Five Rentboy Defendants Seek Plea Bargain

[+ ArVaGuy]

Interesting development..

 

 

http://str8upgayporn.com/five-of-seven-rentboy-defendants-seeking-plea-deal/

 

From Str8upgay porn

 

"Federal prosecutors and defense attorneys for Shane Lukas, Sean Belman, Edward Estanol, Diana Milagros Mattos (pictured left to right above, and better known as Hawk Kincaid, Sean Van Sant, Eli Lewis, and Coco Lopez, respectively), and Clint Calero have filed joint motions requesting that indictments be delayed as the defendants are currently engaged in plea negotiations. Each motion states that these plea negotiations will “likely result in a disposition of this case without trial.”

[+ stevenkesslar]

Any lawyers out there wanna react?

 

A lot of people have been guessing this was the most likely outcome. Similar to what happened to MyRedbook

[Guest]

Any lawyers out there wanna react?

 

A lot of people have been guessing this was the most likely outcome. Similar to what happened to MyRedbook

 

I'm no lawyer, but I think that most indictments end up with plea bargaining, unless it's a high-profile case that prosecutors feel they have to bring to trial due to public attention.

[+ sync]

My paranoia has me believing law enforcement is after bigger fish and the plea bargaining is a way to get the information they want/need.

[+ WmClarke]

My paranoia has me believing law enforcement is after bigger fish and the plea bargaining is a way to get the information they want/need.

That's always the case on Law & Order.

[LookingAround]

Very clear. They are getting the little fish to flip to turn and tell on the head of rentboy (big fish). They will bring him down.

[JC954]

Killian James is tired of the whole Rentboy thing and just wants people to move on. Killian James has probably never fought for a civil liberty in his young life, while benefiting from those who have, yet wants people to just move on. What Killian fails to understand is that there is NO moving on, ever, without taking a stand and fighting to right a wrong. That's what's called moving on. Killian James needs to educate himself about his own gay privilege and the history which gave that to him.

 

Thank God Killian wasn't at Stonewall.

 

http://s10.postimg.org/irzkvu9g9/KJRentboy.jpg

[JC954]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2rrmhlc.jpg

[+ stevenkesslar]

So this is total speculation, but it's interesting that other than the CEO, the other person not included in the plea bargain is Marco Dekker.

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/27/13/2BAF015500000578-3210567-image-m-27_1440680320187.jpg

 

This goes back to the original speculation about why Rentboy. The H1B Visa Rentboy got for Dekker was referred to in the complaint.

 

https://www.emptywheel.net/2015/08/26/why-did-the-feds-take-down-rentboy/

 

Is it logical to assume that the reason Dekker is not in the plea bargain is that the immigration visa may in fact have been, in part, what started this? That's a theory that made sense to me all along, since to me the most logical thing to assume is that this is what it appears to be, nothing more and nothing less, and the things named in the complaint are mostly "facilitating prostitution" and then, sort of as a sidelight, the visa.

 

I think I have been more hard ass than anybody else in insisting that Rentboy should not be blamed for their undoing. At the margin, they may have done a little bit more questionable things than any other site - e.g. The Hookies - but they also did cool things no other site did - e.g. college scholarships. Mainly, though, the meat and potatoes of the case is a set of claims that really could apply to just about any website that takes money for escort ads, male or female.

 

The one big exception to this is the H1B Visa. It's the one thing that Rentboy did that really seems questionable, in that, as the complaint itself reads, it seems likely to have just drawn the federal goverment's attention to something they might not have noticed otherwise. By asking DHS to approve an immigration visa, you can argue that Rentboy in effect invited DHS to weigh in on the legality of them as a business enterprise.

 

The reason that I bring this up is that I read the plea bargain as both good news and bad news. Hopefully, it minimizes the pain this whole thing will cause to the 5 people that are bargaining. If it plays out like Redbook, though, it seems likely to allow the government to essentially win without having to really prove anything, and it probably guarantees that 2 of the 7 will face really unpleasant things ahead.

