Couples

[+ Charlie]

When I was a young man, gay male couples were called "lovers" within the gay community; outside it, they were usually archly described as "special friends." As relationships became more open, they were cutely described as "boyfriends" (or "fuckbuddies" if there were no romantic bond), then more seriously as "partners," which evolved into the sociological category "domestic partners." Finally, with the legalization of same-sex marriage, they became "spouses." Yesterday, a sensitive elderly lady who tries to be politically correct referred to my other half, in a somewhat tentative voice, as "your husband." It threw me back to a scene sixty years ago, when my closest gay friend in high school was badgering his father for the family car so we could go to the movies. His exasperated father remarked sarcastically, "Why do you have to go everywhere together? Are you married to him?"

 

Today I feel thankful to live in a society where a kid could reply, with a straight face, "No, but we are in an exclusive relationship."

[+ quoththeraven]

Don't let anyone tell you things haven't improved.

 

Also,I would amend that to "unwilling to make ignorant assumptions," "polite lady" "or keeps current with the times" rather than "sensitive elderly lady who tries to be politically correct." It's labelling educating oneself and changing as "politically correct" that helped land us in this mess to begin with. There is a lot right, and very little wrong, with learning from new points of view that are not all about categorizing and running others down. That may include less use of the terms 'white trash' and 'redneck.'

[+ glennnn]

Don't let anyone tell you things haven't improved.

 

Also,I would amend that to "unwilling to make ignorant assumptions," "polite lady" "or keeps current with the times" rather than "sensitive elderly lady who tries to be politically correct." It's labelling educating oneself and changing as "politically correct" that helped land us in this mess to begin with. There is a lot right, and very little wrong, with learning from new points of view that are not all about categorizing and running others down. That may include less use of the terms 'white trash' and 'redneck.'

 

 

You are right! There is a huge difference between offending out of ignorance with no intention to demean or stereotype and using hot button language like "white trash", "nigger" or "faggot". The latter will never make anything better for anyone. It is just destructive no matter who is saying it.

[+ Truereview]

On the point about political correcteness, I often find that when I'm not sure what term to use, I simply ask:

• Do you prefer partner or husband or something else?
  
• Latino or Hispanic?
  
• Mike or Michael?
  

You can't offend when you ask genuinely and when you've given your conversation partner the right to put themselves in whatever box they like. With that said, I fucking hate boxes, labels, and categories. However, it is so fun to defy them.

[+ purplekow]

Don't let anyone tell you things haven't improved.

 

Also,I would amend that to "unwilling to make ignorant assumptions," "polite lady" "or keeps current with the times" rather than "sensitive elderly lady who tries to be politically correct." It's labelling educating oneself and changing as "politically correct" that helped land us in this mess to begin with. There is a lot right, and very little wrong, with learning from new points of view that are not all about categorizing and running others down. That may include less use of the terms 'white trash' and 'redneck.'

 

How can one be politically correct when almost everything one does and says is incorrect? I do not mean questionable or different thinking from what I am thinking or what most people consider polite. I mean morally corrupt and intellectually dishonest and ultimately cruel thinking individuals who spout venom like Old Faithful spouts water, regularly and with a lot of wind. There needs to be a term for that. There is no doubt that these people exist on this site and in every site electronic or real world. So whatever term might that be? No matter the term, it will be insulting and demeaning and basically exist because those people exist. It is one's duty to name those people. Not to endure them.

[+ quoththeraven]

@glennn and @Truereview, yes, let others self-define.

[+ quoththeraven]

How can one be politically correct when almost everything one does and says is incorrect? I do not mean questionable or different thinking from what I am thinking or what most people consider polite. I mean morally corrupt and intellectually dishonest and ultimately cruel thinking individuals who spout venom like Old Faithful spouts water, regularly and with a lot of wind. There needs to be a term for that. There is no doubt that these people exist on this site and in every site electronic or real world. So whatever term might that be? No matter the term, it will be insulting and demeaning and basically exist because those people exist. It is one's duty to name those people. Not to endure them.

 

I agree, but they're the ones bemoaning political correctness except when it means calling people they like racist in ways more subtle than racially-motivated violence. Threats to emotional security and mental health and dignity, ways of making non-whites feel unwelcome or that they're not equal members of civil society, are equally wrong and pernicious.

 

Let's start with "hateful," "ignorant" (which is why the spat between me and Kesslar was so ridiculous; there's a difference between not wanting to master every subject just because someone else thinks I should and general ignorance) and "white supremacy," shall we? As long as the Trump apologists on the forum don't advance facts or rational arguments, what is the point of engaging them for any reason than lulz?

 

'Bitter trolls" works, too.

[+ glennnn]

I just spent a week in Brooklyn in an Airbnb apt in a brownstone. The neighborhood was middle class, I think, with a nice mixture of African Americans, Caucasians, Hasidic Jews, Hispanics and what I think were SE Asians. In other words, mixed. We were three old white people (1 male, 2 female) and we were struck by how well we were treated by the community. We were coming and going at all hours and always felt safe. We spent a lovely hour touring a community food garden guided by two elderly black men, who were happy to load us up with late season vegetables ( most of which ended up being given to our gay landlord, Jeremy. ) People spoke to us, offered help, SMILED. The day we left, Keeshawn (sp?), a black man I met at the bodega on the corner, showed up to move our luggage down the stairs and out to the curb for taxi pick up. Gods! I was proud to be a US Citizen. We are okay!

[+ quoththeraven]

I just spent a week in Brooklyn in an Airbnb apt in a brownstone. The neighborhood was middle class, I think, with a nice mixture of African Americans, Caucasians, Hasidic Jews, Hispanics and what I think were SE Asians. In other words, mixed. We were three old white people (1 male, 2 female) and we were struck by how well we were treated by the community. We were coming and going at all hours and always felt safe. We spent a lovely hour touring a community food garden guided by two elderly black men, who were happy to load us up with late season vegetables ( most of which ended up being given to our gay landlord, Jeremy. ) People spoke to us, offered help, SMILED. The day we left, Keeshawn (sp?), a black man I met at the bodega on the corner, showed up to move our luggage down the stairs and out to the curb for taxi pick up. Gods! I was proud to be a US Citizen. We are okay!

 

Move to NYC!

[+ Charlie]

The lady I was referring to is a very sweet old fashioned Republican Christian from Ohio who has had quite an education living here in Palm Springs and playing tennis regularly at a club full of out gays and lesbians. I have played many matches with her, so I know she feels somewhat insecure about what to say that will not offend, especially since the gays she meets here range from those who are quite conservative to flaming queens. I play doubles with her regularly against another mixed couple in which the man is rather effeminate and has a male partner of many years standing, but made it very clear that he thought same sex marriages were a foolish idea and he and his partner would never marry; he stopped talking about the subject after I got married. Since terminology is a fraught subject even among gays, as an outsider she is not always sure what to say to whom. I could tell she feared she was really putting herself out there by referring to my "husband," a term I don't normally use. I probably should have said she tries to be "correct," although I do think of the terminology as inherently political (it will probably be a long time before the Republican Party will start referring to married gay males as "husbands," without a sneer).

[LookingAround]

If they are married then its husband. If not legally married it's partner.