labels

[P Gren]

After a discussion of Montreal Strip Clubs there was this thread with guys reacting to labels. "Labels don't matter." "I avoid labels." The reaction interested to me, curious about what it was about. Couple of theories I have. A hold over from a more homophobic era when labels were hurtful - nancyboy, sissy, faggot, confirmed bachelor, light on his feet etc.?

I mean our dads and grand-dads fought hard FOR labels - gay, lesbian, transgender, queer - to make coming out possible. For younger guys labels don't matter - in that it's not a big deal to be labeled - but the labels themselves ARE important. Use them or lose them or slip back into the closet?

[DiscoveringMe]

From Psychology Today... "Categorical labeling is a tool that humans use to resolve the impossible complexity of the environments we grapple to perceive. Like so many human faculties, it's adaptive and miraculous, but it also contributes to some of the deepest problems that face our species."

 

Speaking as someone who is still learning about my own identity, I think the problem with labeling is that sexuality is not as simple as gay or straight. Labels simply become a mechanism for people to put others into categories that can be perceived as different from the majority or societal norms. Thus, people are less likely to openly be themselves in order to avoid those labels. For example, if a "straight" male has sex with another man, the majority of people immediately label him as "gay" However, if someone who self identifies as gay has sex with a woman, people do not say "oh, he must be straight." Despite the great progress in understanding and acceptance across the world, there is still a long way go. Think of it in terms of race. As long as labels exist on groups in the minority, we will never view each other as equals.

 

With that said, I agree there was a time when embracing that label was important. The "dads and grand-dads" certainly paved the way for younger generations, and for that we should all be thankful. However, I think to become a truly accepting society, we must ultimately eliminate labels.

[P Gren]

Hi. First we force social change by embracing and celebrating the labels we've chosen and then at some point in the (distance?) future - when social stigma and discrimination on sexual identity is gone - we eliminate labels. That's all cool. In the mean time there does seem to be a generation split between younger guys saying labels don't matter (cause it's not a big deal being gay when there isn't the internalized homophobia) and older guys that seem to be ... avoiding ... a label. That's what I've noticed anyway, from the couple dozen posts I've read. It's just an interesting difference with the reaction to labels.

[MikeyGMin]

Labels and just descriptive shorthand. We all get categorized (labeled) in many ways, so I don't know why sexual identity should be any different. Any halfway intelligent person realizes that labels are not absolute, and I think they only become confining when the person limits themselves based on that label. They do that to themselves.

 

Honestly, when I hear someone say they don't want to be labeled I hear narcissism. I hear, "I'm so special and unique that I can't be labeled." It's one thing coming from a 20 year old who is still working things out, but pretentious (to me) from a full grown man.

[+ sniper]

The people who get all bent out of shape over "not labeling myself" seem to be those who enjoy sex with anyone they happen to find attractive, but stick to opposite-sex for relationships. I would imagine the reason they don't want to get that specific is it makes it sound like a fetish, or possibly like they are using gay people or something.

It doesn't help that there are people who jump all over anyone who gives them an answer they decide they don't believe. Guys saying they are bi will have both straigh and gay people saying "no, you're gay" because people filter everyone else through their own personal experience. The fact that a large number of gay people use bi as a stepping stone designation doesn't mean bi people don't exist.

I kind of gave up asking people the question because what's the point? Unless I'm pursuing a romantic relationship, it's irrelevant. If I'm going to have sex with them, I just care that they be able to do it and at least give the appearance of being willing, which isn't strictly correlated with orientation.

[BasketBaller]

As a young man, oh, did I ever want to be labeled-- as straight. I made so many choices to put myself into that pigeonhole and would have freaked out at the suggestion the label wasn't quite right. Internalized homophobia doesn't say enough, I think I had internalized "homosexual panic." As I eventually came to think of myself as bisexual-but-not-acting-on-it to a sexually active bi guy, I now think of myself more and more as gay-- it's been a long time since I fantasized about a woman. I don't think I care about the label one way or the other as long as I figure out what works for me.

[P Gren]

K. Thanks for thoughts guys. I've sorted myself out ... haha. Labels are important (makes us non-invisible), getting labelled is not a big deal.