Asking for Stats?

[+ freecahill1965]

I'm not quite understanding how knowing someone's size, height, weight or ethnicity helps with safety or liability. Are shorter guys more dangerous than tall guys? Are some races more of a liability than others? Are skinny guys better for business? I'm further confused when you say you don't ask on a phone call because you can hear it in their voice. How is making assumptions common sense? Asking for stats has everything to do with figuring out if you can get it on with someone. You can properly vet a client without asking for his stats. In fact every provider should be screening potential clients. At the very least it should be protocol to ask where the client found you, what are they are looking for in a session, and if there are any special considerations the escort should know about. Both parties need to communicate any expectations before a meeting is set. But asking for physical stats only serves to gauge how bang-able a client is.

For those that stats matter, you are probably correct. We are lucky that our great providers do not ask for such things. This is one reason they are great and allows us to vet from the not so great.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Not only wanting privacy.

 

Many escorts ask clients for their stats. Some escorts even ask a client for a photo (as noted already in a prior post above).

 

Many clients have sensitive high profile jobs/occupations.

 

It is not difficult to foresee damage and embarrassment that could befall a client if proof got out that the client voluntarily released his photo and personal information while "fishing" via a gay sex site.

 

Refusal to furnish such data could be for job or occupation survival.

 

What does privacy have to do with your stats? You are not giving away your social.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Not many but most of us who don't are honest about wanting to be discreet. We are not hypocrites who say we have nothing to hide.

 

That is not what @MikeyGMin said. You do have a talent for mischaracterizations. Of course, "talent" is an euphemism.

[+ José Soplanucas]

This thread is just another example of the never ending tendency to pretend our own personal preferences and standards should be everyone's.

 

If you do not feel comfortable sharing your pictures or stats, do not do it and just move on to the next provider. We can discuss the cons and pros of doing so in different circumstances, but you should not disparage or insult those who do feel comfortable sharing their pictures or stats.

 

If you do feel comfortable sharing your pictures or stats, do it. We can discuss the cons and pros of doing so in different circumstances, but you should not disparage or insult those who do not feel comfortable sharing their pictures or stats.

 

Will we ever learned that we all are different, clients and providers?

[MikeBiDude]

This thread is just another example of the never ending tendency to pretend our own personal preferences and standards should be everyone's.

 

If you do not feel comfortable sharing your pictures or stats, do not do it and just move on to the next provider. We can discuss the cons and pros of doing so in different circumstances, but you should not disparage or insult those who do feel comfortable sharing their pictures or stats.

 

If you do feel comfortable sharing your pictures or stats, do it. We can discuss the cons and pros of doing so in different circumstances, but you should not disparage or insult those who do not feel comfortable sharing their pictures or stats.

 

Will we ever learned that we all are different, clients and providers?

 

Perfect summary.....

[coriolis888]

 

What does privacy have to do with your stats?

 

You are not giving away your social.

 

 

I did not say that stats have to do with privacy even though my post started out that way.

 

My post emphasized a possible vulnerable client furnishing a photo (and other personal identifying information) to an escort in connection with hiring from a male sex site.

 

Of course, if a client furnishes only his stats, there would probably not be a privacy issue. It is the inclusion of a photo that changes the formula.

Edited December 17, 2017 by coriolis888

[P Gren]

Not many but most of us who don't are honest about wanting to be discreet. We are not hypocrites who say we have nothing to hide.

A person can provide basic stats if asked, and remain completely discrete/anonymous.

Edited December 17, 2017 by P Gren

[Strafe13]

If it was obvious to me I wouldn't have asked. We obviously have different ideas about what is obvious. Basic information seems a reasonable and 'obvious' request. A carpenter is going to want a scope of work before taking a job or not - part of professionalism is taking on jobs you can handle and do a good job at.

 

I said it was obvious because in the very post to which you posed your query, the poster explained why he found the stats request off-putting. That you wouldn't find that off-putting is, of course, fine. But the poster's position was nonetheless reasonable and well-articulated. It was also similar to the usual reasons offered by many posters on this issue, since this is not the first time this has come up on this board.

[P Gren]

I said it was obvious because in the very post to which you posed your query, the poster explained why he found the stats request off-putting. That you wouldn't find that off-putting is, of course, fine. But the poster's position was nonetheless reasonable and well-articulated. It was also similar to the usual reasons offered by many posters on this issue, since this is not the first time this has come up on this board.

