Companion or prostitute?

[augustman]

I debated whether to just add to nycjockguy thread or just refine the subject matter that was brought up, I believe was trying to get at. I opted for doing fresh with no reference to the escort to keep perspective to the subject rather than the person. There is very fine line in the subject matter here. I am sure I will be roasted by some posters but hell it is just my opinion. I will readily admit sex brought me to this site. From day one I was looking for fun, but as it went along intimacy that is not available to me in my private life is also what I searched for. Yes I know it is paid for.

 

I have been very fortunate that the majority of men I have met from this site have treated me very well, besides the sex. I have never once believed I was just looking for a prosititute, but a companion. This approach for the most part has been appreciated by the men I have been with. I have issued numerous reviews that although they all graphically described the sex I have particularly emphasized the human being I have been with. Although there have been times this approach has left me with a few emotional hiccups, I have managed to keep in contact with a few guys at their discretion.

 

As I was having lunch yesterday with guy I had hired , I explained I sometimes have problems connecting too well with the companion even though he is just doing his job. He stated he appreciated that I try to find a connection with the person and what happens after is a cummulation (perfect word for this spot) and that little crushes like this are not bad, just means I have a heart it is great that I try to put as much of myself into the time as he is trying to do. It is one of the reasons he choses to continue to see me despite the travel involved.

 

This site has helped me to find those type of people in particular and I am not sure I would have even pursued doing this without it. Although not perfect I have learned to do my own interview which eveyone one should do. The forum has also helped, my last couple of hirers came from the posts here. It does give a feel for who the escort really is.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

For intimately related discussion involving mirror images search on 'Whammers and Charmers'.

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Auggie,

 

I really appreciate that you took this subject away from a one-escort perspective. After reading the original post that you refer to I too was left thinking a lot about the subject.

My first approach was to realize that different countries have a different word for almost the same service. Germany and the Neatherlands give licenses to Prostitutes, while Canada licenses escorts. The United States calls us sex-offenders. And so on.

 

This explanation was unsatisfactory for me. It is very limited, because it would suggest that all three of them are the same. And I can't quite bring myself to agree with that; Even if I do perform sexual activities during my work, I don't think that prostitute is an accurate description of my job. (And yes, I tried to find out wether it was just shame of the work I do; but I feel none.)

 

I think that you hit the nail in your post. The real difference between a prostitute/hooker/sex-worker and an escort/courtesan/professional-companionship might be only one: the ability to safely, succesfully and easily be a catalyzer for intimacy (when needed). Only a well adjusted, healthy, secure person loving his or her job can do that. I think that might be also the difference between a good therapist and a bad one. Both perform almost the same way, but one is left feeling quite differently after being with them.

 

Many will say that intimacy is not such when it is paid for. Bu having grown in the culture of therapy as a way of staying healthy and sane and achieve steady growth, I can tell you right away that paid intimacy, by a professional that has been trained to do so is not only fulfilling, but transformational. I have -always- enjoyed the deep intimacy and frailty and safe emotional states that I have reached while being with a good therapist. After sessions like those, my soul feels stronger, and more alive.

 

Of course I can hear the wheels in their heads: "Those shrinks got years and years of trainning! Don't you try to compare yourself with them! All you are is a little pretentious Ho trying to be something else..." and so on. ;-)

 

I know... I know.

 

That's why all good that escorts should ever offer is pleasurable companionship. An interested and caring ear, a ready to be touched heart, and a more than eager to be enjoyed body, always ready to provide a pleasurable experience for all senses.

 

Besides, the best escorts that I have been lucky to meet, have really interesting backgrounds that could up to a certain point count as formal trainning as let's call it "professional intimacy catalyzers". Some have studies (if not degrees) in healing arts of all sorts, some are artist in many fields, some are deeply spiritual people, some were lucky to grow up in an environment that promoted safe intimacy, or some are just simply well adjusted, happy, intelligent guys. (We all know how good it feels to be besides someone who loves his or her life. How up-lifting it can be to be in their proximity.)

 

The only risk about this professional intimacy is very known by therapists. We have all seen it, and almost all of us have experienced it in various degrees... but I am going to be brave enough to name it. (I am almost shaking like a leaf fearing their slanderous attacks! ) It is called:

Emotional transference.

