Massageislife

Hornytwells, comments that appear to be baseless attacks on masseurs should be condemned, but I don't think you are saying that any of the negative comments about Ryan are baseless.
 
What I am suggesting is that there is a difference between posting positive experiences about masseurs and "defending" them. What suggests an "agenda," to use your word, is going beyond adding one's positive experience to the discussion by moving onto language which seems to challenge or excuse other, less positive experiences. It is enough, for example, for you to say that he has usually been reliable in his appointments with you. You go beyond that, however, when you write that you "never...heard of him doing such a thing" as being unreliable. You, in fact, heard it from this very thread! Likewise, posting your own attitude towards Ryan's level of talkitiveness is appropriate, but it's bewildering to me why you would feel the need to tell us that "many people I know like to relax in a massage and not converse." We can speak for ourselves, and the posters in this thread have. The same goes for this comment of yours: "I have read several posts from people on here who hate chatty masseurs and complain that they talk too much." Again, we don't need you to tell us what others think. We can read. Your engaging in this kind of rhetoric is what makes your post seem like advocacy.
 
I'm glad you have had good experiences with Ryan, but good masseurs don't need defenders. Their work and positive comments posted about them on this site are sufficient.

Ah, Gustavo ?

Hornytwells, by "both ways" do you mean that we should avoid writing malicious responses whose purpose is just to harm a masseur's reputation? I think we all agree that's also not the purpose of this site. The negative experiences with Ryan described above, however, don't have that character. I want to know if a masseur has smelled bad, shorted a client on time, cancelled at the last minute, or was chatty. You don't appear to be suggesting that these weren't the experiences of others. There is no need to try to "balance out" experiences that are different than your own. It's enough to add them to the mix.

I mostly agree except for that last, parenthetical remark. My hope is that we can agree on basics, like a massage advertised as erotic and costing $150-60/hr. has some basic, agreed upon parameters

I think the point here is to consider our roles on this site. I certainly want to hear about masseurs with whom our comrades have had good (as well as bad) experiences; that's the main reason why we come here. It's when praise seems to grade into advocacy for a masseur, sometimes in the form of seeming to challenge negative experiences of others, that positive comments lose their value or even become suspect.

I get your point. Sounds like your sessions have always worked out great. The posts on this thread go back and forth on clients who ended up happy with the session, like yourself....and clients who ended up not happy, shorted on time, cancelled on last minute, etc. There are so many masseurs who have had no negative feedback at all in posts that I feel more comfortable going to them, and not wasting my time that I might catch Ryan West on one of his bad days. My time is very valuable, and I can't chance being a client who ends up like others in this thread who did not get what they signed up for. Thanks for your feedback .....sounds like he is working out great for you.

What an interesting thread!
 
The focus of my sexuality has moved through pick-ups and relationships for the first years of my out life to the highly erotic club scene and "circuit" to strip clubs and now to m4m massage (porn has always had some role in my sex life). I haven't really moved on to escorts yet, but I hope to explore that experience someday. Each stage has been deeply rewarding but also complicated. I'm pretty Freudian about this: after the liquid perfection of life in the womb, humans are on a search for a return to that complete, safe, satisfying experience of merging with another person. It's not fully achievable, of course (my mother wouldn't have it! (plus I've grown a bit)), but all those different phases gave me intense moments of connection with another man and of blissful release from the "vale of sorrows" of ours.
 
All of these phases had their expenses--love DEFINITELY ain't free--so I have to use the same economic calculations about massage that I used in my other sexual pursuits. And even the emotional dimensions: it's easy to say that transactional sexual encounters like with strippers, escorts, or erotic masseurs aren't "real," but tricks and even boyfriends/husbands aren't simple emotionally either. We should all attend to our purses and our hearts.
 
The bottom line for me is that life is not easy; there is no solution to horniness or loneliness; rich emotional and sexual experiences are to be found in all kinds of places and all kinds of conditions. Right now for me "massage is life."

Scamorama everywhere.
That’s why we look out for each other & call out &!post the scammers in this great forum.

I’ve always been interested in language and word choice. Very nerdy, I know.
 
I’m not young or good looking. I’ve never read a post with YMMV to mean the poster was bragging in some way. To me it’s always been more of a heads-up: no guarantee that my experience will match yours.
 
These are human interactions we’re having and writing about here. Every masseur has good days and lesser days. I have good days and not so good days. Throw those infinite variabilities in the pot along with how the masseur and me are impacted by many other things leading up to the moments of massage and there you go. YMMV.
 
I’m introducing a new term: MOMMV, which stands for My Own Mileage May Vary, which applies to how I have seen the same masseur on different occasions and felt one appointment was so much better than another.

My bad, he lists mobile first, I misread.
 