I was looking for clarification about "this" line of questioning. It was not/is not obvious what exactly he was objecting to.

Edited December 18, 2017 by P Gren

[Strafe13]

I was looking for clarification about "this" line of questioning. It was not/is not obvious what exactly he was objecting to.

 

Seriously? The guy's post was only two sentences long, and the second sentence doesn't make much sense without the first one. In the poster's first sentence, he explained that he hires escorts to fulfill a fantasy of getting a hot guy irrespective of his looks or level of attractiveness. That provides the context for the second sentence, where the poster said that it's off-putting for an escort to request stats, which, essentially, are one of the chief means (along with viewing photos & videos) by which most of us online assess a potential sex partner's looks or level of attractiveness.

 

When read together, the 2 sentences express quite well that an escort's asking for the poster's stats undermines the main reason why he hires them in the first place. Ergo, that's why the poster found the request to be off-putting. It really is that simple. The poster wasn't trying to trick anyone. In fact, his sentiment is so basic and easy to understand, that I find it hard to believe that escorts (irrespective of whatever other good reasons they may have for requesting client's stats) wouldn't be able to anticipate that such requests would make some clients uncomfortable for just this reason. It's long been said on this forum that the best escorts are damn near empathic in their ability to sense and anticipate their clients' feelings and needs. I suspect that the best ones would use this *super power* to either avoid asking for potential clients' stats, or at least be able to clearly explain their reasons in such a way as to ease the clients' fears or feelings of discomfort around the issue.

[P Gren]

Seriously? The guy's post was only two sentences long, and the second sentence doesn't make much sense without the first one. In the poster's first sentence, he explained that he hires escorts to fulfill a fantasy of getting a hot guy irrespective of his looks or level of attractiveness. That provides the context for the second sentence, where the poster said that it's off-putting for an escort to request stats, which, essentially, are one of the chief means (along with viewing photos & videos) by which most of us online assess a potential sex partner's looks or level of attractiveness.

 

When read together, the 2 sentences express quite well that an escort's asking for the poster's stats undermines the main reason why he hires them in the first place. Ergo, that's why the poster found the request to be off-putting. It really is that simple. The poster wasn't trying to trick anyone. In fact, his sentiment is so basic and easy to understand, that I find it hard to believe that escorts (irrespective of whatever other good reasons they may have for requesting client's stats) wouldn't be able to anticipate that such requests would make some clients uncomfortable for just this reason. It's long been said on this forum that the best escorts are damn near empathic in their ability to sense and anticipate their clients' feelings and needs. I suspect that the best ones would use this *super power* to either avoid asking for potential clients' stats, or at least be able to clearly explain their reasons in such a way as to ease the clients' fears or feelings of discomfort around the issue.

You're saying that a guy that is at the more extreme edge of stats .... say 6'3" 120 lbs or 5'6" 350 ... would rather have an in your face reaction (if there is going to be one), than have a reaction from the safety of their home on the other end of a completely anonymous text message?

Edited December 18, 2017 by P Gren

[LADoug1]

One guy's very first response to my initial inquiry was 'age/weight/occupation'.

 

Just like that. Not 'hi, thanks for your inquiry, can I ask what your age/weight/occupation are?' From the ad, it looked like he was looking for a sponsor or a sugar daddy.

 

I wish him good luck establishing a client base.

 

Occupation? MAJOR red flag!

[Strafe13]

You're saying that a guy that is at the more extreme edge of stats .... say 6'3" 120 lbs or 5'6" 350 ... would rather have an in your face reaction (if there is going to be one), than have a reaction from the safety of their home on the other end of a completely anonymous text message?

 

That's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is: 1) the poster you quoted was clear as to why, as a potential client, he found an escort's request for stats to be off-putting; and 2) that because this seems like such an obviously likely trigger for a substantial portion of clientele, that I'm surprised more escorts don't recognize that and (if a client's appearance matters that much to them such that they must ask for stats) at least find a way to broache the subject in a better way.

[P Gren]

That's not at all what I'm saying. All I'm saying is: 1) the poster you quoted was clear as to why, as a potential client, he found an escort's request for stats to be off-putting; and 2) that because this seems like such an obviously likely trigger for a substantial portion of clientele, that I'm surprised more escorts don't recognize that and (if a client's appearance matters that much to them such that they must ask for stats) at least find a way to broache the subject in a better way.

