I don't want to destroy this friendship.

[Guest zipperzone]

>>And how can your parents truly love you if they have no

>idea

>>who you reallya re?

>

>You might ask that question of some of the escorts here who

>conceal what they do from their parents.

 

That's a huge stretch to equate telling your parents you're gay as opposed to telling them you're a prostitute!

[Guest zipperzone]

>I disagree, as there is profit in finding out that your family

>loves and accepts you for who you are, as a gay man and there

>is gain in finding out that knowledge. It really is

>presumptive of you to judge them as "never understanding"

>isn't it? Sounds like you are the one making presumptions and

>judgements against them.

 

Why would you disagree? I presume the poster knows his parents considerably better than you do. Is it so fat-fetched to believe that his perception of them might be accurate?

[Guest zipperzone]

>I could care less whether you drive 75 miles or 75,000 miles

>or whether you tell your family that you are gay or not and my

>emotional state, is sure as hell, not contingent on your

>admission of such. I know that such a stance is abrasive to a

>"center of the universe" attitude.

 

If you "could care less" then perhaps you should explain to us why you are getting all bent out of shape over his personal feelings?

>

[woodlawn]

>That's a huge stretch to equate telling your parents you're

>gay as opposed to telling them you're a prostitute!

 

Why?

[woodlawn]

RE: Defining "Gay"

 

>>My gayness is *part* of who I am, not the totality. It does

>>not rule my life as it apparently does yours.

 

>I'm a gay man, and yes it is the DEFINING trait of my

>existence in all areas including sexual attraction, acceptance

>in society, legal rights, employment rights and just basic

>human rights. Do you know how pathetic it sounds when people

>use the argument that it is *part* of who I am, not the

>totality? That comes across, as defining to yourself that gay

>is ONLY about who you have sex with, and if that is your

>limited definition of what it is to be gay, then you are not

>gay, so take a DEEP breath since you don't have to worry about

>announcing to your family that you are gay!!!!!!

 

 

I can't agree with what you are saying here. No one on this board has been elected by the gay men of America to define for the rest of us what it means to be gay -- although some who post here certainly ACT as though they were elected to do that. Neither you nor anyone else has any right to create the exclusive definition of "gay" and insist that anyone who doesn't fit that definition stop thinking of himself as a gay man.

 

Many don't agree that sexual orientation is or should be the basis of everything one does. To give an example, in 2000 Bush got more than a million votes from people who identified themselves as gay and lesbian. And there are still plenty of gay and lesbian voters who back him despite the fact that he wants to insert in the Constitution a provision that will forever deny them certain basic civil rights because of their sexual orientation. Clearly, for those people, there are issues they consider more important to their lives than their sexual orientation.

[+ Charlie]

To me, the most interesting comment in your original post is his question about whether you are "gay", and your response, "Yeah, with YOU" (my emphasis). Your post seems to have relatively little to do with being gay, and a lot to do with your emotional obsession with this one particular person. He doesn't sound like a closeted gay man to me, but he is obviously intrigued by your interest in him. There also seems to be a somewhat sadistic element in the way he is playing with you. From your description, it sounds like this is a "friendship" in which he has always had the upper hand: he has given you a great deal, in a practical sense, and in recompense you have given him adoration. What he has given may not seem as valuable to him as it does to you. I don't think the answer is either to have sex with him or to find another man to sleep with; the answer is to understand the dynamics of the relationship and figure out an effective way to balance it so that you deal with one another as equals, at which point he may not appear as godlike as he does to you now.

[Guest Merlin]

I also think your friend may have a sexual interest in you as well. When he said "I hope you are not", he may have been hiding his own feelings. I suggest you tell him you are gay. If he rejects you, you will be ending a friendship which is causeing you misery and will continue to do so. If he continues the friendship it will be a better friendship for you even if he does not share your feeling. If you parents cannot accept it, I would not tell them. BUT you have to live your life too. These are your best years sexually, so do not put off your life thinking that when they are gone you will begin to live the life you want. They may live much longer than you think, and you will be have let your life pass you by.

[jackhammer91406]

...I don't understand if he hates gay, why

>he wants to hang around with me and insists me to stay at his

>house every weekend?

