Some suicides are more incomprehensible...

[LADoug1]

That's simply not true. You don't have to HAVE cancer in order to know how to treat it. Again, your opinion is just one person's opinion who had failed suicide attempts. There are many others who have failed suicide attempts who agree that suicide is indeed selfish. Like politics, it depends on one's personal viewpoint.

 

You don't need to give a glimpse into the darkness. People can know and understand without needing to have depression. It's not a pissing contest to see who's attempted the most suicides or who's suffered the most major depression.

 

Among others, I feel it is selfish, especially when you have children, family, friends and others who love you and you have the world at your fingertips in so many ways. What does that tell the minimum wage deli-meat slicer at the grocery store who has no friends or family, is single ,and is in declining physical health with tons of debt?

 

I've seen people with stage-4 terminal cancer who fight to live another day. Living another decade or two as a multi-millionaire doesn't seem like a reason to off yourself. As I said, obviously there was likely untreated mental illness (depression) and with the unlimited resources available to someone as educated and connected, it could have been alleviated to a great extent. No need to be so dramatic claiming only those depressed can understand. That's nonsense.

 

Sorry, can’t disagree with you more.

[Kenny]

That's simply not true. You don't have to HAVE cancer in order to know how to treat it. Again, your opinion is just one person's opinion who had failed suicide attempts. There are many others who have failed suicide attempts who agree that suicide is indeed selfish. Like politics, it depends on one's personal viewpoint.

 

You don't need to give a glimpse into the darkness. People can know and understand without needing to have depression. It's not a pissing contest to see who's attempted the most suicides or who's suffered the most major depression.

 

Among others, I feel it is selfish, especially when you have children, family, friends and others who love you and you have the world at your fingertips in so many ways. What does that tell the minimum wage deli-meat slicer at the grocery store who has no friends or family, is single ,and is in declining physical health with tons of debt?

 

I've seen people with stage-4 terminal cancer who fight to live another day. Living another decade or two as a multi-millionaire doesn't seem like a reason to off yourself. As I said, obviously there was likely untreated mental illness (depression) and with the unlimited resources available to someone as educated and connected, it could have been alleviated to a great extent. No need to be so dramatic claiming only those depressed can understand. That's nonsense.

What a cruel post. Parading your moral superiority over those who suffer is, at the very least, unhelpful. Pretending that it is empathy or understanding is delusional.

[Frequentflier]

I think many of us know readily or deep inside that money and fame doesn't equal happiness. The money part can be particularly tough, even if we have the basics or more. Our society values money/cars/houses/etc. to a degree that many financially comfortable people look at those who appear to have more and feel lacking. We're bombarded with messages that we haven't saved enough for retirement (I've known certified financial planners and investment advisers that basically say you need $1 million more than however many millions you already have), Social Security & Medicare won't exist for us, health care costs will increase how much you need to have. Lack of basic necessities (shelter, food, clothing, human relationships) of course prohibits happiness. The sh*tstorm in DC and elsewhere in politics along with the never ending talking heads on the 24/7 news cycle (and gosh forbid - Twitter) can compound the aforementioned concerns we're told we have to be focused on makes things worse.

 

Maybe the answer is to write down what really brings happiness. Perhaps its having the basics, spending time with good friends and/or family, hobbies (reading, painting, gardening, etc.), your pet, etc. and spend free time in those areas. Whatever makes you happy, prioritize. Have a bucket list?

 

I'm assuming this really came from Heath Ledger, if not its still good.

 

[Zapped]

I can only share my own experience, and here it is.

 

There have been a couple of times in my life in which I was genuinely considering suicide. In each episode, I was in a place where some part of my brain was telling me very strongly that my friends, spouse, and children would be both better off without me and happy to be rid of me.

 

It seemed like I'd be doing everyone a favor.

 

Yes, I was facing financial and other challenges at the time. But later I woke up and saw how much people loved me and that the financial challenges were things that could be dealt with (and it turned out, in my case, that bankruptcy wasn't the end of the world, but actually a helpful new start).

 

As far as outwardly successful celebrities go, yes, it doesn't make sense to us. But having known a couple of fucked-up rich and famous celebrities (at least in their own world), I can say that I've seen how big the pressures can be. You can be rich and famous and financially over-extended. You can be rich and famous and find the pressure of living up to your own reputation and past successes overwhelming and crushing. You can be rich and famous and hooked on drugs that distort your thinking. You can be rich and famous and get into a lifestyle in which you get chronically sleep deprived and that distorts your thinking. And, perhaps most tragically, you can be rich and famous and then never know if people actually care for you or only want something from you, whether that's money or simply to back in the reflected how of your fame.