In this case the escort asked for basic stats via text message - anonymity maintained in case there was any adverse reaction. What are you suggesting is a better way, other than asking?

[coriolis888]

 

snip -

 

and (if a client's appearance matters that much to them such that they must ask for stats) at least find a way to broach the subject in a better way.

 

 

Or, the escort can seek a different line of work!

[Gadfly22]

Is it the math? I'm not sending my picture to "all of Rentmen" and Backpage is completely irrelevant. I'm allowing access to my pictures to 5 - 6 guys per year. This forum has had almost 2,000 unique visitors within the last 30 days.

(I believe that number only represents the registered users and not people who just want to browse.)

 

If you think the odds of having a problem with the former is "infinitely more foolish" than the latter, we'll just have to disagree and maybe revisit the topic in a year.

 

Its not the math. In both cases the probability of something untoward happening are unknown and most likely low. I think that the probability that someone who knows you or desires to do you harm is among the 2000 monthly visitors to this website (and far far fewer who would actually notice your profile pic) is less than of something bad happening by sending your pic to one of the more than 1000 guys on RM, where the % of wackos is higher (my opinion of course can't prove it).

As far as revisiting in a year - we could but I think the seat belt analogy applies. One could drive every day of one's adult life w/o wearing a seat belt and quite easily suffer no dire consequence. Doesn't make it advisable. (I know I know not a great analogy but decent. If I think of a better one later I'll edit this post.)

[Strafe13]

In this case the escort asked for basic stats via text message - anonymity maintained in case there was any adverse reaction. What are you suggesting is a better way, other than asking?

 

I've never suggested anything, nor was that the point of my response to your initial post. I've said that the best escorts have a super empathic power of sorts, and that I'm surprised more of them haven't utilized it to either avoid asking for stats or find a more diplomatic and sensitive way to seek such info. I never claimed to have that power.

 

By analogy, I recently met with a new escort in LA who has a policy to request a deposit from new clients, as well as a brief telephone conversation. I was uncomfortable with the deposit, but he capably explained his reasoning behind the policy in texts, and then I was so reassured after we spoke on the phone, that I went ahead with the appointment and had a fabulous time. This guy knew how to address my concerns and ease my fears over a policy for which I had pretty strong reservations. That's a top quality escort.

[Gadfly22]

That is not what @MikeyGMin said. You do have a talent for mischaracterizations. Of course, "talent" is an euphemism.

 

If you are going to criticize me at least have the decency not to mangle our beautiful language. It is a euphemism not an euphemism. See the link below for further explanation.

 

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/a-before-consonants-and-an-before-vowels-is-not-the-rule

 

You also misuse the term. A euphemism is a milder or vaguer substitute for an offensive word, not the exact opposite. To denote sarcasm or an opposite meaning in print one uses quotation marks, which you did but you put them in the wrong place. Next time say: You do have a "talent" for mischaracterization.

A little disappointed in you buddy. Your posts are usually so articulate/informative/witty but I guess even the best have a bad day now and then.

[P Gren]

I've never suggested anything, nor was that the point of my response to your initial post. I've said that the best escorts have a super empathic power of sorts, and that I'm surprised more of them haven't utilized it to either avoid asking for stats or find a more diplomatic and sensitive way to seek such info. I never claimed to have that power.

You could try

[Strafe13]

You could try

 

I'm not an escort, so my opinion on how to best approach clients on a sensitive issue is of limited value. This is the Ask An Escort section of the forum. I imagine that there are several professionals who participate here who could satisfy your request for suggestions on how to best deal with the issue.

 

P.S., I think I did my part by offering my personal experience with an escort who did offer a better way to address a vetting procedure that is likely to cause clients to feel uncomfortable.

[Strafe13]

You've mostly be lecturey and you already know that

 

It looks to me like you're being intentionally provocative, and that you were unnecessarily insensitive and dismissive of that poster's expression of why he gets uncomfortable when escorts ask him for stats. Then you caught an attitude when I pointed out that there was nothing wrong with that poster's post, and that he explained himself well enough. You've since changed the goal posts by claiming that I was saying something that I never said, or even intimated. Then, to top it off, you ignored my offer of my own personal example of how a really good escort managed my fears, which I presented in a good faith effort to move the discussion forward by moving past mere criticism to show a constructive example. You instead responded by saying that I, a client, "could try" to suggest how escorts should best deal with their clients' fears and anxieties. That was completely disingenuous, and you already know that.

