Penn State frat members face manslaughter charges in hazing case

[Cody Converse]

So sad to hear about continuing tragedies. I just finished watching the Frat Boys documentary on Netflix. I'd be afraid to let my kid get near a fraternity.

 

As a new hire out of college I was suspicious of coworkers that made a point of their Greek history. On campus we judged Greek life as contemptible and selfish. I still have ill feelings towards their behavior. They claim to carry on their traditions into the business world, as if that is a good thing. How can they expect to be looked upon as noble? The hazing and their selfish nature towards the rest of students on campus was nothing to be proud of. Still, some want to wear that kind of behavior as a badge of honor.

 

I was bombarded with invitations to visit and pledge but somehow knew not to try. I'm glad I didn't.

It's difficult and problematic to paint all Greek organizations as the same. I used to hold your opinion on Greek life as well, until I actually joined. As a horribly anxious 19yo, it was the best thing I could have asked for, and helped me grow into a confident young man. My organization had parties and had its share of douchebags, but we never hazed, and we encouraged our new members to see us as friends rather than superiors. We were known on campus for being a "safe place" (especially for women). We were (and I continue to be) abhorred by hazing and abuse committed by other organizations.

 

I'm sorry people looked down on you for staying unaffiliated. Anyone looking down on others for not going Greek are assholes, no matter their affiliation status. As for "carrying my traditions into the business world," I can't say. I always saw Greek creeds the same way I saw the Ten Commandments: I don't need a document to tell me to be a good person. It's pretty easy to treat people with respect.

[BigK]

Welcome to the forums Cody. You look like a fun (and sexy) guy in your rentmen ad.

[+ Pensant]

Ah, fraternities! I was a scholarship student at a fairly preppy liberal arts school and never thought I’d join one. I had never met a prep school kid before and I had social class status anxiety. I had pretty classic WASP looks, so I spent more than I should have to buy some preppy clothes to better fit in and was invited to rush several houses. I did join one and it really exposed me to a life that I rather liked for the first few years, until I turned 21 and grew bored with it. There wasn’t much hazing at that college. The one thing the brothers did to to the pledges could have been dangerous now that I think back on it was “kidnapping”. They kidnapped me after class one afternoon and dropped me off 20 or 30 miles from campus. Fortunately, I was able to hitch back.

[+ TylerandAce]

So sad to hear about continuing tragedies. I just finished watching the Frat Boys documentary on Netflix. I'd be afraid to let my kid get near a fraternity.

 

As a new hire out of college I was suspicious of coworkers that made a point of their Greek history. On campus we judged Greek life as contemptible and selfish. I still have ill feelings towards their behavior. They claim to carry on their traditions into the business world, as if that is a good thing. How can they expect to be looked upon as noble? The hazing and their selfish nature towards the rest of students on campus was nothing to be proud of. Still, some want to wear that kind of behavior as a badge of honor.

 

I was bombarded with invitations to visit and pledge but somehow knew not to try. I'm glad I didn't.

As a proud brother of a national organization, it's painful to read how you were treated by those in Greek organizations. That was fortunately not my or my children's experiences. It sounds like they did themselves no favors there in the wider community, either. I've known others who fared no better than you on different campuses and I believe we all pay a heavy price in good will for that no matter from where we hail. It should be a wake up call to all who wear the letters to do better, be more accepting, and be way less douchey!

 

My experience has shown that there is a massive difference between attitudes and positioning campus-to-campus. For instance, the pressure to be Greek and assimilate is so much stronger at places like Ole Miss and Univ. of Alabama. There, if you aren't a member of one, you are derided, shunned, and even ostracized. Auburn and Miss. State, conversely, are heavily independent campuses and very casual in their attitudes. While they do have their dramas, the two worlds co-exist much better.

 

What happened at Penn State is systematic to their culture and endemic of their university. A purge there is necessary. As hard as it would be for some and as heavy-handed as it seems, my opinion is that they should all be given the death penalty and then restarted when the existing students have aged out of the system. Also, alumni from those chapters should not be allowed to restart the programs. They should be planted from other schools.

[Guest]

So in Pennsylvania, involuntary manslaughter has to rest on an act of commission, not an act of omission.

Is giving alcohol to someone under 21 legal in Pennsylvania? It would appear to me that the 19 year-old's death was at least in great part due to illegal acts of commission. He's dead not only because of what his frat brothers didn't do, but also because of what they did do.

[+ quoththeraven]

Is giving alcohol to someone under 21 legal in Pennsylvania? It would appear to me that the 19 year-old's death was at least in great part due to illegal acts of commission. He's dead not only because of what his frat brothers didn't do, but also because of what they did do.