 

And as far as I can tell, wealth and fame can be their own soul-destroying addictions. If some part of you thinks you are crap and you are getting rich and/or famous to compensate, each success can end up reinforcing the sense of inferiority once the initial high wears off. And there's always the fear of losing it all. I don't know anything in particular about Sade and Bourdain, or if this applies to them, but I can imagine in a more general way that the fear of becoming a "has been," which happens to every famous person sooner or later, could be terrifying.

 

I remember years ago the jovial and beloved Today show weather guy, Willard Scott, went public about his anxiety and depression. I was pretty young, and almost disbelieving that this guy who seemed so naturally at ease and warm was suffering when off camera, afraid he'd not be able to pull it off next time.

 

My anxiety can get so intense that I can hardly function sometimes, and I have a pretty low-stress life. Someone like Bourdain? With the weight of not just his own celebrity but the livelihood of everyone surrounding him? I can imagine how that stress combined with a messed-up brain chemistry and, probably, sleep deprivation could have totally distorted his thinking. (I wasn't aware of Kate Spade until she passed.)

[Bucky]

Mental illness and depression are severe human weaknesses and self destruction merely advances a better evolutionary gene pool.

 

And you think 'suicide is selfish' is harsh?

[mike carey]

Mental illness and depression are severe human weaknesses and self destruction merely advances a better evolutionary gene pool.

Cancer is a severe human weakness and self-destruction merely advances a better evolutionary gene pool.

 

What utter nonsense, mental illness and depression are not genetically based, there is a host of causes. Mental illness happens in the most nurturing of families. Hoping that mentally ill people will die will not reduce the future incidence of illness.

[Guest]

 

Among others, I feel it is selfish, especially when you have children, family, friends and others who love you and you have the world at your fingertips in so many ways. What does that tell the minimum wage deli-meat slicer at the grocery store who has no friends or family, is single ,and is in declining physical health with tons of debt?

.

Well, I don’t think that in general a person who feels his life is hopelessly miserable “owes it” to his friends and family to continue a miserable life just to make them feel better. I do feel this person does have an obligation to his spouse and children, and I would have a moral problem if the suicidal person hadn’t at least left a generous life insurance policy (most policies will cover suicide after 2 years). Loved ones will get over the suicide, but the hopelessly depressed person has to live with unhappiness every day.

When I felt suicidal, I bought such a policy. I felt the least I could do was to try to get help for those years to ascertain whether or not the situation was truly helpless. As it turned out, I was able to pull myself up (with some help). Had I not been successful, at least I could show that I tried, and that I had consideration for my loved ones.

[twinkboylover28]

What a cruel post. Parading your moral superiority over those who suffer is, at the very least, unhelpful. Pretending that it is empathy or understanding is delusional.

 

Predictable, typical, bleeding heart, flaming lib fake news. Do you always try to "shame" and manipulate people who disagree with you by name calling and labeling their comments as cruel? The truth is the truth. That's the beauty of facts and statistics. They don't lie. People are sick and tired of walking on egg shells to appease bipolar and fragile individuals who may not he able to handle the viewpoints of other well educated people. Their viewpoints are just as legit and valid as you believe your views to be. Opposing viewpoints that may differ from your own self righteousness.

 

Suicide is selfish of so many levels. To not acknowledge that is simply disingenuous. Yes, it IS selfish to hang yourself when you seemingly have everything at your fingertips that others do not have and will likely never have in a hundred lifetimes. To leave your kids without a father and CREATE all that pain and suffering on your own children, family, and friends SELFISH. I guess that makes me a Debby downer cruel bastard, huh?

 

I wonder how much outpouring of sympathy would be expressed if it were Donald J. Trump who killed himself? The hypocrisy is simply breathtaking.

Edited June 13, 2018 by twinkboylover28

[twinkboylover28]

Thank you for your brave comment. I am in the same situation as you and couldn’t have put it better.

 

How is typing an anonymous message on an internet message board "brave."

 

Of that's right, because YOU agree with the statement.

[twinkboylover28]

Sorry, can’t disagree with you more.

 

Likewise.

[twinkboylover28]

Like most issues, this one isn't as black and white as so many people seem to want it to be. There is a selfishness to suicide, if you want to use that language.

 

What other "language" would you suggest? Shall we all sugar-coat and walk on egg shells around fragile people? This isn't pre-school.

 

There is a very good book about suicidal bipolar people who love to manipulate every little detail and person in their lives. I believe it's called "walking on egg shells" and I suggest you read it.

