Fucked on both ends .... Retirement risk

[+ stevenkesslar]

An interesting and scary companion piece to what I posted on college costs and student debt:

 

http://time.com/author/greg-smith/

 

With guaranteed pensions going the way of the dinosaur, students who will start saving late because it will take longer to pay off debts on the front end are likely to have less waiting for them on the back end as well.

 

As the article says, half of Americans have no access to any workplace retirement plan whatsoever.

[+ azdr0710]

baby boomers are now aged 51 to 69 years old.....the next 30-or-so years are going to be really messy for health care, Social Security, retirement, everybody.....

 

politicians can't make the necessary adjustments for fear of you-know-why.....and self-serving, scaremongering groups like AARP certainly don't help.....

 

it will only take an apparent crisis before the general public will make the changes.....by then, it will be a rough time for all......

[+ WmClarke]

Yep. My pension is decent, but people hired recently by my organization lose one of the major pension benefits. Gotta cut costs somehow--the "new" people pay.

[+ WilliamM]

polticians can't make the necessary adjustments for fear of you-know-why.....and self-serving, scaremongering groups like AARP certainly don't help.....

 

I would not necessarily call the AARP scaremongers, but the organization should not be endorsing specific medicare gap plans (as they were once called) or insurance plans.

[bigvalboy]

azdr0710[/color]' date=' post: 975487, member: 5778"']baby boomers are now aged 51 to 69 years old.....the next 30-or-so years are going to be really messy for health care, Social Security, retirement, everybody.....

 

Curious azdr...Messy for whom? Are you saying messy for the retiring Boomers or the millennials that will be trying to retire?

[+ azdr0710]

Curious azdr...Messy for whom? Are you saying messy for the retiring Boomers or the millennials that will be trying to retire?

 

I'm no expert at all, but thinking it'll be messy for almost everybody: the ever-increasing amount of boomers trying to get health care as they age (and those who can't pay at all for it), younger taxpayers having to cover these costs, politicians who don't have the guts to make the hard decisions, and, perhaps most curious of all, the $10/hr worker saddled with increasing social security withholding that gets transferred to comfortably-retired folks who paid only pennies into the system......

 

admittedly, I'm no great debater and am no match for the Politics posters, so only posting this here in the safety of The Lounge!

[bigvalboy]

I'm no expert at all, but thinking it'll be messy for almost everybody: the ever-increasing amount of boomers trying to get health care as they age (and those who can't pay at all for it), younger taxpayers having to cover these costs, politicians who don't have the guts to make the hard decisions, and, perhaps most curious of all, the $10/hr worker saddled with increasing social security withholding that gets transferred to comfortably-retired folks who paid only pennies into the system......

 

admittedly, I'm no great debater and am no match for the Politics posters, so only posting this here in the safety of The Lounge!

 

Love this...So I will refrain from debate sir, and simply allow you your opinion, and the safety of the Lounge. Though may I humbly say that I disagree?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Love this...So I will refrain from debate sir, and simply allow you your opinion, though may I humbly say that I disagree?

 

What are your thoughts BVB?

 

I can see this both ways. The projections for when Social Security and Medicare will run out of money keep being pushed further out, meaning every time a new projection is released we have more breathing room. Liberals like Paul Krugman have used this to say, "See, I was right. All those scaremongers who wanted to inflict certain pain now to avoid eventual pain way down the road were wrong." And he has a point. One driver is that we have been bending the curve of health care inflation down, at least recently. Maybe it's just because we had a big recession, but I'd actually give Obama some credit for that as well.

 

Regardless, decades from now the money will run out if we stay on our current track. And all the polls I've seen indicate the majority of Americans get that, but they still won't support even modest changes. My guess is that's at least partly because everybody is afraid and nobody really trusts the politicians not to fuck this up.

 

I feel like my patriotic duty is to beg the government to raise my retirement age by a year or two, and possibly do a few other tweaks. I'm at the young end of the Boomer generation, and most reasonable proposals I'd like to see passed - like Simpson Bowles - would make retirement a little tougher for me but leave my older siblings, as well as my parents, unscathed. Any good political deal has to exempt people who are retired or are close to retirement, I think.

 

I think the political bottom line is that if some of the Boomers, like me, are willing to give up a little, it will help the Millenials a lot when they retire.

 

Some of the biggest divides in US politics right now are not about race or gender, but about generations. I think the next President would do well to focus on this and use his or her political skills to foster a cross-generational New Deal of sorts.

 

How's that look to you, my sweet man of color?

