On the Way to the Forum

[Will]

When I was growing up, ladies who'd been out of the loop while they were climbing back on the wagon at a private funny farm would apologize for their ignorance of the latest gossip by remarking coyly, "You'll have to excuse me, but I've been away."

 

So have I, though not because I needed to dry out. Actually, I'm not sure why I've been away; and because for years I didn't let a day pass without logging on, this morning I decided to review the Message Center for threads of the past week or so, just to get the current lay of the land. It was then that I discovered BostonGuy's long thread about his own absence, and the myriad replies to it. I couldn't read them all, but it was heartening to see some familiar handles, such as Bucky, TY, Doug69, and, of course, BG himself.

 

I don't know how long this site had been up when I came across it in the autumn of 1999. But I do know that for almost five years it has been at the center of my communication with other gay men. Precisely because M4M has provided a forum in which to meet other gay men and talk with them about things that really matter to me, I would be hard pressed to communicate to other posters what a salutary effect M4M has had on my psychological well-being. My gratitude to HooBoy and the Moderators is enormous.

 

Men who live in urban areas where gay company is ready to hand, or young men who take the freedom to be out as much for granted as they take their preferences in music, or sexually empowered men who don't understand why anybody should make a fuss about finding life-enhancing partners for sex: these men may not have reason to empathize with the value of this site as a social organization.

 

As for me, I hunger for intelligent, articulate, and sensitive gay companions more than I do for sex, certainly, or even for a life-partner. Despite the vastness of the net, however, I have been unable to find even one other site where I can enjoy the company of adults who share some of my concerns as a gay man. Therefore, when the well goes dry -- at the moment there seems to be one of those seasonal droughts of mind-gripping threads -- I miss the nourishment that I've been able to draw from this site for a long time.

 

In recent months it seems that the kinds of threads I can get my teeth into don't elicit much response. They seem to die quickly, and some of the wiser denizens of M4M seem to be uninterested in working together to knit something interesting out of them. That's not a complaint so much as a lament. Like BostonGuy and others, I greatly miss some of the genuinely engaged threads that used to pop up with greater frequency than they seem to have done of late; I greatly miss the sense of comraderie there used to be; I greatly miss the contributions of escorts who used to post.

 

M4M is still, so far as I know, the only forum like it on the entire web. I'm not sure what that means, if anything. Surely it doesn't demonstrate that gay men are just as narcissistic, self-loathing, silly, superficial, and fixated on their genital apparatus as some of their detractors would maintain. But where would you go for the evidence to prove those detractors wrong?

[+ Charlie]

Welcome back, Will!

[woodlawn]

>In recent months it seems that the kinds of threads I can get

>my teeth into don't elicit much response.

 

How many threads exploring the sex drives of senior citizens can one actually read? I suppose not everyone finds that topic as gripping as you do.

 

> I greatly miss the

>contributions of escorts who used to post.

 

Me too. I guess the anti-psychotic medications that several of them are now taking put a crimp in their desire or ability to participate.

 

 

>M4M is still, so far as I know, the only forum like it on the

>entire web. I'm not sure what that means, if anything.

>Surely it doesn't demonstrate that gay men are just as

>narcissistic, self-loathing, silly, superficial, and fixated

>on their genital apparatus as some of their detractors would

>maintain. But where would you go for the evidence to prove

>those detractors wrong?

 

I'm not sure I understand the above. If there were lots of forums like this one on the Web, wouldn't THAT tend to prove that gay men are as narcissistic, silly, superficial and sex-obssessed as many people believe? Those characteristics are on constant display in this forum, of course, but if most gay men really share those characteristics then wouldn't there be many more forums like this one?

[eastbayguy]

Hi Will. Glad you've resurfaced.

 

>As for me, I hunger for intelligent, articulate, and sensitive

>gay companions more than I do for sex, certainly, or even for

>a life-partner. Despite the vastness of the net, however, I

>have been unable to find even one other site where I can enjoy

>the company of adults who share some of my concerns as a gay

>man. Therefore, when the well goes dry -- at the moment there

>seems to be one of those seasonal droughts of mind-gripping

>threads -- I miss the nourishment that I've been able to draw

>from this site for a long time.

