Preemptive Apology and a car question

[bigvalboy]

Cannot turn it off on the new ones - per MBZ. I also had a GLK350 as a loaner and the feature was turned off. Later had a GLC300 as a loaner and could not turn it off!

 

Not all MB models and engines have the eco-mode. That feature is only available on certain model and engine combinations. It is a simple thing to avoid when buying, if people find it bothersome.

[mattr]

I rented a Ford Mondeo (aka Fusion in the US) in Germany last year. It was a diesel and had something equivalent to eco-mode. It was a little disconcerting for the first couple of days but after I got used to it, it was fine. When I got home and drove my 2008 4-Runner Limited, I missed all the bells and whistles in the Ford. I am also starting to think about a new care as my Toyota is approaching 90k miles so I will be interested in hearing what you decide. I am thinking about getting another 4-runner but the newer model is bigger than mine and I am not sure I want bigger.

[gallahadesquire]

I rented a Ford Mondeo (aka Fusion in the US) in Germany last year. It was a diesel and had something equivalent to eco-mode. It was a little disconcerting for the first couple of days but after I got used to it, it was fine. When I got home and drove my 2008 4-Runner Limited, I missed all the bells and whistles in the Ford. I am also starting to think about a new care as my Toyota is approaching 90k miles so I will be interested in hearing what you decide. I am thinking about getting another 4-runner but the newer model is bigger than mine and I am not sure I want bigger.

 

I rented a Ford Mondeo in England in 2001. They really need to change whatever model is "equivalent" here into that. (At the time, the equivalent vehicle was a Ford Taurus).

[LivingnLA]

My 10 cents....

 

Just felt a need to make a couple of points. I would not eliminate the entire VW family just because of that deception. VW has 10 brands, and certainly isn't alone when it comes to massive recalls. Think GM, Ford, Toyota etc. That said..The Audi and MB line of SUV's, traditionally are some of the most hearty and long lasting on the road. My experience is that repairs are not out of line with other manufactures. Audi is more car like with the large MB GL models built on truck chassis. My GL 450 was an incredible work horse. BMW is also excellent, although their X1 and X2 models should be avoided. They do not meet the same high quality standards as other BMW models.

 

All the Japanese models mentioned above would never disappoint, but you did mention luxury, and that means different things to different people. I personally do not feel the Japanese models meet that standard, so my ultimate vote for SUV luxury, durability, and styling would go to the Cadillac Escalade. Cadillac upped their game a dozen or so years ago, and have never looked back.

 

Purchasing a car to me is a very personal experience. Everything needs to feel right, if you are to enjoy it everyday...So take your time.

 

I missed the comment about "luxury" being a requirement. There aren't many luxury SUV options. The Cadillac Escalade is an option as are the biggest BMW and MB models and the Tesla X.

 

My family won't buy VW or GM for the foreseeable future. While many major car manufacturers have indeed had issues, we feel it's different when a corporation knowingly and intentionally subverts environmental and safety regulations and designs for profit. That decision to value money over human life is repugnant to us and we won't support such companies.

[bigvalboy]

Ford, Toyota and Chrysler, knowingly and intentionally did far worse. With the exception of Audi and Porsche, I personally hate Volkswagen's, so it is a non-issue for me. All these companies have dirty hands, but I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a Porsche or any one of a number of GM products that I find desirable. Each to his own, but you should purchase an automobile that allows you to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

[gallahadesquire]

I missed the comment about "luxury" being a requirement. There aren't many luxury SUV options. The Cadillac Escalade is an option as are the biggest BMW and MB models and the Tesla X.

 

My family won't buy VW or GM for the foreseeable future. While many major car manufacturers have indeed had issues, we feel it's different when a corporation knowingly and intentionally subverts environmental and safety regulations and designs for profit. That decision to value money over human life is repugnant to us and we won't support such companies.

 

Pardon my stupidity but: What did GM do?

[oscarkin]

Just went through this. Finally bought a top-of-the-line (Touring) Honda CRV. Somewhat bland but highly reliable and enough luxury items to make me feel at least a little bit special.

[LivingnLA]

A couple of years ago, GM was forced to recall somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 million cars, going back dozens of years and responsible for hundreds of deaths over the decades. They were accused of debating the cost of recalls as opposed to paying out wrongful death claims.

 

They were more than accused. Former employees came forward about how management demanded cost-cutting to maximize profit margins. Even more wonderfully, when GM went through it's restructuring, it insisted on structuring it--ultimately with government blessing--so that the new GM wasn't liable for anything the old GM had done because executives were worried about this growing scandal and the associated liability.