We have all heard of the risk of falling in love with your therapist (or hating him as if he was the reason for all your suffering and all the suffering in the Universe). The same thing can happen with escorts. Feeelings that can be so similar to love, infatuation, or deep hatred can arise after a period of such close intimacy. And it is the responsability of the escort to keep things in perspective. Personally I have many clients with whom I feel a real bond of affection and care and interest, but I would only continue to see them if we both know that there is no romantic involvement (or hope) at all.

 

Of course, that's just me, and the way in which I am choosing to view my profession. I am more than eager to suck a cock, or to fuck for hours until my dick falls off... (Knock on woddy) but I am not ready to be used as a thing, as a toy, as in-human human body. I have to say that I have left a couple of sessions in which the human element was not present, and that was a bit disturbing to me. Because even when role-playing something that might look really harsh and inhuman to some, you are doing it with a person for whom you care, and with whom you agreed limits. A person whose pleasure and fulfillment you are focusing on.

 

And again, being a "Professional intimate" (to call it somehow) I am fully aware that there might be around 4 or 5 billions of other human beings out there that might disagree with me, that might call me names, pity me, pray for my soul's salvation, and so on. I embrace their sacred right to have an opinion, and love my profession nevertheless. It's all the same package.

 

And speaking of packages.... have you checked Ricky Martinez' package in Rentboy Las Vegas???:9 :o :7

 

That's a real package!

 

Always happy to agree, disagree and ultimately, comunicate freely,

 

Yours truly.

(Juan in Vancouver)

[Rick Munroe]

>but I am not ready to be used as a thing, as a toy, as

>in-human human body.

 

I am! While I love connecting with a guy and sharing some sort of emotional/passionate/romantic experience (even if we've just met), I also find it extremely fucking hot to just be used for someone else's pleasure, even if that pleasure involves them making me feel good. Maybe it's because I already have a very fulfilling committed relationship that I am able to not only deal with it but truly enjoy it when someone treats me like a sex toy. }(

 

>I have to say that I have left a couple

>of sessions in which the human element was not present, and

>that was a bit disturbing to me.

 

I've left situations like that and I had to go home and jerk off and cum again because I was so turned on. To each his own.

[Guest nycjockguy]

Extremely delighted to have sparked such thoughtful discussion, and even delighted to have it divorced from one particular escort/sex worker.

 

That, by the way, is the term I prefer. Not because it is PC, or euphemistic, but because I think it's most accurate. (I suppose you can choose sex worker/escort if that's where you place the emphasis...)

 

Juan I think has it quite right. In days of yore, there were women called coursesans, and for a fascinating discussion on same see a piece called Courtesan Power on Salon.Com. I'd attach the link but don't know how.

 

http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2000/11/15/courtesan_1/

 

Best,

 

nycjockguy

[Juan Vancouver]

>>but I am not ready to be used as a thing, as a toy, as

>>in-human human body.

>

>I am! While I love connecting with a guy and sharing

>some sort of emotional/passionate/romantic experience (even if

>we've just met), I also find it extremely fucking hot to just

>be used for someone else's pleasure, even if that pleasure

>involves them making me feel good. Maybe it's because I

>already have a very fulfilling committed relationship that I

>am able to not only deal with it but truly enjoy it when

>someone treats me like a sex toy. }(

>

>>I have to say that I have left a couple

>>of sessions in which the human element was not present, and

>>that was a bit disturbing to me.

>

>I've left situations like that and I had to go home and jerk

>off and cum again because I was so turned on. To each his

>own.

 

Rick,

reading your post I have the impression that we are talking about totally different things;

 

correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are talking about a scene in which you are a young, hot, fit eager body to be discovered, enjoyed and (gasp!) used by your client for his own selfish, primitive, lustly basest urges.... No interest about your mind or soul; (Do you have either?) only an imperative, desperate need to fulfill the "deed" and get a feeling of completion and cum until his balls go dry...

 

 

:9 Now, that's fun! I love that kind of scene and I too get inmensely turned on by that. As i clearly mentioned in my original post, role-play is a terribly enjoyable side of intimacy. And of course,I think this is one of the most common fantasies of escorts. (perhaps I am wrong)

 

What I was talking about is something completely different; when a client de-humanizes the escort to a level that he totally disrespects him, either by not respecting his boundaries, by not caring about his personal hygiene, even after a kind request from the escort, by showing contempt or hatred, or any indication that the client doesn't in the end, respect either the escort or his profession.