 

You've consistently demonstrated that on this thread at least, you're primarily interested in making passive-aggressive, insulting comments towards your fellow forum members, rather than engaging with us in good faith. That's unfortunate, and I wish that you hadn't reacted so negatively to my defending of that poster. What you characterized as "lecturey," was actually my diplomatic effort to refrain from criticizing your posts more directly, by using harsher language, because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that you took it that way. Have a good night, sir.

[+ José Soplanucas]

If you are going to criticize me at least have the decency not to mangle our beautiful language. It is a euphemism not an euphemism. See the link below for further explanation.

 

http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/a-before-consonants-and-an-before-vowels-is-not-the-rule

 

You also misuse the term. A euphemism is a milder or vaguer substitute for an offensive word, not the exact opposite. To denote sarcasm or an opposite meaning in print one uses quotation marks, which you did but you put them in the wrong place. Next time say: You do have a "talent" for mischaracterization.

A little disappointed in you buddy. Your posts are usually so articulate/informative/witty but I guess even the best have a bad day now and then.

 

Thank you for the English lesson. My point remains.

[P Gren]

It looks to me like you're being intentionally provocative, and that you were unnecessarily insensitive and dismissive of that poster's expression of why he gets uncomfortable when escorts ask him for stats. Then you caught an attitude when I pointed out that there was nothing wrong with that poster's post, and that he explained himself well enough. You've since changed the goal posts by claiming that I was saying something that I never said, or even intimated. Then, to top it off, you ignored my offer of my own personal example of how a really good escort managed my fears, which I presented in a good faith effort to move the discussion forward by moving past mere criticism to show a constructive example. You instead responded by saying that I, a client, "could try" to suggest how escorts should best deal with their clients' fears and anxieties. That was completely disingenuous, and you already know that.

 

You've consistently demonstrated that on this thread at least, you're primarily interested in making passive-aggressive, insulting comments towards your fellow forum members, rather than engaging with us in good faith. That's unfortunate, and I wish that you hadn't reacted so negatively to my defending of that poster. What you characterized as "lecturey," was actually my diplomatic effort to refrain from criticizing your posts more directly, by using harsher language, because I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that you took it that way. Have a good night, sir.

If someone doesn't want to be asked about stats or for a pic, tell the escort that in the first message and prevent the request in the first place. It isn't reasonable to expect - as an industry norm - to never be asked for basic stats through anonymous text messages.

Edited December 20, 2017 by P Gren

[Gadfly22]

Thank you for the English lesson. My point remains.

 

Still wrong but at least mildly amusing after my correction.

[Strafe13]

If someone doesn't want to be asked about stats or for a pic, tell the escort that in the first message and prevent the request in the first place. It isn't reasonable to expect - as an industry norm - to never ask for basic stats through anonymous text messages.

 

That makes more sense in private dating, but when dealing with a purportedly professional escort, I think most of us expect a far higher level of customer service. Can't these guys save that drama for Grindr, Scruff, or the other regular dating/hookup apps and websites? Who the heck is trying to deal with that mess when hiring? For so many of us, the whole point of hiring is to be able to avoid all of that drama.

 

In any event, as I suggested during our private conversation, this need to ascertain the client's level of attractiveness is the escort's issue, and not the client's. I therefore think that while some clients can follow your advice, the service provider should be the one to say clearly in his ad that he'll be requesting pics and/or stats during the initial text or e-mail conversations. That way, the clients who don't like that can avoid this entire drama at the beginning by just contacting those escorts who don't have such limitations.

 

As an aside, this issue strikes me as if it evinces a bit of a generational shift. Although I'm probably one of the younger client-contributors on this forum, I've been on it and the predecessor site since the very early 2000s. It seems to me that historically, the most highly regarded escorts typically didn't engage in this parsing of clients, but instead treated their M4M escorting business as open to all guys so long as the basic hygiene and safety requirements were meet. I get the impression that this newer generation of escorts comes to the table with an entirely different set of expectations and business practices. I'm not certain yet whether that's good or bad as a whole, but change is constant, as the saying goes.