[mattr]

All companies create products that can potentially cause harm to consumers... it is called "acceptable risk" and they usually put aside money to pay lawsuits for those unlucky few that they know are going to negatively impacted by their products. Companies could create the perfect car (or any other product) but it would be prohibitively expensive. I am not excusing what GM or VW did, or in the case of GM, the tragic deaths of those people who died as a result of the problems. Every company is in the business to make money and there are known design flaws in every car that can take someones life, buyers just need to decide what they consider acceptable in a company they choose to do business with. I personally would buy a VW, Porsche, or Audi if one of their cars appealed to me at a price within my budget... what can I say, perhaps I am just a whore... LOL

[bigvalboy]

. I personally would buy a VW, Porsche, or Audi if one of their cars appealed to me at a price within my budget... what can I say, perhaps I am just a whore... LOL

 

LOL...you put a Porsche or Escalade in my face and I would become more than a whore, I would be anything you want me to be, and yes, once again, I'm that shallow. Your mileage may vary however..

[Kenny]

second the Escalade vote.

 

It's like driving around town in your living room!

And at 15 mpg, your mobile living room is a steal!

[Kenny]

Just an aside: not sure which new/newer cars have this but I know that MBZ and BMW do. It is the "start-stop" feature so that when you come to a stop there is a big thunk and the engine feels/sounds like it has stopped. Put your foot on the gas and it starts up again. It is incredibly annoying. With BMW's you can have it disconnected. MB told me you CANNOT. For that reason alone I have now ruled out MBZ.

You can turn it off on the MB with the push of a button, but I leave it on: Improves mileage significantly, and it doesn't really make a thunk. Took about half a day to get used to the car going quiet at a stop light.

[mattr]

They were more than accused. Former employees came forward about how management demanded cost-cutting to maximize profit margins. Even more wonderfully, when GM went through it's restructuring, it insisted on structuring it--ultimately with government blessing--so that the new GM wasn't liable for anything the old GM had done because executives were worried about this growing scandal and the associated liability.

 

Not with the government's blessing but at the governments behest. GM was essentially run by the government starting in 2009, during which time Steve Rattner, Obama's "Car Czar" planned and implemented the entire restructuring of GM and to a lesser extent Chrysler. A "thorough review" of GM was conducted and one can only surmise that the reason these problems were not made public at the time was either because the thorough review was not very thorough or, since the public had little appetite for the bailout, news of GM's blind eye to the unprecedented safety problems resulting from cost cutting would have made it even more difficult, if not impossible, for them to be bailed out by the government. Rattner is no prize himself... a highly connected Democrat (his wife was finance chair of the DNC for 5 years) worth a purported $200 million, he was accused of defrauding the New York State Pension fund and was investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission and NYS attorney general. He eventually personally paid a $6.2 million settlement out of his own pocket and his company, Quadrangle Group ($1.1 billion dollar private equity firm) paid $7 million settlement.

[LivingnLA]

All companies create products that can potentially cause harm to consumers... it is called "acceptable risk" and they usually put aside money to pay lawsuits for those unlucky few that they know are going to negatively impacted by their products. Companies could create the perfect car (or any other product) but it would be prohibitively expensive. I am not excusing what GM or VW did, or in the case of GM, the tragic deaths of those people who died as a result of the problems. Every company is in the business to make money and there are known design flaws in every car that can take someones life, buyers just need to decide what they consider acceptable in a company they choose to do business with. I personally would buy a VW, Porsche, or Audi if one of their cars appealed to me at a price within my budget... what can I say, perhaps I am just a whore... LOL

 

All true, but that's my point. GM was fine with saving a penny on 1 part because it was an "acceptable risk" for "only" a couple dozen people to die as a result. I understand no product is or even can be perfect as the time & cost commitments would be excessive. However, for those products that have the easy ability to kill humans, anything less than a "five 9's" engineering standard is ethically and morally irresponsible in my mind. It was also irresponsible in the engineer's minds at both companies but the amoral executives overruled them. That lack of humanity and compassion is precisely what must be resisted.

 

My personal choice is to not knowingly support companies who willingly and knowingly release products or services that blatantly ignore currently accepted environmental, humanitarian, and safety standards. Fortunately for me, my wife and kids agree. As more consumers become aware of this choice and decide to make it, we can hopefully promote a safer and more humane economy.

[LivingnLA]

Not with the government's blessing but at the governments behest. GM was essentially run by the government starting in 2009, during which time Steve Rattner, Obama's "Car Czar" planned and implemented the entire restructuring of GM and to a lesser extent Chrysler. A "thorough review" of GM was conducted and one can only surmise that the reason these problems were not made public at the time was either because the thorough review was not very thorough or, since the public had little appetite for the bailout, news of GM's blind eye to the unprecedented safety problems resulting from cost cutting would have made it even more difficult, if not impossible, for them to be bailed out by the government. Rattner is no prize himself... a highly connected Democrat (his wife was finance chair of the DNC for 5 years) worth a purported $200 million, he was accused of defrauding the New York State Pension fund and was investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission and NYS attorney general. He eventually personally paid a $6.2 million settlement out of his own pocket and his company, Quadrangle Group ($1.1 billion dollar private equity firm) paid $7 million settlement.

