Bob Dylan Sings About Gay Love

[+ WilliamM]

Style New York Times

Bob Dylan Sings About Gay Love

By JIM FARBERAPRIL 5, 2018

 

 

The artists participating in the “Universal Love” project. Top row, from left, Bob Dylan, Kele Okereke, St. Vincent. Bottom row, from left, Valerie June, Kesha, Ben Gibbard.

Shortly after the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in 2015, Justice Antonin Scalia attended a party where he signaled his displeasure by singing Bob Dylan’s “

’.”

 

[Comment: What an ass!]

 

“He sang with great verve,” Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg told The Washington Post at the time.

 

Now Mr. Dylan himself is crooning about same-sex love. As part of a new EP called “Universal Love,” he rerecorded the 1929 song “She’s Funny That Way,” from the Great American Songbook catalog, but switched the pronoun to “He’s Funny That Way.”

 

The six-track set, to be released April 6, also features Kesha, St. Vincent and other noted musicians covering well-known pop hits with a same-sex twist. The performers represent a mix of gay and straight artists.

 

“If you look at the history of pop music, love songs have predominantly come from one heterosexual perspective,” said Tom Murphy, a co-producer of “Universal Love.” “If we view music as something that brings people together, shouldn’t these popular songs be open to everyone?”

 

The album was funded by MGM Resorts International and its songs are intended to function as wedding anthems for same-sex couples. Gay weddings account for between 20 percent and 30 percent of the ceremonies performed at the company’s 15 hotels in Las Vegas, said Jim Murren, its chief executive.

 

 

To secure the right to perform the songs with altered lyrics, permission was required from the songs’ publishers. “The response was completely positive,” said Rob Kaplan, the project’s executive producer.

 

Photo

"Universal Love" on vinyl.

Mr. Kaplan started his search for artists with Ben Gibbard, the frontman for Death Cab for Cutie, an alternative rock band from Washington State. Mr. Gibbard had expressed his support of marriage equality in a 2012 essay for The Daily Beast, inspired by his sister, a lesbian. “This was a cause at our family dinner table,” Mr. Gibbard said.

 

For the project, Mr. Gibbard elected to recast the Beatles classic “

” to “And I Love Him.” “It’s a song my dad often played to my mom after dinner,” he said. “Also, it’s a song everyone knows.”

 

Kesha chose Janis Joplin’s “I Need a Man to Love” (“such a gritty, soulful song,” Kesha said), and changed it to “I Need a Woman to Love.” “For years I said that I’m not getting married until any two people can legally marry in this country,” Kesha said. She has since become ordained and has performed weddings for two gay couples.

 

Valerie June, a country and blues singer who attended her first gay marriage last year for her cousin, recorded a big-band version of “Mad About the Boy,” changing “boy” to “girl.” Ms. June believes it adds an extra layer of meaning that the song’s writer, Noël Coward, was gay and that the version he recorded in 1932 wasn’t released in its day because of prevailing homophobia.

 

“It brings the song full circle to know that it was written by a gay man who meant every single word of ‘Mad About the Boy,’” she said.

 

Mr. Dylan, who does not appear to have spoken out in favor of gay rights in the past, declined to be interviewed. But his choice of song, “She’s Funny That Way,” which has been recorded by Frank Sinatra and Nat King Cole, gains a wink in its current guise; “He’s Funny That Way” can also be read as an antiquated code for a gay person.

 

Mr. Dylan’s warm and wry performance captures the mix of wit and sincerity favored by songs from the American standards era.

 

Photo

Bob Dylan, seen here in a 2012 performance in Los Angeles, recorded “He’s Funny That Way” for the project. Credit Chris Pizzello/Associated Press

Mr. Kaplan said that when he contacted Mr. Dylan, he got a very quick yes. “And it wasn’t just ‘yes, I’ll do this,’” he said. “It was ‘hey, I have an idea for a song.’”

 

“Universal Love” arrives at an evolving time for same-sex pronouns in pop. Though major music stars started to come out in significant numbers in the 1990s, with artists including K. D. Lang, Melissa Etheridge and Elton John, rarely, if ever, did they use same-sex pronouns in their recordings.

 

Only in the last six years have younger stars slowly begun to do so, including Frank Ocean, Olly Alexander and Mary Lambert, who crooned the chorus of Macklemore and Ryan Lewis’s Grammy-nominated “

” in 2012.