That's not what caused his death, in a "but for" cause sense. It was the fall and leaving him without medical attention, unless I am woefully misremembering the facts.

 

I'd have to go back to the description of what happened, but there's individual responsibility here, too. Did they pour alcohol down his throat? Was showing up a choice to drink? In other words, was alcohol ingestion foreseeable based on what he knew beforehand?

 

Looks to me like involuntary manslaughter is an overcharge. Either overcharging is wrong (and borderline unethical when used to leverage a plea, which may or may not be the case here) in every case or it's not, and if it's not we are trashing the rule of law just as effectively as Trump is.

[Guest]

?? You think providing him alcohol didn't cause his fall?? He was going to fall anyway? Are you saying drunk drivers don't cause accidents? I find it a rather foreseeable consequence. If a drunk driver kills someone, it's not manslaughter? Is it just "but for"?

Beyond the illegality of providing alcohol for someone under age, these pledges were essentially forced (no way to join the fraternity otherwise), or at least strongly coerced to drink alcohol to dangerous levels. This obviously puts the pledge's life at risk. I don't think that the pledge's fall was "but for" the alcohol. I think that the alcohol was at least 99% responsible for the death (though the life might have been saved had the frat brothers had the decency to call for an ambulance).

Edited May 3, 2018 by Unicorn

[samhexum]

My son is a 4.0 student in the most difficult major on campus.

 

And now we know how...

 

A California teen hacked into his school district’s computer system using a phishing email — all to mess with his classmates’ grades and give himself stellar marks, according to local reports.

 

David Rotaro, a 16-year-old student at Ygnacio Valley High School in Concord, was charged last week with 14 felony counts, including unauthorized use of entering network.

 

“It was like stealing candy from a baby,” he brazenly told KGO-TV.

 

Reports of the hack first started trickling in two weeks ago when teachers in the Mount Diablo Unified School District started getting fishy emails.

 

The emails contained a link that sent recipients to a fake website built to look like the school’s portal. The link prompted teachers to enter their user name and password. Once they did, the site would record their information.

 

At least one teacher entered the information, allowing the student to access the district’s IT network — and the grading system, police said.

 

Law enforcement officials looked up IP addresses linked to the site in the phishing email and traced it back to the teen.

 

The tech-savvy student either raised or lowered the grades of between 10 and 15 students, police told KTVU.

 

“He’s a young man from the high school and he seems to be very intelligent,” Sgt. Carl Cruz, the Concord police financial crimes supervisor, told the outlet.

 

Rotaro said it took him about five minutes to create the email and that hacking into the system was “very easy, it was like beginner level.”

 

He told KPIX he’s sorry, but hopes to move on from the charges and become “an IT type person at the top-notch level” someday.

 

The teen, who was suspended from school, was released to his parents as he awaits a court date.

[Racketjock]

As a member of a fraternity in college, our hazing was confined to our pledge night which involved a nice bonfire out in the woods we were taken to blindfolded, friendly banter, social drinking was offered but not forced, then our clothes were taken away and we were left to make it back to the frat house by dawn. Common scenario for frats in the south. Can't say I minded seeing the other guys in their naked best, but wandering through the woods in the dark to a pasture isn't likely the safest. Unbeknownst to us, we were going to be followed, but we opted to not take the well worn road and ventured to the closest direction based on our boy scout skills. We made it and had a good story to tell among us.

 

It greatly saddens and angers me to hear of the stupidity, hazing, and dangers being forced on to students and college kids these days. It goes against good, decent judgment and speaks more to the character of those who are inflicting the abuse.

[+ TylerandAce]

And now we know how...

 

A California teen hacked into his school district’s computer system using a phishing email — all to mess with his classmates’ grades and give himself stellar marks, according to local reports..

 

I'm sorry if using the example of my son somehow seemed braggadocious and offensive. I intended to make a point that all Greek organizations shouldn't be measured by the lowest common denominator. As with any organization there are good people and bad. Our experience as a family with three generations involved has been very good.

[samhexum]

I'm sorry if using the example of my son somehow seemed braggadocious and offensive...

 

Not at all, just proud. (Well, maybe just a little.) However, it means that anything I come across pertaining to kids and school will be used to tease you... until the end of time. Consider it one of the joys of parenthood.:D:rolleyes:

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by samhexum

[+ TylerandAce]

Yeah...I live 200 yards from their mother. I ain’t scared. Bring it

[samhexum]

I'm sorry if using the example of my son somehow seemed braggadocious and offensive.