 

Many people have fought depression, major depression, and horrible life circumstances only to make it out better on the other side. Many people have lost millions and thought they could never live a comfortable lifestyle with "only" a couple hundred thousand... but they can. It's all a matter of perspective. What's most personal is most common, as the saying goes. People learn to live with "new normal's" all the time and adapt.

 

The bottom line is whether you regard suicide as selfish or not, people have the right to hold their own sincerely held viewpoints without being demonized and shamed for holding such valid and sincerely held views. There is nothing cruel about freedom of speech and speaking the truth, especially when it's what you really feel, even if those views don't agree with yours. Gay people especially are supposed to so "open minded."

Edited June 13, 2018 by twinkboylover28

[bigvalboy]

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/13/ultimately-took-kate-spade-anthony-bourdain-wasnt-mental-illness-something-worse/

 

http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1024px-Anthony_Bourdain_005-998x666.jpg

 

 

What Ultimately Took Kate Spade And Anthony Bourdain Wasn’t Mental Illness. It Was Something Worse

 

Let us be intellectually honest about the sorrows of this life. Perhaps then, through a lens of sorrow, we can see the one, eternal hope that renders death not proud.

 

By Caroline D'Agati

June 13, 2018

 

In college, a quote hung on my wall: “Here I am. This is me. Get the h-ll out of the way.” To a nobody from New Jersey who dreamed of bigger things, it was the battle cry of someone who knew his greatest asset was his grit. This kind of person embraced life and was ready to conquer it. That quote was from Anthony Bourdain.

 

Like most fans, I’ve spent the last few days wondering how a man of such fire and tenacity could die so defeated. I loved Bourdain for his zest for life and ability to overcome his demons. His skill at simultaneously getting under someone’s skin and into their hearts showed the world what a New Jersey boy is at his best. He lived life so deeply, yet died so hopeless. That shatters me.

 

These tragedies are an opportunity for us all to take stock of the world around us. Let us be intellectually honest about the sorrows of this life. Perhaps then, through a lens of sorrow, we can see the one, eternal hope that renders death not proud.

 

Yes, Suicide Is About Other People, Too

Since the world’s loss of Bourdain and Kate Spade, the Internet has been ablaze about the cause, effects, and prevention of suicide. Many are quick to object to the observation that suicide is selfish, saying it is instead the result of overwhelming mental illness. Still others have pointed out the surviving children of Spade and Bourdain and how these tragedies will follow them their whole lives.

 

I think it’s cruel to say suicide is selfish, but I also know this: I’m angry at Anthony and Kate. I’m angry for the sake of their children and their loved ones. But I’m also angry for myself. Like millions around the globe, these people brought joy into my life. I’ll always remember how, when I was unemployed, a friend gave me her Kate Spade bag and it lifted my spirits. I’ll remember that my first purchases for my new iPod in college were episodes of “No Reservations.”

 

We loved these people because they helped us see something in the world that brightened the monotony or sadness of our lives. Their curiosity, creativity, and joy gave us a reason to have some, too.

 

To take their own lives was a repudiation of the beauty and joy that they brought to us. They gave us something marvelous then took it back in the most devastating way. Knowing the tragic end of Robin Williams, who can watch “Mrs. Doubtfire” and laugh as she did before? Who can listen to David Foster Wallace

without weeping over his own unheeded advice? And now Tony’s warm humor and Kate’s cheerful creations, too, carry the musty perfume of the grave.

 

Where once we saw the magic and joy of being human, now we can only see the scars. The world’s reaction to these deaths is proof that suicide is never about one person. It stirs humanity because we’re all reminded that the bell, too, tolls for us.

 

Suicide Isn’t Always about Mental Illness

Another coping mechanism we’ve turned to is to blame the deaths on stigmas about mental health. Many believe these deaths were caused by a disease as biologically unstoppable as Parkinson’s or dementia. Still others see them as a deficiency of tangible things like valuable relationships and physical upkeep. Again, I think the truth is somewhere in between.

 

Of course, take medication, go on vacations, quit your horrible job, go to counseling—for heaven’s sake, do whatever you must to preserve your life. But what happens when you are fighting on all of those fronts and death still wins? In a dark night of the soul, there aren’t enough friends, money, or experiences to distract someone from the Big Empty.

 

Every human being must at some time confront the same disease that claimed Anthony, Kate, Robin, and every other person who takes his or her life: meaninglessness. Why are we here and is this life worth living? It’s a sobering thought.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche—another struggler—said that anyone with a “why” to live could endure almost any how. These wealthy, accomplished people had some of the most marvelous “hows” anyone could imagine. Yet none of it could make up for the lack of “why.”