 

 

 

“For a long time, queer people had to use the awkward ‘you’ in their songs to avoid outing themselves,” said Stephan Pennington, a professor of music at Tufts University who teaches a course in “queer pop.”

 

“There has also always been pressure from the record companies to not be exclusionary by using a same-sex pronoun,” Mr. Pennington said. “But heterosexual expressions are never thought of as exclusionary.”

 

Indeed, Sam Smith, arguably the most prominent gay pop star today, refrains from using same-sex pronouns.

 

Allison Zatarain, a producer of a new album titled “Instant Love,” which mirrors the mission of “Universal Love” by featuring female artists singing love songs to other women, believes the use of same-sex pronouns in pop songs “fills a massive hole in the world’s musical library.”

 

“To hear a woman sing to another woman, or a man to a man, lends the song a specificity that is so much more impactful than addressing ‘you,’” she said.

[TruthBTold]

While universally heartened by the fact that Dylan is singing a song that has been altered solely to recognize opposite sex relationships, didn't Dylan go through a Christian phase in his life/career? I was never sure how that impacted his life and still wonder if there is any impact regarding same sex marriage/ relationships?

[+ Avalon]

While universally heartened by the fact that Dylan is singing a song that has been altered solely to recognize opposite sex relationships, didn't Dylan go through a Christian phase in his life/career? I was never sure how that impacted his life and still wonder if there is any impact regarding same sex marriage/ relationships?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dylan#Religious_beliefs

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/bob-dylan-jesus-trouble-no-more-bootleg-series-volume-13-slow-train-coming-u2-a8031031.html

[+ quoththeraven]

K-pop is heading toward gender-neutral songs and covers of songs that affirm same-sex love by not changing the pronouns when female artists cover songs by male artists and vice versa.

 

There's also the debut song by out gay artist Holland, which was rated 19 (Korean age equivalent of 18) because of a same-sex kiss:

The lyrics are roughly equivalent to "Somewhere" from West Side Story.

[TruthBTold]

K-pop is heading toward gender-neutral songs and covers of songs that affirm same-sex love by not changing the pronouns when female artists cover songs by male artists and vice versa.

 

There's also the debut song by out gay artist Holland, which was rated 19 (Korean age equivalent of 18) because of a same-sex kiss:

The lyrics are roughly equivalent to "Somewhere" from West Side Story.

 

Nice voice.

[+ quoththeraven]

Nice voice.

I've seen a lot of criticism of his voice because he didn't train in a k-pop idol factory and his voice hasn't been processed to death in the course of recording. I agree with you, but his voice timbre more resembles Western pop singers '.

 

International k-pop fans are supporters because of LGBTQ equality, which is why the MV has millions of views.

 

It may say something that his debut and MV have received less hatred than the debut MV of girl group Honey Popcorn, which is comprised of three Japanese porn stars, one of whom is also a j-pop idol. (Porn is illegal in South Korea, but everyone seems to know the content of their porn videos.) There's nothing salacious about the song or video, but the idea that they're doing this using their porn star names and aren't giving up their porn careers is causing major pearl-clutching, up to and including a petition to the Blue House (South Korean equivalent to the White House) to ban the group.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by quoththeraven

[TruthBTold]

The song is fine. I guess I am a little troubled by it however in that considering the circumstances they chose to make it so that it appears that the characters are very young.

[+ quoththeraven]

The song is fine. I guess I am a little troubled by it however in that considering the circumstances they chose to make it so that it appears that the characters are very young.

They're all in their twenties, and that type of cutesy, "innocent" presentation is one of the more popular girl group concepts. Sometimes it seems like K-pop is drowning in cutesy and sexy concepts for girl groups and nothing else.

 

Examples (this one has an obvious double entendre meaning based on the lyrics; Twice is currently the most popular K-pop girl group; some of them are underage)

Closer by Oh My Girl is a truly innocent concept without the smarmy Lolitazation of Twice and is a beautiful song. The vocals are processed so they shimmer.

Navillera by Gfriend, the group most cited as a template for Honey Popcorn's music and image.

As a palate cleanser, 2NE1, my favorite girl group, now unfortunately disbanded:

[TruthBTold]

I felt like I was watching lesbian art films.

[+ WilliamM]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gay performers have sang Surabaya Johnny, but not Bob Dylan yet.

[TruthBTold]

. . . .

