Rentboy Defense Fund

[+ WmClarke]

So, apparently there is now a Rentboy Defense Fund: rentboyfund.org

 

Anyone here know anything about it?

[+ jrhoutex]

So, apparently there is now a Rentboy Defense Fund: rentboyfund.org

 

Anyone here know anything about it?

 

I have no idea who created it, but when you search you find it mentioned by a law firm in Florida who practices in First Amendment, Freedom of Speech and Internet Law issues.

 

https://www.facebook.com/WebLaw/timeline?ref=page_internal

http://www.firstamendment.com/

http://newswire.xbiz.com/view.php?id=198438

 

The domain name for the fund is a "private registration".

 

I also found it mentioned here in the Free Speech Coalition.

http://freespeechcoalition.com/free-speech-coalition-statement-on-the-rentboy-com-raid/

[Michael Wayne]

please see my comment in thread called "the rentboy legal mess." The seizure power of the govt is OUT OF CONTROL!! We should contribute because this is as unconstitutional as it gets. If, in fact, it is deemed to be actually constitutional then the document gives we the people the right to AMMEND IT and thus we should do!!!!

[rvwnsd]

If you look toward the bottom of the page you will see the following:

 

For donations by Credit Card, Bitcoin, or Wire Transfer – Email: gill@sperleinlaw.com

 

Navigating to www.sperleinlaw.com rendered a server error. Googling Sperlein Law reveals that D. Gill Sperlein is an intellectual property attorney practicing in San Francisco. If you are interested in donating, my advice is to email him and ask him for some background on the fund and why he created it.

 

Given that anyone can create a web page an solicit donations for anything, I would not donate until I conversed with Mr Sperlein. That is not to say he is not legitimate. I think it is prudent to perform due diligence before donating to any cause.

[nate_sf]

Mr. Sperlein is pictured in one of the photos from the weekend rally in SF:

 

http://www.demotix.com/photo/8471499/san-francisco-protest-rentboy-raid&popup=1

 

The caption identifies him as being on the legal team representing Rentboy.

 

This brings up the question of duplicating donation pages that might crop up. I don't know Mr. Sperlein but on the face of it, it looks legit if he's out there at the rally and being identified as legal counsel. We also know the guys who organized the Indiegogo fundraiser that's referenced elsewhere in the Forum are legit. The goals of each campaign are a bit different, with the first being presented as a legal defense fund and the second a more general fundraiser to assist the defendants not just with legal expenses but also rent, food and other expenses. Both are worthy, and I'm glad to see the Indiegogo fund increasing steadily.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Thanks for the due diligence, rvwnsd and Nate.

 

I know nothing about the other fund, but here's more reasons why I hope everybody gives to this fund.

 

First, kudos to Daddy for insisting we think it through, and to Dave for thinking it through and assembling a team to get things started. I am not a lawyer, and I don't want to play lawyer. I still wonder how this all coordinates with what others are doing. But I certainly feel comfortable putting my name behind our own fund and giving to it, which I did. All roads will eventually lead to Rome, and I think there is plenty of time for the legal folks to figure out what makes the most sense.

 

Second, as far as our $200,000 goal goes, I found the logic of this fund very compelling. It shows we are willing to unify. It goes a long way to helping the people we most need to defend, however we need to defend them. Most important to me, it undercuts the whole logic of the case. I'm not sure that's a valid legal statement, but to me it is a valid moral one. In the long run, that may count for more than legal technicalities.

 

This case is built on the notion that Rentboy was at the center of a "global criminal enterprise." It uses reviews on Daddys to reinforce that argument. It insists that "Rate" somehow means we "must" be engaging in criminal sexual acts.

 

I'm a leading escort on the site, and have been for 15 years, and I don't buy it. If we were what DHS is making us out to be, what has happened since the day of the bust wouldn't be happening. We'd be criminals running for cover, not responsible adults running to the streets to rally, and running to our wallets to give money to defend people who worked for Rentboy and who we view as innocent - the only real victims to be found.

