In a real quandary!

[N13]

Reading @Unicorn's thread, Should any manners be expected when receiving gifts? brought up a quandary that has been bothering me for the last 5 years.

My God-daughter (who I truly love and think loves me) borrowed $7,000 from me to help her pay her daughter's college tuition. I checked with my husband and we agreed to lend it based upon her promise to pay it back as soon as her house sold.

The house sold (apparently not for as much as she thought it would) but we heard nothing. In the meantime she made a few trips to the East coast to visit her daughter in school and then to her graduation to which I was invited but did not go. She is able to fly cheaply because of a close relative working for the airlines. But I am sure there were costs involved. She said nothing about the money. She even came East (she is on the West coast) for a large party I had on a special birthday.

 

After three years I approached her and told her that we were concerned that no effort had been made to explain or pay back any of the loan. She was chagrined but did nothing about it.

 

She and her new husband have a young (10 year old) that they are grooming for the Olympics (not a cheap thing!) and I find I am resenting it. Just last week I received an email from the son asking if I would help his school fund their programs. I ignored it. I feel his mother would have had to give him my email and would have known what it was about.

 

Two years later we have removed her as a beneficiary of our wills. I feel terrible about this. But I also feel used. I can not bring myself to mention it to her again. I have even thought of just forgetting about it but my husband is, rightfully, upset.

 

Suggestions?

[+ azdr0710]

when you made the original loan, was it entirely clear to HER that she did have to pay it back?.....

 

loans among family members are always touchy......

[+ Funguy]

This IS a quandary.

People say don't lend unless you can afford to lose it. True, but that only has to do with your ability to lend the money.

The recipient has to be part of the equation, even if he or she is a negative.

You've made the effort to collect and I think you have been generous in not pursuing this more than you indicate. The only thing left would have been to tell her she is no longer in the will but that's petty; removing her is fine.

Your husband is, as you say, rightfully upset but there's not much else to do.

If you are close to the daughter, don't hold it against her unless you know that she knows the whole story.

[LaffingBear]

Should any manners be EXPECTED? In any situation? I wish the answer was yes, but I think we've moved into an age lacking civility.

• People dont acknowledge gifts
  
• People dont acknowledge correspondence
  
• Children see a man drowning man, laugh, and record it rather than call for help
  
• People know no bounds for when and where not to use cellphones.
  
• The President - our #1 diplomat - says astonishingly offensive things
  

And so, I think its an era where manners, or basic civility, are a pleasant occurrence. Still very prevalent, because its basic human nature. But Ive shifted away from expecting manners.

[jjkrkwood]

What I have learned over the years is that if you decide to Loan money to someone, whether it be a friend, relative or casual acquaintance, DONT EXPECT TO GET IT BACK, regardless if the original agreement was that the money needed to be paid back. That is the one small detail that the borrower always seems to dismiss. I lent a former boss, who I believed became my close friend about 57K, with the understanding that the money needed to be paid back once her second home Sold. YES, there was a Promisory Note. Needless to say, the sale never happened and the money never repaid, but Karma intervened and she ended up dying, but only after our friendship was shattered, she wished Cancer on me and told me to go fuck myself when I asked for repayment. So, my words to live by now are "if you need money, Go to a Fucking Bank".....

 

Do you realize how many escorts I could have hired for 57K ????

[LoveNDino]

Should any manners be EXPECTED? In any situation? I wish the answer was yes, but I think we've moved into an age lacking civility.

• People know no bounds for when and where not to use cellphones.
  

Is it too much to ask? Last week, I was on the treadmill at the gym, listening to a podcast I particularly like, and a woman was on the phone, speaking at a volume that my iPhone can't just drown out. Yesterday, the woman behind me on the line was speaking to her grandma and grandpa, and it was sweet, but I didn't need to know their business

 

So, my words to live by now are "if you need money, Go to a Fucking Bank".....

Momma always told me "if you're not ready to kiss the money or the friend/family goodbye, do not lend the money." It has served me well.

 

Do you realize how many escorts I could have hired for 57K ????

A Harem of men...

[+ Funguy]

i had a friend who foolishly lent another friend $25,000 (he could afford to lose it if it happened). That friend had financial problems due to illness and he said he was contemplating suicide if he could not come up with this $ to get himself right side up again. He got the money, there was a promissory note, he never repaid, statute of limitations ran out on collection and he laughed in his former friend's face.

Shortly thereafter I ran into the recipient in a very busy market, ran up to him and hugged him and loudly said that it was so nice to see that he hadn't committed suicide because "X" GENEROUSLY loaned him the money. But I said I was also now SO disappointed that he hasn't now committed suicide after stiffing him about repayment. Sure had a good audience for that one!

[N13]

when you made the original loan, was it entirely clear to HER that she did have to pay it back?.....

 

loans among family members are always touchy......

 

No question. She even talked about when she would pay it back. She borrowed it because she did not want her daughter's father - her contentious ex - to think she could not pay her half.

[N13]

In my lifetime I have had to borrow money more than once and was lucky enough to have friends that could lend it to me. The repayment in the time period promised was always my first obligation....before rent, food and personal expenses. There were times it was difficult but I never missed a payment when promised. It can be done. My heart is hurt by her each time I hear about a trip or expenditure on anything other than paying me back. Chances are I would have forgiven the debt if an effort had been made. $25 a month would have cleared it by now.

[LaffingBear]

Is it too much to ask?

 

Its too much to expect these days.

 

You might have politely asked either of those loud-speakers to keep it down a bit.... but I bet they would have glared at you and resented it. Probably make a snide comment to the person theyre phoning.

[+ Funguy]

I have patients who pay me $5 - $10 per month, are always going to be behind, and i don't care as long as they make that effort. The ones who ignore me for even $40-$50 for months are the ones who go to collection.

