Calling all Opera Queens. . .

[+ g56whiz]

Is there a reason no one has commented on the Met's new Der Rosenkavalier or on Renee Fleming's final Marschallins?

 

I caught the live in HD performance and was stunned by the nuanced singing and acting. Except for the backstory pegged on Faninal I could accept the conceit of this new production. The randy younger Ochs made sense and was well sung if a bit overplayed. But it's an opera about growing maturity (at least of the principals) not the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Spare me the canons please especially after the trio.

 

I grew up on the old production and dreaded a new one. Now I'm curious to see what new principals can do with it.

 

And why on one has mentioned it.

[bostonman]

I'm not an "opera queen," just an avid opera lover, so I suppose I shouldn't be posting here, lol.

 

I didn't have the chance to see the HD (I had wanted to catch the encore last Wednesday, but the local theatre I usually go to was sold out except for the front row, and I hate sitting that close to the screen lol). But I did hear the Sirius broadcasts, and musically speaking, enjoyed it quite a bit.

 

I have heard enough about the production and concept to know that when I do see it (either on PBS or on the Met Opera On Demand site), I will hate it. I agree wholeheartedly that the opera has nothing overtly to to with WWI, and I really wish directors would stop trying to impose concepts on operas that just don't belong there. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence, among other things. And yes, I also agree that the final scene (really from the Marschallin's entrance onward, with that extraordinary trio being the defining climax of that scene) needs to be about nothing but the characters and the achingly bittersweet nature of their changing lives (as so perfectly captured in Strauss' music) - NOT about a history lesson.

 

I believe I heard that, in addition to this being Renee Fleming's final performances as the Marschallin, that Elina Garanca is also letting Octavian go from her rep at this point. I do agree that a younger, more attractive Ochs is a nice idea (younger men can be letches too, lol).

 

But spare me Robert Carsen's stupidity. I also understand his newfangled re-inventing of Falstaff (last season) was not well-liked - and though there were moments in his Eugene Onegin that were pretty, the "set" was all about chairs and falling leaves - which to me, signifies nothing. I'm not saying that I need every production to be strictly old-school "traditional" all the time - but do give me something to look at, please.

[body2body]

I am not a big fan of Mr. Carsen. I have not seen this production. Pushing it into WW I misses the mark. My favorite production of der Rosenkavalier was a production at Los Angeles Opera in the early 90's directed by Jonathan Miller. He set it in 1911 the year of the Opera's premiere. Octavian was Frederica Von Stade, the Marschallin was Ashlee Putnam. The opening scene where the Marschallin sings of her awareness that the love she shares with Octavian is a fleeting thing that she knows will have to come to an end was made more poignant by setting the production when her entire world would soon come to an end. It was one of the few times I have found a resetting of the time to work effectively. Frederica Von Stade was also the only woman I have ever seen convincingly play a trouser role.

[bostonman]

The opening scene where the Marschallin sings of her awareness that the love she shares with Octavian is a fleeting thing that she knows will have to come to an end was made more poignant by setting the production when her entire world would soon come to an end.

 

It seems to me that Carsen was trying to do something similar this time, except that he clearly has unproportionally heavy hands, lol.

[LoveNDino]

If you have not met the Bass-Baritone Mr Ryan Speedo Green yet, you're welcome.

[

[LoveNDino]

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/188717/brokeback-mountain-adaptation-to-make-us-debut-with-new-york-city-opera-in-2018/

I almost said Bareback Mountain, LOL.

Brokeback Mountain the opera is coming stateside!

[whipped guy]

If there is / was / will be an opera that I will never "get" it's Der Rosenkavalier so I dare not comment. I admit that the shortcomings are are all mine as my ears are very old-fashioned. Furthermore at this stage in my life I have no desire to explore that which I never have liked. Perhaps my good friend @TruHart1 needs to respond as he is one of the real opera experts on this forum when it comes to the entire scope of what opera has to offer. I am more of a specialist who prefers the Italian school with an emphasis on the Bel Canto. I would assume that disqualifies me from being classified as a true card carrying Opera Queen! Plus, as is well known here I adore Callas so that means that I have a tin ear as well! :eek::confused:...

[LoveNDino]

I'm not too ashamed to admit - I was bored by the Der Ring des Nibelungen.

[sydneyboy]

Where does Mr Ryan Speedo Green fit into this? I have read the reviews and the Ochs is Gunther Grossbock.

[sydneyboy]

I saw Der Rosenkavalier early in the my opera going career and it is an acquired taste. Opera magazine had a series some years ago when it asked prominent opera identities what they could not live without in opera. That brilliant but ascerbic critic Martin Bernheimer named Der Rosenkavalier in a wonderfully written and argued piece.

[whipped guy]

Where does Mr Ryan Speedo Green fit into this? I have read the reviews and the Ochs is Gunther Grossbock.

Regarding Herr Grossbock, if he had shown a bit more skin in this production (where Ochs is portrayed as younger than is normally the case) as he seems to be quite athletic, I might have been somewhat interested. (We Italian opera folk are indeed quite shallow!)