 

In a busy month I think this site gets something like almost six figures in unique visitors. So asking one percent of you to give what a typical escort charges for an hour of his time - $200 - is a reasonable fundraising goal. If about one percent of you do that, it adds up to $200,000. It never works out that simply in reality, but I thought the goal was achievable. Some will give less, some more. But please, please, please - give!

 

To me, spending what escorts like me call their "Rate" to defend Internet freedom undercuts the notion that you can just assume or infer that what I call my Rate "must" pay for sex. The more we open up to the world about what happens in these so-called criminal relationships, on any website or media we can find that will print our words, the more this will become clear.

 

My own reason for spending $200 is because it makes perfect sense to me that tens of thousands of Gay men should be able to use the Internet freely to do things that empower, educate, and prevent abuse among both escorts and the clients who hire them. Granted, I'm not a lawyer. And I may not have the "experience and training" Agent Ruiz does in investigating "prostitution." But that doesn't look, sound, or smell like criminal activity to me. To me, it actually makes this attack on Gay men look like a crime.

 

The longer this goes on, the more likely I think it will play out the way the same sex marriage fight did. We will hone our arguments. More important, we will open our hearts for everybody to see. That is how we won the last fight that defined our sexuality, and that is how we will win this one.

 

https://life.indiegogo.com/fundraisers/daddysreviews-com-clients-help-support-rentboy--2

[rvwnsd]

Thanks for the due diligence, rvwnsd and Nate.

 

I know nothing about the other fund, but here's more reasons why I hope everybody gives to this fund.

 

...

 

Hey, Steven...

 

Which fund are you referring to as "this fund" and which are you referring to as "the other fund?"

 

 

please see my comment in thread called "the rentboy legal mess." The seizure power of the govt is OUT OF CONTROL!! We should contribute because this is as unconstitutional as it gets. If, in fact, it is deemed to be actually constitutional then the document gives we the people the right to AMMEND IT and thus we should do!!!!

 

Exactly how do you propose we amend the Constitution, Mikey? Although I do not agree with the seizure of Rentboy, I also do not agree we should amend the Constitution in reaction to a seizure I am opposed to. Knee-jerk reactions can cut both ways. My guess is passage of an amendment giving a public official the right to refuse issuing marriage licenses because they believe doing so for same-sex couples would violate their religious beliefs would garner as much or more support than one prohibiting the seizure of web sites. The Constitution has served us well for many, many years and tampering with it should be done infrequently.

[Guy Fawkes]

Mr. Clarke your signature is very confusing... Hasn't the humor value been exhausted yet?

 

So, apparently there is now a Rentboy Defense Fund: rentboyfund.org

 

Anyone here know anything about it?

[+ WmClarke]

Mr. Clarke your signature is very confusing... Hasn't the humor value been exhausted yet?

I'll change it. I usually browse on my phone and so I don't see the signatures and, therefore, don't really think about it.

[+ WilliamM]

The Constitution has served us well for many, many years and tampering with it should be done infrequently

 

It is very, very difficult to amend the Constitution, except on issue that are overwhelming agreed upon by the public, like the 25th Amendment on presidential succession (ratified in 1967). People may remember that Pres. Johnson did have a vice president between the Kennedy assassination and Johnson taking the oath of office for a full term on Jan. 20, 1965.

 

The ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) came close, but was never ratified. Ratification required very strong support from Congress and individual states.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Hey, Steven...

 

Which fund are you referring to as "this fund" and which are you referring to as "the other fund?"

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

I know nothing about the fund you did the due diligence on - in other words Email: gill@sperleinlaw.com

 

I tend to agree with Nate. Mr. Sperlein is pictured at the SF rally, so it is likely legit. But I can't vouch for him.