[LoveNDino]

Its too much to expect these days.

 

You might have politely asked either of those loud-speakers to keep it down a bit.... but I bet they would have glared at you and resented it. Probably make a snide comment to the person theyre phoning.

I just know that these ladies would have been offended that I was listening in to their conversations, if I had said anything...

[MikeyGMin]

It can be done.

Yes it can and it can be very meaningful when it works out. I could never be the kind of person who just black and white says I never loan anyone money.

 

I've loaned a couple friends modest amounts of money (a few thousand) when they were in a bind. It helped them greatly and they paid me back promptly. My sister generously loaned me the down payment on my very first house. We agreed on the term and I insisted that there be interest. I set up an automatic payment directly into her savings account and we never had to speak of it again until it was paid off.

 

However, I'm sure that success stories are not addressing the OPs question. Unless there is documentation and you're prepared to do some kind of collection activity, it sounds like you just have to write it off. I'm afraid I would be so resentful that the relationship would also be written off.

[YoungAD]

 

Suggestions?

 

Yes. Ask yourself if "true" love is worth $7000 to you. If the answer is yes, then drop the issue. If the answer is (as I suspect) no, then drop your relationship with her and move along.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

My God-daughter (who I truly love and think loves me)

 

No, she does not. At one point in time, she probably did or thought she did. However, to go this long without any repayment or response, even after you addressed it to her, tells me that at best you are someone she likes. Even if she is embarrassed by the fact that the debt remains unpaid, if she loved you, she would at least discuss it.

 

In the final services industry, we refer to this situation as elder abuse. This is an all too frequent scenario of someone convincing an older family member or loved one to give/loan money with no intention (either originally or now) of repayment. These individuals assume that at some point you will either forget about it, be too polite to talk about it, or fear ruining the relationship and decide to do nothing.

 

No matter what you do, you are going to upset someone. So the question for you is who's love is more important to you, your husband's or your goddaughter's? If the answer is your husband, then address it with her. Let her know how you feel used and she needs to start making repayment. If she gives any reason for not starting repayment, just be firm and say that is not acceptable. Remember there is nothing to debate, her bill is overdue.

[Deadlift1]

Thats disgusting. Even with other expenses she could of at least started a minimal payment plan. Some people feel they are entitled to the money when the lender is very well off.

[N13]

Thanks for the reality check. I'm not sure I am happy with the results, but I do see a lot of merit therein contained. Thinking about writing to her and letting her know how I feel and letting her take it from there. I think I will sleep on it and then make a decision. I do know that I spend a lot of time going over the situation in my head. It weighs heavily. I need to do something.

[Populist Fury]

Just let it go. Consider it money lost, drop the issue completely, and move on with your life.

 

You just said the situation weights heavily on you, so unless you really need the $7k, it's not worth the stress you've been going through over this.

 

Don't waste time and energy writing to a toxic person that has no intention of ever paying you back, simply ignore her and evict her from your life the way they do on Big Brother. Leaving her off your will is already punishment enough for her, she'll be the one losing more in the long run.

[instudiocity]

Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Farewell. My blessing season this in thee.

Polonius, in Hamlet. Thank you Wm Shakespeare.

I have followed the philosophy that if asked for a loan and the person and need are worthy and I can afford it, I GIVE the money. It's a "pay it forward" rule for me. A gift has only an obligation in friendship where a loan creates an adversarial circumstance that's not ever forgotten unless and until repaid, hopefully. I don't have the energy for that kind of financial instrument. I'd rather invest in people.

 

Many helped me to arrive at my station in life. I help as I see bona fide needs, then I rejoice seeing my recipients grow in our friendship, mature in their lives, succeed in ways far beyond my dreams or comprehension! And they pay it forward. Most recognize an indebtedness to me beyond merely the dollars given with my wholehearted support for their success.

[+ FreshFluff]

N13, you were kind to loan her tuition money when they were in a bad spot, and it's awful that they have not at least started to repay it. Are the lost funds affecting your lifestyle?

[N13]

N13, you were kind to loan her tuition money when they were in a bad spot, and it's awful that they have not at least started to repay it. Are the lost funds affecting your lifestyle?

 

Fortunately, no.

[jjkrkwood]

N13, you were kind to loan her tuition money when they were in a bad spot, and it's awful that they have not at least started to repay it. Are the lost funds affecting your lifestyle?

 

Really, that's NOT the issue and shouldnt matter. There's right and wrong. It's RIGHT to payback money you BORROW....

 

And its quite difficult NOT to obsess over something when you have been taken advantage of. My episode happened years ago and I am still steaming over it.

[+ WilliamM]

And its quite difficult NOT to obsess over something when you have been taken advantage of. My episode happened years ago and I am still steaming over it.

 

Me too. Lately I do not lend money ever, rather give it as a gift if the amount is small.

[RandyC]

Had the same problem. I lent a relative $6000. I see him on family ocassions and he always mentions that he knows he owes me money but never makes any attempt to pay it back. I wrote it off years ago because I decided the family relationship was more important than the money. I will however claim it as a loss on my income tax when he dies (he is much older than me) and let Uncle Sam foot some of the bill

[jjkrkwood]

Had the same problem. I lent a relative $6000. I see him on family ocassions and he always mentions that he knows he owes me money but never makes any attempt to pay it back. I wrote it off years ago because I decided the family relationship was more important than the money. I will however claim it as a loss on my income tax when he dies (he is much older than me) and let Uncle Sam foot some of the bill

 

If you havent discovered it yet, FAMILY is usually the first to screw you, and in those cases, family relationship is NOT more important than the money because it clearly speaks to how they "consider" you.