What do these terms mean?

[david78nyc]

I'm new to the world of m4m massage and am trying to find my way. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the forum; but masseurs use so many terms in their descriptions, and clients in their reviews, that I'm hoping to decrypt some of these codes. What do people mean by:

 

-Sensual

-Erotic

-Custom

-Interactive

-Full body

 

Thanks for helping out a newbie!

 

PS: Are the descriptions/reviews not explicit so folks don't face "rent boy" style harassment and prosecution? I assume so...

[corndog]

These terms tend to mean different things to different people, so when a masseur advertises with these words, they're giving you a suggestion but not really a promise of what they're offering. With that disclaimer in mind, I'll offer my opinions about what the usually mean:

 

Sensual

In a sensual massage, the client is usually undraped and the masseur may or may not be clothed. To some masseurs, a sensual massage is soft and gentle, but not sexual, but to other masseurs, sensual is almost, but not quite, having sex.

 

Erotic

An an erotic massage almost always takes place with both people nude, and often involves a lot of mutual touch, and maybe even sex. If an erotic massage doesn't include a "happy ending," you can consider yourself misled and ripped off. Sometimes, an erotic massage isn't really a massage at all, but just coded language for an escort, which can be disappointing if you really want a massage.

 

Custom

"Custom" is a relatively new invention which I credit to massagem4m.com. A few months back, in order to avoid the kind of problems that rentboy has recently had, massagem4m removed the word "erotic" from their site, replacing it with "custom" in almost all cases. A silly ploy that is unlikely to fool anyone.

 

Interactive

This is usually meant to mean that mutual touch is allowed, and implies that you'll be able to touch and fondle the masseur as he is massaging you.

 

Full Body

This very gently implies that the massage will include your genital region. However, it gives the masseur a lot of leeway to wiggle out of that promise.

 

All of this coded language is used in two different ways. By reputable, respectable masseurs it is used to discreetly describe their services without risking their certification, or violating the rules that some sites have against explicit language. Unfortunately, it is also used by disreputable masseurs who want to lure you in with the expectation of an intimate experience, but then when they deliver a cold, boring, spa-style therapeutic massage you really have no room to complain because that's all they've ever promised. I know of at least one masseur who advertises an erotic massage (and even "tantra") that, in fact, never even removes his shirt.

 

I think that there are also quite a few would-be escorts who advertise as masseurs because they feel that they're only able to perform sexually with someone they're attracted to. With those masseurs, if you "click," you'll get a escort-style experience, but if they're not in the mood, you'll get a mediocre massage -- and, once again, you can't really complain because that's all they've ever promised.

 

So, you might ask, how you can know what you're signing up for? Bottom line, you can't. But you can ask some questions that'll give you more hints. If the masseur's ad doesn't mention whether they are nude, ask them. You can also ask them if they enjoy mutual touch. Beyond that, I wouldn't recommend asking them anything specifically sexual, as they are unlikely to give you a straight answer, and may be offended. You can also consider their advertised rate; if they're advertising massage for $200/hour or more, they are either offering escort services, or they're trying to rip you off.

 

My personal strategy is to seek a massage in the hopes that I get a real, quality, serious massage, and then consider it icing on the cake if it happens to get a little steamier than that. In light of the current rentboy kerfuffle, I take some comfort in knowing that by hiring for massage, but being open to sex if it happens, I'm staying on the right side of our silly laws.

[Irtwo]

Wow, Corndog, what a great detailed reply. This should go under Sticky for everyone to see.

[RyanDean]

Wow, Corndog, what a great detailed reply. This should go under Sticky for everyone to see.

Totally agree.

[david78nyc]

I don't know what "Sticky" is but this is just what I was looking for.

 

Thanks!

[RadioRob]

A "sticky" message (or sometimes called a "pinned" message) is a message that is "stuck" to the top of the forum list guaranteed to be on page 1 at the top of all regular messages. Sticky messages are typically reserved for very important information/announcements, etc.

[rvwnsd]

Given last week's events, I think this will not be a sticky any time soon. Bad timing and all.

[BaronArtz]

Given last week's events, I think this will not be a sticky any time soon. Bad timing and all.

 

Exactly! No offense, but this looked like an inquiry from an investigator trying to document an indictment against masseurfinder (or a similar website). I am just nervous about newbies showing up and asking various questions. Sorry!

[corndog]

Exactly! No offense, but this looked like an inquiry from an investigator trying to document an indictment against masseurfinder (or a similar website). I am just nervous about newbies showing up and asking various questions. Sorry!

 

No offense taken. It's interesting: when I wrote that post, I wasn't thinking at all about the rentboy kerfuffle, but rereading it, I think that it serves to defend sites like masseurfinder.

