HIV+ ethics

[Guest scorthirer]

As my first post, I am wonder how you guys, both escorts and clients, feel about somone who is poz hiring escorts.

 

Should he tell them he is poz?

 

Should he abstain?

 

Can he just hire withous saying anything if he is very careful about being safe?

[+ Charlie]

Do you tell non-escorts that you are poz before you have sex with them? Why would you treat escorts any differently?

[guptasa1]

>As my first post, I am wonder how you guys, both escorts and

>clients, feel about somone who is poz hiring escorts.

 

I can only speak my own viewpoint in my response, but I certainly don't mind sharing how I feel.

 

>Should he tell them he is poz?

 

I absolutely feel this is something that needs to be fully and clearly disclosed up front (on both sides of the equation; clients and escorts both who know they're poz). I think the person being told needs to have all the information he can to make a decision on whether or not to both go ahead with it and also what extra measures he might take. While a lot of people's stance seems to be that sexual practices should not vary and you should always assume your partner could be poz, in reality I'm not sure this is always the case, and I think some people might vary what they want to do with that information (whether that's a good practice or not).

 

>Should he abstain?

 

That's a tougher question. If I was poz, I certainly wouldn't want to abstain from all sex, and I'm sure finding another poz partner can be challenging. I honestly can't say whether I'd abstain or not. I think I would feel a huge dilemma there that would take some time to sort out (I tend to be a little paranoid about that sort of thing, and I'd probably be very afraid I'd pass it on to someone else). However, I'm willing to cautiously say that if his status is fully disclosed and safe sex is practiced and it's understood and okayed by both parties, I don't think there's anything wrong with it - it's a choice between two people.

 

>Can he just hire withous saying anything if he is very careful

>about being safe?

 

From my perspective, no. I want to be careful with this example, because in reality it's not very parallel at all, and I don't want to equate being poz with being drunk at all or offend anyone with it - I think it just works for this aspect of the topic. But, say someone's a little drunk but thinks they can drive home if they go slow, so they don't tell their friends and try it. Everything might end up fine, but why not just disclose that and be extra safe about it and let your sober friends drive? Or in the escort example, disclose, have everyone comfortable with the situation and taking precautious, thus yielding an even safer situation.

 

Just my two cents.

[sdgaypornfan]

g

Great post. Thanks for expressing views many of us hold but may not be as articulate.

Personally I feel that both client and escort have moral obligation to disclose status. I applaud the few escorts / porn models that have disclosed their status. Usually the disclosure follows them performing in a bb video, but some few, Kristian Brooks to name one, disclosed prior to his bb videos.

Question, Do promoters like Tom W of Rentboy.com who promotes events all over the world and brings with him a cadre of positive escorts / porn boys have any responsibility for the actions of the guys they promotes?

[Guest scorthirer]

>If you would meet with me, you wouldn't need to tell me your

>HIV status, because I decided long ago that my health is my

>most precious posession. Without good health, everything

>stops, so I stick to safe sex (even if someone claims to be

>HIV-).

 

I appreciate your answer, Anton.

 

A previous answer said that it was necessary to disclose. I wonder how often that statement would NOT be a conversation stopper. ("Hi, I'm HIV+ and want to hire you." click, dial tone!)

 

I don't see a lot of difference between disclosing and abstaining form hiring.

 

 

>Have fun hiring! :9

Thanks. I have so far.

[guptasa1]

>A previous answer said that it was necessary to disclose. I

>wonder how often that statement would NOT be a conversation

>stopper. ("Hi, I'm HIV+ and want to hire you." click, dial

>tone!)

 

I admit I don't have an answer to this. However, I think it's safe to say there are escorts (like Anton) who would still set something up. I'm also sure there are some escorts who would not feel comfortable in that situation, but I'd personally rather know that up front.

 

Also, there are a lot of more tactful ways of addressing this. As long as the poz person emphasises he always play safe, I think some escorts will definitely still be interested.

 

Just my opinion.

[Guest ncm2169]

< Should he tell them he is poz?

 

Yes.

 

Disclosure is only tantamount to refraining from hiring if the positive client can't find an escort who's OK with it. There are positive escorts who are known to be positive, and there are undoubtedly a lot more who are but it isn't known, and presumably an escort who is positive wouldn't object.

[Guest]

I read a few months ago an article interviewing porn star, escort, and now porn director Michel Lucas. He said he has sex with thousands of men, and remained HIV negative. He just plays safely. Likewise, I've had sex with hundreds of men and also remained HIV negative. Surely, some of the men I've had sex with have had HIV. I hardly think that there's anyone on this planet who doesn't know how HIV is transmitted and how to avoid it. I feel a person should only need to reveal his HIV status if unsafe activity is planned (although anyone who does unsafe activity will end up seroconverting before long, no matter what his partners may admit to or not).

[Brian26]

I have worked on and off in this biz for a few years, and I've traveled the world with some pretty amazing clients. I've learned many things, seen many things, and had some wonderful experiences with some wonderful people.