 

When I said "I hope everybody gives to this fund", I meant the indiegogo fund that is referred to as the "Daddysreviews.com Clients fund"

 

https://life.indiegogo.com/fundraisers/daddysreviews-com-clients-help-support-rentboy--2

 

Just to be even more clear, my meaning was to emphasize "I hope everybody gives," as opposed to "give to this fund." This is shaping up like a typical fundraising drive. Some people have donated as much as $1000. Thank you so much! It goes without saying that not everybody can do that. What will make this work over time is that we will get a lot of smaller donations. So please give what you can now.

 

And I'll take this as an opportunity to give you some other things to think about that made me want to support this effort.

 

Huffington Post reported before the bust that Rentboy "created a "Cash4Class" scholarship fund to give male escorts advertising with Rentboy.com a financial boost to go back to school. Potential winners of the $1500 fund can submit a 500-1000 word essay or a 1-5 min video answering the question "why is going to school part of achieving your dream?" Does that sound like what your garden variety "global criminal enterprise" would do?

 

Here's an even scarier thought, from an article in SF Weekly about how the Redbook bust played out: "Annmarie Lanoce pleaded not guilty earlier this year, but changed her plea today, admitting that she was guilty of helping to operate MyRedbook. The site was shut down by the FBI earlier this year. Lanoce's attorney, Geoffrey Hansen, tells SF Weekly that his client will enter a diversion agreement with the U.S. Attorney's Office, which will allow her to avoid a felony sentence in exchange for a probationary period of good behavior. Assistant U.S. Attorney Elise Becker said Lanoce was hired by her co-defendant, Eric Omuro, in December 2010 as a part-time assistant... Lanoce, Becker said, managed the website, reading and moderating the discussion forums used by escorts and customers to discuss services, as well as the ads posted by escorts. Becker also said that Lanoce fielded correspondence from families and law enforcement about ads that might depict minors and deleted the ads from MyRedbook."

If I am reading that correctly, and the meaning of Asst. U.S. Atty. Becker's words seems pretty plain, Redbook actually cooperated with law enforcement and families, for example to delete ads that might depict minors. I can readily understand how law enforcement might feel that instead of having an escort website that gives out college scholarships or works with law enforcement and families, it is better to have no escort website at all, and no escorts. And we all should be as rich and wise as Donald Trump, too!

 

If I'm guessing their strategy even half correct, I hope these cowboys are at least for decriminalizing pot, because it sounds to me like they are smoking lots of it. I'm betting they are monitoring this site, so they have to know everybody is talking about Rentmen. No offense to the folks at Rentmen, but could somebody please explain to me how putting US escorts and their clients under the control of a Dutch website is going to help when it comes to college scholarships? More important, how will it help if the goal is cooperation with concerned US families or US law enforcement trying to do their jobs and protect people who are victims, and deserve protection?

 

Here's three articles you might want to scan that I predict is where we are going if we follow the course the cowboys are setting:

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8835071/flesh-for-sale/

 

I am poring through articles trying to find hard data about murder, crime, and violence in Amsterdam related to brothels. A lot of stories, like the one above, are written based on what seems to be hearsay. But I'm hard pressed to find articles that don't use words like "disaster" to describe how legalized prostitution works there. Speaking for myself, there is no way in hell I would work in a brothel there. No offense to the Dutch, but if the concern is a "global criminal enterprise," the cops can't really believe it will help to drive it offshore and hand it over to the folks in Amsterdam, who actually seem to have created a legalized human mess with their brothels. Rentmen seems well run. It is not a brothel, it's a website. And it won't make prostitution legal in the US. But it will put facilitation of prostitution further outside the legal control of US law enforcement.

 

Which will lead to .............

 

http://abc13.com/news/prostitution-sting-nets-hundreds-of-arrests/502522/

 

How would you like your picture to appear in the paper because you hired an escort - oops, I meant undercover cop - based on a fake ad on Rentmen? There is nothing that can stop them from doing it. In fact, it is exactly what they will have to do, assuming they can't just shut Rentmen down.

 

It will also lead to this .................

 

https://reason.com/archives/2015/07/02/visa-mastercard-refuse-backpage-payments

 

Sending "high end" US escorting off to websites in The Netherlands, while street-level sex workers and kids and pimps and traffickers just go deeper underground, where there is no Annmarie Lanoce to cooperate, simply won't help.