Perhaps I am assuming, and by doing that might be wrong, but I am sure that if a client repeatedly tries to break your rules, take you out of your safe boundaries out of disprespect towards you as a human being, you, Rick, would also leave the session unfinished, if after adressing the issue the client is totally decided to not care. I hope that you would. And I hope so because that is simply not healthy. (As it wouldn't be healthy to endure that kind of treatment even if you were the CEO of Microsoft.)

 

I don't know if you are just trying to be witty and cute, or if you really believe that we are talking about the same thing... Sometimes it is very hard to tell.

[dannyrossmoore]

Intamacy is not something your purchase

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>Intamacy is not something your purchase

 

No, but that does not mean that it cannot be given, even in a transactional circumstance.

[augustman]

Interesting comment Rick, I enjoyed the time I had with you and Derek a couple of weeks ago. It was fun and that is what you offer. You need to keep a bit of insulation so that you can maintain your personal realtionship with Derek. You are both true professionals. I was certainly physically satisfied, as I asked for.

 

I believe what Juan has spoken of is his style involves one more layer down. That is physcial and emotional satisfaction. The emotional satisfaction is a very tricky thing. This is where the notion of sexual therapist does come into play. Juan I agree with you that the escort has the additional responsibility of helping the client keep things inperspective. This is the spot I have had some difficulty including recently but that is life, I will deal with it. I always think when come out thinking that way the escort thinks I am some sort of wierdo. Thanks Juan you understood exactly what I was getting at.

[Rick Munroe]

>I believe what Juan has spoken of is his style involves one

>more layer down. That is physcial and emotional satisfaction.

 

I wasn't saying that I prefer to be treated a sex object or that I need to keep some distance emotionally from my clients. As my reviews have mentioned, I love to have a deeper connection with them (and yes, that has led some to fall in love with me; I have found that talking openly about my relationship with Derek has helped somewhat in that regard...but not always!). I love to make a guy feel loved. I agree that we can be sexual healers as well as therapists, and I have done (and do daily) my share of helping clients work through issues like coming out, escort addiction, intimacy, self-image, etc. And I love and enjoy all of that. I was merely saying that it's also hot to just be a "thing" sometimes.

 

Btw, we had lots of fun with you, too.

[Barry]

>>Intamacy is not something your purchase

>

>No, but that does not mean that it cannot be given, even in a

>transactional circumstance.

 

Very well put.

 

Barry

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

The Other Side Of The Coin

 

I want to preface this by saying I can understand what Rick meant about being used as an object. It can be fun and it can appeal to ones ego. But one of the reasons I have moved away from one hour appointments (I still make them but I can count on one hand the number of one hour appointments I have done in the last two months, for example).

 

In the one hour appointment, it is hard to make a connection with someone and, sometimes, it is hard to really enjoy yourself (and I do not mean merely physically) without that connection. And, to be blunt, it is not always possible to make that connection, even when both parties are trying. Sometimes the client just wants to get off and you cannot force the client to want something else, but I do believe that if the client wanted some intimacy with their pleasure, that an escort can and should try to do it. On the other hand, clients need to keep in mind that some escorts simply are not capable of this. One of my younger friends who used to escort (he is back home in the midwest now and retired a few years back), told me that he really enjoyed the sex part - after all, he actually liked older men and all his boyfriends were always at least 10 or more years older. But he also said he always hated the "afterwards." He did not like to be sympathetic, he did not want to listen to the stories of their life and he was not big on "cuddling" or anything remotely intimate once he and the client had gotten off. In fact, it was like the whistle had blown and it was time to go home.

 

A lot of things are for sale which cannot really be "purchased." But people attempt to buy them anyways. Providing a service (which is what is really being purchased) and attempting to enhance it for both parties is something a good companion does and this is what I personally think makes is companion over prostitution (more so than whether the escort was found on the streets, CraigsList, an agency or site and whatever the fee might have been).

[Guest Delaware Man]

These particular posts brough back many pleasant memories of an escort I was fortunate to meet more than a decade ago who no lomger escorts but remains my friend.

Like many others I suspect, who frequent this forum, I was brought up to believe I was ordained to marry, have 2 children, be successful,etc., etc. Homosexuality was never talked about in my house growing up except for snide comments about decorators and hair dressers. I have known I was sexually attracted to men since the age of 14. Never did anything aboutit, tried to deny, dated, almost got married at 30 and glad I did not.