 

Agree 100%, there has been a bit of a dry spell here. The humor of a few posters is sorely missed. The though-provoking discussions are definitely not around much lately. Sort of electronic oatmeal, soft and easy to chew. Like you, I too miss the more informed threads, about some of the rougher aspects of gay life. Part of the problem is that I think a lot of people, myself included, are very focused on the election. I've been putting in a lot of time volunteering here and there on things I believe to be important. An awful lot of quality posters just don't come around much any more.

 

>In recent months it seems that the kinds of threads I can get

>my teeth into don't elicit much response. They seem to die

>quickly, and some of the wiser denizens of M4M seem to be

>uninterested in working together to knit something interesting

>out of them. That's not a complaint so much as a lament.

>Like BostonGuy and others, I greatly miss some of the

>genuinely engaged threads that used to pop up with greater

>frequency than they seem to have done of late; I greatly miss

>the sense of comraderie there used to be; I greatly miss the

>contributions of escorts who used to post.

 

Add my name to the list. Have tried to get a couple things going myself, but you just don't get much response. The camaraderie and trust of the past is absent these days. There are a lot of factors, not sure I care to go in to them all now. I do appreciate all the work I know this site takes, both for the operators, moderators and posters.

 

So do you have any thoughts on how to change things? What might help? I am definitely eager to put some work in to a few good postings. Please share any thoughts you might have.

 

--EBG

[Will]

>Part of the problem is that I think a

>lot of people, myself included, are very focused on the

>election. I've been putting in a lot of time volunteering

>here and there on things I believe to be important.

 

That would be a welcome reason indeed. Thanks and congratulations for your volunteer time. Occasionally it seems to me that most Americans don't really seem to grasp what's at stake in this election. Why would anybody want "Four More Years" like the ones we've already had??????

 

>So do you have any thoughts on how to change things? What

>might help? I am definitely eager to put some work in to a

>few good postings. Please share any thoughts you might have.

 

I don't think it's possible "to change things." At least, I don't think it's possible to change other people and I'm pretty certain that in the long run it would be a bad idea. What could happen would be for some people to post brief threads simply stating something they're interested in, concerned about, or want to share. If enough of those popped up in a short time, it might encourage others to suggest topics, and still others to contribute whatever they have.

 

It would also help for people to make a list of contributors who obviously enjoy trying to hurt other people and hinder good-natured if heated discussion. Then, they could simply skip over those posts, as I have learned to do. If someone who seems pathologically bloody-minded has something of genuine interest to say, maybe he'll learn to temper his bad manners so that other people will want to read what he writes. Until that happens, I just scroll on by.

[jacobno]

I dropped out of the picture while in a relationship, occasionaly lurking online and seeing what the current topics were (and sometimes doing a search for my name :-) ). I've been slowly easing back into escorting and posting, but no topics seem to have much reason to respond.

 

From the little I've read in the past year I think some escorts have dropped off the message board due to being lambasted whenever they typed in their opinions to another poster's disgruntlement. By giving their opinions they no longer were the nice picture, blank slate (not meant as a deregatory comment, just meaning the client may not know much about them) that usually comes along with hiring an escort. Perhaps staying a blank slate makes one most compatible with the largest client base.

 

 

"Bear up bison, never say die" - Shonen Knife

[marc anthony]

This has absolutely nothing to do with this topic... except for the fact that I am reacting to your name on this post...

 

But did you know Jake, that you bear a remarkable resemblance to Bobby Thompson of LA? Similar personality, similar body type, and similar face.

 

BTW.. that is wonderful for both of you.

 

:9

[eastbayguy]

>That would be a welcome reason indeed. Thanks and

>congratulations for your volunteer time. Occasionally it

>seems to me that most Americans don't really seem to grasp

>what's at stake in this election. Why would anybody want

>"Four More Years" like the ones we've already had??????

 

Oh I agree. Except, most people don't see the squeeze they are in, or any of the bigger picture. Plus, change always seems to make people nervous. Meanwhile, I'm happy to help out. I've gotten over 800 people registered to vote. (Mostly gay men.) All are entered in a database, so they'll get a phone call reminding them of who to vote for and to be sure to go vote.

 

>I don't think it's possible "to change things." At least, I

>don't think it's possible to change other people and I'm

>pretty certain that in the long run it would be a bad idea.