Gay performers have sang Surabaya Johnny, but not Bob Dylan yet.

 

Oh those Brazilians. Quite the performance. I suppose perhaps it might come close to some 1930s version of the song. But certainly not my favorite.

 

Meanwhile, thank you for the Marianne Faithfull version. One of the great albums of all time from one of the great performers. The album that Surabaya Johnny comes from is a keeper. It has one of my favorite songs on it (The Ballad of Lucy Jordan). Broken English and Working Class Hero are also fantastic. Faithfull has one of those voices like no other (actually a little like Marlene Dietrich). However, I don't think Faithfull is gay. Perhaps you just meant the first performer but I was not sure.

Edited April 10, 2018 by TruthBTold

[+ WilliamM]

However, I don't think Faithfull is gay. Perhaps you just meant the first performer but I was not sure.

 

Yes, I did not mean Marianne Faithful is gay. Tom Robinson, who is gay, has sung the song but it is not available on you tube. And it seemed right to include an English version.

[+ quoththeraven]

I felt like I was watching lesbian art films.

All of them or just 2NE1?

 

There's a reason I mostly post boy band videos. Some of their MVs have very obvious homoerotic overtones.

[TruthBTold]

All of them or just 2NE1?

There's a reason I mostly post boy band videos. Some of their MVs have very obvious homoerotic overtones.

 

I was just referring to Closer, the two of the others seem more akin to kiddie porn.

[+ quoththeraven]

I was just referring to Closer, the two of the others seem more akin to kiddie porn.

I don't get lesbian vibes from "Closer." I do from "Crush," including the group's leader, CL, brushing by herself in a fur coat at the end of the video. There must have been some mad greenscreen and editing to accomplish that. If you haven't watched it, you might want to check it out. The music itself is light years away from the first three groups also.

[+ quoththeraven]

SBS Pop Asia posted an interview with Holland discussing his debut, his reception and future plans, and the state of the LGBTQIA community in South Korea. Like Honey Popcorn, he's self-funding his career. He also mentions that he knew that a same-sex kiss would draw a 19+ rating and he deliberately included it in the MV to start a conversation.

 

 

Incidentally, as an independent artist, Holland is not an idol, nor is he the first out gay pop singer. Korean American singer Marshall Bang (stylized MRSHLL) is gay but is not making that the focus of his music like Holland. He's signed to the agency run by Tiger JK and Yoon Mirae, the First Couple of khiphop, and can be called an idol. Here's his most recent song, a feature with Michelle Lee for DJ Friz.

 

 

There's an English version, but many of the words are hard to make out and as a love song sung as a duet, it's more obviously heterosexual in outlook.

 

There's also a little -known boy group (so little known that I don't remember the name) two of whose members are dating and whose leader is bisexual. They've mentioned this on their individual Facebook accounts.

[+ quoththeraven]

Apologies to @WilliamM for further hijacking this thread, but it makes the most sense to post this in the same thread as Holland's "Neverland" above. K-indie rock band Hyukoh's latest song "Love Ya," which is entirely in English, is about love in general. The MV includes same-sex and opposite-sex couples kissing and showing affection as well as affection between family members.

What makes this even more interesting is that Hyukoh is signed to a subsidiary of one of the Big 3 record labels/music agencies in South Korea and the very first comment on YouTube is from Holland himself.

 

As far as I know, no one in Hyukoh is or has been rumored or speculated to be LGBTQ.

[TruthBTold]

Apologies to @WilliamM for further hijacking this thread, but it makes the most sense to post this in the same thread as Holland's "Neverland" above. K-indie rock band Hyukoh's latest song "Love Ya," which is entirely in English, is about love in general. The MV includes same-sex and opposite-sex couples kissing and showing affection as well as affection between family members.

What makes this even more interesting is that Hyukoh is signed to a subsidiary of one of the Big 3 record labels/music agencies in South Korea and the very first comment on YouTube is from Holland himself.

As far as I know, no one in Hyukoh is or has been rumored or speculated to be LGBTQ.

 

Thanks for this. A wonderful celebration of love, whatever kind.

[+ quoththeraven]

I should probably collect this all in a thread about queer visibility in South Korea, but here's a video for the song "Come Over" by Korean-American R&B singer MRSHLL, who is signed to the Feel Ghood agency/label owned by Tiger JK, the godfather of k-hiphop, and his wife and fellow rapper, Yoon Mirae. Since MRSHLL came out in 2015 and started releasing material last year, he, not Holland, is the first openly gay Kpop artist.