I still don't see the point, you pay $20 extra only to get frustrated and leave wondering whether more is possible
 
But that's definitely better than $160, which would be outrageous, and yes, some hot guys try to get away with it.

I agree with NYCman when he talks about YMMV as a means of signaling that one’s encounter (as a total experience) probably was not typical for lots of different reasons. I usually have a “sense” about “what’s done unto you may not be what is done unto others” and that is either on my end or the masseurs. Sometimes it’s an off day for me just like it can be an off day for them, or an “on” day for me and same for the masseur.
 
However I don’t use YMMV when the masseur was clearly not like the pictures or did not performed the massage as advertised... those elements that are in the ad and fair game for comment. I actually wish more would comment on the masseur’s actual skill level because that is primarily why I go. I’m interested in “worth what paid for.” We all know people and places where we can get what we want for a whole lot less than what some private masseurs charge. So was the masseur and massage as advertised (granted that measure is subjective)? For me, that would not be YMMV.

To me YMMV literally always reads as “i had a sexy time but I’m kinda cute so you might not if you’re not cute like me”

NYCman, thank you for posting on this thread. What you say is really useful, perfect really!

Well said. I do not like being explosively turned on, as I am sure I would be with Georgie (I already am just from his MF pics) & then end up deflated. I love the relaxed & unwound feeling of a therapeutic massage from someone to whom I am not attracted, but I hate the drowning in my own hormones, blue-balled feeling when I get a therapeutic massage from someone to who totally turns me on, but doesn’t go beyond therapeutic.
 
It’s why I had to stop seeing one really good straight masseur. I thought I would finally be able to overcome my reactions, but I just kept on getting more & more turned on. He was nice about it, but it got to the point I’d walk in with a hard-on. It felt awkward & I could not torture myself again.

EVdude, I hear you! I've gone to George twice, and I'll probably go again, but I'm conflicted. I don't want to spend any time during a therapeutic massage hoping that it will turn erotic. It's hard not to imagine it, however, with such a good-looking guy, pun intended. Unfortunately, although I'm pretty sure that George is gay, there aren't any signs, at least in my interactions with him, that he will move in a more erotic direction.
 
A deep dig from the hands of someone so attractive--he really is a model--is "erotic," but that edging thing is just torture, if it doesn't pay off in the end. In videos it always does!

One of my only frustrations with this site, which is otherwise one of the greatest things I've ever run across on-line, is the confusing way that the phrase, "Your mileage may vary" (YMMV), is used.
 
I don't use this phrase in my own postings because I'm not sure what it conveys to people, but perhaps a discussion might help clarify it. I welcome your input!
 
My own understanding of "YMMV" is that it refers to things, beyond the basic services contracted for, that some clients may experience but others may not. This includes 1) ineffable things that are not possible for a masseur to advertise or guarantee (connection, enthusiasm, etc.) or 2) sexual things beyond what the masseur explicitly advertises: for therapeutic: anything sensual at all; for sensual: anything beyond non-sexual elements that give the body pleasure; for erotic: anything beyond mutual nudity, basic MT, and non-avoidance of the genitals and ass (most of us, I think, also see of HE as part of erotic massage). If we get something beyond what we contract for, perhaps it's appropriate to post something about it, and then, I guess, adding "YMMV" could be additional information. For me, however, there isn't a lot of value in writing "YMMV," since I think all of us understand that our individual interaction with a masseur will be unique in some way. If a therapeutic masseur got naked or an erotic masseur kissed us, I think it's a given that others can't expect the same. (Hope springs eternal though!)
 
What YMMV does NOT mean, however, is that a masseur may offer what he advertises to some clients and not others (or to others for an additional charge), and I hope that we won't use the term that way. I go to this site, in part, to find out if masseurs' ads are honest (i.e., that their pictures are accurate and that they follow through on the services they advertise without upcharge). What I want, in this regard, from my brothers on this site is a warning about masseurs whose ads are dishonest; that is, the pictures are dated or not of them and if, specifically, they advertise and charge for erotic massage but don't follow through or attempt to upcharge for any of its elements. When someone has experienced this kind of "false advertising" with a masseur, I appreciate their posts about it. What is frustrating is when I get the sense that posters are covering up or avoiding the mention of such shortcomings by writing "YMMV." When we know that a masseur is not advertising honestly, I hope that we will let each other know.

Monarchy, thank you for responding to your post. It means a lot to me, coming from you, who is an active and valuable participant in this site. I've been following--struggling not to weigh in on--your discussion on the "good attitude" thread. Race and racism is one of the often brutal dimensions of m4m massage--and every human, including sexual, interaction.
 
