The Rentboy Raid—Two Years Later

[+ newguy]

We have just passed the two-year mark since the raid against Rentboy.com, so while many people have referenced this event in other threads and other contexts, perhaps now would be a good time to reflect on how we might try to prevent or respond to similar raids in the future. I will also note that I just posted a question in the “Ask an Escort” forum that is more focused on practical steps rather than political fights. I hope people will read and respond to that post as well: https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/practical-tips-for-a-new-era.127777/

 

As regular readers will know, the CEO was recently sentenced to six months in prison. One of the things that I find interesting is that the prohibitionist story line about protecting women and children really fell apart in this case. In terms of the criminal charges ultimately filed and that he pleaded guilty to, it all stemmed from what you might call “simple” prostitution. There were no criminal charged related to minors, human trafficking, drugs, or tax evasion (the money laundering charge was strictly derivative since he was depositing money from an “illegal activity” into a bank). As a result, there was probably more backlash and resistance to this prosecution than the government is used to facing in these kinds of cases. In the end, I don’t know if that made any difference to the outcome, though he was sentenced to a far shorter period than he was initially facing or even that the State ultimately suggested would be appropriate. His statement after sentencing was:

 

“I believe that consensual sex work between adults should be decriminalized and destigmatized. But that hasn’t happened yet. My business was ultimately illegal, but it shouldn’t have been. We must fearlessly fight for the rights to allow consensual adults to choose what they do with their bodies.”

 

I hope that as we head into the future, people are increasingly willing to “fearlessly fight” the criminalization of sex based on misguided moralism.

I see many parades and organizations devoted to the decriminalization of sex work in general.

Most seem focused on female sex work. Are there any organizations or attorneys who

are interested in the decriminalization of male sex work? Or must they always have to be lumped together?

[+ nycman]

Therefore, incorporate and only pay yourself dividends.

 

You do know that this doesn't work.....right?

 

You'd be audited after your first year.

 

Then your options would be simple..."pay up...or handcuffs....we'll give you 10 minutes to decide".

 

I've seen it happen....the IRS isn't smart....but they're not stupid.

[+ quoththeraven]

I see many parades and organizations devoted to the decriminalization of sex work in general.

Most seem focused on female sex work. Are there any organizations or attorneys who

are interested in the decriminalization of male sex work? Or must they always have to be lumped together?

There can always be male escort only organizations like Hook, but they'd be working for decriminalization for everyone. How can you justify decriminalizing one and not the other in light of the Equal Protection clause? From a legal standpoint, sex work is sex work irrespective of the genitals or gender of those involved.

 

As far as I know, those male escorts who participate in local SWOP affiliates have not had problems with the fact that most of the members are women. @adannyboy is one of them; another is based in Atlantic City and I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember his name.

[instudiocity]

You do know that this doesn't work.....right?

 

You'd be audited after your first year.

 

Then your options would be simple..."pay up...or handcuffs....we'll give you 10 minutes to decide".

 

I've seen it happen....the IRS isn't smart....but they're not stupid.

I've seen it work 99/100 times. Bad bookkeeping rolls up more than S-Corps than 'Substance over Form' disallowances.

[+ newguy]

There can always be male escort only organizations like Hook, but they'd be working for decriminalization for everyone. How can you justify decriminalizing one and not the other in light of the Equal Protection clause? From a legal standpoint, sex work is sex work irrespective of the genitals or gender of those involved.

 

As far as I know, those male escorts who participate in local SWOP affiliates have not had problems with the fact that most of the members are women. @adannyboy is one of them; another is based in Atlantic City and I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember his name.

 

Forgive me, I did not mean to imply that any organization would lobby to decriminalize one type of sex work but not the other. I only mean any organizations which raise funds, lobby, provide support services, and help study any special aspects of male sex work pertaining to decriminalization. Perhaps these would indeed be part of organizations like "Hook." I just remembered another one--"Scarlet Alliance" in Australia (see http://www.scarletalliance.org.au/scarletmen/.

 

I do really think of male sex work as a separate field from female sex work (or transgender sex work, or lesbian sex work), with its own distinct audience and interests. This outstanding forum would not have developed and flourished if otherwise.

[+ quoththeraven]

I do really think of male sex work as a separate field from female sex work (or transgender sex work, or lesbian sex work), with its own distinct audience and interests. This outstanding forum would not have developed and flourished if otherwise.

I agree that they are distinct, although there are some clients who are interested in/have hired workers from more than one market segment, if I can call them that.

 

However, if legal change is what you're interested in, any male-only organization would need to be part of a wider coalition anyway and being part of a broader group ensures agendas won't be set without regard to the interests of male escorts. Their involvement can also highlight the sexism involved in public and law enforcement attitudes toward female sex work and the sexual liberation aspects of sex work in overcoming shame about one's sexual orientation.