[bigvalboy]

What are your thoughts BVB?

 

As your older sibling...excellent synopsis.

 

Like many Boomers, I worked my ass off since day one, and like a good Girl Scout, I did everything I was suppose to do, paid faithfully into the system, and put the rest of my money elsewhere, to cover my saggy broke ass for a rainy day. I deserve every penny owed to me..period. Life is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Most people spend more time planning a vacation than they do their financial future. SS was never designed as a retirement, it was meant only as an addition to, and far too many older Boomers thought of it incorrectly. Robbing their 401's and stealing their equity in their homes to live "The Good Life". Planning ones retirement years is tricky business, and requires patience patience patience...but in the end, I can't save the world, nor do I want to. Alls I want is enough money to tip those little white dancing boys at the Boardwalk. :DSooo... that's it from me...I'll be down in the gallery if you need me to chat. Okliehomo posted a kick ass link. and feel free to call me an asshole.

[+ stevenkesslar]

As your older sibling...excellent synopsis.

 

Now that is totally fucked!!!

 

Here I thought if you were a man of color like you promised we could really get it on someday. I mean, you know I'm all into black and Latino and older and thuggy and what not.

 

But sex with my older brother? Dude, that's incest! That's totally fucked up!

 

Talk about a big disappointment.

[+ WilliamM]

SS was never designed as a retirement, it was meant only as an addition to, and far too many older Boomers thought of it incorrectly

 

My grandparents were retired when social security was passed and signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt. It would have made all the difference in the world to them if they had been eligible for social security. They both lived well into their 80s, and their children (including my mother) contributed a small amount each week for essentials.

 

SS may not have been designed as a sole retirement benefit, but it helped many, many people who were not able to save money because of the depression.

[+ purplekow]

The baby boomers are indeed the pig in the snake. It will take 30 years or more to pass it. It would have been wise to slowly increase the age of social security benefits over time starting years ago as life expectancy increased.

And for those who say, I deserve every penny I get because of what i put in, ought to calculate how much they put in and how much they will get out if they live to be 80. That would be, for those retiring at 65 and having paid maximum payment for 5 years (i think it is 5 years still it may have changed) amounts to more than $400,000. Granted, interest was gained on that money. Those that die early of course, supplement those of us that live to be 100.

[+ stevenkesslar]

My grandparents were retired when social security was passed and signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt. It would have made all the difference in the world to them if they had been eligible for social security. They both lived well into their 80s, and their children (including my mother) contributed a small amount each week for essentials.

 

SS may not have been designed as a sole retirement benefit, but it helped many, many people who were not able to save money because of the depression.

 

As was discussed on some other thread, Social Security and Medicare have pretty much eliminated poverty among the elderly during our lifetime. It's a huge societal victory.

 

Thanks William for the reminder on how much of a difference that's made compared to the bad old days.

[Frequentflier]

I think SS and Medicare should be changed to work like a defined contribution plan, but mandatory. Everyone has to pay in and the benefits assume a six percent return on investment. Teach everyone in high school the math. You get your money back plus the aforementioned earnings and then benefits stop. You die before, the balance on your SS account goes to your heirs. You run out of benefits or can't live on the amount, you get welfare/Medicaid. We won't be talking about SS running out of money anymore and the benefits will be reported for what they are.

 

For too many of us I don't think it's right that we pay in for 45 or more years to maybe live 17 years retired and some people want to increase the retirement age. Also, not all workers drive a desk or computer. The government isn't doing me a favor giving me back my money as SS. Ask a construction worker to work longer before getting SS and it's a real problem for him/her after 45 or more years.

[bigvalboy]

The baby boomers are indeed the pig in the snake. It will take 30 years or more to pass it. It would have been wise to slowly increase the age of social security benefits over time starting years ago as life expectancy increased.

And for those who say, I deserve every penny I get because of what i put in, ought to calculate how much they put in and how much they will get out if they live to be 80. That would be, for those retiring at 65 and having paid maximum payment for 5 years (i think it is 5 years still it may have changed) amounts to more than $400,000. Granted, interest was gained on that money. Those that die early of course, supplement those of us that live to be 100.

 

I said "every penny owed to me". There's a difference. What I get is owed to me by government calculations. I've maxed out my payment into the system continuously since I was 18 years old.

[bigvalboy]

My grandparents were retired when social security was passed and signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt. It would have made all the difference in the world to them if they had been eligible for social security. They both lived well into their 80s, and their children (including my mother) contributed a small amount each week for essentials.