[AdamSmith]

If there is / was / will be an opera that I will never "get" it's Der Rosenkavalier so I dare not comment.

The reason blazes forth in one simple point of fact...

 

Namely the preposterous notion that such a creature as Richard Strauss (surely the ur-Silurian of the compositional world ) would essay to deliver a comic opera!

 

http://olddoctorwho.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Doctor-Who-And-The-Silurians-jon-pertwee.jpeg

 

 

[bostonman]

Where does Mr Ryan Speedo Green fit into this? I have read the reviews and the Ochs is Gunther Grossbock.

 

I like what I've heard from Mr. Green so far - but he's still quite young (10 years younger than Groissböck, who, as we've noted, is young for the typical Ochs already). - I don't think he'd be either an Ochs or a Faninal for some time yet - if he chooses to go there. Also, does he have Ochs' low notes?

 

I tend to think that Green was tossed into this thread only because he's handsome, lol.

[bostonman]

the preposterous notion that such a creature as Richard Strauss (surely the ur-Silurian of the compositional world ) would essay to deliver a comic opera!

 

Well, to be fair, it IS a comic opera of sorts - the same way that Die Meistersinger is - funny moments immersed in a lot of heaviness, lol. (I do have a great respect for both works - but if someone not familiar with opera asked me for a recommendation of a great comic opera, I would not start with either of those lol.)

 

I think Strauss did much better, comedy-wise, with Ariadne Auf Naxos - which is still quite a dramatic piece, but it's quite fun whenever Zerbinetta and her troupe of dudes are around. (I confess - for those of you who know Ariadne - that my favorite segment of that piece is the whole "commedia" segment in the opera proper - Zerbinetta's extraordinary aria and the quintet scenes on either side of it. Not that the rest of the music isn't wonderful as well, of course.)

[+ Charlie]

Well, since people are admitting their real feelings, I suppose this is a good time for me to fess up. I adore the love stories and accompanying music in Rosenkavalier, and am bored to death by the rest of it; i.e., almost any scene with Ochs. I think Strauss did a much better job of combining the comic and sublime in Ariadne.

Of course, Mozart is the real master of the hybrid, and all of his greatest operas move seamlessly between serious and comic.

The only truly "comic" operas I fully enjoy are Rossini's. I can admire what Wagner did (or attempted) in Meistersinger, and what Verdi did in in Falstaff, but they are not operas that I would normally pay to see more than once, whereas I could see any opera from the Ring innumerable times. Give me the heavy dramas any day (except Frau ohne Schatten, which I think is Strauss at his most pretentiously serious).

 

I could opine on any number of other operas and composers, but I will spare you the longeurs of my opinions.

[+ WilliamM]

Well, to be fair, it IS a comic opera of sorts - the same way that Die Meistersinger is - funny moments immersed in a lot of heaviness, lol. (I do have a great respect for both works - but if someone not familiar with opera asked me for a recommendation of a great comic opera, I would not start with either of those lol.)

 

It's possible I have never seen Die Meistersinger on stage, although that can not be true.

 

It's one of my favorite operas.

[+ honcho]

Well, since people are admitting their real feelings, I suppose this is a good time for me to fess up. I adore the love stories and accompanying music in Rosenkavalier, and am bored to death by the rest of it; i.e., almost any scene with Ochs. I think Strauss did a much better job of combining the comic and sublime in Ariadne.

Of course, Mozart is the real master of the hybrid, and all of his greatest operas move seamlessly between serious and comic.

 

The only truly "comic" operas I fully enjoy are Rossini's. I can admire what Wagner did (or attempted) in Meistersinger, and what Verdi did in in Falstaff, but they are not operas that I would normally pay to see more than once, whereas I could see any opera from the Ring innumerable times. Give me the heavy dramas any day (except Frau ohne Schatten, which I think is Strauss at his most pretentiously serious).

 

I could opine on any number of other operas and composers, but I will spare you the longeurs of my opinions.

 

A friend of mine thinks that the character's in Rossini's comic operas are too "comic book" - stereotypical, and do not show any emotional growth during the piece. He prefers Donezeti's La Fille du Regiment.

[bostonman]

A friend of mine thinks that the character's in Rossini's comic operas are too "comic book" - stereotypical, and do not show any emotional growth during the piece. He prefers Donizetti's La Fille du Regiment.

 

Oh yes - because there's SO much emotional growth in La Fille Du Regiment?? - I mean, it's a fine opera, but it's a pretty stock story that doesn't scream "emotional growth" to me at all, lol.

 

My first opera was The Barber Of Seville, which I still love, though when I got to know L'Italiana In Algeri, I started to prefer that one.