>

>Thanks for reading such a long post and for your kind advise.

 

First, welcome to the board.

 

I read your post and all of the responses and while others have debated what the rules are or should regarding each individual's coming out and living openly, I was most struck by the statement above.

 

Unless I misread you post, you are not out to your family or to him (only a half hearted reference jokingly said in response to his question). Perhaps then you could clarify for me if you think your friend must already know that you are gay ? If that is the case, then his repeated invitations may or have significance.

 

In any case, it is your responsibility to manage the friendship in such a way as to not cause you this suffering. Whether you come out to your family or friends is ENTIRELY your choice, you owe nothing to the movement. Some will (and have) suggested that this problem is because you are not out or worse, that you have such low regard for yourself, that you have let yourself and the gay rights movement down. Bull____!. Each of us makes our way through this decision and one can only hope you can find some gay friends who can help and be supportive instead of confrontational. As Lucky said, it is a difficult choice to make for many reasons, some of which include family.

 

My hope is, that you can detach yourself just enough to maintain the friendship without encouraging an unrealistic hope for an affair with this guy, until you and he have made some serious life decisions.

 

I wish you all the best in this.

[Guest jarrodbui]

>There also seems to be a somewhat sadistic element in the way he is playing with you.>

 

Thanks Charlie and Merlin for your posts. I would definitely tell him that I am gay and having strong feelings for him, IF ONLY he did not know about my family. My concern is that he may tell my family about that.

 

You are right, this is like a sadistic "cat-and-mouse" game! I did run away from him and go overseas for two years. But he still tried to keep in touch with me, searching to get my new phone number. He always calls me "Bro" or "Brother". My heart beats fast whenever I get his e-mail or hear his voice on the phone on Friday morning asking me to stay over for the weekend. I have a lot of straight friends and never get into this situation like this. The fact is that he seems to get too intimate with me (spiritually) that made me fall for him. I've refused to spend this weekend with him, quoting that I'm busy for something else. He told me that he will have dinner with a female co-worker this Sat., which get me jealous secretly!

 

I am no longer a teenager, but you see how childish I am now!

[Boston Guy]

Hi and welcome to M4M!

 

It seems to me that the questions that you asked above and the answers and advice that you have been given -- much of it good and well-meaning -- miss the mark. You are asking us what you should do about your relationship with your friend when there seem to be much more fundamental questions for you to deal with first.

 

To deal briefly with the issue with your friend: you are cleary infatuated with this guy but are afraid of the consequences that will ensue if you tell him how you feel. We must assume that you know your friend and your families well and are an accurate judge of how they will react. Based on your description of your situation, my first recommendation is to back away from this situation with your friend. Moving forward with it at this time will open a can of worms that I do not think you are yet prepared to deal with.

 

Next, and much more important: you have to come to terms with your own life, with who you are, where you are going, what you want from life, how you want to spend it, and what is important to you.

 

You are asking us how you should deal with what is essentially a gay relationship when you haven't even fully admitted to yourself that you are gay. This is a classic case of putting the cart before the horse.

 

So, to begin: who are you? Are you a gay man agonizing over his sexuality and how to be happy? Are you a straight man who is happy having sex with women but who has a crush on just one guy? Are you somewhere in the middle?

 

Where are you going, not professionally (it sounds like you have that under control), but personally? Where do you want to be in ten years or twenty? Is it more important to you that you live a life that is personally satisfying to yourself, in which you are happy in your own skin, or a life that is traditionally acceptable according to those around you? If the first, then that will lead to a certain set of actions and decisions. If the latter, you will take another path.

 

However, I must warn you that history is replete with examples of people who have tried to live their lives in a way that would make others happy and proud of them. If taking such a path means leading a life that is contrary to who you actually are then it's unlikely that you will ever find true happiness and may in fact be quite unhappy. I'm not saying that a gay man cannot be happy living a life as a husband and father; quite the contrary, as many gay men have found. But it's much more difficult and you are more likely to be unhappy. The situation you are in right now -- where you are agonizing over a problem and find it impossible to confide in those who are closest to you -- demonstrates the kind of life you may lead if you decide to try to live your life in hiding.

