Like a phoenix rising from the ashes

[+ José Soplanucas]

Further, what makes them think a session that the escort knows will be reviewed would be at all indicative of his typical performance? Shouldn't a trustworthy review be conducted without the escort being forewarned?

 

Kevin Slater

 

Indeed. I fail there some times. The guys I hire from here or from Rentmen know that I am a reviewer. The guys from Adam have no idea.

There is a way to fix this issue in Rentmen, you can choose that the reviews do not show up in your profile. However I think they are important to give me credibility as I do ask many questions before closing a deal.

See @Tarte Gogo ? I am not an angel, I have a clear conflict of principles here.

I guess that even when it is clear that I am a reviewer, the promise of a review is never part of the conversation.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Then I suppose you believe actors and actresses should be paid for their auditions?

 

Hairdressers need to do a free haircut, sometimes 2 haircuts in a try-out for a salon. Make-up artists often have to work for free, doing a trial run, before being hired. Same with facialists in a spa. In television, interns can work for free up to a year before being offered a job. Many don't receive offers when their internship ends. Photographers often have to work for free if they want to shoot editorial for a magazine. Cooks have to work for free before being hired in a restaurant. And on and on it goes. You may not think it's right or fair, but this is the reality for a lot of people who provide a service.

 

Comparing the endorsement of rentboy.pro to Michelin seems a bit of a stretch. The Michelin Guide for dining was created in 1926 by the two brothers who started the tire company in 1889. Michelin's story is interesting. Perhaps there's room for some famous name to put his mark on a reliable escort rating institution, but I won't be holding any breath.

 

I agree that shade will be a problem to overcome. Smart, determined people can overcome the need to work in the shade if their idea is worth pursuing. Time will tell if these guys have the stuff.

 

Still, Skype is a valid option for verification. It's not easy to fake a Skype call.

 

I guess it is not easy to accept that you have been abusing those men, but that is what you have done.

[+ Tarte Gogo]

See @Tarte Gogo ? I am not an angel, I have a clear conflict of principles here.

I guess that even when it is clear that I am a reviewer, the promise of a review is never part of the conversation.

The best would be for escorts to assume we are all reviewing. And no one has a “special reviewing status” as these Rentboy.pro guys want. Then we are back on equal footing.

[+ Keith30309]

Hypothetically, I think there is absolutely an opportunity for another listing service in the market – one that improves on the RM model and, at the same time, shifts a bit more of its revenue source to the client side with refined tiers of service. I have limited insight into the provider-side perception of RM’s issues but one obvious one is the lack of verification of clients – similar to the client verifications baked into TER. I do think that the legal ice begins to get thin for these value-adds because at some point you’ve gone past the ‘listing service’ business and into the ‘facilation’ business.

 

 

From the client side, the biggest problem is provider verification; most don’t even trust the RM “ID-verified, photo-verified” profiles completely and RM hasn’t done anything to improve that with its indifferent treatment of fake-profile reports (though it’s understandable with the revenue heavily weighted on the provider-side). A business model that included reliable verifications would be worth a premium; potential reliable verifications on both sides of the equation would be a double-win without risk of ‘facilitating’. Secondly, the RM ‘reviews’ are virtually pointless because there’s no verification and normalization (to account for personal preferences) on the client side. Conversely, on TER the reviews carry some real weight are generally considered to be trustworthy because the authors are vetted to an extent.

 

 

I think the ‘endorsement’ idea (and the ‘free sample’ notion) are gimmicks and would cause more harm than good to the operator; I smell these as bullshit from a mile away. The measure of success of a meeting is completely subjective – five people will have five opinions – and even the basics of Professionalism are subject to personal interpretation. Some fundamental questions do apply broadly: “Was he on time”, “was the communication clear and complete”, “was he focused (and everything implicit in that)”, “was the in-call location client-friendly”, “were the basic standards of hygiene met”, etc., but even interpretations of these vary. The best idea I’ve heard is something lots of guys already do - the inclusion in profile of a brief G-rated introductory video – but add the ability for a potential client to pay a small fee – say $0.99, split between the listing service and the provider – to see additional content to make up his mind on a provider. Hypothetically, If I’m investing $500 in a meeting then I’m very willing to spend $5 to narrow my choices down to someone who matches my preferences. Clients accustomed to browsing dozens of videos will howl but serious clients would pay it and a provider would be more assured of their seriousness. Clients who don’t want to pay don’t have to and take their chances if they are in doubt. It’s a tiny investment and doesn’t have the downside of a deposit.

 

 

I think the end result of all this would be a natural tiering of providers into 1) the real professionals who understand their business, 2) the legit semi-professionals who sort of get it and are trying, and, 3) everybody else.

 

There’s lots of wildcards in this – the legal part, social media and ownership of content and trustworthiness of client’s confidentiality are some – but if nothing else, another listing service would benefit both clients and providers as a RM alternative.

 

Hypothetically.