 

As far as Donizetti's comic operas go, the other 2 standard ones - Don Pasquale and L'Elisir D'Amore - are favorites of mine. And, maybe no "emotional growth" in any of these, really (is that the point of bel canto comic opera? Has it ever been?) - but both of these scores do have moments where one really does feel the honest emotions of the characters. The moment in the duet after Norina slaps Don Pasquale, for instance - and a very favorite moment of mine in the Act I Finale of L'Elisir where Nemorino realizes the game is up, and he really could lose Norina - and for the first time the music in the opera really turns sad - honestly sad. ("Adina, credimi") - I really feel for Nemorino at that moment. (Donizetti's use of the solo french horn, "sighing" between the tenor's sung phrases, adds to the mood.)

 

[LoveNDino]

Where does Mr Ryan Speedo Green fit into this? I have read the reviews and the Ochs is Gunther Grossbock.

Sorry I guess I was hijacking accidentally the thread - just found him to be very cute. I'll go back to my corner now;)

[+ WilliamM]

A friend of mine thinks that the character's in Rossini's comic operas are too "comic book" - stereotypical, and do not show any emotional growth during the piece

 

True also of Broadway musicals. I am not sure if it applies to the opera Lulu though. I am usually listening to the music rather than paying attention to rhe story.

[bostonman]

True also of Broadway musicals. I am not sure if it applies to the opera Lulu though. I am usually listening to the music rather than paying attention to the story.

 

Rossini wrote Lulu, lol? (He must have been drinking way too much at the time, lol.)

 

I love both of Berg's operas, but I find Wozzeck to be the more dramatically fulfilling. What's interesting, though, is that Berg (helped, of course, by Buchner's play as its basis) uses a lot of rather ridiculous caricatures all around Wozzeck (certainly the Captain, the Drum Major, the Doctor) to make the heart of the story - Wozzeck and Marie - feel like even more human, tragic characters. I feel the same about another favorite 20th century opera - Britten's Peter Grimes. Most of the Borough folk are drawn very broadly - some of them quite ridiculous - but Peter, Ellen, and Balstrode stand out as true flesh-and-blood characters, and I find it impossible not to be swept away by moments such as Ellen's "Embroidery" aria (where she realizes that Peter has most likely caused the new apprentice's death) or Peter's final moments (that incredible "mad scene" accompanied by nothing but the offstage chorus and a foghorn.

 

Though - even that ridiculous mob of Borough folk can become instantly terrifyingly real - their huge menacing choral cries of "Peter Grimes! Peter Grimes!" that roar, a cappella but at full force, throughout the theatre just before Peter's mad scene - SO powerful, and downright scary.

 

But - weren't we talking about the new Met Rosenkavalier, lol?

[whipped guy]

Oh yes - because there's SO much emotional growth in La Fille Du Regiment?? - I mean, it's a fine opera, but it's a pretty stock story that doesn't scream "emotional growth" to me at all, lol.

 

My first opera was The Barber Of Seville, which I still love, though when I got to know L'Italiana In Algeri, I started to prefer that one.

 

As far as Donizetti's comic operas go, the other 2 standard ones - Don Pasquale and L'Elisir D'Amore - are favorites of mine. And, maybe no "emotional growth" in any of these, really (is that the point of bel canto comic opera? Has it ever been?) - but both of these scores do have moments where one really does feel the honest emotions of the characters. The moment in the duet after Norina slaps Don Pasquale, for instance - and a very favorite moment of mine in the Act I Finale of L'Elisir where Nemorino realizes the game is up, and he really could lose Norina - and for the first time the music in the opera really turns sad - honestly sad. ("Adina, credimi") - I really feel for Nemorino at that moment. (Donizetti's use of the solo french horn, "sighing" between the tenor's sung phrases, adds to the mood.)

 

You nailed it with your comments on the Donizetti operas... and I love all three!! I can think of few ensembles in any comic opera that are more moving than "Adina ceredimi" with its double rising melody intensified by those trills that then falls to the ground only to be only rise up anew like the preverbal Phoenix.

 

I also agree about Barbiere, not my first opera but my first Rossini piece ... and the similarly positioned ensemble "Fredda ed immobile" is beautiful in its own way. However, L'Italiana in Algeri is a total jewel! Zany, but in a quite urbane manner! Plus there is the exquisite aria "Per lui che adoro" which I prefer with in its cello version as done at the MET this season. Also, La Cenerentola can be quite moving and is often more interesting than Barbiere. However, there are all those hit tunes in Barbiere... as in Figaro F i g a r o F I G A R O!!!!

[whipped guy]

Rossini wrote Lulu, lol? (He must have been drinking way too much at the time, lol.) ... But - weren't we talking about the new Met Rosenkavalier, lol?

I guess not any more...

[+ WilliamM]

Rossini wrote Lulu, lol? (He must have been drinking way too much at the time, lol.)

 

I have seen Lulu many times, including at the Sydney opera house. I know who wrote Lulu; it was not Rossini.

[bostonman]

I have seen Lulu many times, including at the Sydney opera house. I know who wrote Lulu; it was not Rossini.

 

It certainly wasn't, lol. And given what Rossini thought of the then-new fad of tenors belting high notes ("like the sound of a capon having its throat cut"), I can't even imagine how he would have reacted to Berg's music lol.