 

So I think you should try to make a fundamental decision, a decision is so important that it may inform the entire rest of your life and may well affect those who are around you today and those who will populate your life in the future. Put simply: are you gay?

 

In order to answer this quesion, strip away all of the things that seem critical to you right now. Strip away your feelings for your friend. Strip away the expectations that other people place on you, from parents to friends to colleagues. Forget everyone else for a little while and try to decide if you are gay or straight. How you deal with that answer, with parents and friends and others, is a different question. But, being as honest with yourself as you can be, what is the truth of who you are? Are you gay or straight?

 

If you cannot answer that question, then you are not ready to address any of the other questions either. In that case, I'd advise you to embark on a path dedicated to determining if you are gay or not.

 

If you can answer the question and you believe in your heart of hearts that you are straight, then some of the other answers become easier. Your parents will be pleased, you should turn your attention to women and do whatever is necessary to convert your feelings for your friend to those of simple friendship. If necessary, put a lot of time and distance between you and him as you spend more time with women.

 

On the other hand, if you believe truly that you are gay, then you need to begin to find your way as a gay man. You must become comfortable with yourself and your own worth as a human being before taking any steps to come out to friends or family. There are things you can do that will help you on this path.

 

But one of things that I think you should do is put distance between your and your friend. This relationship that you have with him is unhealthy and harmful to you. It is unlikely at any time in the near future to bring you happiness and it may well keep you from taking other steps that are more likely to lead you to personal happiness.

 

If you are gay, or even strongly suspect that you are, I think you should consider your location. You are surrounded by family and (presumably) close straight friends. This may not be the best place for you to try to understand what it means to be a happy gay man. You might want to consider relocating to someplace with a large gay population where you can have more privacy than you have now.

 

Barring that step, if you are gay, I strongly urge you to begin to make some gay friends. Notice I did not say boyfriends or lovers; I said friends. You need to begin to populate your life with close friends who understand the kinds of things you are going through and who may have gone through similar crises themselves. Friends can be invaluable in helping us figure out how to live a happy, honest life.

 

It's entirely possible to live a happy, contented, fulfilled life as an out gay man -- and never really come out to parents or family. Many guys take this choice. They and their families remain close and operate in a sort of "don't ask-don't tell" environment. I'd say that more gay men, probably, do end up coming out to their families and enjoying good, open relationships with them. But that's not a step to take until (1) you are comfortable with who you are; (2) you think they may be ready to hear the news; and (3) you have a good, strong network of friends who you can fall back on in case your family takes the news badly.

 

Regardless of whether you move, I'd recommend that you find a gay community where you can make some friends. Remember that friends don't have to be guys that you want to go to bed with. In fact, often, it's better if you're not attracted to friends that way. You may find good friends who are much older than you or much younger or who come from very different backgrounds. And where can you find these future friends?

 

Well, one place to consider will be gay bars, just because lots of guys hang out there. But if you go to the bars, don't make the mistake of only talking to guys you are atracted to. And when you meet people, tell them that you are just coming out and looking to meet people. Many guys will remember their own first few times and will be considerate. Or you can go to community centers or volunteer at places where other gay men will be, such as AIDS crisis centers. Or find a copy of a local gay magazine or newspaper and look in it for an event calendar. Then go do things and be open and friendly. You'll meet good people soon enough.

 

Eventually, you'll understand yourself a whole lot more. Only then, I think, will you truly understand how you want to deal with your friend and your family. Remember that there is no rush or urgency here. You can deal with these issues in your own way and in your own time.

 

Good luck. And please do let us know how things are going.

 

BG

[HooBoy]

My Magic Memory Eraser apparently did not wipe the memories that just came flooding back.

 

On the days I turned 16, 18 & 21 I expected some adult metamorphosis and yet, I woke up exactly the same person. I had the same expectations when I admitted to myself I was gay, actually thinking my wrists would go limp. (In those days, we did not have icons to look up to like New Jersey Governor. James E. McGreevey, Rosie O'Donnell, Congressman Ed Schrock or Pee Wee Herman, to name a few. ;-))

 

Jarrodboi, as my lawyer says, when there is a will, there is a way to get in it. If your situation requires you maintain a wall between you and your family, that is your lot in life.