I also appreciate your putting my post in the context of my others too, but I think you are not reading what I'm saying correctly (I also acknowledge that I may not always be communicating effectively!). I don't believe in an ideal massage world (or any ideal world), and I don't want the same experience from all masseurs (or even the same masseur, if I see him more than once). I am not looking for an escort (although I'm sure I will someday; it sounds fun!). I also don't see this site as a place to direct me to masseurs who give escort-style extras. I find it somewhat distasteful, in fact, when posters seem to be bragging that they got sex for the price of a massage. It's exciting to get more than the basics of an erotic massage, but it's disrespectful to expect or even ask (at least in the initial outreach) for more than masseurs are advertising. And if they give "more," which is delightful, I hope the client tips appropriately (i.e., escort price).
 
I guess everyone has some deep desire for the "ideal" massage, but I understand that the ideal is, in its pure form, not possible in this vale of sorrows called life. Before I found this site, however, I hired several masseurs I would never have chosen, once I had started using it. I rarely have massages now that I leave disappointed from, and I owe that, in large part, to my brothers on this site. The couple of threads I've initiated, however, are attempts to be part of making this site even better. Even great things can be better. I think we can help each other understand what to expect generally and from specific masseurs, especially when it comes to what constitutes an erotic massage. We all already know what a "legit," therapeutic massage is.
 
What hasn't been helpful in anticipating if a masseur will provide erotic "basics" (I'm not talking about kissing, sucking, rimming, fucking, much less "connection") is when a poster writes, "YMMV." If YMMV means a masseur advertising erotic massage may not disrobe, may keep away from any of my own touching, and may avoid my private parts, I wish the poster would write that instead. That flags false advertising.
 
Too often, too, YMMV also seems like an opportunity to boast ("I got extras, but I've got a big dick / I'm young / I'm good looking / I'm irresistible, so YMMV."). We all know our place in the "marketplace of desire," so that use of YMMV can feel a little punishing.
 
Finally, I've gotten "extras" many times myself, but if someone PMs me about a masseur who gave them to me, I always try to emphasize that I don't know if that is a standard part of their massage. I don't think it's necessary to add "YMMV," since I think everyone understands what I mean.

Redwine, I get what you say. I just initiated a thread about the term, "YMMV." I think what you're saying is that YMMV may be useful when we get the sense that our experience--good or bad--may be typical, and we want to qualify what we've written.

YMMV = went above and beyond my expectations based on ad and experience with other masseurs offering similar services.
I use “Buyer beware” when basic service was disappointing or if i spot a number of red flags. ?

Well, how about considering that YMMV will apply when you take in to account what number you are in the rotation of the masseur's schedule that day. I've shared my recent disappointing experience with Ryan West. I was probably #4 or #5 for that day in early evening. He made it clear that he was not done for the day after me. How can his first session of that day be the same as his last? These masseurs are human. They get tired too. Regarding this thread about Rainier who can be compared to Ryan traveling from the west coast to perform as many massages as possible here in NYC and return home with ready $$$, YM Will V. I want to try Rainier but am reluctant after my experience with Ryan.

I agree with nycman's definition. I use it when I feel my experience was somehow outside this masseurs norm.

I tend to use “YMMV” when I know that I had strong
chemistry (or lack there of) with an individual provider.
 
I use it as a shorthand way of communicating that
my over the top (or disastrous) experience may not
in fact be “typical”.
 
I understand your point that YMMV applies to every
encounter and thus it appears superfluous, but I
disagree. Sometimes you have a strong inclination
that your experience wasn’t “the norm” and sharing
that feeling can help others keep their expectations in
check.

Also,
I think it also is important to navigate through this fantastic site, with the proper tactics of research....
 
When I research, I don’t just research the masseurs, I research the posters... here’s what I mean...
 
If there is a poster who has rated a masseur highly, I search his other rated posts, and see what those masseurs all have in common...
 
Then I look at factors that the poster may reveal about himself in his profile and his other posts (such as his age, race, height, and build), and then I compare those to my stats..
 
That has resulted in me having mind-blowing massages that meet my expectations.
 
Here’s an example:
 
There was a masseur that got fantastic rating from a poster, who makes excellent posts.. the poster is a 6’2”, white guy in his early 30s.... given that I’m a 5’9”, black dude, at the age of 40....
I determined that we wouldn’t have the same mileage....
 
However, after getting a PM’ed review of a masseur from another poster who has similar stats to mine (which may mean equal mileage), I scheduled a massage and it was fantastic.
 
My point is that there’s a science to everything, and a strategic approach to this, actually works!!!

It makes MORE than sense! Thank you for replying to my post!

The fact that Danny, Rammi and Rasllan all have similar profiles should be a red-flag.
Omar on the other hand is the real-deal.
Looks like his pics and definitely skilled at legitimate massage.
Very nice man and very handsome for sure.