 

In terms of what comes next, it also seems that you can see this turn of events as both good news and bad news. If I understand right, a plea bargain essentially does not set a legal precedent, so there's no ruling that can be used to then make it easier to go after other escort websites. The bad news to me is if you add Redbook the government is now likely to end up 2 for 2. Maybe they will quit while they are ahead, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

I'm assuming - again, this is all speculation - that one reason groups that have spoken out like ACLU or Lamba have not gotten more involved is they were waiting to see how the case would develop, and whether a plea bargain like this would happen. What this essentially does is start to shift the focus toward what may or may not be the next step the government will take.

 

What are other people thinking? Assuming this ends in some type of plea bargain, how likely is it that it's only a matter of time until other shoes drop?

[Guy Fawkes]

I look forward to you being one of our activists. However, may I point out the Killian is not the people we're protesting about. Perhaps you need to walk a few feet in his shoes. I think that he's handling it fairly well for one so young. Here it is a month later and I'm still getting panic emails.

 

 

Killian James is tired of the whole Rentboy thing and just wants people to move on. Killian James has probably never fought for a civil liberty in his young life, while benefiting from those who have, yet wants people to just move on. What Killian fails to understand is that there is NO moving on, ever, without taking a stand and fighting to right a wrong. That's what's called moving on. Killian James needs to educate himself about his own gay privilege and the history which gave that to him.

 

Thank God Killian wasn't at Stonewall.

 

http://s10.postimg.org/irzkvu9g9/KJRentboy.jpg

[+ stevenkesslar]

 

Which one is Killian? If it's the one in the front, I wanna know where that bitch got those shoes, and whether I can borrow them?

[+ glennnn]

Killian James is tired of the whole Rentboy thing and just wants people to move on. Killian James has probably never fought for a civil liberty in his young life, while benefiting from those who have, yet wants people to just move on. What Killian fails to understand is that there is NO moving on, ever, without taking a stand and fighting to right a wrong. That's what's called moving on. Killian James needs to educate himself about his own gay privilege and the history which gave that to him.

 

Thank God Killian wasn't at Stonewall.

 

 

How quickly we forget.

 

http://s10.postimg.org/irzkvu9g9/KJRentboy.jpg

[rvwnsd]

So this is total speculation, but it's interesting that other than the CEO, the other person not included in the plea bargain is Marco Dekker.

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/27/13/2BAF015500000578-3210567-image-m-27_1440680320187.jpg

 

This goes back to the original speculation about why Rentboy. The H1B Visa Rentboy got for Dekker was referred to in the complaint.

 

https://www.emptywheel.net/2015/08/26/why-did-the-feds-take-down-rentboy/

 

Is it logical to assume that the reason Dekker is not in the plea bargain is that the immigration visa may in fact have been, in part, what started this? That's a theory that made sense to me all along, since to me the most logical thing to assume is that this is what it appears to be, nothing more and nothing less, and the things named in the complaint are mostly "facilitating prostitution" and then, sort of as a sidelight, the visa.

 

I think I have been more hard ass than anybody else in insisting that Rentboy should not be blamed for their undoing. At the margin, they may have done a little bit more questionable things than any other site - e.g. The Hookies - but they also did cool things no other site did - e.g. college scholarships. Mainly, though, the meat and potatoes of the case is a set of claims that really could apply to just about any website that takes money for escort ads, male or female.

 

The one big exception to this is the H1B Visa. It's the one thing that Rentboy did that really seems questionable...

 

I, too think the H1B visa was what started the whole investigation of Rentboy. The absence of a plea deal for Dekker could be the result of him being the recipient of the H1B visa, as you said, but it could also be because he was their accountant. If there were financial shenanigans going on, such as failure to pay taxes or money laundering, he would likely know about them. That is speculation, of course.

 

In terms of questionable behavior, there's one other item that I think was questionable and will certainly be used against their CEO: his email address. According to the complaint, his email address was cyberpimp@rentboy.com. Cyberpimp? Really? I'm interested in hearing how he explains that he was not facilitating prostitution when he referred to himself as a pimp.