 

To restate what I said, all of this coded language may lead a person to hire a masseur hoping for sex, but none of it can be definitively interpreted as an agreement to have sex for money. If a person hires a masseur for a massage, and sex happens to transpire, I don't think they've broken any laws. If you go to a coffee shop and flirt with a waiter, hoping that sex transpires, you are not guilty of any crimes.

[david78nyc]

OMG re-reading my original post I can totally see how it came across that way. FWIW, I'm not a narc.

 

I've gotten a bunch of therapeutic massages before, some with a sensuous edge, but I'm interested in taking them to the next level. I don't want to be blacklisted because I know I'll benefit from folks' feedback.

 

For example: I want a massage on Friday, and Shaun Lagger (who's rates are great) isn't responding to texts. I'm thinking Koss or Pasha, both of whom have gotten a lot of love on this site (and both of whom are $140/hr).

 

Thoughts? Or are there others in that range I should consider?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

PS: I realize a narc would have to say he's not a narc. I can't win!

[+ Gar1eth]

In my experience-but I'll admit to not getting massages that often, the majority of the time sensual = erotic and 'full-on' sex doesn't usually occur.

 

Gman

[BaronArtz]

Sorry david78nyc - from private messages received from other posters on this board, I am not the only one who has noticed an uptick in 'lead in questions' from newbies. In light of the circumstances you know, that does not inspire confidence. This is a public board. I am not going to give out information about Shaun, Koss, Pasha or anybody else if it could lead to a set up and a possible arrest. Thank you for your understanding.

[+ nycman]

PS: I realize a narc would have to say he's not a narc. I can't win!

 

He's a narc.

[BaronArtz]

He's a narc.

 

I thought so too. And it could be a 'she'. The writing style seems feminine to me.

[+ Gar1eth]

He's a narc.

 

I thought so too. And it could be a 'she'. The writing style seems feminine to me.

 

Of course any of us could be a narc-even old timers on here could be depending on how long this site has been monitored. Or there could be non narc law enforcement agents who use this site for non job related reasons.

 

But I want to thank BaronArtz for bringing up the possibility of narcs. I hadn't even thought about something like that. I guess it behooves all of us to be chary of requests about specific guys at this time especially from newbies to the Forum.

 

But I will admit to not seeing anything particularly feminine in david78nyc's post.

 

Gman

[corndog]

He's a narc.

 

I thought so too. And it could be a 'she'. The writing style seems feminine to me.

 

Do you guys have any facts to substantiate these claims, or are they just "feelings" or "intuition?" I think that it's reasonable to state that you're suspicious of the OP, or that you "have a feeling that he's a 'narc,'" but to state it so matter-of-factly only serves to amplify the level of paranoia, and send a message to all current a future newbies that they aren't welcome here.

 

Many people here have objected to the Rentboy takedown as an act of repression against the entire gay community. Although I agree that it is prudent to watch what we say around here, if we shut down discussion altogether, we are accepting the repression and losing the war against us.

 

As for my response to the original poster, I stand by it, even if he or she is a member of law enforcement. I acknowledge that I have hired masseurs, often after seeing their ads on various websites, including masseurfinder, massagem4m and even rentboy/manworks. I'll even admit that some of those massages have taken a sexual turn. However, I'm completely comfortable that I've never contracted for sex in exchange for money. I hire guys for massage; I never know what will actually transpire.

[BaronArtz]

First it was the lead-in nature of the question, then the follow up question with specific names of masseurs. That is what gave me the impression that there was something investigative going on above and beyond a normal client inquiry. We should not self-censor but not at the expense of getting a few hard working masseurs in trouble. I could be entirely wrong. I'd like to err on the side of prudence at this point.

 

Here is another example of a series of questions by newbie:

http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/massures-ads-what-to-expect.107120/#post-996632

 

Similar tone of questioning ... As if they are trying to select some masseurs for a sting. Is there a dick pic in their ad? Check. Is the massage described as erotic? Check. Let's mention some high profile names and see what comes back. Check

 

Or they are thinking about taking down a massage website and getting supporting evidence. I am sorry but WHO needs to ask what 'erotic' massage is? That is like asking what a sling is.

[corndog]

BaronArtz, I appreciate your prudence, and I understand your suspicion, although I don't completely agree with it. I think that the questions read just like newbie questions always have. And, if an investigator was looking for dirt, I don't think they'd need to post, they could just read the normal discussion between established members and find plenty.

 

I would be in total agreement with you if the poster had asked "Do you think that Masseur Peter or Masseur Paul would include sex in their massage?" That would be a leading question. But, the most explicit thing the OP said was that he'd like to "take it to the next level," which we could reasonably interpret to mean that he wants a really strong deep-tissue massage.