One night, another Saturday being a homo alono, I drove to a bar in Philadelphia. There I was gulping Dewars like Prohibition was coming back when in walked someone I knew professionally. I about shit. We talked he put me at ease and is now one of my two best friends. No, I did not have sex with him and never will but I kept going back to the bar, Woody's and a couple of weeks later I lost my gay virginity in Philadelphia. I took to gay sex like a duck to water but it was not very good sex. I knew there was more/better out there. So, I saw an ad and hired an escort. I was lucky. Besides being very sexy, he was/ is kind and intelligent. He became my mentor. Besides teaching me and showing how good sex could be and giving me pointers, he taught me much about gay life, the positives and the pitfalls. Was, is he a prostitute? Absolutely not. The best description is coach/therapist/ friend. I shall always be grateful. We stopped our professional realationship years ago- but we are still friends and occassionally have dinner together. He has been a social guest in my home, and I in his. I will always be grateful that I was lucky enough to call the right guy. Therefore, imo good escorts are companions, teachers, therapists, friends.

[Guest nycjockguy]

good post, d-man.

[Rick Munroe]

>What I was talking about is something completely different;

>when a client de-humanizes the escort to a level that he

>totally disrespects him, either by not respecting his

>boundaries, by not caring about his personal hygiene, even

>after a kind request from the escort, by showing contempt or

>hatred, or any indication that the client doesn't in the end,

>respect either the escort or his profession.

 

Well, that's completely different. Of course I would agree with you there, and yes, I have ended sessions for those reasons. But now that I've had a chance to re-read your first post, I don't see where you had said any of the above. In my mind, simply being treated like a "thing" or a "toy" at a session "in which the human element was not present" is completely different from having your limits disrespected and the kind of abuse you're now describing.

 

>I don't know if you are just trying to be witty and cute, or

>if you really believe that we are talking about the same

>thing... Sometimes it is very hard to tell.

 

I was serious, and you weren't clear, but I get you now.

[+ bigjoey]

from my posts and reviews, you can see that i tend to hire for overnights or weekends. these longer time periods give space to create real relationships that can not happen in "quickies" or one hour meetings. i find the companionship that develops truely rewarding. the men that i hire are along the lines of a "courtesan" rather than a prostitute. they are all intelligent and normally well educated (i find intelligence sexy). i have been greatly rewarded with these relationships.

 

i have remained friends with almost all of the men long after they retire. like delaware man, i was fortunate with one in particular when i was first starting out; he took me to my first gay bar, bath house, gay nude beach, etc. he showed me the ropes. now years later we are still friends.

 

i have been able to find wonderful companionship that went far beyond the sex; i treated these men with respect and dignity and they treated me the same way. just having sex by itself just "doesn't do it for me"; i want something more and that is the emotional relationship that comes with intimacy.

 

the hard part is not falling "in love" with these men; besides being handsome, outgoing, intelligent, personable they understand what needs another person has and how to fill those needs. they would make fabulous "partners" for any gay man. it has taken great strength to know the reality of the relationship and sometimes just settling for just being friends is not a bad thing. if something more comes, then so be it. just being friends has been wonderful for me. would i like to have a "life-partner", yes; would i like him to be one of these men, yes(as i said, they are all top notch men).

 

others may seek out these men just for sex for an hour and then go on to the next encounter. however, i have been fortunate to find what i was looking for.

[taylorky]

so you do not have sex with these people you hire.i c

[+ bigjoey]

yes, i do/have had sex with these men. however, because we are normally spending the weekend together, the sex is only for a small part of the time we are together. the ones that have retired are just friends and we no longer have sex when we travel together or meet.

 

some of them are only "average" when having sex and others are A+; however, i grade an encounter on the sum of its parts and not just on the sex alone.

[taylorky]

the definition of "prostitute" makes no mention of time engaged in sex...only that money changes hands in exchange for sexual activity.

 

so,you engage prostitutes...who cares other,than you.

why do you have so much difficulty in stating the obivous...your sex partner (in exchange for money) is a "prostitute"

[Guest timgetrum]

What a great post!

 

What is your definition of love? Is it expecting/hoping for a long term relationship? That is not realistic. Why not enjoy being "in love" if one realistically just expects to wallow in the incredible moment, teaching and being taught, if that is the situation?

[basket]

Thoughtful discussion like this would seem to be the reason most of us come to this site.