NYC's Townhouse

[+ Gar1eth]

I had only one friend who lived north of 14th Street. Get this, I once actually had a NY cab driver ask me, "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" I'd been waiting all my life for that set up.

 

While I know of Carnegie Hall, I'm not familiar with the reference. Is it a joke or famous line from something?

 

Gman

[+ bigjoey]

The answer is: "practice"

[Despardo]

While I know of Carnegie Hall, I'm not familiar with the reference. Is it a joke or famous line from something?

 

Gman

World's oldest joke. Goes back to comedian George Jessel or even before him. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?--Practice! Practice! Practice!

[+ azdr0710]

The answer is: "practice"

 

veering off topic here, but that old line reminds me of the old one in which an aspiring young actress asked Bette Davis the best way to get into Hollywod...."Take Fountain", Davis suggested....

 

for you dyed-in-the-wool Manhattanites, Fountain Ave. is an appealing alternative to busy Sunset and Santa Monica for traveling between Beverly Hills/West Hollywood into old Hollywood

[Irtwo]

Axiom, I would definitely recommend you pay a visit to Townhouse. It is somewhat upscale and the dress code is enforced. In my experience, there are a lot of guys there looking for some fun, and not necessarily escorts. When I have been there, a wide range of ages and types. I was usually there during the week, but I suspect it may be even more busy on Friday nights and the weekends. I enjoy the piano bar in the back, and I found it very easy to strike up conversations with old and young alike. If you want more information, send me a PM. Enjoy NYC when you get there !!!

 

That's an accurate description. Those going there expecting it to be an escort pick-up place like Stellas (for those that remember that place) will be very disappointed. I wish there was a place like that in NYC, but this isn't it. Most of the time, there are no escorts there, as that is not its primary purpose and the Townhouse does not encourage it. Some nights, there are one or two working boys who are allowed in because they are known to the management. There are some young guys there who are not escorts but just like older guys or like the piano bar/dress code type atmosphere. The Townhouse is meant to be a place that older guys can feel welcome, as opposed to most gay bars that focus on younger crowds.

[tsgarp]

The Townhouse is an important facet of New York's diverse gay scene - we're lucky it still exists.

[+ WilliamM]

Ethel Merman's only concert ar Carnegie Hall was a year or two before she died, so early 1980s.

 

Ethel and her son counted all the hours she spent on Broadway from 1930 t0 1970. It come to something like eight years and ten months in hours, 365 days a year. It was a charity concert, with a limited edition record.. I still have the record, so if I am off by a few months, I will correct this post. No disco unfortunately:)

[+ Gar1eth]

Ethel Merman's only concert ar Carnegie Hall was a year or two before she died, so early 1980s.

 

Ethel and her son counted all the hours she spent on Broadway from 1930 t0 1970. It come to something like eight years and ten months in hours, 365 days a year.

 

I understood the hours calculation. What is the 365 days?

 

It was a charity concert' date=' with a limited edition record.. I still have the record, so if I am off by a few months, I will correct this post. No disco unfortunately:)[/quote']

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XFKC1952L._SX200_.jpg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gao8l3xQbQ

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

 

The producers of "Gypsy" closed the musical for one night in Jan. 1961, so that Ethel Merman, then in her prime, could perform at the Kennedy Inaugural Gala. Snow forced Merman to perform in her street clothes, which worked well for the character she was playing, Mama Rose. Sinatra and Bernstein appear very briefly as well

[+ azdr0710]

[+ Gar1eth]

 

Robert Hayes is so incredibly handsome in that movie. I loved him in Angie too.

 

Gman

[Andrew]

Thanks.I'm assuming they come from NJ then. Never heard that. I'm from Santa Monica.

I'm in San Francisco and we got 'em too.

[+ WilliamM]

I saw Ethel Merman in "Gypsy" on 1961 when I was a teenager. She was never going to be better in another musical. "Gypsy" was written for her with lyrics by Sondheim and music by Jule Styne; Merman could not top that (neither could anyone else).

 

Too bad she did not limit her career to concerts after "Gypsy.". Merman would have been remembered as a camp figure, but not to the extent that she is today. Merman appeared in 12 or 13 Broadway shows, all successful. That was not enough for her, I guess.

[nate_sf]

I'm in San Francisco and we got 'em too.

 

I've heard the term used here in SF too. For the longest time I was puzzled by the tunnel reference. Which tunnel? The Caldecott? When I learned it was an imported NYC term it made more sense.

[Tonyko]

I saw Ethel Merman in "Gypsy" on 1961 when I was a teenager. She was never going to be better in another musical.