[MikeBiDude]

Hairdressers need to do a free haircut, sometimes 2 haircuts in a try-out for a salon. Make-up artists often have to work for free, doing a trial run, before being hired. Same with facialists in a spa. In television, interns can work for free up to a year before being offered a job. Many don't receive offers when their internship ends. Photographers often have to work for free if they want to shoot editorial for a magazine. Cooks have to work for free before being hired in a restaurant. And on and on it goes. You may not think it's right or fair, but this is the reality for a lot of people who provide a service.

I would like to know what each state’s labor commissioner (or equivalent in your state) would say to all these if a prospective employee/hire complained.

 

I’d also be interested in how I can get a free cook at one of my businesses before I have to pay him. My state labor law would look unkindly on me....and many of your other examples as well.

[MikeBiDude]

I guess it is not easy to accept that you have been abusing those men, but that is what you have done.

+1

[rogerG]

Well, you do whatever unfairness you like, I am no CHEAPO.

LOL. I'm sure you sleep better now. The examples I posted have nothing to do with me. I don't control the rules of auditioning for a service job. I did not own the spa business, I was an employee. I did plenty of work for "free" as part of my job. Nobody was abused more than I was. The more you get paid in the service business, the more abuse you have to take. That's why I'm long gone. LOL.

 

The only false equivalency here is rentboy.pro is not auditioning escorts for a "job." They're offering an audition for a review rating/professional verification. It seems to me they're trying to find a new way to offer more honest, reliable reviews and put an end to the fake guys and fake ads. I'm not convinced the idea can work in its present form, but I do find it bold and interesting. I like business people who think outside of the box.

 

How does a website that offers reviews prevent other escorts/clients from writing fake reviews? How does a website like rentboy.pro create an opportunity for honest, reliable reviews? Some of you guys are so quick to be negative, but no one has offered a trustworthy solution to the fake review/fake ad problem in all the years I've been reading this site.

 

If a website is going to respect anonymity, it's pretty darn impossible to come up with a good solution to the fake review/fake ad problem. I say, if the rentboy.pro owners can create/build a Hooboy type leader/status symbol, someone who has or can acquire the trust of the "community," this idea could work. It won't be perfect, but it could be as close as you can get.

 

To be sure, if this idea does work, there will be plenty of people who rally against it. There are plenty of folks in this business who don't want to see fake reviews end.

In civilised countries, that is actually illegal.

Write your congressman or your "dear leader," wherever you live.

I guess it is not easy to accept that you have been abusing those men, but that is what you have done.

Say what? Not sure what world you live in, but I suggest you stay there. I haven't worked in the spa business for over 20 years. Carry on with your fantasies.

The only reason we're even discussing this one is because they co-opted the rentboy name and font.

The power and allure that "boy" has over "men" in the gay male escort business. This is going to be fun to watch.

[ChristianCronin]

AS FOR THE SAMPLE SESSION: Here's what they sent me after I opted to give a sample.

 

Thank you for joining us and your Approval request! Actually one of our crew members has already met you as a "renter" in NYC not long ago. We added "Approved by meeting" sign to your profile. The man who met you will write a nice comment soon. We also added your profile to "Most active" section. Stay in touch!

King Regards,

Rentboy.pro team

I see many of the escorts on the site have already been "approved by meeting" and they have a rather generic review about how real their photos are and they're the real deal and blah blah blah blah....I'm still doing my research though!

[rogerG]

Good for you, Christian Cronin. It doesn't look to me like anyone was trying to steal a freebie from you. LOL.

 

I don't think it would be fair to expect porn-style reviews, like the ones many on this site prefer. It seems to me, their "review" is going to be more like an "endorsement" or professional "verification," intended to give customers confidence that you are a true professional and you are the real deal. Many of us who hire from escort websites don't need to read anything more than that.

 

Now, if you fuck over a client (just as an example), and a customer complains to rentboy.pro, it will be interesting to see how they plan to handle that.

Edited October 9, 2017 by rogerG

[+ Tarte Gogo]

Some of you guys are so quick to be negative, but no one has offered a trustworthy solution to the fake review/fake ad problem in all the years I've been reading this site.

We do have a solution: An independent review system, like here, where the reviewers have to show clean hands. Plus tips to each other in forums.

 

I haven’t had a single fake escort experience since I am back renting.

So it must be working.

 

Adding 4 guys who claim the right to fuck escorts for free is not going to add any extra value.

[rogerG]

We do have a solution: An independent review system, like here, where the reviewers have to show clean hands.

LOL. Nice try.

 

Adding 4 guys who claim the right to fuck escorts for free is not going to add any extra value.

So far, your characterization appears to be a false one. Your negativity and cynicism are well documented. Time will tell. Let's see how long it takes for certain escorts to sign up.

[+ Tarte Gogo]

Your negativity and cynicism is well documented.

Oh no my escorts know I am a very happy fellow.

[rogerG]

my escorts

Interesting use of words. I wonder how your escorts feel about being owned.

[+ José Soplanucas]

.

 

Say what? Not sure what world you live in, but I suggest you stay there. I haven't worked in the spa business for over 20 years. Carry on with your fantasies.

 

If you know that in the spa business abusive practices are regular, I believe you. If you yourself have been abusive regularly and you share that here, I believe you. I am not arguing that.