 

During my raging 20's I had two perfect male friends. One, I crossed the line with (in my sleep, of course) and it destroyed our closeness. With the other friend, I resisted my sexual urges until he eventually became an old cynical man who I found unattractive.

 

Sadly, the person who cares least about a relationship controls it and it sounds to me like you are on the short end of the stick on many levels because you appear to be a caring, sensitive person.

 

I wish you well.

 

(Being here is not wrong, but don't expect to find happiness...with the right person you may get a momentary respite.)

[eastbayguy]

BG--excellent post. I think you supplied some valuable guidance and words of wisdom.

 

 

jarrodbui--I would like to suggest a book for you to read. The book is "Outing Yourself" by Michelangelo Signorelli. I believe the book is now out of print. This book is a good guide to gay living. The book starts with figuring out if you are gay, and moves onward from there. I have a copy and dig it out once a year or so and read it.

 

A library near you should have a copy or be able to inter-library loan it. Please give it a read. The book is full of practical and mostly down-to-earth information.

 

Hang in there. The situation you find yourself in can not be fun.

 

--EBG

[Guest jarrodbui]

>>So, to begin: who are you? Are you a gay man agonizing over

>his sexuality and how to be happy? Are you a straight man who

>is happy having sex with women but who has a crush on just one

>guy? Are you somewhere in the middle?

>

>>Put simply: are you gay?>

 

BG. You ROCK. Thanks a lot for your excellent post. You surely put a lot of time and efforts to write it.

 

Regarding your simple question, I'm afraid I can not answer it myself.

Call me corward. Call me liar. I have no other choice. I still think that a happy family consists of husband & wife and children. I have sometimes met some old fat man (I'm sorry to say that - No offense please) on the subway trying to touch me when the train gets through a dark tunnel. And I related it to myself, how about me in 20 or 30 years later without a family. Will I do the same, trying to touch young boys on the bus or in the bar? It's just so lonely and...unbearable. I also like beautiful women and find them attractive. I have a crush on this friend of mine because he's so... handsome. That's my problem. Congratulations to anyone who can "out" himself without any hesitation. I remember to have read from somewhere: "The greatest love of all is to love yourself". I'm in a crisis, I can not love myself if I definitely confirm that I am gay. That's why you hear about people committing suicide, because they hate themselves for being weak, for being stupid, for failure.

 

Thank you HOOBOY for creating this forum so that guys like me can find a place to ease my pain. It does mean a lot. From now on, I will surely keep a distance with the guy and hopefully will find some peace of mind. Peace and God bless.

[+ Lucky]

"IF LOVING HOOBOY'S M4M ESCORT REVIEW IS WRONG, THEN I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT"

 

Not much chance of that!

[Boston Guy]

First, no one will call you a liar or a coward if you're not ready to admit to being gay. All of us who are out -- each and every one of us -- has gone through some kind of coming-out process. And most of us found it a difficult and challenging thing to do, particularly those of us middle-aged or older who had to come out in pretty much a complete absence of any positive gay role models.

 

Coming out necessarily involves serious self-examination and often admitting to ourselves things that seem foreign and strange. It can also involve a casting out of dreams and goals that we may have cherised for our entire lives. It's not necessarily for the faint of heart and it's not surprising that you consider it a difficult proposition to consider.

 

But there's something to hang onto: coming out is about truth. It's about being honest with ourselves about ourselves. We can choose to hide various aspects of who we are from certain people or even lie about who we are or what we feel. But we should at least be honest with ourselves. And that honesty is what is at the heart of coming out. For the first person that we have to come to is ourself.

 

You wrote above that you are in crisis and that you cannot love yourself if you confirm to yourself that you are gay. I'd like to suggest a couple of things for you to consider. First of all, on a really fundamental level, you are who you are. You cannot make yourself be something you are not, just like you cannot tomorrow decide to be four inches taller. Just as you have a certain height, you have a certain sexuality. Whatever that sexuality is, it's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's simply what it is and you should try to be honest about something so intrinsic to your nature.

 

Someone who is 5'7" may think that it would be better to be 5'11. But he will never be 5'11" and it doesn't make any sense at all to anguish over something that cannot be. It's far more sensible, I think, to learn to be happy with who and what we are. The same thing goes for sexuality. If you are a straight man, then choose to be a damned happy straight man. On the other hand, if you are a gay man, then choose to be a happy gay man. Trust me, it's possible.