 

 

Identical twins from Queens are valedictorian & salutatorian of their graduating high school class

Twin sisters from Fresh Meadows will take top honors at their upcoming graduation from an all-girls school in Jamaica Estates.

 

Maya and Hannah Reyes have achieved valedictorian and salutatorian, respectively, at The Mary Louis Academy. The private high school’s graduation ceremony will take place on June 3.

Imagine how obnoxious THEIR parents must be! :D:rolleyes:

[+ TylerandAce]

Identical twins from Queens are valedictorian & salutatorian of their graduating high school class

Twin sisters from Fresh Meadows will take top honors at their upcoming graduation from an all-girls school in Jamaica Estates.

 

Maya and Hannah Reyes have achieved valedictorian and salutatorian, respectively, at The Mary Louis Academy. The private high school’s graduation ceremony will take place on June 3.

Imagine how obnoxious THEIR parents must be! :D:rolleyes:

Shudder the thought!!

[samhexum]

My son is a 4.0 student in the most difficult major on campus, he serves in elected office for the student body, and keeps a part-time job in addition to everything else.

 

Pish... you think you're a good parent...

 

A set of quintuplets graduated from the same university on the same weekend – with degrees in five different subjects.

 

Enna, Maria, Emilio, George and John Diaz, 21, donned their caps and gowns to accept their certificates after four years of study at the University of North Texas.

 

The quintuplets, who were born within three minutes of each other in July 1996, attended the same elementary, middle and high school and even went to prom together.

 

After they were all accepted to the same university, they bunked in the same college houses and studied together in the library while prepping for their final exams.

 

The fivesome worked part-time in restaurants, took out student loans and used the university’s financial aid program to put themselves through college.

 

But although the quintuplets, from Keller, Texas, shared many core classes, their majors couldn’t be further apart.

 

The siblings graduated with degrees in biology, finance, Spanish, social communication and art in May.

 

Parents Jorge, a 55-year-old salesman, and full-time mom Enna Diaz, 55, watched on proudly as they graduated over the course of the weekend of May 10 and 11.

 

Jorge, originally from Guadalajara, Mexico, said: “Ever since they were born people were asking me how I would ever put five of them through college.”

 

“It has been my dream to see them through college. Watching them graduate was the best feeling any parent can have but multiply that by five. We did it.”

 

George, a Spanish and logistics major, said he will never be as happy as his dad when he was watching his quintuplets accept their degrees.

 

George said: “I don’t think I’ll ever be half as happy as my dad was when we graduated.”

 

“It was always his main goal to get us all through college and he was like ‘Holy moly, I did it.'”

 

“It was great to start something like college with my siblings and finish it together.”

 

The siblings lived in adjoining dorms for their freshman and sophomore years, before moving into an apartment together.

 

Later, sisters Enna and Maria shared an apartment, while the boys Emilio, John and George moved into an off-campus house.

 

Enna, a biology major who is the eldest of the five, said college was an experience that was made easier by the fact that she had the support of her siblings.

 

She said: “I think college can be a daunting thing to go into alone. I feel very lucky to have had the support of my family.”

 

“We would see each other every day and we’re constantly in touch on our group chat EGMTE.”

 

“It feels like even more of an accomplishment to have done it together.”

 

George added: “We’re so used to being together.”

 

“Even though we all have different majors, we sometimes ended up in the same classes.”

 

“It was really helpful to have them in your class because you had automatic study groups and if there was a project or an assignment you weren’t clear on you had them there to help you.”

 

“Sometimes we would walk to the library together at night for a few hours just to get some work done and walk back together.”

 

“It was always our plan to go to the same college. UNT gave us such great support and really made the application process so much easier.”

 

While college life was a big change for the quintuplets, it was also life-changing for their little brother Sebastian, now 17.

 

Enna said: “It was definitely a shock to Sebastian’s system. He grew up with all of us around him constantly and then we were just gone.”

 

“He definitely had to get accustomed to it but I’m sure he enjoyed having our mom to himself.”

 

The quintuplets said their mom Enna was excited for them to become more independent at college but was always there for her kids when they really needed it.

 

Enna, named after her mom, said: “Our mom was such a great support to us.”

 

“She was always that someone to talk to and she was always ready to take our calls.”

 

“I know it meant a lot for all of us to watch our mom and dad in the audience as we got our degrees.”

 

 

 

[+ Avalon]

"The quintuplets, who were born within three minutes of each other in July 1996"

 

The mother must have been so relieved!

[+ azdr0710]

holy hell.....the forum is notorious for going off the topic in threads, but jesus......