[Phil_musc]

My paranoia has me believing law enforcement is after bigger fish and the plea bargaining is a way to get the information they want/need.

 

Shhhhh. I guess they're onto me. I'm packing a few things in an overnight bag and heading to the airport as soon as I'm able. I'll sneak off to the Canary Islands or some such destination with no extradition and live out my days sipping umbrella drinks and playing in the surf with Brodie Sinclair. Don't try to contact me. After all this blows over, I'll be in touch. Now I wonder if Killian the chauffeur has got the car yet. I'm getting anxious. . .

[JDXXX]

Killian James is tired of the whole Rentboy thing and just wants people to move on. Killian James has probably never fought for a civil liberty in his young life, while benefiting from those who have, yet wants people to just move on. What Killian fails to understand is that there is NO moving on, ever, without taking a stand and fighting to right a wrong. That's what's called moving on. Killian James needs to educate himself about his own gay privilege and the history which gave that to him.

 

Thank God Killian wasn't at Stonewall.

 

http://s10.postimg.org/irzkvu9g9/KJRentboy.jpg

 

Yeah guys - Sounds like my buddy Killian has had it with the whole Rentboy scare as he's not letting it consume his life by moving on for which I can't blame him as he does have a point. Hell, we all want this crap with Rentboy to end, so we can move forward with our everyday lives.

 

Right on, Killian buddy as I am with you completely 100% on that one. I think a lot of us are ready to throw in the towel and see it end with dignity, and some sense of pride with a happy ending......

 

However - I'm with JC as we can't just fully run away from this as we're always gonna hear about it one form or another until it's resolved, and at this point - it's not resolved or dead.

 

Do wish this all would end as well, and they'll be a happy ending to all of this mess, but in order for that to happen one or two things will happen:

 

1. All 7 defendants plea bargain with a lesser charge so it won't go to trial or.....

 

2. 6 of the 7 defendants plea bargain, but it ends up going to trial, and if that happens - we'll never hear the end of this ciaos for quite awhile as it'll be ongoing for a least a few years or more.

 

I could be wrong, sweethearts, but that's just my theory on the whole situation on how this can turn out for the good or bad. .

[+ stevenkesslar]

According to the complaint, his email address was cyberpimp@rentboy.com. Cyberpimp? Really?

 

Good point about the financial stuff and accounting. That could be a reason as well. Presumably time will tell.

 

While I can't disagree with anything you say, I will. The "cyberpimp" thing is true, but it goes to my point about where this goes from here. If that is really the standard, there's no question in my mind about whether a website called "RentMen" should be shut down, and really only has themselves to blame for using a name like that to run a website. I mean, why don't we call it RentAMovie, since I know for sure that on my dates with clients, we've actually rented and watched movies, and that's not illegal? How far do you have to go to hide what's obvious, even when it's done between consenting adults and does no harm?

 

To move from the ridiculous to the substantive, here's another real issue. I've read in at least one account that even law enforcement admitted to the press that Redbook cooperated with law enforcement in deleting ads posted by underage girls from their site. I've also read that it was alleged (but never proven) that Redbook ads did feature underage girls at the time it was busted. In the article on Rentboy I posted above, the author speculated that "I fully expect once the government wades through the [Rentboy] servers they seized yesterday, they’ll come up with a list of advertisers who were also underage." Possibly. And in the future, even if RentMen required mandatory ID checks to post ads, is it crazy to think that some clever 17 year old might manage to fake an ID?

 

The even more complicated question is this: unless you are one of those crazy, pot-smoking idealists who think you're really going to rid the world of all child trafficking, if you shut all the websites used to traffick women and children down, how are you going to catch traffickers? There's no database on how these people actually get caught, but anecdotally there are articles that refer to the fact that they get caught based on ads posted, presumably by pimps.