 

There is a reason trauma victims, combat survivors, and celebrities are so vulnerable to suicide. Victims of abuse and witnesses to war are exposed to a depth of humanity that many of us never get to. The lowest lows show us just how depraved and hopeless this world can be.

 

Those with everything are often no different. The highest highs show us that, no matter what we achieve or acquire, the hopelessness doesn’t go away. Both the king and the pauper stare life in the face and see that it’s merely “vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

 

The Antidote to Meaninglessness

In one sense, I agree with Kate and Tony: they were right to be broken-hearted. This is a broken world that neither they nor you nor I will ever be able to set right. Gunmen will continue to kill. Terrorists will bomb. Disease and poverty will ravage. And in 150 years, mourners, victims, saviors, and perpetrators alike will be equally forgotten. The abyss of time makes no distinctions between the hero and the villain.

 

As Kate, Anthony, Robin, and so many other entertainers show, even giving joy to others, in the end, is not enough. So in the end, why bother? How can we not be defeated when we set our eyes on the brokenness of this world? The answer: to fix our eyes on another world. The writer C.S. Lewis famously said that, “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” If we believe this life is all there is, the darkness will blind us to the majesty and beauty of life.

 

Suicide is the tragic, but reasonable response to being confronted by life’s reality with no salve of deeper meaning to bandage the wound. This is why a life without God, no matter how grand, will always leave our hearts unfulfilled.

 

So please, take medication. Talk to your family. Go get treatment. Your life is precious to God and the people around you. It is worth fighting for. But no matter what help those things bring, our hearts only find true peace when they live for the one who created them. I wish my friends Kate and Anthony had felt that peace.

[bigvalboy]

I don't understand all the bashing "Bearofdistinction" is receiving on this message board for sharing a very common viewpoint.

 

Because...It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

[MiamiLooker]

Loved ones will get over the suicide...

Do you really believe that?

[Zapped]

Do you really believe that?

The first time I was suicidal, I wasn’t just depressed, I was delusional, I now realize. I not only thought my family and friends would get over it, I thought that they’d be glad to be rid of me. To be honest, I’m not sure how I got through that time. Maybe it’s because I procrastinate a lot and things cleared up for me before I’d gotten around to figuring out how to do it.

 

In more recent episodes when suicidal thoughts have been triggered, I have been acutely aware of how devastating it would be to my loved ones, especially my (now adult) children. That’s kept suicide in the realm of fantasy rather than action. I haven’t, at those times, been willing to pass the pain on.

 

So while it may indeed be incredibly selfish to take one’s own life, I imagine that most people who actually follow through are out of touch and not able to imagine the pain that will ensue for others.

 

I don’t believe family ever “get over” a suicide. Certainly there may be forgiveness, and learning how to go on. But the damage lasts, leaving scars after healing has happened.

[Frequentflier]

Well, I don’t think that in general a person who feels his life is hopelessly miserable “owes it” to his friends and family to continue a miserable life just to make them feel better. I do feel this person does have an obligation to his spouse and children, and I would have a moral problem if the suicidal person hadn’t at least left a generous life insurance policy (most policies will cover suicide after 2 years). Loved ones will get over the suicide, but the hopelessly depressed person has to live with unhappiness every day. When I felt suicidal, I bought such a policy. I felt the least I could do was to try to get help for those years to ascertain whether or not the situation was truly helpless. As it turned out, I was able to pull myself up (with some help). Had I not been successful, at least I could show that I tried, and that I had consideration for my loved ones.

 

Unicorn, I don't know anything about you but I'm glad you didn't act on your suicidal feelings. I don't think loved ones get over someones suicide and they are as tough, maybe worse, than the loss of someone from natural causes or an accident. Wouldn't loved ones be torn up about whether they missed something they could have helped the person with? If someone dies from Cancer their loved ones don't wonder if they could have cured them. I agree that if someone has a spouse and/or children who are dependent on them they should, if possible, leave them financial resources. I'm not saying you're forgetting this but happiness and taking care of loved ones isn't just about money, right? Sure we need the basics but people prefer those they care about alive over money, right? If a family of 6 is living in a 1,200 square foot house with used cars, 5 year old iPhones, kids with hand me down clothing, but they laugh, enjoy doing things together, look out for each other, have rescued a dog from a shelter that's showered with love and have at least enough for utilities/other necessities they can be happy (and there are many families like this). They need each other more than money for happiness, right? So if someone in that family took their own life, wouldn't the remaining members be torn up with grief, anger at the person voluntarily bringing pain/unhappiness to the family as well as having to live with the whole in their heart that never fills? If someone is mentally ill they're not likely thinking about any of these rational thoughts so we have to excuse them, don't we?

