HIV

[Lab12]

I don't know if this has been discussed here before but lets say by virtue of your profession you know an escort/adult is definitely HIV + but lists safe/bb; ask me on rentmen. Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it? I know for sure there people who will not ask but still opt for unprotected ask without thinking twice. what do you guys think?

[Cliff]

Be smart. Just assume that any escort (or any person period, for that matter) you have sex with is HIV pos. Even with the people that publicly or privately say they are not positive. Then practice safer sex. Isn't that way of thinking more realistic than deciding which people to believe?

[caliguy]

Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it?

In this scenario then yes. They should. However, if you're someone who bases your sexual decision by what people tell you then you're an idiot. That or you just want to BB yourself. I've found the later to be the majority of cases when people make a big deal out of it instead of just making sure to take care of themselves.

[LookingAround]

https://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2017/9/19/when-there-zero-risk-transmitting-hiv?utm_source=ADVFB&utm_medium=ORG

[KennF]

I don't know if this has been discussed here before but lets say by virtue of your profession you know an escort/adult is definitely HIV + but lists safe/bb; ask me on rentmen. Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it? I know for sure there people who will not ask but still opt for unprotected ask without thinking twice. what do you guys think?

 

Don't shift the burden of responsibility. You, and only you, are responsible for your health. It isn't their responsibility to protect you from HIV, or any other STD. Guys can be play safer and HIV+.

 

I think it is wrong to required anyone to openly advertise their health condition(s). It perpetuates a stereotype. HIV doesn't define a person.

 

If they are listing Ask Me, then go ahead and ask.

[marylander1940]

I don't know if this has been discussed here before but lets say by virtue of your profession you know an escort/adult is definitely HIV + but lists safe/bb; ask me on rentmen. Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it? I know for sure there people who will not ask but still opt for unprotected ask without thinking twice. what do you guys think?

 

yes, but would you hire an escort who tells you his Hiv +?

[Lab12]

I agree with you guys the onus falls on the customer to ensure his safety and yes HIV does not define a person hence one should not be legally required to divulge their health status to a client but don't you guys think there is a moral requirement to assume that every client he does business with is HIV- hence the need to say hey safe sex only.

how many times have we not been smitten with an escorts looks and body so much so that we lose every sense of reason and just think with our little head and just go to town on a dick or an arse without thinking about these things.

 

In this particular case I only know this about this escort/adult film actor because when i worked in infectious diseases I advise him to test for HIV based on some symptoms he presented to the hospital and it came back positive and eventually got him on treatment, but this was about 3 years ago and at the time he was not a porn performer and escort.

[Lab12]

yes, but would you hire an escort who tells you his Hiv +?

I have before, but I am on prep and used protection.

[marylander1940]

I have before, but I on prep and used protection.

 

if that's the case does it really matter (to you) if you're hiring a guy with HIV?

[Lab12]

if that's the case does it really matter (to you) if you're hiring a guy with HIV?

I am pretty sure you are missing the point here. This is not about me. I am still a part of a minority of gay men on prep and part of a minority of gay men who insist on safe sex no matter what. But again this is not about what i think, I am more interested in what you guys think. Does an escort have a moral obligation, knowing his HIV status, to inform his clients about his status or to only advertise safe sex. I have no opinion about it frankly I just want to know what my more seasoned and experienced gay men on this forum think.

[KennF]

but don't you guys think there is a moral requirement to assume that every client he does business with is HIV- hence the need to say hey safe sex only.

 

No I don't think he has a moral requirement to do that. I understand your point of view is the opposite, however, that shifts the responsibility and creates the very stigma that the ADA was designed to prevent. Now, ADA can't protect this industry due to the cultural taboos of sex. However, the same reasoning that created it, applies here.

 

This is not about me.

I have no opinion about it

 

I think you do have an opinion. If you had no opinion, you wouldn't have noted it and started the thread.

I also think you are projecting your moral standard upon this provider and that is the stigma that made people with HIV second class citizens.

 

I wish we were enlightened enough that we see the people, instead of the disease or label. But, we're not there yet.