>What could happen would be for some people to post brief

>threads simply stating something they're interested in,

>concerned about, or want to share. If enough of those popped

>up in a short time, it might encourage others to suggest

>topics, and still others to contribute whatever they have.

 

I've tried the brief thread posting and been mostly greeted with deafening silence. While admittedly my interests can lean toward the esoteric, I'm surprised that so little response has arisen. No, I didn't imply changing the behavior of posters. But, I would love to see a few people sort of band together and resume having a nice conversation. Sort of like things used to be.

 

>It would also help for people to make a list of contributors

>who obviously enjoy trying to hurt other people and hinder

>good-natured if heated discussion. Then, they could simply

>skip over those posts, as I have learned to do. If someone

>who seems pathologically bloody-minded has something of

>genuine interest to say, maybe he'll learn to temper his bad

>manners so that other people will want to read what he writes.

> Until that happens, I just scroll on by.

 

An ignore button might be nice, especially for those who don't ever seem able to take their meds. Sadly, an awful lot of people are just not able to gloss over the hurtful posts. Plus, those who have to be heard in ever topic add a great deal of noise.

 

So, to your point above, here are a few topics I'm interested in at the moment. Any ring your chimes?

 

Houseplants

Landscape Architecture (especially my front lawn)

Defeating Bush

Figuring out whether the HRC is on the right track

Investigating how to start a GLBT community center

Sunday afternoons around the pool

Finding myself a new job/career/something to do

Sirius Satellite Radio (the Out-Q station is big fun)

Raising citrus at home (got a small but growing orchard)

 

Some recent books I've read:

 

Longitude (utterly fascinating)

Northern Lights

Outing Yourself (I read this one every year or so)

 

--EBG

[MTLover]

I don't disagree with the premise of the original post, but one possible reason for the tamer topics could be the present state of discourse in this country. Due in some part to the media (I'm talking about shows like Crossfire, and the pervasive Fox News Channel,) it seems like public discourse has deteriorated to ugly name calling and intolerance for dissenting opinion of any kind. It's what helps breed dull (safe) topics in a forum like this since you (I) would like to be able to communicate with some civility without it dissolving into bad feelings and vengeful retort. I am a very recent lurker/poster to this board, so I do not have the benefit of having experienced its 'golden days' (I truly wish I had been aware of it sooner) but what I have seen at times did not entice me to contribute to an already nasty dialogue much like the ones you see everyday on 'news' television. I add to threads which interest me, (Montreal-related, Reality TV shows) and have less opportunity of turning ugly. These aren't necessarily important, thought-provoking topics, but I am not seeing thought-provoking topics being discussed in a manner in which I feel obliged to participate. (My biggest fear of the next election is how will Jeb & company come up with new ways to screw with the Florida vote-I don't see how "W" (given his record) can be elected without election-day shenanigans. Do fundamentalist Christians really outnumber the sane among us?)

[Guest zipperzone]

>I've gotten over 800 people registered to vote. (Mostly

>gay men.) All are entered in a database, so they'll get a

>phone call reminding them of who to vote for and to be sure to

>go vote.

 

I'm sure you mean well but if you really have to phone them to tell them who to vote for and then phone them to get them to go out and vote........... strikes me as a lost cause.

[Guest zipperzone]

>(My biggest

>fear of the next election is how will Jeb & company come up

>with new ways to screw with the Florida vote-I don't see how

>"W" (given his record) can be elected without election-day

>shenanigans. Do fundamentalist Christians really outnumber

>the sane among us?)

 

God - what a scary thought. I don't think they out number us (oops, I should say you as I am a Canadian) but the big differance is that they are focused and determined and will vote even if they have to get to a polling station by ambulance. The other side (the sane side) tends to be more apethetic and that could well be their downfall.

[eastbayguy]

>I'm sure you mean well but if you really have to phone them to

>tell them who to vote for and then phone them to get them to

>go out and vote........... strikes me as a lost cause.

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I don't do the phoning personally. The local party does the phoning. I have no idea what mechanism they use. But, for years, I've gotten a call a day or two before the election reminding me that election day is at hand and to be sure and vote.

 

--EBG

[Trixie]

Will, I LOVE your opening paragraph... exactly what town did you grow up in? Or, did you grow up on the set of a Tennessee

Williams play?

