When is it right to hire an escort?

[jawjateck]

When I'm horny and need it bad! }(

 

My brain shut down trying to sort through this post.....I confess I'm not one of the more profound contributors to this board.

[Lookin]

<When I'm horny and need it bad!>

 

 

"Simplicity of character is the natural result of profound thought."

-- William Hazlitt, Characteristics (1823)

 

 

Sounds to me like you're right on!

[Guest CTguy]

>Dick: Thanks for being the brave soul who took the first

>try!

>

 

BG,

 

Although I like "Dick" that is not my name. I think you are confusing me with CTDick who also posts here. Although we are from the same state we are two different people.

[+ Tom Isern]

QUESTION FOR RESPONDANTS...

 

I noticed in reading the responses to this interesting thread that most people considered themselves "law-abiding" citizens. On a message board that brings together people whose sexual practices have almost always been outside the law (BOTH normative/relational AND commercial sex have, for most of our lives, been illegal activities), why is it that people still want to be seen as "law-abiding"? Very curious here...

[Lookin]

RE: QUESTION FOR RESPONDANTS...

 

<why is it that people still want to be seen as "law-abiding"?>

 

I think it's because "law-abiding" and "non-law-abiding" are black and white terms and, for most people, the reality has a tinge of gray. In my answer to the question, I qualified my law-abiding status with "for the most part".

 

If one considers oneself a member of a society, and the society considers itself "law-abiding", one will probably self-identify as "law-abiding." If one considers oneself an outsider, one may self-identify as "non-law-abiding". But probably neither extreme is accurate, and may not even be possible.

 

I think most of us who belong to a community give it our best shot to espouse the values of that community and, if those values are reflected in laws, we try to follow the laws. Some of us may belong to several communities, with different sets of rules. But we are also individuals; and there will be certain values that we just don't get behind, and certain laws that we "overlook". So we can consider ourselves members of society in-pretty-good-standing, and pretty-much-true to our own values as well.

 

Ever since we became social creatures and started making up laws as to how members of the society should act, there's been a conflict between our personal ethics and the laws of society. I think (and hope) that the conflict will always be there.

 

My two cents on another interesting and relevant question.

[Samai139]

RE: QUESTION FOR RESPONDANTS...

 

Interesting question. I'll plead guilty to being one of those who when asked in the questionnaire, replied that I considered myself law-abiding. If the question had been: "Do you obey ALL laws?" I would have answered "No." But I do obey "most" laws or the vast majority of laws. As BigGuy pointed out, there are shades of grey in most people when it comes to law-abiding. How many adults would answer that they consider themselves law-abiding and yet commit adultery? Granted, maybe adultery is not literally against any civil laws, but...

I'll admit I have more than my share of "split ethics/morality" when it comes to:

buying sex as opposed to buying stolen property

obvious fake "labels"

 

Let me turn the question around. If you do NOT consider yourself law-abiding, do you break ALL laws? MOST laws? SOME laws? Obviously you believe that if you hire an escort you are breaking a law. Does that mean that you do not hire, or you just ignore the legal aspect?

[guptasa1]

Interesting post - thought I'd chime in with my thoughts.

 

>1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an

>escort?

 

There are a few fairly extreme situations where I would feel it was wrong hiring an escort. One such situation would be if the escort was somehow forced into it by a "pimp" figure, agency, etc., against their will. Or any situation where it was clear the escort was NOT happy or comfortable with what he was doing. A much less clear situation would be if I felt for some reason doing so would harm the person in question psychologically. Obviously that's a very wide and open statement, and that can often not be determined, but if someone was clearly a mess for some reason and not in their right head, I wouldn't feel right about it.

 

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

 

I'm not sure I understand the question entirely, but I feel both people involved are making the conscious choice of engaging in an illegal activity. As such, we both need to recognize that and take responsibility for that. (Now, on a moral level, I'm 100% behind legalizing prostitution, and I'll also do everything in my power to not get caught or get the escort in question caught, but that's another issue.)

 

If you mean, can the client act any way he wants around the escort since he's paying to be with him (I don't think that's what you meant, but just in case), no, I believe the client should treat the escort with the same respect as any other human being. I tend to treat it like a date or time spent with a good friend and wouldn't do anything differently than I would around either.

 

>3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He

>confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to

>make some money and he wants to help pay for his college

>tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise

>him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to

>escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire

>escorts?

 

I'd like to think I'd talk seriously with him about both the pros and cons of it and let him make his own decision. For example, talk about how the money and travel are great, but that he needs to be safe (both from violence and STD's) and be sure he can handle it psychologically without regrets later. I'd also offer to let him talk to me about any issues that come up if he does decide to do it. I can't say I wouldn't worry about him if he did decide to escort, but that's natural with someone you care about no matter what they do.