 

 

Does an escort have a moral obligation, knowing his HIV status, to inform his clients about his status or to only advertise safe sex

 

Not a moral obligation. However, as a business man, he should want repeat customers/clients. From a business perspective, you want your client happy. Should the virus be transmitted, you can be assured that the client will not be happy. Also, it isn't his responsibility to take himself off the market or limit his clients for the betterment of society. Let's face it, society has been trying to kill this industry for decades.

 

So, no I would not expect him to treat every client as HIV-. It would hurt his marketing and appeal. However, at some point, everyone engaging in sex should discuss medical conditions relevant to the situation.

[MikeyGMin]

Does an escort have a moral obligation, knowing his HIV status, to inform his clients about his status or to only advertise safe sex.

Those are two separate questions.

 

I know there are guys here who vehemently disagree, including a couple of the escorts, but I don't think he has any moral obligation at all to disclose his status.

 

I think he should stick to condoms unless he is willing to disclose (one-on-one) his status so the client can make an informed decision. In a perfect world, he would advertise safe sex only and then discuss it with a client who was asking him to do anything else. But it's not a perfect world and that takes us squarely back to the burden being placed on the client who is requesting such action.

[guy69er]

https://www.advocate.com/current-issue/2017/9/19/when-there-zero-risk-transmitting-hiv?utm_source=ADVFB&utm_medium=ORG

 

This is an important point that I think most people miss, or may not be aware of. If the person in question is known to have HIV but successfully on treatment, and therefore presumably "undetectable," they likely pose less risk of infection to clients than an escort who is HIV- that gets tested "regularly" but is not taking PReP.

 

As others have stated, a man's health is his own responsibility, and choosing to engage in risky sexual activities cannot be blamed on an escort who may or may not be aware of their own health status, whether HIV or various other nasty bugs they may be infected with.

 

Personally, I'd feel less safe fucking someone who hasn't been tested in the past several months than I would with someone who is HIV+ but undetectable.

[marylander1940]

I am pretty sure you are missing the point here. This is not about me. I am still a part of a minority of gay men on prep and part of a minority of gay men who insist on safe sex no matter what. But again this is not about what i think, I am more interested in what you guys think. Does an escort have a moral obligation, knowing his HIV status, to inform his clients about his status or to only advertise safe sex. I have no opinion about it frankly I just want to know what my more seasoned and experienced gay men on this forum think.

 

I'm not missing the point but we've talked about this SO many times...

 

Now I'm on PrEP, Before it was available I would assume everybody else in the world was positive but me.

 

Some escorts lie about many things to promote themselves (age, stats, background, even ethnicity and country of origin) or they do it to remain private.

 

I don't know how many guys would hire an escort who has HIV and I'm sure some of them (escorts) might hide it just because is good for business.

[Lab12]

I think the recurring theme in all the responses is that the escort is under no obligation whatsoever to divulge such information to his clients.

[Brutus]

Yes, I think so, especially if the client has specifically asked for bb.

[LaffingBear]

...an escort/adult is definitely HIV + but lists safe/bb; ask me on rentmen. Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it?

I apply a bizarre, non-linear form of logic in this matter.

 

Im going to behave as if any partner is positive, regardless of what they say. Therefore, I dont care about what an escort SHOULD say. Furthermore, even an honest escort may not know about every bug, or depending on testing intervals.

 

So, I dont care what they say. And so, they have no obligation to report their status, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I know thats convoluted logic. And, of couse I'd like to believe every escort is honest about every attribute..... but thats a whole other thread.

[Lab12]

No I don't think he has a moral requirement to do that. I understand your point of view is the opposite, however, that shifts the responsibility and creates the very stigma that the ADA was designed to prevent. Now, ADA can't protect this industry due to the cultural taboos of sex. However, the same reasoning that created it, applies here.

 

 

 

 

I think you do have an opinion. If you had no opinion, you wouldn't have noted it and started the thread.

I also think you are projecting your moral standard upon this provider and that is the stigma that made people with HIV second class citizens.

 

I wish we were enlightened enough that we see the people, instead of the disease or label. But, we're not there yet.