 

Hook is the only organization I know of in the US dedicated to male escorting, and I don't know if it's still active in the wake of the Rentboy raid and its director's arrest as part of it. Its website hasn't been kept up to date.

[+ José Soplanucas]

This thread has been very educational. Thanks @adannyboy for bringing your point about decriminalization. I had a couple of posts in my blog advocating for legalization, I just fixed them. I am kind of ashamed, I should have known better.

[mike carey]

I've read the discussion here and I'm annoyed at some of the underlying assumptions, and sceptical of some other aspects. First the scepticism. I'm not convinced by the objections to legalisation over decriminalisation, as they seem to depend on the idea that with legalisation there would necessarily be onerous regulation. That doesn't need to be so, and if there is regulation it can cover only the circumstances (eg brothels or not) but not the freedom for sex workers to practise their trade. Legalisation doesn't assume that sex workers would have to register, to have tests or do anything else. Those constraints are a separate issue from whether they can operate. Where I am annoyed is the feminist perspective that sex work is inherently degrading and exploitative of women. I don't hear similar arguments against male sex work. If men can be sex workers without it being inherently exploitative or degrading, there is no reason why women cannot also do so. To make a distinction is to deny agency to female sex workers. That is not to deny the possibility or even likelihood of women being exploited in sex work.

[+ WilliamM]

Where I am annoyed is the feminist perspective that sex work is inherently degrading and exploitative of women. I don't hear similar arguments against male sex work.

 

Some feminists include male sex workers as well. I have discussed this with women as far as the 1990s, so not a recent development.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Some feminists include male sex workers as well. I have discussed this with women as far as the 1990s, so not a recent development.

 

Back in the 80s, in Buenos Aires, when fighting for the expansion of civil rights after the military tyranny, Female Prostitutes were part of the Feminist movement. Yes, there were many feminist groups against them, but many others were supportive. They were very active and their leader was an old whore in her 60s, I forgot her name. I do remember a party where this Grandma of all Whores got top less and danced shaking her boobies at the rhythm of Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon.

[Guest DeepSouthDad53]

I do remember a party where this Grandma of all Whores got top less and danced shaking her boobies at the rhythm of Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon.

 

HAhahaha What a great way to start my Sunday morning-thanks

[+ WilliamM]

If men can be sex workers without it being inherently exploitative or degrading, there is no reason why women cannot also do so. To make a distinction is to deny agency to female sex workers. That is not to deny the possibility or even likelihood of women being exploited in sex work.

 

How can you so casually mention the "possibility or even likelihood of women being exploited in sex work." It's a major problem, especially in poor counties. That situation also exists for male sex workers. The exploitation is not necessarily organized.

[mike carey]

How can you so casually mention the "possibility or even likelihood of women being exploited in sex work." It's a major problem, especially in poor counties. That situation also exists for male sex workers. The exploitation is not necessarily organized.

I wasn't mentioning it causally. Women can be exploited, perhaps men are too. But banning sex work assumes that it is always so. It's not. I was mainly talking about the west, of course, where anti-sexwork is premised on women as victims rather than women as free agents who chose. Or men who chose.

[+ WilliamM]

I was mainly talking about the west, of course, where anti-sexwork is premised on women as victims rather than women as free agents who chose. Or men who chose.

 

The issue is male and female sex workers everywhere, not just in the west.

[mike carey]

The issue is male and female sex workers everywhere, not just in the west.

It is, but the question as to whether sex workers have agency is universal. Just as you can't dismiss the experience of sex workers in poor countries, and in situations where they are exploited, you can't deny that many sex workers in the west are not exploited.

[marylander1940]

Nevada gives the Mormons so many options!

 

not anymore, they're giving up on it and takin over Wyoming and Idaho, soon (if not yet) they'll have 6 senators.

 

Another thought: Local law enforcement can decide not to enforce or selectively enforce, which is likely to be to the advantage of adult male escorts who advertise on the internet. But that is always subject to political pressure and change, especially when local law enforcement is separately elected and thus not answerable to the local political structure, as with sheriffs and county government.

 

The only sure thing is repeal of restrictive laws.

 

I'm sure Jefferson Sessions would come up with something about it... after all he needs to give something to the base that helped him from the President's twitter attacks.

[+ WilliamM]

@mike carey, Yes many sex workers in the west are exploited.

[+ saminseattle]

Where I am annoyed is the feminist perspective that sex work is inherently degrading and exploitative of women. I don't hear similar arguments against male sex work. If men can be sex workers without it being inherently exploitative or degrading, there is no reason why women cannot also do so. To make a distinction is to deny agency to female sex workers.

 

The version of feminism I subscribe to says that the government should not tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies—whether you’re talking about taking contraception, selling eggs, being a surrogate, getting an abortion, or engaging in sex work. A woman’s body belongs to her, and she should have the right to choose what to do with it, not the government.