 

It would have surprised me if none of the 7 Rentboy staff had NOT plea bargained, and in some ways its a good thing because, to use Killian's words, we can now start to put this behind us. But I think it's foolish to just assume this is over. If the real issue is that Rentboy waved an H1B visa in the DHS's face, I'll be harsh and say they only have themselves to blame for what happened. If the new standard is that DHS or other agencies are now going to systematically go after anybody that crassly uses words like "cyberpimp," then Bette Davis got it right:

 

[+ stevenkesslar]

2. 6 of the 7 defendants plea bargain, but it ends up going to trial, and if that happens - we'll never hear the end of this chaos for quite awhile as it'll be ongoing for a least a few years or more.

 

That's not the way it worked with My Redbook, JD:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Operator-of-MyRedbook-escort-website-pleads-guilty-5953442.php

 

I don't want to play lawyer, and I avoided saying anything about plea bargains until the shoe actually dropped, which it now has. But in the case of Redbook, law enforcement used the smaller fish to catch the bigger fish, and in this case its pretty predictable where this will lead. There won't be a trial, because the government won't need to bring it to trial to accomplish their goals. In that case, we can actually mostly agree with DHS - why waste resources that are better spent actually combating terrorism? Then the question comes back to the one I'm posing: is their next step going after terrorists, or going after more rentboys or rentgirls?

[JDXXX]

Then the question comes back to the one I'm posing: is their next step going after terrorists, or going after more rentboys or rentgirls?

 

Well sweetheart that all depends of course on how far they want to go, and in this case(technically) they can come at this in so many ways that is under the radar with this matter. I'd say we wont have much to worry about if they plea bargain. If it goes to trial - then we may wanna starting running the hills as by it going to trial can get quite messy.

 

At least by plea bargaining it's done silently where true the other 6 fish will get off by diving back in the sea, but the BIG fish will be left out to dry where the case will easily go to trial most likely, but maybe by him not plea bargaining will be of a blessing in disguise in end. You never know what good or bad can come out of this. Hopefully it'll work out for the best for everyone involved.

[JDXXX]

I look forward to you being one of our activists. However, may I point out the Killian is not the people we're protesting about. Perhaps you need to walk a few feet in his shoes. I think that he's handling it fairly well for one so young. Here it is a month later and I'm still getting panic emails.

 

 

I will admit - those are some hot pumps, bitch.

 

I didn't know my boy, Killian had such exquisite taste in heels.

 

Honey, you need to let me borrow those sometime. LOL.

[Frequentflier]

A plea bargain doesn't mean anything is over. It just means that if those that enter into those agreements fulfill their obligations, the government will do its part and not take them to trial. Its part is typically limiting the charges to those agreed to (usually less than what someone would go to trial over) and make a sentence recommendation to the court which the court is not obligated to abide by. Years could go by between when the plea agreement is entered into and actual sentencing takes place. Often the government, and to some degree the defendant so they can prove how cooperative they can be, waits until the investigation and any trials are complete for sentencing hearings. Once the defendant has waived his/her right to a speedy trial (likely already done) they have no control over the timing of the process. The plea agreement usually contains a host of obligations on the part of the defendant like cooperating with the government in its investigation including likely turning over financial records, emails, text messages and possibly much more (could mean wearing a wire or camera, etc.).

 

And because anyone enters into a plea agreement doesn't mean anything about others that may be targeted by the government. And its the governments idea of who is a big or little fish that matters, not ours, and its free to charge little fish as much as big. The prison population of the US represents 25% of all those in prisons around the world. There is a reason for that and its not pleasant. Americans like putting people in prison, punishing them and insisting that the consequences for those convictions (regardless of the severity of the crime) last a lifetime.

 

Its sort of weird. Americans don't like Sharia law because of its cruelty, but Americans seemingly have no problem with prison guards allowing prisoners to be sexually abused, to allow those same guards (without due process) to put prisoners in solitary for years, etc. There isn't even agreement between some states and Federal courts about what defines mental retardation when it comes to applying the death penalty.