 

As a working boy myself, my #1 statement TO ALL CLIENTS, is that I am HIV neg, and wish to remain that way, and it's my preference to see clients who are also HIV negative. It doesn't mean unsafe sex - it just means extra precaution.

 

While - I know how HIV and AIDS are transmitted, and I understand the importance of playing safe, and I understand I am always at risk if having any kind of sex - I still want to know if a client is poz or not.

 

I believe we have a moral (what about legal) obligation to inform our partners (paid or not) if we are HIV poz. One person responded he didn't tell his "normal" partners so why tell an escort. YIKES!!!! is what I say. Furethermore, as if Escorts are beneath any other "partner."

 

Thru the years I've found many escorts are MUCH safer than bar tricks. Many escorts take precautions in keeping themselves AND their clients safe - which is what I pride myself in doing. Many escorts are the ones to EDUCATE THE CLIENTS about things such as this. I salute the boys out there that are keeping sex safe, and who are TALKING ABOUT IT, and who are staying on top of the info about health.

 

We should ALL be talking about it - and we should all be taking an active part in keeping the world safe - not hiding information. There are boys out there (poz and neg) who don't mind seeing HIV poz partners.

 

I think communication is the key here. And I think we should all be looking out for one another's well being.

 

Hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I just feel very strongly about honest communication.

 

Brian - Los Angeles

[sdgaypornfan]

Brian,

Really good post.

[Guest Mikel]

It seems to me that it is a mute point as to whether or not it is ethical to reveal one's HIV status - whether as a client or as an escort.

 

Of course, I think that good ethics mandates honesty and forthrightness. Should be no debate here.

 

The reality of the world we live in is, however, one muh less than perfect where everyone first of all agrees upon what is moral and ethical and secondly lives up to ethical standards. That is just simply the reality.

 

Therefore, one has to be painfully and perhaps deadly naive to accept as truth a statement from a stranger that their HIV staus is negative. You simply do not know if they are accurate. You simply do not know if they are truthful or if they have compromised what you consider to be ethical but they do not share the share values.

 

Sorry, but I am lost in this discussion as to whether someone should or should not reveal their HIV staus. It presumes a potentially lethal mistake - that everyone shares the same ethics and that everyone is 100% honest 100% of the time. As I started out...it is a mute point. If someone tells you they are positive, you have no reason to doubt them. If someone tells you they are negative, you have no reason to believe them. That is the bottom line!

[guptasa1]

I think this is a great discussion, all. With a lot of people with great points and perspectives. (Even if I don't agree 100% with a perspective, I respect you all).

 

I guess for me it comes down to a few things.

 

I ALWAYS play safe, so that's not an issue. That said, would I have sex with someone I KNEW to be positive? Honestly, I'm not sure I can answer that at this time - I'd have to decide if the situation came up. I certainly know there are some GREAT poz guys out there, and I certainly would have poz friends in a heartbeat, but knowing someone was positive and having sex would open up some anxiety doors for me that I'm not sure how I'd deal with (which is more of a personal issue than anything). I can't even sincerely say I wouldn't at least be tempted to take additional (and probably unnecessary) precautious. I think I would probably get over it, but as a non-escort, I suppose that's a situation I just haven't dealt with yet. And I can see where ignorance could be bliss in this situation (again, always safe sex, so I'm not taking any MORE risk). I hope I'm not offending anyone by what I'm saying, as that isn't my intent at all - I'm just being honest about my feelings regarding this issue. It's something I'm not entirely comfortable with even in myself.

 

That aside, I also have to agree with the honor point. I just feel like telling a potential partner one's status, even if positive, is the right thing to do, regardless of whether he's an escort or not. (Or as an escort, a client.) That gives the other person the chance to evaluate their own feelings and see where they're comfortable (as there ARE escorts out there who choose not to see definitively positive clients, and I'm sure vice-versa). Safe sex is wonderful and eliminates most of the risk, but condoms do break, and mistakes can happen (though one should immediately get treatment as soon as that happens if they think there's even a chance of HIV). I test regularly because I'd want to inform any recent partners if I got an STD, and I simply respect anyone who'd treat me the same. Or anyone who'd tell me up front so I can deal with my anxieties and we can talk about it.

 

Again, I respect verying opinions on the subject, and I think there are a lot of different well-thought-out viewpoints here. It's a tricky subject, and one it's good to see discussion of.

[+ Lucky]

Mikel,

Really good post.

[ready182]

My first point, at the risk of being cliche, is that there is no such thing as safe sex -- only safer sex.

 

My second point, is that realizing the first point, each of us must weigh both the benefits and potential risks of our actions.

 

A third "thought", is that I would LIKE to think that professional escorts, and perhaps especially those who work for reputable agencies, keep to a higher standard of safety, both with respect to HIV, but also other STDs such as Hep-B. However, I am not so naive to always assume so.

 

One escort (whom I've met) has posted on this M.C. that half the escorts he knows are HIV+. Makes ya think, don't it?

 

As they used to say on "Hill Street Blues", let's be careful out there.

 

And I do so much love rimming and swallowing -- such a delima! Anal w/o a condom - never 4 me.