The MV itself is very minimalistic compared to Holland's MVs. MRSHLL has the best R&B voice out of all the K-r&b artists I've heard, possibly because of his US origins and his church roots. His mother is an evangelical minister, so he undoubtedly was exposed to gospel singing at an early age.

[maninsoma]

I recognize Dylan's talents as a musician and songwriter, but typically have difficulty appreciating his singing.

 

I love lots of KPop, so I don't mind this thread's tangents. I've always derived pleasure from boy band/girl group style of music, and to me a lot of current KPop fills a void that's present in the USA top 40 at the moment. Every once in a while we get a catchy pop song that could qualify as modern day bubblegum music, but not often enough for my liking.

[TruthBTold]

I should probably collect this all in a thread about queer visibility in South Korea, but here's a video for the song "Come Over" by Korean-American R&B singer MRSHLL, who is signed to the Feel Ghood agency/label owned by Tiger JK, the godfather of k-hiphop, and his wife and fellow rapper, Yoon Mirae. Since MRSHLL came out in 2015 and started releasing material last year, he, not Holland, is the first openly gay Kpop artist.

The MV itself is very minimalistic compared to Holland's MVs. MRSHLL has the best R&B voice out of all the K-r&b artists I've heard, possibly because of his US origins and his church roots. His mother is an evangelical minister, so he undoubtedly was exposed to gospel singing at an early age.

 

Really nice voice. Thanks for that.

[+ quoththeraven]

Really nice voice. Thanks for that.

He is a great singer. It's too bad he is less well-known to international fans than Holland is. Neither of them promote their music on South Korea's many music shows, which is a shame. Since he has no agency and his MVs are rated 19+ (equivalent to 18+ here because of differences in calculating age), Holland would have difficulty making the contacts necessary to get on such shows, but MRSHLL shouldn't have a problem if he and his agency want to do it.

 

Here's another song on which MRSHLL features. I actually like it better than the solo material I've heard.

[+ quoththeraven]

I recognize Dylan's talents as a musician and songwriter, but typically have difficulty appreciating his singing.

 

I love lots of KPop, so I don't mind this thread's tangents. I've always derived pleasure from boy band/girl group style of music, and to me a lot of current KPop fills a void that's present in the USA top 40 at the moment. Every once in a while we get a catchy pop song that could qualify as modern day bubblegum music, but not often enough for my liking.

I actually consider a minority of Kpop to fall into the category of bubblegum music, but Kpop is insanely catchy, more interested in vocal prowess and easier for me to listen to than Western pop because I'm not straining (and failing) to understand the lyrics. It's also far more experimental and adventurous to the point where American R&B songwriters prefer to write for Kpop groups because what Western groups want is formulaic and uninteresting. More music is made in South Korea with more attention to detail - and cinematic MVs - than is ever dreamed of in the US.

[+ quoththeraven]

I actually consider a minority of Kpop to fall into the category of bubblegum music, but Kpop is insanely catchy, more interested in vocal prowess and easier for me to listen to than Western pop because I'm not straining (and failing) to understand the lyrics. It's also far more experimental and adventurous to the point where American R&B songwriters prefer to write for Kpop groups because what Western groups want is formulaic and uninteresting. More music is made in South Korea with more attention to detail - and cinematic MVs - than is ever dreamed of in the US.

This is a quote from the Rolling Stone article that is the basis for my assertion about R&B writers preferring to work in South Korea.

 

“In the U.S., we like it simple, we like the same melodies repeated,” agrees Bell, who has written hits for EXO, ShinEE and Taeyeon.

 

In contrast, “Korean pop music likes differentiation and changes,” Bell continues.

“The average American song is four melodies, maybe five. The average K-pop song is eight to 10. They are also very heavy in the harmonies.” “The one-loop beat doesn’t work over there,” adds Randolph, who helped write “Limitless,” a hit for the nine-member boy band NCT127, who were put together by S.M. Entertainment. “You definitely get to stretch. No other style of music has that many parts in their songs."

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/how-american-rb-songwriters-found-a-new-home-in-k-pop-627643/

 

That's inconsistent with the characterization of k-pop as bubblegum. Not that none of it is, but the insistence that catchy, upbeat pop music (also not the entirety of kpop) is all bubblegum baffles me and is an indictment of the diminished reputation of pop in the US.