 

So the first thing is to recognize that there is this characteristic about you that we often call sexuality and that it is mostly like set and not likely to change. If you are, in truth, gay then you are most likely going to be gay for your entire life and there's not much you could do to change that. Certainly, you could choose to live a straight lifestyle, get married, have kids, etc. But the truth about who you are will most likely not be altered by these choices. So, since it's so basic and not likely to change, it's best to be honest with yourself.

 

Then, please understand that being gay does not equate to turning into a dirty old man on the subway trying to touch boys. There are lots of dirty old straight men trying to touch girls but that doesn't mean that straight guys have to end up that way. It's all about choosing the right courses and trying to live a good, happy life, one that's rich with opportunity and experience, and to bring into our life people who make us happy.

 

How we live our lives as gay men is entirely a different question from whether or not we are gay. The latter is not up to us, not really, but the former is largely under our control and directed by the decisions we make each day. If you want to be happy, you can be.

 

And straight people in straight relationships have no lock on happiness. I know lots of happy couples. But I know others who are pretty miserable and many other couples that have ended in divorce. We are brought up to think that the "Ozzie and Harriett" lifestyle with a Mom and a Dad and a couple of kids in a white house with a picket fence is what we should all aim for. And that's exactly the right thing for some people. But it's not the only lifestyle in which one can be happy and it's certainly not the best for gay men and women.

 

I would suggest to you that if you are gay, trying to live a sham life as a husband to a straight woman is not fair to yourself and certainly not fair to the woman who would be your wife. Each woman deserves a chance to find true love with someone who is really attracted to her.

 

So, finally, back to basics. Before you can address this crisis that is troubling you, you have to figure out who and what you are. And if the answer is that you are gay, then you have to just accept right now that being gay in America today is not a death senence or even a sentence to a lonely life. Instead, there are many, many ways today to be gay and happy.

 

BG

[woodlawn]

>Regarding your simple question, I'm afraid I can not answer it

>myself.

>Call me corward. Call me liar. I have no other choice. I still

>think that a happy family consists of husband & wife and

>children. I have sometimes met some old fat man (I'm sorry to

>say that - No offense please) on the subway trying to touch me

>when the train gets through a dark tunnel. And I related it to

>myself, how about me in 20 or 30 years later without a family.

>Will I do the same, trying to touch young boys on the bus or

>in the bar? It's just so lonely and...unbearable. I also like

>beautiful women and find them attractive.

 

 

I wouldn't call you a coward or liar simply because you don't want to fit the mold that some people on this board think you should. You must keep in mind that no one who posts here is without an agenda of his own. For some of us, urging others to make the same choices in life that we have made is a way of justifying our choices. That doesn't mean those choices are the right ones for you.

 

There is a spectrum of human sexuality. At the extreme ends of the spectrum are people who are attracted only to the same sex or only to the opposite sex, respectively. In between are people who have feelings in varying degrees for others of both sexes. In America, just as anyone who has any black ancestors is automatically classified as "black" despite the fact that he may have more white ancestors than black ones, anyone who has homoerotic desires is automatically classified as "gay" even though his homoerotic desires may be only a part of his sexuality. If that is the case with you, it may not make sense for you to give up whatever life you have at the moment, move to some gay ghetto and spend your free time hanging out at gay bars so that you can learn to be a "happy gay man."

 

Finally, I would urge you to consider the circumstances of the people here who are giving you advice. I intend no criticism of them by saying this, but you owe it to yourself to ask whether the way they are living shows that they are qualified to tell others how to live happy lives. This website is for men who want to hire male prostitutes, presumably because they can't find sexual fulfillment in other ways. Your comment about ending up a lonely old man looking for opportunities to connect with younger men certainly describes some of the people you will encounter here. You should consider what sort of results you are likely to achieve if you make the same choices they did.

[Boston Guy]

Woodlawn:

 

I agree with much of what you say and certainly think he should consider all of the advice he's being offered carefully. None of us really know each other here or the conditions of each other's lives. Any information offered on an Internet message board should be carefully considered rather than simply accepted.