 

Ready

[pierrot]

I think there's a great deal of hypocrisy going on here. First I don't see any posts by anyone admitting to being poz. Secondly, I haven't seen any ads on Rentboy or reviews on Hooboy of escorts admitting to being poz. I do not for a moment believe that all of the escorts listed on those sites are negative. Nor do I believe that everyone reading these posts is negative.

Furthermore, I think that if many of the posters who take the moral approach of "honesty always" were to sero-convert tomorrow, few of them would hold the same views.

Imagine calling a total stranger that you wanted to hire and telling this person you are HIV+ and you'd like to have sex with him. Ok, so Anton took an enlightened attitude. But I think that would be rare.

Sorry guys. I think you're being Pollyannas in this case.

Advertising a poz status is tantamount to abstinence. I don't think most guys are up for either near-abstinence or for the honesty with strangers that would precede it.

Of course it's easy to be "honest" if you think you're positive. And I emphasize the "think." Do you also tell him how many guys you've had sex with this month?

The old saw is correct, just assume whomever you're having sex with is positive.

[Flower]

>I think there's a great deal of hypocrisy going on here.

*****

>First I don't see any posts by anyone admitting to being poz.

*****

>Secondly, I haven't seen any ads on Rentboy or reviews on

>Hooboy of escorts admitting to being poz.

*****

>Sorry guys. I think you're being Pollyannas in this case.

*****

>Advertising a poz status is tantamount to abstinence. I don't

>think most guys are up for either near-abstinence or for the

>honesty with strangers that would precede it.

*****

>The old saw is correct, just assume whomever you're having sex

>with is positive.

 

 

 

Finally, some posts that make sense on this topic--but only the last few, including yours. It started out similar to a conversation that only idiots or people with way too much time on their hands have about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin--which is stupid since we all know angels cannot dance.

 

If this were a perfect world, then people would neither lie, cheat, steal nor bash gays just because they are gay. And if this were a perfect world we wouldn't be having this conversation since hopefully there'd be neither HIV nor AIDS.

 

And Brian ( a few posts above)...anyone who selects his sex partners based on their statement that they are negative, strikes me as foolish or naive, or worse--even if the person making the statement thought they were being truthful, you certainly must realize that there are usually a string of negative test results before the first positive one!

 

While rare, I have come across a few people either in escort ads or in other hookup sites that say they're poz--but kudos to the escort, who is obviously financially affected by his honesty--I think it takes a lot of balls and keen sense of morality to do so; when I've seen such an ad I've sent an email saying so, even if the escort isn't my type or out of the area or I never intend to meet with him for other reasons, I want to let him know his integrity is appreciated. A couple even post on the MC once in a while--from San Diego, Seatle and Los Angeles just to name a few. I wouldn't hessitate to have sex with anyone of them, IF they were otherwise my type.

 

AND I will, as I have said before, have sex with a poz person, and quite frankly, it changes very little--I treat everyone I have sex with as if he were poz -- period.

 

While we can discuss and debate all day about the ethics of revelation, the bottom line is that EVERYONE is responsible for his own health and safety in matters that he has the ability to control and understand. While I truly hate cigarette companies for their early deception and fraud, and support many of the verdicts against them, anyone who starts smoking NOW is a fool, and loses his right to divert blame. Likewise, narcotic addiction is not always the pushers' fault--there has to be someone who JUST SAYS YES! All of these statements, of course, presuppose and age and mental capacity to evaluate and realize the risk, potential harm, and causal connection.

 

The poz person that knowingly says he's negative and having deceived, gains his partner's trust for unsafe sex, is morally reprehensible. His partner, however, is a fool.

[guptasa1]

>Furthermore, I think that if many of the posters who take the

>moral approach of "honesty always" were to sero-convert

>tomorrow, few of them would hold the same views.

 

While I certainly respect your opinion and can certainly attest to the fact that sometimes being in a certain situation DOES indeed change one's viewpoint, I've given this a lot of thought. I play safe, am negative, and hope to stay that way, but IF I were to sero-convert tomorrow as you put it, I would certainly hope I'd still feel the same way. I honestly believe if I chose to continue hiring escorts (or seeing anybody for that matter) in the future, I *would* disclose my status even though it would be an incredibly difficult thing to do and even if a lot of people turned me down because of it.

 

>Imagine calling a total stranger that you wanted to hire and

>telling this person you are HIV+ and you'd like to have sex

>with him. Ok, so Anton took an enlightened attitude. But I

>think that would be rare.

 

I'm honestly not sure. I feel like a lot of guys would turn you down at that point, but I think there are definitely escorts who would agree if you played safely.

 

>Sorry guys. I think you're being Pollyannas in this case.

>Advertising a poz status is tantamount to abstinence. I don't

>think most guys are up for either near-abstinence or for the

>honesty with strangers that would precede it.

 

I admit having sex might be more difficult with the honesty approach. I don't think it equates to abstinence however. I think that takes it too far.

 

>The old saw is correct, just assume whomever you're having sex

>with is positive.

 

I can't argue with that. I think human nature sometimes doesn't always do that fully, but ideally, I agree.