Five Rentboy Defendants Seek Plea Bargain

[+ stevenkesslar]

To put it another way, the CEO of Rentboy claimed he did not engage in the facilitation of prostitution, but he refers to himself s a pimp. Pimps facilitate prostitution. I would be surprised if he is not asked to explain that. I do not think (nor did I express or imply) his email address spawned the investigation that led to the raid.

 

I will add that I think there is more to the story than an H1B visa and hosting escort ads. It will not surprise me if financial misdeeds are revealed when the case goes to trial.

 

I think I understood what you meant. Now we're both just into repeating ourselves, but I think only for purposes of clarification, because I think we're mostly in agreement.

 

I agree with you that the use of the word "cyberpimp" was stupid. Like you, I don't think that it spawned the investigation. It was more the icing on the cake in DHS's complaint. It's a minor detail.

 

Your point, I think, is that if you go by what one lawyer I know called the "smell" test, or the "laugh" test, it actually does "smell" like the facilitation of prostitution, and if you argue in court that it has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with that, it may not pass the "laugh" test. My point is that by that standard, you could shut down RentMen and just about any other female or escort website, as well. Maybe that is in fact what's next in line. Assuming we're now at the plea bargain point, that to me is the next question up for consideration: what if it doesn't stop here? The only thing you said that now does actually sound unlikely is that this case will actually go to a trial. If they in fact get 5 of the 7 to plea bargain, the next likely step is what happened to Redbook: they may get the CEO to cop a plea that is less than they'd potentially get at a trial, but will avoid having to go to trial.

 

If you haven't already, check out the 60 Minutes piece Lookin posted on the "Rentboy office raided" thread. To me that gets to the core of this. There are way way way worse things being done on the Internet, involving real trafficking and real drugs and real guns and real violence. So if the standard is that we're gonna take down websites because the CEO openly uses words like "cyberpimp," I get that it's stupid, and that you can argue it invites trouble. But I still think it's dumb to go after Rentboy simply because you can. It invites the reaction that occurred: why pick on this website now? And even if it comes out that Rentboy did facilitate things like underage kids using Rentboy to sell themselves, is shutting down Rentboy going to really stop that? I don't think so. Is driving it offshore going to make it more likely that a foreign website cooperates with US law enforcement? I don't think so.

 

We really do agree. My point is that the standard that is being set here is basically unenforceable, because its based on a prohibitionist mindset that can't be carried through, and the harder the government tries to enforce it, the more likely it is to cause more and more reaction that will simply result in the whole thing being a mess, and in doing more harm than good.

 

I'm pretty sure I know how I feel about this issue, way more than I did the day the bust happened. I hope that what we gradually return to is the kind of defacto decriminalization that existed the day before the Rentboy bust. To me, that actually makes more sense than having to go through a long political battle about actual decriminalization, which is likely to happen anyway, given what Amnesty International is advocating, and is also likely to be a huge distraction. To me, the best way to attempt to decriminalize would be locally, in places like San Francisco, where something in the ballpark of a majority of voters actually came close to approving it, and where you potentially could have a cooperative network of community-based groups and open-minded police that could make it work reasonably well. If DHS or any other agency instead goes on a tear and starts shutting down more national websites, it will drive a reaction and a direction that I don't really see as being in their interest, or ours.

 

My real hope is that this started because of the H1B visa, it ends with this, and that to the degree that the government wants to keep on finding and fighting real trafficking, it uses the kind of technologies 60 Minutes profiled in Lookin's thread, which in my mind have a lot more potential to be effective uses of technology and the government's resources.

[dannyboynyc]

Given the amount of time, effort and resources needed to arrest the defendants, this entire thing never made sense to me - unless there is a tax evasion angle. Assuming there's no tax evasion angle a friend of mine read an interesting observation - with the recent legal wins we've had, those right wingers in power needed something to slap down the gay community. This is the first theory I've heard that makes sense - although that's all it is - a theory.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Assuming there's no tax evasion angle a friend of mine read an interesting observation - with the recent legal wins we've had, those right wingers in power needed something to slap down the gay community. This is the first theory I've heard that makes sense - although that's all it is - a theory.

 

Yeah, that's the thing. The Obama Administration is just so right wing, it's unbelievable. It makes total sense that he sicked the cops at DHS on the LGBTQ community to slap us down. Next thing you know Obama will be nuking the Iranians and saying black lives don't matter. What's gotten into him? Clearly, those crazies in the White House have no respect for our community, and are just pandering to the Right Wing!!! :eek:

 

http://www.jpost.com/HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?ID=290987

 

[+ FreshFluff]

ITo put it another way, the CEO of Rentboy claimed he did not engage in the facilitation of prostitution, but he refers to himself s a pimp. Pimps facilitate prostitution. I would be surprised if he is not asked to explain that. I do not think (nor did I express or imply) his email address spawned the investigation that led to the raid.

 

Funny email handles are common at many tech companies. The CEO was careless in many ways, but I doubt the prosecution could do much with this one.

[+ azdr0710]

maybe the good CEO could claim he likes pimped-out cars???

 

[+ stevenkesslar]

A plea bargain doesn't mean anything is over

 

Thanks for the clarification and amplification of what I said. This definitely is not over. I've been assuming all along this was unlikely to go to trial, and this turn of events simply suggests to me a trial is now even less likely.

 

I'm basing this partly on the way things played out with MyRedbook:

 

https://www.fbi.gov/sanfrancisco/press-releases/2014/california-operator-of-myredbook.com-website-pleads-guilty-to-facilitating-prostitution

 

http://patch.com/california/rosemont/sentencing-postponed-sacramento-area-woman-operating-prostitution-websites-0

 

Redbook involved 2 arrests, not 7. So I figured with 7 people to work, the likelihood of a plea bargain was greater in this case. We don't know whether there actually will be any plea bargain yet. And even if there is, as you point out that doesn't mean anything in terms of what other parties will offer or accept.