[JDXXX]

A plea bargain doesn't mean anything is over. It just means that if those that enter into those agreements fulfill their obligations, the government will do its part and not take them to trial. Its part is typically limiting the charges to those agreed to (usually less than what someone would go to trial over) and make a sentence recommendation to the court which the court is not obligated to abide by. Years could go by between when the plea agreement is entered into and actual sentencing takes place. Often the government, and to some degree the defendant so they can prove how cooperative they can be, waits until the investigation and any trials are complete for sentencing hearings. Once the defendant has waived his/her right to a speedy trial (likely already done) they have no control over the timing of the process. The plea agreement usually contains a host of obligations on the part of the defendant like cooperating with the government in its investigation including likely turning over financial records, emails, text messages and possibly much more (could mean wearing a wire or camera, etc.).

 

And because anyone enters into a plea agreement doesn't mean anything about others that may be targeted by the government. And its the governments idea of who is a big or little fish that matters, not ours, and its free to charge little fish as much as big. The prison population of the US represents 25% of all those in prisons around the world. There is a reason for that and its not pleasant. Americans like putting people in prison, punishing them and insisting that the consequences for those convictions (regardless of the severity of the crime) last a lifetime.

 

Its sort of weird. Americans don't like Sharia law because of its cruelty, but Americans seemingly have no problem with prison guards allowing prisoners to be sexually abused, to allow those same guards (without due process) to put prisoners in solitary for years, etc. There isn't even agreement between some states and Federal courts about what defines mental retardation when it comes to applying the death penalty.

 

Makes sense, but makes one wonder still of how far will the 6 of the 7 defendants will go to tell ALL on the BIG fish, and give themselves to the government just to get a lesser sentence. .

[Frequentflier]

Makes sense, but makes one wonder still of how far will the 6 of the 7 defendants will go to tell ALL on the BIG fish, and give themselves to the government just to get a lesser sentence. .

 

I have some legal training and have known many people that have gone through the process. My observation is that the defendants will tell everything and do whatever is asked of them. For most people (they aren't hardened criminals), the process is terrifying and almost as bad as (some say worse than because of the months or years of uncertainty of what comes at the end) the sentence at the end of it.

[+ WilliamM]

Killian James

@killianjamesnyc

The Rentboy shutdown is not equivalent to stonewall. How can we compare the shutdown of an escort site to a fight that impacted millions.

 

Young Killian James' follow-up twitter message.

 

I was in California and Massachetts in the six weeks after Stonewall. That soon after the event no one could predict that Stonewall would be remembered so strongly all these years later. People forget that Judy Garland's funeral in NYC that same Saturday was far more widely reported in the national media that June 1969 weekend that Stonewall.

 

We can only speculate on the follow-up impact of the shutdown of an escort site. Dismissing the shutdown is the one thing we should not do right now.

[rvwnsd]

Good point about the financial stuff and accounting. That could be a reason as well. Presumably time will tell.

 

While I can't disagree with anything you say, I will. The "cyberpimp" thing is true, but it goes to my point about where this goes from here. If that is really the standard... If the real issue is that Rentboy waved an H1B visa in the DHS's face, I'll be harsh and say they only have themselves to blame for what happened. If the new standard is that DHS or other agencies are now going to systematically go after anybody that crassly uses words like "cyberpimp," then Bette Davis got it right:

 

 

I didn't say referring to oneself as "cyberpimp" was the standard. What I said was:

 

...In terms of questionable behavior, there's one other item that I think was questionable and will certainly be used against their CEO: his email address. According to the complaint, his email address was cyberpimp@rentboy.com. Cyberpimp? Really? I'm interested in hearing how he explains that he was not facilitating prostitution when he referred to himself as a pimp.

 

To put it another way, the CEO of Rentboy claimed he did not engage in the facilitation of prostitution, but he refers to himself s a pimp. Pimps facilitate prostitution. I would be surprised if he is not asked to explain that. I do not think (nor did I express or imply) his email address spawned the investigation that led to the raid.

 

I will add that I think there is more to the story than an H1B visa and hosting escort ads. It will not surprise me if financial misdeeds are revealed when the case goes to trial.

[bigvalboy]

I will add that I think there is more to the story than an H1B visa and hosting escort ads. It will not surprise me if financial misdeeds are revealed when the case goes to trial.

 

+1