 

And it seems that we both agree that he should try to figure out who he is and what he wants. The problems associated with labelling people "gay" and "straight" have been discussed here before and it's good of you to bring that up. Perhaps he's someplace in the middle; many of us are.

 

Having said that, it would seem that he's in the middle of a crisis that directly relates to his sexuality and his attraction for another guy. He's not out and it doesn't sound like he has a lot of gay friends or other resources that he can reach out to. In cases like this, the Internet can offer a true lifeline. We've seen it happen here before, where someone really needed to talk through some issues and various people here responded -- as you have -- with kindness and generosity.

 

I stand by my advice to try to meet some gay men and to make some gay friends. It would be better for him to be able to discuss these kinds of things with people he knows and trusts, people he can look in the eye. Barring that, I hope he can take enough from what's offered here to be able to relax and step back a bit from his crisis and then give himself enough time to think through where he wants to go with his life.

 

You've contributed to this thread several times. It was good of you to do so. He's far better off being able to consider several points of view instead of taking only one as Gospel truth.

 

Regards,

BG

[jackhammer91406]

Lifelines in cyber space

 

BG,

You and Woodlawn both make good and concerned points in your responses.

As one who has benefited from using this forum to reach out and discuss issues I was having trouble with, I can attest to the value of having some kind of safe place to seek advice on issues that can sometimes feel overwhelming.

 

It is a blessing that you and Woodlawn and many others take the time to offer your viewpoints and observations. You benefit more people that you will ever know.

[woodlawn]

> Any information offered on

>an Internet message board should be carefully considered

>rather than simply accepted.

 

You can say that again!

 

> In cases like this, the Internet can offer

>a true lifeline. We've seen it happen here before, where

>someone really needed to talk through some issues and various

>people here responded -- as you have -- with kindness and

>generosity.

 

Thanks, but I don't think someone who is truly confused about his sexuality should do ANYTHING based on advice he gets from some anonymous strangers on a message board. What he should do is seek counseling from a therapist who specializes in such issues and who is qualified to diagnose and treat his problems. You and I are really just guessing about what is going on here.

 

 

>I stand by my advice to try to meet some gay men and to make

>some gay friends. It would be better for him to be able to

>discuss these kinds of things with people he knows and trusts,

>people he can look in the eye. Barring that, I hope he can

>take enough from what's offered here to be able to relax and

>step back a bit from his crisis and then give himself enough

>time to think through where he wants to go with his life.

 

If someone came to this board and described some physical symptoms he was having I wouldn't feel qualified to try to diagnose his problem and prescribe medication or other treatment for him. By the same token, I don't feel qualified and don't think others here are qualified to diagnose and prescribe for psychological problems. That should be left to professionals.

 

 

>You've contributed to this thread several times. It was good

>of you to do so. He's far better off being able to consider

>several points of view instead of taking only one as Gospel

>truth.

 

Thank you. I think your advice was well-intentioned, as always. But I stand by what I said regarding the tendency of people here to advise others to make the same choices they've made. There is to my way of thinking an element of self-justification in the behavior of gay men who constantly make pitying or patronizing remarks about others who have homoerotic feelings but who don't want to adopt the "gay lifestyle" in which one's entire life revolves around being gay. They simply can't seem to understand that sexuality is not exactly the same for everyone else in the world as it is for them.

[Boston Guy]

>Thank you. I think your advice was well-intentioned, as

>always. But I stand by what I said regarding the tendency of

>people here to advise others to make the same choices they've

>made. There is to my way of thinking an element of

>self-justification in the behavior of gay men who constantly

>make pitying or patronizing remarks about others who have

>homoerotic feelings but who don't want to adopt the "gay

>lifestyle" in which one's entire life revolves around being

>gay. They simply can't seem to understand that sexuality is

>not exactly the same for everyone else in the world as it is

>for them.

>

 

I think it's a given that sexuality is something that ranges broadly over a spectrum and varies from person to person. In the end, each of us is the only person who will truly understand our own sexuality. But there are broad themes and it's possible to learn from the successes and mistakes of others and to use that information to try to find a good path for our own lives. Seeking information here or elsewhere on the Internet shouldn't be the only thing someone does while dealing with a personal crisis. But, absent other options, it can be a good start.