Now, I agree that things have been a little bit dull around here lately. Personally, I prefered the days when the Ethans, the VaHawks, and that pro-palestine guy (what was his name?) were around. They made things so much more interesting!

There were evenings I laughed so hard I spit up over the things that were said here! And really, that's the reason I came (I am a bawdy gal, after all).

But, I have to say, you old-timer posters who complain about this board, you all have got to either post, or shut up.

What is it that you're missing so badly? I don't have the time to search through the archives to find out what threads turned your crank, nor do I much have the will to do so.

Post! Who cares if you get deleted now and then?

Post! Make a stupid joke, and see if anyone gets it!

Post! This is a site about fantasies (even the political forum!). So speak your mind and heart, start new threads,

reply to old ones, make friends and enemies...

and don't forget to breathe.

 

 

La Trix

[Rick Munroe]

>I greatly miss some of the

>genuinely engaged threads that used to pop up with greater

>frequency than they seem to have done of late;

 

Will, I agree with you but I also agree with Miss Trixie; you yourself have started some great threads in the past and you need to just start doing it again. But yes, there's the possibility that they will die, not from disinterest but from a fear of backlash. Unfortunately, one sentence we often see lately is: "I'm sure I'll be ripped apart for saying this, but..." I don't think we need to fear that, guys. Just remember that most of you are completely anonymous here, so who cares if someone posts something nasty or belittling or whatever in reply to your post? Just ignore it and pay attention to the replies that, whether they agree or disagree with you, are interesting, engaging and respectful. Or, if you get turned on by the nasty and childish posts, pay attention to those. But don't be afraid to get involved here. There's a lot to be gained here when we all participate. Just do it.

 

>I greatly miss

>the sense of comraderie there used to be;

 

I was watching Newlyweds the other day, and Nick was trying to explain that he and Jessica could get one husky and one smaller dog, that there would be camaraderie between the two different types of dogs. Jessica was confused because in her mind, "camaraderie means attention." Isn't it just so sad that this is what passes for "comedy" today? :-(

 

>I greatly miss the

>contributions of escorts who used to post.

 

Me, too. It would be nice if there were more of us posting here. If you counted up the number of escorts who post in forums other than Escort Travels, you'd still have enough fingers to comfortably shove up a virgin's ass without lube (that was my Gay New Yorker version of Tennessee Ernie Ford).

[woodlawn]

RE: Gated Community

 

> Or, did you grow up on the set of a

>Tennessee

>Williams play?

 

I think you may be on to something there.

 

 

>Now, I agree that things have been a little bit dull around

>here lately. Personally, I prefered the days when the Ethans,

>the VaHawks, and that pro-palestine guy (what was his name?)

>were around. They made things so much more interesting!

>There were evenings I laughed so hard I spit up over the

>things that were said here! And really, that's the reason I

>came (I am a bawdy gal, after all).

 

His name was Ad rian (at least one of them was). But I think the posters you (and I) miss are exactly the sort whom Will and his pals want to ignore. Although they go on and on and on about wanting to be part of a "community," the community they have in mind is not one that evolves when people of widely varying backgrounds, opinions and manners show up and decide to hang around. The community they want is very much a "gated community" in which only people whose ideas and manner of expression meets with their approval are allowed to stay, while everyone who does not fit that description is excluded in one way or another.

 

You, Trix, do not sound like the "gated community" type. Neither am I.

[tedbear]

>I'm sure you mean well but if you really have to phone them to

>tell them who to vote for and then phone them to get them to

>go out and vote........... strikes me as a lost cause.

>

 

It's been a long-standing tradition, at least in Chicago, to do just that. Volunteers call before and on election day to encourage voting (and to vote for a particular candidate). Volunteers offer to provide transportation, babysit, whatever it takes to get a voter to the polls.

 

And gaining a single vote is far from a lost cause. If I remember correctly, in the 1960 election of John F. Kennedy, if an average of one person per Illinois precinct had not voted for Kennedy, Nixon would have won that election. A single vote, taken to the most local level, can be very powerful.

 

(Of course, may joke about Chicagoans voting "early and often" and how some cemetaries could be precincts all by themselves, but in modern policitics, there are too many eyes watching).

[Rick Munroe]

>in modern policitics, there are too many eyes watching

 

But unfortunately, when there is no paper trail for electronic voting, there's nothing to watch.

