that I did, I would feel it ethical to obey local laws or restrictions (just as I wouldn’t smuggle alcohol into a country where its consumption is forbidden, though again, I’m not likely to go to such a country).

 

Alan

[Guest skrubber]

So many questions, I don't know where to start.