 

Your suggestion that he seek professional help may be right on the mark, for him. When I was coming out, hundreds of years ago, I went through a few weeks of a fair amount of anguish and then one day woke up and decided that I'd pitied myself long enough and that it was time to accept myself for who I was and get on with my life. Since then, I've been more or less happy. I've seen other guys get through it more easily and others suffer for years, even with the help of therapists and psychiatrists. I think that the key to happiness is accepting ourselves and then trying to live a good and happy life. But a lot of guys come into this with a heck of a lot of negative baggage about what it means to be gay and that makes it very difficult to accept themselves in anything like a positive light.

 

Regarding the advice each of us offers, it seems likely that those of us who are happy and content will naturally offer advice that may be similar to the choices we made or that our friends made in our quest to find personal satisfaction and happiness. I'm not sure that's really self-justification. I'd see it more as a "I've been there and this worked for me" kind of thing. But, once again, it's good that you offer a different perspective. Although it may seem confusing to the gentleman who started this thread, it gives him more to chew on as he tries to determine what he should do.

 

Finally, I'd caution against the "gay lifestyle in which one's entire life revolves around being gay" sort of thing. That most certainly does not describe my life or the lives of my friends and it probably doesn't describe the lives of most of the guys here. It's sort of a pejorative message that seems to want to dismiss all of the people who live in urban areas with large gay populations as a bunch of silly queens -- kind of what most straight people think when they see the inevitable drag queens on display at every large gay pride parade.

 

My experience has been that my gay friends in various cities are leading lives that are full and interesting and as varied as the lives of my straight friends. If the lives of these men are "revolving around being gay" because they're in a gay relationship or are meeting and dating gay men or going to places where other gay men congregate, then the same logic could be applied to people living elsewhere whose lives "revolve around being straight". It's kind of natural for people to seek friends who share common interests and gay men and gay women are no exception to that. I think gay men who don't have at least a few good gay friends are missing out on something that I find very valuable. I cannot imagine what it would have been like to live my life without any gay friends to turn to, to share my happinesses and sadnesses with -- to simply share life with.

 

BG

[woodlawn]

>Regarding the advice each of us offers, it seems likely that

>those of us who are happy and content will naturally offer

>advice that may be similar to the choices we made or that our

>friends made in our quest to find personal satisfaction and

>happiness. I'm not sure that's really self-justification.

 

I believe I referred to people who make pitying or patronizing remarks about anyone who has homoerotic desires but does not regard them as being the center of his existence. You must have noticed several such remarks in this thread. I certainly noticed them.

 

>Finally, I'd caution against the "gay lifestyle in which one's

>entire life revolves around being gay" sort of thing. That

>most certainly does not describe my life or the lives of my

>friends and it probably doesn't describe the lives of most of

>the guys here. It's sort of a pejorative message that seems

>to want to dismiss all of the people who live in urban areas

>with large gay populations as a bunch of silly queens -- kind

>of what most straight people think when they see the

>inevitable drag queens on display at every large gay pride

>parade.

>

>My experience has been that my gay friends in various cities

>are leading lives that are full and interesting and as varied

>as the lives of my straight friends. If the lives of these

>men are "revolving around being gay" because they're in a gay

>relationship or are meeting and dating gay men or going to

>places where other gay men congregate, then the same logic

>could be applied to people living elsewhere whose lives

>"revolve around being straight".

 

I think the phrase "revolves around being gay" applies to people who choose a neighborhood because it's one in which they are surrounded by gay men, whose social lives are centered around gay bars or clubs or gyms, and who spend all or most of their free time trying to hook up or otherwise indulge their sexual desires. One of the themes of the film "Broken Hearts Club" is that there are gay men who live such lives and that -- in the opinion of the screenwriter, at any rate -- it isn't a very healthy way to live.

 

I guess you could say that straight people who spend all of their free time trying to hook up -- like the characters in the novels "Bridget Jones's Diary" and "Booty Nomad" -- have lives that "revolve around being straight." I wouldn't apply the term to straight couples who choose a neighborhood because it's near good schools or because it's full of families they and their kids can interact with. I'd just call them "sensible."