[+ quoththeraven]

Here's an interview with out gay Kpop star Holland mentioned above.

 

http://m.kpopherald.com/view.php?ud=201903221407438322519_2

 

Some excerpts:

Have you ever been treated unfairly or experienced discrimination because of your sexuality?

 

Holland: The agencies I spoke to prior to my debut told me not to disclose it. After I came out and debuted though, that was not an issue anymore. I don’t think I was disadvantaged as far as contract conditions are concerned because I was gay. One thing I find regretful is the terms on which idol contracts are signed in South Korea.

 

They are young people with their own dreams, visions and ideas, which are, in my humble opinion, often overshadowed by their agencies’ opinions which are far more powerful.

 

I had offers from agencies but I knew we were going to clash and people around me who really care for me in the entertainment industry encouraged me to do it on my own. I think I’m too different for the typical entertainment agency system.

 

You funded your debut single and the video and they were of pretty high quality. How did you manage financially?

 

Holland: Honestly, I don’t think my debut single (Neverland) was high quality. I used the money I saved up from working part-time to fund the music video to make it look like as less cheap as possible. I persuaded the filming crew that I want to do something new and the team even lost money and invested in me. I think they found the work fun and interesting.

 

Musically, since I’m a Seoul Institute of the Arts student, I was able to get help from the people I know. I didn’t have professionals to help me with singing or production so I personally think the quality could’ve been better. But I can say that I did my best within my capabilities then so I have no regrets.

 

Your music videos are quite out there. Do you have a say in their making?

 

Holland: Of course. There was no kiss scene at first in the “Neverland” video. But after I heard that a kiss scene (between two men) would give the video an R-rating, I found it ironic and told (the staff) that we need the scene. Secondly, I didn’t want the overall theme to be dark at first. In Korea, the LGBTQ community is portrayed in a dark light and as a social issue. But my romantic experiences have been all bright, young and pretty so I wanted to show that side.

 

“I’m Not Afraid” was more intense than “Neverland” in terms of LGBT representation.

Holland: I realized I need to learn more about LGBTQ issues after my debut. Other than being gay myself, I never had a chance to meet other sexual minority people. I gave a lot of thought to it since a lot of my fans are of various sexualities and orientations and many people felt supported by me. In “I’m Not Afraid,” you see drag queens, people of different races and different gender identities. I wanted to give more exposure to these guys, showing them just mingle together freely.

 

When did you first come out?

Holland: Though my close friends knew it, even my parents didn’t know until I debuted. It wasn’t easy. I still find it difficult. I have no regrets though. My fans help me overcome the hurt from the past especially when I was in school. Even if I don’t experience it first-hand, there are always people somewhere, online comments or the media talking about us (gay people) in a certain way which can be hurtful.

 

What do you think of the gap between K-pop’s gender-neutral aesthetic and its heteronormative narrative?

 

Holland: In my view, same-sex love is fantasized in the K-pop industry but when it comes to addressing the actual issues like coming out, it can be very sensitive and conservative, which is very “ironic.” Then again, I understand the role of (idols) who are meant to be liked by as many people as possible. I tried to see these things positively.

 

[Editorial comment: male idols have male fans too, some of whom are vocal and devoted, so a man yelling "Jimin!" at someone like Park Jimin of BTS or a male fan at a fansign asking if the idol would go on a date (aware that wouldn't actually happen) isn't unusual. The accepted answer to the question about a date is 'sure.']

 

What’s it like living as a gay person in Korea?

 

Holland: I’m currently surrounded by people in the arts, many of whom are from outside of Korea, those who have lived abroad and people familiar with the LGBTQ community. So I don’t get hurt often these days. But still, when I meet new people every day in society as a business representative and think things went well, I still doubt myself when I go home and think, “What would they think of me?” and find myself feeling stressed a bit, which I think is indicative of the hardships I’ve experienced so far. I hope things change for the better.

 

You said your parents didn’t know you were gay in an interview last year. What was it like coming out to them?

 

Holland: My parents love and support me. They are actually really proud of their celebrity son (laughing). They know that I work hard on my own so they trust me. They are deeply in love with each other and living together happily.

 

The MV for his first song, Neverland, is posted above. "I'm Not Afraid" is here:

"I'm So Afraid" is a sequel to "I'm Not Afraid."