 

The counterargument seems to be that women can’t be trusted to make good decisions or that they need some kind of special protection against doing things they might regret, so restrictions on what they are allowed to do are really “for their own good.” Personally, I find this paternalistic attitude to be extremely patronizing and, frankly, sexist.

 

Of course, there are cases of women (and men) who are vulnerable and are taken advantage of or abused in various ways, including in the area of sex work. We need to find a way to address these cases without going after consenting adults, regardless of their gender.

[+ WilliamM]

Of course, there are cases of women (and men) who are vulnerable and are taken advantage of or abused in various ways, including in the area of sex work. We need to find a way to address these cases without going after consenting adults, regardless of their gender.

 

Much more complicated. For some women and men, there is not much choice -- whether in third-world countries, or poor families in western democracies.

[+ newguy]

I've read the discussion here and I'm annoyed at some of the underlying assumptions, and sceptical of some other aspects. First the scepticism. I'm not convinced by the objections to legalisation over decriminalisation, as they seem to depend on the idea that with legalisation there would necessarily be onerous regulation. That doesn't need to be so, and if there is regulation it can cover only the circumstances (eg brothels or not) but not the freedom for sex workers to practise their trade. Legalisation doesn't assume that sex workers would have to register, to have tests or do anything else. Those constraints are a separate issue from whether they can operate. Where I am annoyed is the feminist perspective that sex work is inherently degrading and exploitative of women. I don't hear similar arguments against male sex work. If men can be sex workers without it being inherently exploitative or degrading, there is no reason why women cannot also do so. To make a distinction is to deny agency to female sex workers. That is not to deny the possibility or even likelihood of women being exploited in sex work.

 

Wonderful insight to bring up--and right on target. There are (I believe) a huge number of feminists who are anti-sex work on the basis that transactional sex with a woman is inherently exploitative and degrading. I also have never heard that argument when it comes to male sex work. An "anti-male sex work" point of view might comp when the area of under-age individuals are involved. However, that is probably a different topic and more in the area of child abuse and neglect, and also varies state-by-state. When it comes to adult male involved with male sex work, the anti-sex work voices are mute.

[+ saminseattle]

Much more complicated. For some women and men, there is not much choice -- whether in third-world countries, or poor families in western democracies.

 

I agree that the issue is complicated, but criminalization is a simplistic approach that not only unjustly sweeps up people who have done nothing wrong, but ultimately ends up harming the people it is (ostensibly) intended to help.

[+ quoththeraven]

The version of feminism I subscribe to says that the government should not tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies—whether you’re talking about taking contraception, selling eggs, being a surrogate, getting an abortion, or engaging in sex work. A woman’s body belongs to her, and she should have the right to choose what to do with it, not the government.

 

The counterargument seems to be that women can’t be trusted to make good decisions or that they need some kind of special protection against doing things they might regret, so restrictions on what they are allowed to do are really “for their own good.” Personally, I find this paternalistic attitude to be extremely patronizing and, frankly, sexist.

 

Of course, there are cases of women (and men) who are vulnerable and are taken advantage of or abused in various ways, including in the area of sex work. We need to find a way to address these cases without going after consenting adults, regardless of their gender.

It's a little more complicated than that, though. There's more of an element of shame or distaste to female sex work because of societal conditioning, it seems to be more of a service and less of a calling, and to a much larger extent it is attractive because women are underpaid and discriminated against in other forms of employment. They are more physically vulnerable because women on average are not as muscularly strong as men and because they may be expected to put up with more than male escorts would be. Those last factors are consequences of sexism.

 

So some of the attitudes toward female sex work are due to sexism and some are a result of sexism, but it is ridiculous to deem all sex work, or all female sex work, as the product of trafficking. It's not, and the state should stop trying to end non-exploitative sex work.

 

Better sex education and a realization that transactional sex can be a service, not a moral outrage, would help. Not all women or all feminists are against sex work, either. Those who are supportive are less visible, vocal or organized, but they exist. They include a mother of a disabled son who has said that if her son is interested when he is older (he's a teen now), she would arrange for him to see a sex worker.

[+ quoththeraven]

Wonderful insight to bring up--and right on target. There are (I believe) a huge number of feminists who are anti-sex work on the basis that transactional sex with a woman is inherently exploitative and degrading. I also have never heard that argument when it comes to male sex work. An "anti-male sex work" point of view might comp when the area of under-age individuals are involved. However, that is probably a different topic and more in the area of child abuse and neglect, and also varies state-by-state. When it comes to adult male involved with male sex work, the anti-sex work voices are mute.

You may not have heard it, but the viewpoint exists, and there was a successful prosecution recently regarding male escorts brought in from Eastern Europe. I don't remember if the country was Hungary or the Czech Republic.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-the-rentboy-case-highlights-the-myth-of-the-good_us_59aeb492e4b0d0c16bb527ac

 

I had a longer post written with quotes from the article but lost them when I checked to see if there'd been any more recent posts made since I last read this thread. Sorry!