[+ cougar]

Very good points made here regarding how "calm" things have been around here for the past few months. I too have at times found some posts by some on here to be just alittle too personal and degrading. Like rick says there are somethings I would like to say on here, but will sometimes just pass up cause I can always expect some to chew me a new ass. Not to say their chewing isn't really out of line.

I came on this MC in November last year with a big bang. Had just been stood up by an escort for a weekend trip, we had experienced 19 dates within a year and him not showing up after I had started the trip, was just something I wasn't prepared for. It was a lively post and alot of issues were discussed and well I did get some chewing from a couple of posters, but I survived.

Haven't seen to many deep discussions here lately and I do miss them!

[Will]

I remember that thread! And I also remember how it started -- with your explaining your situation -- but that it quickly became a kind of mini-forum. There's no way to "create" that sort of thing, of course. But if enough of us try to dig in to interesting ideas where and how the pop up, we can probably get some good e-chat going here again.

[Will]

>Will, I LOVE your opening paragraph... exactly what town did

>you grow up in? Or, did you grow up on the set of a

>Tennessee

>Williams play?

 

Well, sort of. My father was born and reared in Alabama, and my mother was born and reared in Virginia. My brother, sister, and I were born and reared in Alabama, but we spent every summer in Virginia; and I went to boarding school in Virginia. So I'm not inventing the ladies who had "been away:" I myself have plenty of relations of both sexes who "went away." By the time I was six years old I knew how to minister to a lady undergoing an Attack of the Vapors (fanning, smelling salts, a cool handkerchief on the forehead, and just a drop of brandy), which were almost inevitable in a hot, humid climate where women never appeared in public without a girdle, stockings, hat, and gloves. Like a lot of Southern writers known for their dialogue (Flannery O'Connor, Harper Lee, Eudora Welty, Truman Capote), Tennessee Williams just kept his ears open!

[Will]

In my original post I tried to avoid sounding as though I were complaining. I was merely making an observation, and I stick by it. Many, many times in the past we've hit these dry spells; I and others have done our bit by starting what we thought were interesting threads. While I'm eager to do my part to keep things lively, however, I don't think any single person is responsible for the welfare of a message board on the internet. If the majority of men want to take up the job of doing their best to keep things hopping, then it will be great. If the majority wants to dumb down and talk down, there's nothing to be done. It's like a presidential election, with the blessed exception that no Supreme Court will simply nod to one or the other group and annoint it Queens for the Day.

[Trixie]

Sigh. There's a big part of me that dearly loves the South. It as a certain shabby-genteel mystique that drips from everything, humidly, like spanish moss. I have a fantasy to retire to a little antebellum cottage, somewhere on the outskirts of a town like Savannah, or Beaufort SC, and live my golden years as the lunatic "thing" that all the children in town are afraid of.

 

 

Dixie Trixie

[chrismac]

I used to live in the South. You can have it! The humidity, the tenacious desire to appear slow, the bugs. But I am generalizing.

 

The best view I ever had of Atlanta was in the rear-view mirror heading west on I-20 at 70 miles an hour.

[Guest zipperzone]

>I was watching Newlyweds the other day, and Nick was trying to

>explain that he and Jessica could get one husky and one

>smaller dog, that there would be camaraderie between the two

>different types of dogs. Jessica was confused because in her

>mind, "camaraderie means attention." Isn't it just so sad

>that this is what passes for "comedy" today? :-(

 

Rick: I know this is "off-topic" from the main thread - but as you mentioned "The Newlyweds", I just had to throw my two (Canadian) cents in!

 

As moronic as the show is I will watch it for as long as it is on, just to drool over Nick. He is one hunk and a half. How he puts up with the lame brain he is married to is beyond all reason (although I have wondered if she is really that stupid or is it just an act - stupid like a fox?)

 

When Nick has his shirt off and is wearing those jeans slung low on his hips I slip in and out of cardiac arrest.

 

What an escort he would make!

[+ Charlie]

Perhaps the reason there is no other forum on the Web quite like this one is because gay men who hire escorts AND ARE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT IT are more intelligent, adventurous, curious, self-confident and articulate than most other people. (This assertion will probably draw scathing comments from some of the usual suspects, but why should I care?)