 

In the case of Redbook once his assistant pled guilty, the CEO pretty quickly entered into a plea bargain, which is not a shocker. That happened in December 2014, roughly 6 months after the arrest, and he was sentenced to 13 months in prison in May 2015.

 

I have spoken to people who thought that this might be a landmark case, and that it might go all the way to the Supreme Court. I've never thought that. The way this is going is what I would have guessed was most likely, and it does at least suggest that on both sides there are parties that are not necessarily interested in pushing this to the limit.

 

Another question out there which is also total speculation has been whether the ACLU or Lambda Legal or other advocacy groups will get involved. They took a clear position against the bust, but then didn't follow it up, at least publicly. My guess is there may have been a calculation that plea bargains would happen, and that there also may have been a calculation on the government's part (remember, the DHS is a part of the Executive branch, and Obama is President) that it was not going to play well to make this turn into a high profile case that might eventually draw in groups like the ACLU. The idea that this is actually part of a government attempt to push back against "the Gays" for all their uppityness would make more sense to me if Mike Huckabee was President.

 

Since I'm now throwing around theories, no matter how wacko, there is one other element of this that is worth considering. Recall that last Summer Obama got a shitstorm of grief on immigration because of the 50,000 or so kids on the border, even though it was clear as day that the law that gave those kids a legal basis to cross the US border was signed by President George W. Bush. It actually set a new low in irrationality to me that people who I respect actually believed that somehow Obama was essentially to blame for what I view as a humanitarian law that George W. Bush thankfully signed, for all the right reasons. Recall also that the Right Wing wants to reduce what can and is viewed by many people as a successful government investment in solar infrastructure to the failure of one company, Solyndra. From that perspective, it's worth considering that somebody in DHS may have figured out that it would not serve Obama's political interests for somebody in the Republican party to eventually figure out that the Obama Administration was handing out H1B visas to people perceived as sex workers. In other words, instead of being viewed as an attack on Gays, it's possible that this could be viewed as a step that was taken to prevent an attack on the Obama Administration for being so crazy liberal - first illegal kids, then tree huggers, and now sex workers?

 

In my view, that's a stretch, but its equally a stretch to think the Obama Administration planned this as Step 1 in its new War On Gays. What Danny said above is right - like him the more I think about it the more I go, "Huh?" because it just doesn't make sense that the Administration that bathed the White House in the Gay Rainbow would follow that up with this.

 

The one other thing you said, Frequentflier, which is important to remember is that it still leaves 7 people twisting in the wind, even if they do plea bargain. In Redbook's case the CEO probably ended up with a reduced sentence, but he still went to jail. His assistant, whose plea bargain started the dominos falling, was supposed to be sentenced in March 2015, but as far as I can tell that was postponed and still hasn't happened.

[Lookin]

In my view, that's a stretch, but its equally a stretch to think the Obama Administration planned this as Step 1 in its new War On Gays. What Danny said above is right - like him the more I think about it the more I go, "Huh?" because it just doesn't make sense that the Administration that bathed the White House in the Gay Rainbow would follow that up with this.

 

One theory is that President Obama is being duplicitous in saying one thing and doing another. Another theory is that he avoids reaching down the chain of command to ensure that his policies are being implemented.

 

I ran across this issue a few years ago when Melinda Haag, at that time Northern California's top federal prosecutor, went after marijuana dispensaries. This was at a time when Obama had promised a hands-off policy, but before Congress had cut off funding for such prosecutions. Haag wanted them shut down, and she got them shut down, even one that had the full support of local officials and police.

 

Haag stepped down earlier this month, and the dispensary's founder is in the process of trying to reopen it. That makes me think that it wasn't Obama's agenda that was being implemented but, rather, Haag's.

 

And now here's the Rentboy prosecution and, like you, I'm scratching my head at the apparent disconnect between the President's policies and the actions of those further down the chain of command.

 

My working hypothesis is not that Obama is craftily saying one thing and doing another, but that he just does not keep his troops on a very tight leash.

 

 

Some may consider that an admirable managerial style but it's also one that, unless he's careful, could end up biting him in the ass. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

[JDXXX]

I wouldn't be surprised if the CEO said that "cyberpimp@rentboy.com" is an email address he simply found cool. If I look into it in more detail, then so far I haven't seen real evidence that supports the suggestion that the CEO actually was a pimp. I also think it requires more than a business card with "cyberpimp@rentboy.com" in order to prove that someone is really a pimp.

 

Plain silliness on his part as it wasn't a smart move as a business professional to have such an immortalized email address out there (publicly) where certain "authorities" can spot him on for which eventually they did and is one of the many investigations that could have caused rentboy.com's fall in the end. .

 

How sad.

[Phlmuscle]

Killian James is tired of the whole Rentboy thing and just wants people to move on. Killian James has probably never fought for a civil liberty in his young life, while benefiting from those who have, yet wants people to just move on. What Killian fails to understand is that there is NO moving on, ever, without taking a stand and fighting to right a wrong. That's what's called moving on. Killian James needs to educate himself about his own gay privilege and the history which gave that to him.

 

Thank God Killian wasn't at Stonewall.

 

http://s10.postimg.org/irzkvu9g9/KJRentboy.jpg

I agree. It's old news. Let's move on.

[+ WilliamM]

I agree. It's old news. Let's move on.

 

It's not old news to the people directly involved, and until we determine the full story about why the escort agency was a target of this investigation. I am greatly surprised that anyone believes we should move on -- very strange priorities, and that also applies to Killian James.