Now, if you think those practices are not abusive, you are the one who lives in a fantasy world.

[+ Tarte Gogo]

Interesting use of words. I wonder how your escorts feel about being owned.

I am pretty sure You say “my hairdresser”, “my cleaner”, “my co workers” and “my boss” and yet would never think that you own them.

 

I am going to press the ignore button on your profile now, since it is obvious you are an intellectually-dishonest person.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Tarte Gogo

[rogerG]

if you think those practices are not abusive, you are the one who lives in a fantasy world.

It doesn't matter what I think. Business owners don't care about my definition of abuse. If you want to talk about abuse, you should try to understand what writers have to go through to get their work published and then what they have to go through to get paid for the work. At some point, most professional writers have to do all the work first and then shop it around before there's any hope of getting paid. Often, there are no buyers. And if there is a buyer, I won't even mention the abusive negotiation that takes place to determine how much the work is worth.

 

I honestly don't know what world some of you guys live in. I'm frankly surprised by how Pollyanna and uninformed some of you are.

I am going to press the ignore button on your profile now.

You do that. I'm sure it'll make you feel better.

Edited October 9, 2017 by rogerG

[+ José Soplanucas]

It doesn't matter what I think. Business owners don't care about my definition of abuse. If you want to talk about abuse, you should try to understand what writers have to go through to get their work published and then what they have to go through to get paid for the work. At some point, most professional writers have to do all the work first and then shop it around before there's any hope of getting paid. Often, there are no buyers. And if there is a buyer, I won't even mention the abusive negotiation that takes place to determine how much the work is worth.

 

I honestly don't know what world some of you guys live in. I'm frankly surprised by how Pollyanna and uninformed some of you are.

 

You do that. I'm sure it'll make you feel better.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8onjqeg7R1qddjbb.gif

[rogerG]

It's too bad we can't ask how much abuse Tina Fey has endured in her career as a writer. How many hours she had to work for free in order to get noticed or get paid. Obviously, people can overcome the abuse and become very successful, if they play their cards right.

[Kevin Slater]

Hypothetically, I think there is absolutely an opportunity for another listing service in the market – one that improves on the RM model and, at the same time, shifts a bit more of its revenue source to the client side with refined tiers of service.

 

That's actually one of my biggest beefs with rentmen, that they try to extract revenue from clients as well as escorts. I think escorts themselves should bear the full cost of advertising their wares.

 

Kevin Slater

[+ Tarte Gogo]

That's actually one of my biggest beefs with rentmen, that they try to extract revenue from clients as well as escorts. I think escorts themselves should bear the full cost of advertising their wares.

 

Kevin Slater

Oh I never thought about this.

 

Well, true they take our money (if we let them), but at least we don’t get fucked to be allowed to see an escort’s video. :-)

[+ Keith30309]

That's actually one of my biggest beefs with rentmen, that they try to extract revenue from clients as well as escorts. I think escorts themselves should bear the full cost of advertising their wares.

 

Kevin Slater

I understand. I was really thinking about it from a business model perspective: identifying all the potential revenue sources and leveraging your biggest asset - content - in every way possible so as to leave no dollar left laying on the table.

For example videos. My twitter is blowing up with Onlyfans tweets... why not make some of that paid content available on an escort listing site. There’s a natural synergy there.

As a client I’d love to get everything for free but I’m willing to pay a little for a differentiated service.

As an escort why wouldn’t you want to open another revenue channel and, at the same time, put annoying picture collectors behind a paywall.

 

It’s not personal. It’s strictly business.

[rogerG]

If I remember correctly, Rentmen took some time to build a following. Their acceptance was not immediate. They seemed to be OK with slow growth. Longtime users hated the newest version of Rentboy, but they weren't willing to vacate the premier escort site in droves. Only when Rentboy folded did the droves go over to Rentmen. There wasn't much choice.

 

If the owners of rentboy.pro are serious about their claim, "we are not going to charge potential renters," they could make mincemeat of rentmen's business model. Certainly, with a former "rentboy co-creator" on the team, someone with first-hand knowledge of Jeffrey Hurant's greed could provide important lessons on what to avoid in this new venture. Having a former co-creator of rentmen on board can't hurt either.

 

If there's one thing we know about the rentboy.com fiasco, there's plenty of money to be made at this game. If you're not careful how you play the greed card, you can lose.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Their data base is going pretty fast. I checked the website when this thread was open and then had ads only doe DC and NYC. I just checked it again, and not only those two locations have considerably multiplied the number of advertisers, but also there are escorts publishing in Miami, Los Angeles, Frisco, both Portland, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta. I did not check more locations, but if they are serious it looks like they will be ready for prime time pretty soon.

[rogerG]

Escorts should take notice: that offer of a free, lifetime membership is not going to last forever. Free ad hosting on a popular website could save you thousands of dollars into the future. Unless the new owners of rentboy.pro are fakes, frauds, and assholes - which we shall find out soon enough - what is there to lose by grabbing your free membership while you can?

[+ quoththeraven]

Greed was the downfall of Rentboy? Funny, I thought it was hubris.