 

Too bad she did not limit her career to concerts after "Gypsy.". Merman would have been remembered as a camp figure, but not to the extent that she is today. Merman appeared in 12 or 13 Broadway shows, all successful. That was not enough for her, I guess.

I met her I have her autograph, on a Playbill from "Barnum", I had/have an uncle Mame lol my Unc who's only bout 14-15 years older than me, an actor. He took me to the theater then to Joe Allen, I was maybe 10-11, she came in with two young guys one of which he knew. I had NO idea who she was but he explained and told me to KEEP that Playbill which I did and still have . (nothing against Streisand whom I love, BUT "Dolly" was written for a not young not thin not so pretty loud brassy widow who's ship had sailed, it was written for Ethel. And even thou she couldn't open in it and Channing became synonomous with the role, when Ethel DID take over the role I'm told it was MAGIC and as perfect as it could have been. ps it was YEARS later that I realized THAT lady was the lady I remember from The Muppet Show.

[+ Gar1eth]

I met her I have her autograph, on a Playbill from "Barnum", I had/have an uncle Mame lol my Unc who's only bout 14-15 years older than me, an actor. He took me to the theater then to Joe Allen, I was maybe 10-11, she came in with two young guys one of which he knew. I had NO idea who she was but he explained and told me to KEEP that Playbill which I did and still have . (nothing against Streisand whom I love, BUT "Dolly" was written for a not young not thin not so pretty loud brassy widow who's ship had sailed, it was written for Ethel. And even thou she couldn't open in it and Channing became synonomous with the role, when Ethel DID take over the role I'm told it was MAGIC and as perfect as it could have been. ps it was YEARS later that I realized THAT lady was the lady I remember from The Muppet Show.

 

I'm going to have to say nay. While I understand your point, I love Streisand in Hello Dolly!! One of my favorite scenes in the movie is them singing "Put On Your Sunday Clothes." It may be one of my most favorite scenes from any musical. Whenever I see it, it puts a smile on my face. Unfortunately for some reason, I can't find a video of the movie scene-only scenes from theatre productions. While nice they are only pallid shadows of the scene from the movie.

 

And I don't think actor playing Cornelius is that great in this scene.

 

 

 

 

Gman

[Tonyko]

I'm going to have to say nay. While I understand your point, I love Streisand in Hello Dolly!! One of my favorite scenes in the movie is them singing "Put On Your Sunday Clothes." It may be one of my most favorite scenes from any musical. Whenever I see it, it puts a smile on my face. Unfortunately for some reason, I can't find a video of the movie scene-only scenes from theatre productions. While nice they are only pallid shadows of the scene from the movie.

Well I say "nay" back lol. You're talking about production values which is always true in a movie version of a "one perspective" 4th wall stage production no matter how brilliant the cast. I'm sure I would say the same as you if I'd seen the orig West Side Story stage cast in 57 do "Cool" then compared it to the amazing film version of the number. I"M talking about the diff between a lonely 60-something widow singing "Before The Parade Passes By" and a pretty 26 year old girl doing it . (yes I thought Barbra was pretty :-) The show is from "The Matchmaker", the play, with Ruth Gordon, don't get me wrong it's a BEAUTIFUL film Gene Kelly did an amazing job it's spectacular to look at and may to this day hold the record as the most expensive musical ever made. But to ME it's just WRONG .

It's the diff between Zero Mostel as a weary milk farmer in 1905 Russia pulling a heavy cart, and Neil Patrick Harris playing it:cool:

[pleasureseeker]

Couldn't agree more!

[+ Gar1eth]

Well I say "nay" back lol. You're talking about production values which is always true in a movie version of a "one perspective" 4th wall stage production no matter how brilliant the cast. I'm sure I would say the same as you if I'd seen the orig West Side Story stage cast in 57 do "Cool" then compared it to the amazing film version of the number. I"M talking about the diff between a lonely 60-something widow singing "Before The Parade Passes By" and a pretty 26 year old girl doing it . (yes I thought Barbra was pretty The show is from "The Matchmaker", the play, with Ruth Gordon, don't get me wrong it's a BEAUTIFUL film Gene Kelly did an amazing job it's spectacular to look at and may to this day hold the record as the most expensive musical ever made. But to ME it's just WRONG .

It's the diff between Zero Mostel as a weary milk farmer in 1905 Russia pulling a heavy cart, and Neil Patrick Harris playing it:cool:

 

I'll admit you have a point. But in those days, people married at much younger ages. So she could have been widowed for a while not to mention the concept of 'suspension of disbelief ' as ordinary folk don't break out into choreographed songs and dances at the drop of a hat. I believe, when I see her performance, that she has been missing out on life. Age doesn't matter. In fact when I saw the play once the actress was a slightly zaftig possibly older woman, and I couldn't get out of my head that she should have looked more like Barbra.