[Walker1]

My one suicidal urge was very odd. I was visiting San Francisco and walked the Golden Gate bridge . It was so beautiful, I was having a very hectic day at work and personally and my mind was whirring at 100 mph in every which way.

 

As I walked the bridge and was looking out at the bay , I slowly became mesmerized by the beautiful scenery. It wasn't that crowded. I stood at the center and peered down the bridge into the water. Suddenly I lost all my sense of self and felt one with everything around me. It was so peaceful so joyous, my usual chattering just stopped and I was still, but like part of something much bigger and vast-it was like time stood still. I felt I never wanted to leave that and felt a deep urge to jump into the water and join this beauty , this stillness, this silence. It was almost like something was asking me to come home. and forget this measly thing called life Then I heard a noise behind me -it was bicyclist who almost crashed into a pedestrian. It almost felt like I snapped back into my body, I got my bearings and my mind resumed its normal chatter and I continued on like nothing happened-a little frightened about the experience. I have felt that deep stillness sometimes in nature, when you lose yourself in everything around you and feel like you are part of something bigger.

 

All we see is the body and the chemical, who knows what exists beyond. To each their own, sometimes you take a step and there is no going back. If I had jumped, who knows I might have gone, no kids, no family-who knows?

[Kenny]

Predictable, typical, bleeding heart, flaming lib fake news. Do you always try to "shame" and manipulate people who disagree with you by name calling and labeling their comments as cruel? The truth is the truth. That's the beauty of facts and statistics. They don't lie. People are sick and tired of walking on egg shells to appease bipolar and fragile individuals who may not he able to handle the viewpoints of other well educated people. Their viewpoints are just as legit and valid as you believe your views to be. Opposing viewpoints that may differ from your own self righteousness.

 

Suicide is selfish of so many levels. To not acknowledge that is simply disingenuous. Yes, it IS selfish to hang yourself when you seemingly have everything at your fingertips that others do not have and will likely never have in a hundred lifetimes. To leave your kids without a father and CREATE all that pain and suffering on your own children, family, and friends SELFISH. I guess that makes me a Debby downer cruel bastard, huh?

 

I wonder how much outpouring of sympathy would be expressed if it were Donald J. Trump who killed himself? The hypocrisy is simply breathtaking.

More stupidity from a troll.

 

Suicide, except in compassionate end of life situations, is irrational. Expecting rational decisions from a suicide victim is just about as ignorant as it gets. No wonder you hold that view.

 

You can start here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/free-range-psychology/201806/is-suicide-selfish

Edited June 14, 2018 by Kenny

[Kenny]

The bottom line is whether you regard suicide as selfish or not, people have the right to hold their own sincerely held viewpoints without being demonized and shamed for holding such valid and sincerely held views.

 

Tell it to Kim Jong Un, doofus.

[+ FreshFluff]

u

I’m quite familiar with depression. When I was young and struggling, I thought of suicide myself. But I don’t think of it now that I’m successful and healthy. Usually people get depressed when they are struggling over something—finances, love, legal problems, health. As far as I’ve heard, neither Spade nor Bourdain were facing any major challenges, so I’m just wondering what could have been stressing them out so much that they felt suicide was the best option.

 

Kate Spade's husband reportedly wanted a divorce, while she wanted the marriage to continue. (He denies this now, but he had been shopping around for a 1 bedroom.) They had already been separated for some time. I wonder if he had just admitted that he'd met someone else.

Edited June 14, 2018 by FreshFluff

[marylander1940]

People who commit suicide are the most selfish people on the planet == I lost a dear wonderful intelligent funny sexy productive creative amazing FWB++ this year --- He ripped the hearts out of family and friends and tore my heart to shreds -- Why? So many people loved him . . .

 

Sometimes our actions aren't logical nor rational.

 

I don't know why he did it but I hope he R.I.P.

[mike carey]

I was hitherto unaware that there was a form of privilege in having good mental health.

[LADoug1]

Do you really believe that?

My sister and brother both committed suicide. My mother is now 90 and is not over it yet. I doubt she ever will be.

Edited June 15, 2018 by LADoug1

[LADoug1]

Do you really believe that?

My sister and brother both committed suicide. My mother is now 90 and is not over it yet. I doubt she ever will be.

Edited June 15, 2018 by LADoug1

[Kenny]

I was hitherto unaware that there was a form of privilege in having good mental health.

Yes, one learns the darnedest things here. I didn’t know, for instance, that if you have leukemia or multiple sclerosis, it’s your own damn fault. Same with mental illness. Just stop it. Be best.