 

SS may not have been designed as a sole retirement benefit, but it helped many, many people who were not able to save money because of the depression.

 

A nod of respect to your grandparents WilliamM...

[instudiocity]

The baby boomers are indeed the pig in the snake. It will take 30 years or more to pass it. It would have been wise to slowly increase the age of social security benefits over time starting years ago as life expectancy increased.

And for those who say, I deserve every penny I get because of what i put in, ought to calculate how much they put in and how much they will get out if they live to be 80. That would be, for those retiring at 65 and having paid maximum payment for 5 years (i think it is 5 years still it may have changed) amounts to more than $400,000. Granted, interest was gained on that money. Those that die early of course, supplement those of us that live to be 100.

I'll make you a deal, you get SSA to match my average rate of returns on my IRAs and 401(k) on the 15% contribution of every dollar of my income from my 18th birthday to my 60th and I won't gripe about SS... Fact is if they matched my rate of return and paid ONLY ME, I'd retire tomorrow at $120k per year and never touch the principal.

[instudiocity]

I think SS and Medicare should be changed to work like a defined contribution plan, but mandatory. Everyone has to pay in and the benefits assume a six percent return on investment. Teach everyone in high school the math. You get your money back plus the aforementioned earnings and then benefits stop. You die before, the balance on your SS account goes to your heirs. You run out of benefits or can't live on the amount, you get welfare/Medicaid. We won't be talking about SS running out of money anymore and the benefits will be reported for what they are.

 

For too many of us I don't think it's right that we pay in for 45 or more years to maybe live 17 years retired and some people want to increase the retirement age. Also, not all workers drive a desk or computer. The government isn't doing me a favor giving me back my money as SS. Ask a construction worker to work longer before getting SS and it's a real problem for him/her after 45 or more years.

It is a defined contribution plan 15% of your income.

[bigvalboy]

Now that is totally fucked!!!

 

Here I thought if you were a man of color like you promised we could really get it on someday. I mean, you know I'm all into black and Latino and older and thuggy and what not.

 

But sex with my older brother? Dude, that's incest! That's totally fucked up!

 

Talk about a big disappointment.

 

You don't want me SK, and I can't afford you. Why after hangin with the Buffet's of the world, there's just enough left over of my little government check to stuff a few dollar bills down your pants, and certainly not enough to keep you in Gucci Loafers.

 

http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/307929_AIX00_4715_001_web_full.jpg

 

Do you like the color? It's very Florida.

[bigvalboy]

...AND see what you've started SK, another God damn thread that's going to go on for 5 days.

[Kenny]

Two simple steps: First, remove the cap; currently, just the first $118,500 of income are subject to SS tax, but it should be all of one's income. (The present arrangement is just another sop to the rich.) Second, lower -- not raise -- retirement age, opening up millions of jobs for younger generations who would then be paying into the system.

[instudiocity]

Two simple steps: First, remove the cap; currently, just the first $118,500 of income are subject to SS tax, but it should be all of one's income. (The present arrangement is just another sop to the rich.) Second, lower -- not raise -- retirement age, opening up millions of jobs for younger generations who would then be paying into the system.

We don't need to lower retirement age, we've got disability, survivors, and supplemental security income for young deadbeats.

[Kenny]

We don't need to lower retirement age, we've got disability, survivors, and supplemental security income for young deadbeats.

Deadbeats? You mean, like laborers? Truck drivers? Farm workers? Yeah, raise retirement to 70; the hell with 'em if they can't keep up.

 

Sheesh.

[+ stevenkesslar]

...AND see what you've started SK, another God damn thread that's going to go on for 5 days.

 

No. You're confused. That's how long it takes me to cum when I jack off. Why else do you think I'd be at the fucking computer all day?

[+ stevenkesslar]

You don't want me SK, and I can't afford you. Why after hangin with the Buffet's of the world, there's just enough left over of my little government check to stuff a few dollar bills down your pants, and certainly not enough to keep you in Gucci Loafers.

 

http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/307929_AIX00_4715_001_web_full.jpg

 

Do you like the color? It's very Florida.

 

Sheesh. What do you take me for? A high class whore? I'm all about Palm Springs and flip flops. Although truth be told I did just land in Key West. Headed off to see Warren right now.

 

And by the way, we do know most retired people these days still draw more from Social Security than they put in, even assuming a decent rate of return, right? In addition to raising my retirement age, I'd also be all for means testing it to so that rich old whores like me even got less than we put in. That's me. Whorish and liberal.