 

We may just have to agree to disagree. I've loved the movie since childhood. And to me Babs will always be perfect in the role. And I am not a stereotypical gay guy who goes gaga for Babs, Liza, (or even Lady Gaga ).

 

However if you want to talk about how inappropriate it was to cast non-singers Natalie Wood in West Side Story or Vanessa Redgrave in Camelot, I'll totally agree.

 

Gman

[Despardo]

I saw Ethel Merman in "Gypsy" on 1961 when I was a teenager. She was never going to be better in another musical.

 

Too bad she did not limit her career to concerts after "Gypsy.". Merman would have been remembered as a camp figure, but not to the extent that she is today. Merman appeared in 12 or 13 Broadway shows, all successful. That was not enough for her, I guess.

I think she liked to work. Funny anecdote: Opening night of Annie Get Your Gun. Merman is waiting in the wings for her entrance and chewing a big wad of gum. A young girl in the chorus said to her, "Gee, Miss Merman, aren't you nervous?" Merman paused, then turning to the young lady said, "Nervous? Why should I be nervous? I know my fucking lines!" Then she spat the gum into a fire bucket and marched out onto the stage.

[Tonyko]

[quote="

However if you want to talk about how inappropriate it was to cast non-singers Natalie Wood in West Side Story or Vanessa Redgrave in Camelot, I'll totally agree. Gman

 

How ironic because THERE I Disagree lol. No studio was going to invest Millions in a film with Carol Lawerence etc no matter how great they were on stage :-) Had it not been Natalie dubbed it would have been Warren Beatty dubbed as Tony etc or some other Box Office draw she was the name and no big budget flick got made w/o one. (in fairness almost ALL the entire cast from Broadway and subsequent tours made it into the film, in fact I think Russ Tamblyn played TONY in one, and so did Chakaris I think lol. The exception of course was Rita (don't say a bad word she's a dear friend :rolleyes:) and she was not treated very nicely by the rest of the cast whom had all done it on stage, they wanted Chita of course, only natural, even Chita's husband in real life made it into the film, but not her. Re dubbing, well, as you prob know Natalie sang to HER OWN voice for the filming she'd recorded the whole score and believed even after wrapping production that her own voice would be used. But she didn't have the chops, her soundtrack is on the Doc about the movie, she was good BETTER even than you would think, but not good enougho_O. Rita, well, the choice to dub HER in just ONE song is an odd one, and she never felt the voice matched her expressions during A Boy Like That. America, etc is all the real her.

Audrey Hepburn same thang, recorded whole soundtrack to my Fair Lady and sang to herself, also believed till very end that her own voice would be used. Again, she was not bad (for her) but not great. IRONIC THAT SAME WOMAN DUBBED BOTH NATALIE AND AUDREY BTW, MARNI NIXON) The Freddy character "Street Where You Live" had DONE it on BROADWAY and LONDON and they even dubbed HIM!

Julie Andrews, NOT a box office name hence Audrey getting her part, did get her revenge lol, Mary Poppins came out the SAME year as Fair Lady and made her a Box Office star. (and the following year she did to Mary Martin what others had done to HER in Sound Of Music :-)

I do think (re the few musicals that have been made in modern decades ie Chicago etc, have shown that the whole dubbing a star thing is passe' and people won't buy it anymore and ppl want the Box Office draws their seeing to sing for themselves. That's good:rolleyes:

[Despardo]

I met her I have her autograph, on a Playbill from "Barnum", I had/have an uncle Mame lol my Unc who's only bout 14-15 years older than me, an actor. He took me to the theater then to Joe Allen, I was maybe 10-11, she came in with two young guys one of which he knew. I had NO idea who she was but he explained and told me to KEEP that Playbill which I did and still have . (nothing against Streisand whom I love, BUT "Dolly" was written for a not young not thin not so pretty loud brassy widow who's ship had sailed, it was written for Ethel. And even thou she couldn't open in it and Channing became synonomous with the role, when Ethel DID take over the role I'm told it was MAGIC and as perfect as it could have been. ps it was YEARS later that I realized THAT lady was the lady I remember from The Muppet Show.

It seems that every aging Hollywood diva stepped into that part--Ginger Rogers, Betty Grable and many others (famously Pearl Bailey.) I saw a revival with Channing and she was priceless. Someone suggested the part to Jack Benny, who said he would consider it only if George Burns played Vandergelder.