 

Please give. Even for those whole feel prostitution is bad, this direction doesn't help. It's a campaign designed to abolish prostitution, and in the interest of doing that, it instead abolishes reason, fairness, and pragmatism.

[BSR]

The ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) came close, but was never ratified. Ratification required very strong support from Congress and individual states.

There are four ways to pass an Amendment to the Constitution. The most common (26 of 27 Amendments) is to pass both the House and the Senate by 2/3 majorities, then be ratified by 3/4 (38) of the state legislatures. As difficult as the process is, the Equal Rights Amendment was sailing to ratification: the Senate passed it 84 to 8, the House 354 to 23. The ERA was written into both the Democrat and GOP party platforms. Three presidents - Nixon, Ford, and Carter - supported it. 30 states ratified in the first year after it was sent to the states (a proposed amendment is allowed 7 years to be ratified by the requisite 38 states). The number of states that ratified the ERA had increased to 35 when (dum da dum dum) Phyllis Schlafly took notice. Schlafly testified at 41 state hearings to argue against the ERA. And just like that, the proposed amendment that looked like a slam dunk (or as close to a slam dunk as a constitutional amendment gets) was dead in the water. The original 7-year time limit lapsed, and despite a 3+ year extension, no additional states ratified the ERA. Despite strong, some would say overwhelming, support early on, the ERA died on June 30, 1982. All attempts to revive it failed.

 

The point of this little history lesson is that yes, it is extremely difficult to amend the U.S. Constitution. That's the way I like it, and it's one of the very few things that Americans of all stripes (liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, union or right-to-work, what have you) seem to agree on.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I certainly believe in the good intentions of Rentboy, and I don't see the characteristics that most criminal enterprises have. The "Cash4Class" scholarship fund" however may or may not put a lot of weight in the balance. (Let's make sure that it doesn't put weight in the other scale of the balance.)

 

That's exactly my point. The $1.2 million seized is a drop in the bucket. And certainly $1500 is a drop in the bucket. To win, both in court and in the media, DHS is going to argue about intent - that is what the phrase "global criminal enterprise" conjures up. Rentboys can be called a lot of things, but two words I like using are educators and entrepreneurs. I've been a sex educator, in that I've helped clients deal with their coming out issues. I have friends who've used escorting to earn PhDs. I have friends who are using escorting to start businesses and create jobs. Where's the "global criminal enterprise?" A lot of escorts are enterprising, but not in a criminal way.

 

Maybe there are dark connections lurking behind the Rentboy case. But those kind of allegations were never actually proven with Redbook. They haven't been made in the 22 page complaint against Rentboy.

[Dave]

I have the names of the lawyers for each of the seven people arrested. I'm going to keep that in confidence, but I can tell you that no one has Sperlein showing up as their counsel.

 

I liked what rvwnsd wrote earlier - and I'm going to paraphrase it here: Email Sperlein and ask him for some background on the fund and why he created it.

...if anyone wants to do that and report back here, that would be great.

 

I also know that there's a not-for-profit being created for the purpose of legal assistance to former rentboys/advertisers listed on the site. it should be announced shortly.

 

meanwhile, clients - if you haven't done so yet, please contribute to the crowdfunder for the seven arrested: https://life.indiegogo.com/fundraisers/daddysreviews-com-clients-help-support-rentboy--2

 

if you're not yet compelled to do so, let me also paraphrase Steven Kesslar here:

Tens of thousands of Gay men should be able to use the Internet freely to do things that empower, educate, and prevent abuse among both escorts and the clients who hire them.

This crowdfunding effort is important. It shows we are willing to unify.

If you could give what a typical escort charges for an hour of his time - $200 - our goal for the seven arrested would very quickly add up to $200,000.

If you can only swing $20, great - that will help, too! Come on, readers of this forum - please, everyone, just GIVE SOMETHING.