 

 

 

 

Not a moral obligation. However, as a business man, he should want repeat customers/clients. From a business perspective, you want your client happy. Should the virus be transmitted, you can be assured that the client will not be happy. Also, it isn't his responsibility to take himself off the market or limit his clients for the betterment of society. Let's face it, society has been trying to kill this industry for decades.

 

So, no I would not expect him to treat every client as HIV-. It would hurt his marketing and appeal. However, at some point, everyone engaging in sex should discuss medical conditions relevant to the situation.

 

I have to admit for me someone like me, it is very difficult for me to see people and situations without necessarily thinking of disease processes, exposures and so on. it is a habit i need to work on seriously.

 

not having an opinion about it just meant that i had internally debated it both ways thus I wanted to know what others thought.

 

I am a total slut with no moral standards lol

[LaffingBear]

I am a total slut with no moral standards lol

Dont be so hard on yourself.

 

No moral standards may qualify you for a GOP leadership position, or even the Presidency.

[+ WmClarke]

I am a total slut with no moral standards lol

Welcome to the club!

[MassageDrew]

I don't care if they are undetectable. They still need to tell clients about the condition. I know a couple of friends who are and they are not escorts. They feel that they shouldn't have to say anything unless it gets serious, the relationship I mean. I disagree. That's setting up the guy on the other end for a major disappointment or heartache if he can't accept that.

[+ oldNbusted]

I don't care if they are undetectable. They still need to tell clients about the condition. I know a couple of friends who are and they are not escorts. They feel that they shouldn't have to say anything unless it gets serious, the relationship I mean. I disagree. That's setting up the guy on the other end for a major disappointment or heartache if he can't accept that.

 

 

To play the devil's advocate, why is this on the poz guy? If something is a dealbreaker for someone, why isn't it on them to be up front about that?

 

 

yes, but would you hire an escort who tells you his Hiv +?

 

Yes. I've also dated guys I knew to be poz.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I don't know if this has been discussed here before but lets say by virtue of your profession you know an escort/adult is definitely HIV + but lists safe/bb; ask me on rentmen. Do you guys think an escort is obliged to inform a customer about his HIV status without being asked about it? I know for sure there people who will not ask but still opt for unprotected ask without thinking twice. what do you guys think?

 

It does not matter whether we are talking about an escort or a regular hook up. No one has the right to ask that question. Your status is as private as your SSN, and if someone asks me I would respond him to fucking mind of his own business.

 

Don't shift the burden of responsibility. You, and only you, are responsible for your health. It isn't their responsibility to protect you from HIV, or any other STD. Guys can be play safer and HIV+.

 

I think it is wrong to required anyone to openly advertise their health condition(s). It perpetuates a stereotype. HIV doesn't define a person.

 

If they are listing Ask Me, then go ahead and ask.

 

+1

I like what you wrote, but you do not go far enough. No one should feel like having the right to ask. Only your doctor.

 

yes, but would you hire an escort who tells you his Hiv +?

 

Hell yes. I would hire him if I find him attractive and I think he can provide a satisfying service.

 

It does bother me a lot the stigmatization Poz friends have to suffer. We are in the 21st century and still have to put up with medieval thinking. Disgusting.

[MassageDrew]

To play the devil's advocate, why is this on the poz guy? If something is a dealbreaker for someone, why isn't it on them to be up front about that?

 

Point taken and it may not be a big deal to some. To others it is. I mean most guys who claim to be DDF expect to find someone similar. I always give my stats when replying and indicate that I'm DDF. Some escorts don't really state their status so I'm at their mercy to be upfront about it when replying back. I don't think I have to spell it out to them that I'm also looking for a DDF escort.

[MikeyGMin]

I always give my stats when replying and indicate that I'm DDF.

...and tell me again why you should be believed? Not by me of course, but by an escort or a hookup.

 

If a stranger says that he has poz, I would believe him. (And I would still hook up with him.) Stating that you are "DDF" has become so ubiquitous, and so unprovable and unknowable (unless you've been completely celibate since your last full battery of tests), that I didn't think anyone took it seriously anymore.

 

I would much rather hear that someone is on PreP. Not because it's a license to do whatever we want however we want, but it's much more believable.