[Tonyko]

I think she liked to work. Funny anecdote: Opening night of Annie Get Your Gun. Merman is waiting in the wings for her entrance and chewing a big wad of gum. A young girl in the chorus said to her, "Gee, Miss Merman, aren't you nervous?" Merman paused, then turning to the young lady said, "Nervous? Why should I be nervous? I know my fucking lines!" Then she spat the gum into a fire bucket and marched out onto the stage.

Elaine Stritch in her last Cabaret show told a great story that I can't tots remember, when she was a young understudy, a part in some Merman show, but had a chance to fill in for the LEAD in another show but by law couldn't leave the theater of the Merman show till 1/2 hr before curtain and wouldn't make it etc (wish I could remember the deets!) but it ended in Merman, sensing Elaine's anxiousness to leave, saying "oh for Christ Sake Elaine just go do your other fucking show!"

[+ WilliamM]

Well I say "nay" back lol. You're talking about production values which is always true in a movie version of a "one perspective" 4th wall stage production no matter how brilliant the cast. I'm sure I would say the same as you if I'd seen the orig West Side Story stage cast in 57 do "Cool" then compared it to the amazing film version of the number. I"M talking about the diff between a lonely 60-something widow singing "Before The Parade Passes By" and a pretty 26 year old girl doing it . (yes I thought Barbra was pretty The show is from "The Matchmaker", the play, with Ruth Gordon, don't get me wrong it's a BEAUTIFUL film Gene Kelly did an amazing job it's spectacular to look at and may to this day hold the record as the most expensive musical ever made. But to ME it's just WRONG .

It's the diff between Zero Mostel as a weary milk farmer in 1905 Russia pulling a heavy cart, and Neil Patrick Harris playing it:cool:

 

Mary Martin was approached first early on for "My Fair Lady," "Funny Girl" and "Mame" for Broadway. She was not English ("My Fair Lady"), Jewish ("Funny Girl") or the right type ("Mame). I was likely a joint decision amongst the producers and Martin & her husband-manager. At some point Mary Martin (not long after "South Pacific" and "Peter Pan") decided to move on.

 

I am not saying that Barbra Streisand should have turned down "Hello, Dolly." But, I believe it would have been better movie with an older, more experienced star.

[Despardo]

[quote="

However if you want to talk about how inappropriate it was to cast non-singers Natalie Wood in West Side Story or Vanessa Redgrave in Camelot, I'll totally agree. Gman

 

How ironic because THERE I Disagree lol. No studio was going to invest Millions in a film with Carol Lawerence etc no matter how great they were on stage Had it not been Natalie dubbed it would have been Warren Beatty dubbed as Tony etc or some other Box Office draw she was the name and no big budget flick got made w/o one. (in fairness almost ALL the entire cast from Broadway and subsequent tours made it into the film, in fact I think Russ Tamblyn played TONY in one, and so did Chakaris I think lol. The exception of course was Rita (don't say a bad word she's a dear friend :rolleyes:) and she was not treated very nicely by the rest of the cast whom had all done it on stage, they wanted Chita of course, only natural, even Chita's husband in real life made it into the film, but not her. Re dubbing, well, as you prob know Natalie sang to HER OWN voice for the filming she'd recorded the whole score and believed even after wrapping production that her own voice would be used. But she didn't have the chops, her soundtrack is on the Doc about the movie, she was good BETTER even than you would think, but not good enougho_O. Rita, well, the choice to dub HER in just ONE song is an odd one, and she never felt the voice matched her expressions during A Boy Like That. America, etc is all the real her.

Audrey Hepburn same thang, recorded whole soundtrack to my Fair Lady and sang to herself, also believed till very end that her own voice would be used. Again, she was not bad (for her) but not great. IRONIC THAT SAME WOMAN DUBBED BOTH NATALIE AND AUDREY BTW, MARNI NIXON) The Freddy character "Street Where You Live" had DONE it on BROADWAY and LONDON and they even dubbed HIM!

Julie Andrews, NOT a box office name hence Audrey getting her part, did get her revenge lol, Mary Poppins came out the SAME year as Fair Lady and made her a Box Office star. (and the following year she did to Mary Martin what others had done to HER in Sound Of Music

I do think (re the few musicals that have been made in modern decades ie Chicago etc, have shown that the whole dubbing a star thing is passe' and people won't buy it anymore and ppl want the Box Office draws their seeing to sing for themselves. That's good:rolleyes:

I believe that Rita had trouble only with A Boy Like That--too low for her or something. The woman they found to dub it had a heavy Mexican Spanish accent which was totally wrong. Rita said they did about a dozen takes, and the woman never did get it right. Marni Nixon was truly amazing. She dubbed so many people (Deborah Kerr in King & I) and did a superb job each time--a fine singer in her own right. A big exception since she was never dubbed was Shirley Jones who could really sing!