 

>4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old.

>She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice

>be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is

>there a difference between male and female escorts or the

>hiring of either?

 

I would hope it would be the same advice. That's an interesting question to think about. I'd definitely add in pregnancy concerns, but that's about the only difference.

 

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of

>stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some

>money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only,

>what should your reaction be?

 

I'd probably thank him for the great times together and let him know that I'll miss him and wish him the best of luck in whatever he chooses to do from then on, and also that if he ever wishes to get in touch with me (whether to just say hi or to resume escorting), he's always welcome. I'll be honest in that I'd probably be hurting a while if he stopped (I'd only hire someone that much if I *really* liked him a lot), but I wouldn't let him know that besides what I've already said, and I wouldn't contact him again unless he made it clear that was welcome or he was escorting again. And if he called me up again and wanted to do another session, I'd probably go for it as long as it was clear he was comfy with that. I actually did have an escort I really liked (even had a crush on) retire, and this is basically what I ended up doing.

 

>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21.

> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>encounter, including any concern about the effects that having

>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

 

Well, I'd try my best to establish his comfort level up front or through initial communication and not go through with it if I felt he wasn't comfortable. If, for some reason, we did get together and then I felt he was uncomfortable, I almost certainly wouldn't hire him again at the least. We might or might not have sex during our time together, and we'd have to talk about payment and what's fair to each (considering travel considerations, etc.). I actually was with an escort once who wasn't comfortable escorting (he was new), and what eventually happened is he showed me around town (I was traveling), and he cut his rate way down, which seemed fair for me and was a good solution to the problem. No, I didn't get the experience I wanted, but I wouldn't have felt right forcing him, and I felt he treated me fairly. (He wasn't in the business long.)

 

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

 

It really depends on the colleagues. If I knew someone well and was comfortable with them as a person, I probably would if the subject ever came up. Otherwise, probably not. It's just a private thing I'd only share with people I know really well and like. I tend to be a private person in general anyways, so it's no big thing for me to not tell people around me everything about myself.

 

>8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since

>his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he

>wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should

>start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration

>involved in formulating your answer?

 

I'd encourage him, but make sure he knew the basics (safe sex, check the reviews, be prepared emotionally and know you can't expect to be able to see people forever, be prepared for a bad experience occasionally, etc.). As long as he's informed, I'd definitely recommend it.

 

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

 

I obey most laws. I sometimes go a little over the speed limit, I've smoked weed, I hire escorts, and I sometimes download copyrighted material. I'm not perfect in obeying the law, and I admit that.

 

Yes, I'd probably warn the people I talk to who might be susceptable to the sting.

 

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and

>looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine

>cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations

>facing the two clients the same?

 

Well, yes and no. The considerations are the same, but the interpretation of the considerations might be different. For example, it's important to me that the escort has as good a time as possible. I don't like to make people uncomfortable or do things they clearly don't like. So I would try to make my appearance clear up front and make sure the escort was comfortable with me, especially if I was the 65 year old. (Maybe even send a photo, which I wouldn't feel as necessary as the 28-year-old, though I probably would be willing as either).

 

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

 

While I think escorting should be legalized, I really can't provide an acceptable answer to this. I guess I simply sometimes break laws I don't agree with. lol. My main test for this is whether I feel it's hurting the people involved. Since I don't personally feel escorting, if done responsibly by both parties, does hurt anyone, I can justify it.

 

Just my two cents on these issues.

[+ Tom Isern]

RE: QUESTION FOR RESPONDANTS...

 

Thanks for responding to my question, guys. Samai139—I’m not exactly sure what your question is…if you would clarify, I’d be happy to answer (if I don’t in the following).

 

I was surprised to see so many here identify as “law-abiding.” This is a thread about ethics, and one of the great themes in history and literature is how the ethical person frequently finds him/herself in conflict with the law. Yet the notion persists, at least in this country, that the ethical person is the one who conforms to the law. While you say that most in this forum are “gray” on the issue, they seem to be gray “pointing toward conformity.” The law is, I believe, only the codification/policing/discipline of the norms and values of the majority. Since Socrates, at least, that majority opinion has been troubled:

 

"Your thoughtlessness and stupidity, the way you live according to the rule, your submission to your neighbor’s opinion is the reason why you so rarely achieve happiness."

 

I have always believed that gay people should bend their suspicious minds against the law. That is an ethical claim. We should know, from our own history, how the law has been used to silence, abuse, jail, segregate, pathologize, and even execute our own. Hell, in 19th-century Germany they locked people away—for life—for being aroused by work boots. And it would be naïve to claim that things have progressively gotten better ever since. They were better in classical Greece, in the Middle Ages, in the early modern period. History does not show us a progressive and/or incremental march to freedom. Would it were so simple.