 

Good point of clarification. Thank you. The obsession with money and power by many in corporate America and how they're twisting government to their will, is all part of the problem. Neoliberal and neoconservative thinking are cancers on America's soul. They will kill us if we allow them to do so. But, I'm on the political line with this discussion, so stopping now before someone grabs the paddle to spank me.

[+ Funguy]

You can turn it off on the MB with the push of a button, but I leave it on: Improves mileage significantly, and it doesn't really make a thunk. Took about half a day to get used to the car going quiet at a stop light.

 

I was given a GLC as a loaner and both service rep and car agent said it could not be turned off permanently. It was so disconcerting and annoying that I tried not to drive the damn thing.

[+ Charlie]

Cannot turn it off on the new ones - per MBZ. I also had a GLK350 as a loaner and the feature was turned off. Later had a GLC300 as a loaner and could not turn it off!

Another reason why I am glad I have the earlier model. I actually appreciate the eco mode when I am driving in traffic in SoCal, where we often have very long stops at lights, but I turn it off when I am on highways or rural roads. One problem with it in very hot weather is that if one stops with the a/c on, the motor shuts off until the temperature in the car gets too high, then comes back on even if one is still sitting at the light, and if the light is really long, it may turn off and come back on again.

[gallahadesquire]

LOL...you put a Porsche or Escalade in my face and I would become more than a whore, I would be anything you want me to be, and yes, once again, I'm that shallow. Your mileage may vary however..

 

Past performance is no indication of future results.

 

You can turn it off on the MB with the push of a button, but I leave it on: Improves mileage significantly, and it doesn't really make a thunk. Took about half a day to get used to the car going quiet at a stop light.

 

I've had a Lexus hybrid for ten years. The start-top on the engine is a great feature. What drives some people mad is that, when you turn the car on (you don't really start is), the engine doesn't always turn on. I think that's why they didn't do a keyless ignition: The state of the car and the state of the engine are relatively unrelated. Even stranger is that, during the winter, turning the climate control off shuts the engine off, if all it is doing is creating heat for the cabin.

 

I haven't had a non-hybrid start/stop engine, so I can't comment. When the hybrid starts the engine, it just goes from not running to running, because the motors have so much torque. I can imagine that the "vaROOOM" of an engine starting again at a stop sign could drive one to drink [except that many of us do already].

[gallahadesquire]

Any thought on Mercedes Diesels? I know the old ones (like late '70's into the '80's) tend to live forever.

''

[Nvr2Thick]

Drive an MDX. I think you'll find that the nine-speed transmission is very smooth. With a four-speed automatic I've found that Hondas/Acuras sometimes "hunt" between gears, and you feel the strain as the engine races at 3rd or lugs at 4th if you're at precisely the wrong speed. With nine gears the hunt between any two gears should be much less pronounced. The effect of the nine-speed is the opposite of what it seems that you expect. More gears is better; a CVT is effectively a multi-speed transmission where the number of gears approaches the infinite.

 

If you're comfortable with the price of an MDX I don't think you should bother with the Pilot. Pilots are nice but bland. I found the CRV to be kind of cramped inside. I think that Highlanders are as bland as Pilots. The fact that you've expressed an interest in MDXs and Mercedes make me think you should stay in that class.

 

If you're looking for something more offbeat look at the Honda Ridgeline. They used to be pretty much a Pilot pickup, but I think that the restyling of both Pilot and Ridgeline have created some differences. Ridgelines are absurdly useful. The back seat folds up for lots of in-cabin storage, and there's a trunk under the bed. The all-wheel-drive handles incredibly well. Gas mileage is pretty lousy though.

[Kenny]

I was given a GLC as a loaner and both service rep and car agent said it could not be turned off permanently. It was so disconcerting and annoying that I tried not to drive the damn thing.

No, it can't be shut off permanently (without a complicated adjustment to the computer system). But turning a switch when you start the car isn't a whole lot of trouble, either.

[rvwnsd]

No, it can't be shut off permanently (without a complicated adjustment to the computer system). But turning a switch when you start the car isn't a whole lot of trouble, either.

A friend bought a BMW and took delivery at the factory. He sold it after a year because it was over-engineered. Although his car did not have the feature you are discussing, it reminds me of him and his car.

 

He still loves the Honda hybrid he bought as a replacement.

[+ Charlie]

My M-B GLK is the base model, with no extra options, and I still can't figure out how to use most of the basic technology on it. Some of the basic controls are also different from other cars I have owned or driven, and my spouse sometimes just sits there trying to remember how to make it move.

[bigvalboy]

I love technology...You guys lost me a few posts back.