 

Anyway, I could go on. But I believe it is in this space—the recognition that “we” are not part of the privileged majority—that ethical thought about the law and glbt/queer people must begin. And from there we reach out and form common cause with other minority groups. We don’t, in any ethics I can respect, rush to identify with a privileged and discriminating majority.

[Curitibano]

>1. Is there ever a time when it is clearly wrong to hire an

>escort?

 

If he's ugly or won't do what you want him to do.

 

>2. If an escort has already decided to escort and is offering

>his services publicly, is one relieved of any ethical

>considerations vis-a-vis the act of hiring him (as opposed to

>how one might act in his presence)?

 

Are you saying it is unethical to hire him? Or, just unethical to say you don't like escorts when he isn't around?

 

>3. Let's assume your favorite nephew is 20 years old. He

>confides in you that he's heard escorting is an easy way to

>make some money and he wants to help pay for his college

>tuition. Will you advise him to go ahead? Or will you advise

>him to make another choice? If you would advise him not to

>escort, how does that relate to your decision to hire

>escorts?

 

I'd ask him what his going rate is, and then hire him for his first experience. Then, depending on how good he was, I would tell him whether or not he should be an escort.

 

>4. Let's assume your favorite neice is also 20 years old.

>She tells you the same story the next day. Will your advice

>be the same to her as to your nephew? If not, why not? Is

>there a difference between male and female escorts or the

>hiring of either?

 

I certainly would NOT hire her. I wouldn't care if she became a working girl or not.

 

>5. As he's getting ready to leave your hotel room, your

>favorite escort tells you that he is considering not escorting

>any more after the end of the week. You've hired him once a

>month for 17 months now. What do you say to him? Do you

>encourage him to stop? Or do you support the idea of

>stopping? If he calls you up 3 months later and needs some

>money and says he is thinking of escorting for a week only,

>what should your reaction be?

 

I'd say, "Good luck, dude", and be done with it. There are a lot more fish in the sea.

 

>6. Let's assume you hire an escort. You are 65 and he is 21.

> Let's assume further you that know somehow that he is not

>attracted to you. If you pay his requested fee, are you

>relieved of any other ethical considerations regarding the

>encounter, including any concern about the effects that having

>sex with older guys he is not attracted to might have on him?

 

I plan on being dead by the time I hit 65. But, if I am still alive an hiring working boys, I would do my best to hire the ones that are good enough actors that it isn't so evident that he doesn't enjoy having sex with my ugly, old ass.

 

>7. Would you freely admit to your business colleagues that

>you hire escorts? If not, does that reflect an ethical

>hypocrisy -- or simply good judgment?

 

If I shared other, personal information with them, then sure. If they are really my friends, then I would tell them. If they were just my "business colleagues" and nothing more, then I probably wouldn't be sharing much of anything with them.

 

>8. Your best friend is 49. He's had no luck in love since

>his last relationship ended three years ago. You know he

>wants another relationship badly. He asks you if he should

>start hiring escorts. If there any ethical consideration

>involved in formulating your answer?

 

If he was looking for sex, and couldn't find it any other way, then yeah, I would advise him to hire a hooker. If he was looking for a relationship, I would tell him to look in the personal ads, or join a gay club, or just go out to a gay bar. Escorts are not the type to date.

 

>9. Do you consider yourself a law-abiding citizen? While

>visiting NYC, you hear that the police have been targeting the

>Howard Johnson's Hotel for escort stings and are planning

>another sting for the coming weekend. Do you warn the escorts

>or clients you talk to? Is there an ethical consideration

>here?

 

I have and will have sex with other men in the US or other countries where it is leagal or not. So, in that respect, I guess I am not a law abiding citizen, since it was illegal for two men of any age, regardless of paying for it, to have sex in many places that I have already had it. Beyond that, I am fairly law abiding. As far as alerting other people of the sting, if I had a chance to do so, then I certainly would.

 

>10. Two guys hire the same 23-year old escort. One is 65,

>overweight, out-of-shape, wrinkled and looks every day of his

>age and then some. The other is 28, handsome, ripped and

>looks like he could have stepped out of a men's magazine

>cover. They pay the same fee. Are the ethical considerations

>facing the two clients the same?

 

No ethical considerations for either one. But, I bet the escort enjoyed the younger, hotter guy more!

 

>11. You decide you want to hire an escort. Escorting in that

>area is against the local laws. On what ethical basis can you

>decide to go ahead and hire the escort despite the presence of

>the local law?

 

As I already mentioned, I have already had sex in places that it was considered illegal. It didn't stop me then, and it sure as hell won't stop me in the future.