What if after a session, you felt you deserved more $$$

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

The client offered me $500 to come meet him at a hotel for two hours. It was late at night, but not too far away—so my mindset was basically: "Well, if he's not real, I haven't traveled too far and can just go grab something to eat and then go home." I had been set up like this before, so I was suspicious, and he had to talk me into coming. So I show up and an older man answers the door in his underwear. He's not bad looking, and seems nice enough—and it's a nice, big suite at the Renaissance Hotel. Suddenly someone comes out of the other room and he's very, very young—and he immediately asks if I want to do some coke with them in the other room, where everything is set up on a table, along with sex toys, clothing, etc. At this point I have been escorting for about 2 months and have never been exposed to any of this behavior—in this context or in my personal life. I'm unsure of what to do, and the kid pulls me aside and says: "Please don't leave. I'm an escort too, and I need someone to distract him for a while so I can take a break. Hang out for a bit." The kid shows me his escort profile to prove that he's real and not someone underage. The man explains that he has hired the other kid to travel with him and that despite their age difference, the kid is "the one in control here." The kid brags about how much money he is going to make off this trip, and how if the client doesn't behave he's going to be "punished" and have to pay even more. The client seems like he's totally into being dominated—and in retrospect it's like one of those situations where the client gets off on being an ATM. They start quizzing me on how escorting has gone for me so far, and they do a shot. They seem friendly enough and aren't trying to push me to do anything other than the first invite. I figure: I'm here and I might as well stay for the time. We talk back and forth for a while and the kid is ready to play some more with the client, but wants to do it by himself. It is not presented as an option that I stay or join in. That is fine by me. The client asks "How much do I owe you?" and before I can answer the kid says: "Give him $800." The client whips out a wad of money (like a BIG wad of money) and counts out eight one-hundred dollar bills. They both thank me and the kid shows me to the door, kisses me and thanks me for showing up.

 

The client and the escort both were lucid and completely able to carry on conversations and function. From my perspective, they were "coked up" because they were doing cocaine. I saw them each do a hit while I was there. Do I know their level of "impairment?" No. But I don't know the level of impairment of any client I have when we enjoy a glass of wine or some drinks together—and every one of these clients are technically impaired as well, are they not? The law says so. Believe me, I've had my share of clients get tipsy—as I'm sure many escorts have. Does this mean we shouldn't accept payment from them because they are somehow at a disadvantage? And as far as Amoco's being okay with me being paid the amount I'm supposed to get for showing up (but apparently no more than that, other than perhaps a reasonable tip—and really, what is "reasonable" these days, especially when that Jesus guy keeps tipping waitresses thousands of dollars)—does that mean that after my client has a heart attack and I call 9-1-1, is that when I should get my $220 out of his wallet before I leave? Or should I not get paid at all?

 

I mean—I don't want to be unethical.

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grey_area

 

It's not my job to play babysitter to an adult man. It is my job to show up, be present, be friendly and truthful and honest, and to offer all the services and qualities that I say I will bring to the table. This is something I have offered since the first day I started escorting. The "gifts" that were mentioned in a comment above developed over time. Of course I have made mistakes as an escort, especially when I first got started. Clients do this all the time—and to address MiamiLooker's spurious conclusion about my age being a factor to possibly "explaining my actions," age is irrelevant. The 50-year old client who contacts me for the first time and fumbles and stumbles through our time together does so out of inexperience, not age. I'm not sure why that's not obvious to everyone, given the number of threads that have been devoted to helping newbie clients, or comments made by them. Even if my client from twelve years ago was under the influence of a drug—he was able to function. He was able to call me and set up an appointment. He was able to sit and carry on a conversation. He was able to ask me how much he owed me. And he was able to go through the process of counting out money and paying me. And, as someone pointed out to me in a private discussion—he probably spent a significantly higher amount of money on the coke than he did me. He was also married. Ooops.

 

It would be one thing if this entire discussion were presented in a neutral tone, and the focus was "What did you learn from the experience, and how did it affect your future interactions with clients and how you handle situations involving drugs?" But that tone is strangely absent—go figure. Has that question even been asked? If it has—I don't remember. That would certainly tie in with my motivation for posting on this thread at all—which was to help Mocha and the posters understand that sometimes unexpected things happen and you have to assess whether or not you can make the situation work or not, even if the terms have changed. The story itself was an add-in to show something that happened to me while escorting during the only time an unexpected person was added to the mix, and the peculiar circumstances that happened as a result. At the time of the event, I didn't have the experience or knowledge that I have now. Basically, all I had was the mantra: "I better make this work somehow because I don't want to displease a client." So all this outrage seems a little misplaced and pointless, since I hadn't yet developed the skills to deal with a situation like this.

 

Now, we're all twelve years later—and everyone has tons of knowledge and experience and everyone always does exactly the right thing. No? What? Seriously? You mean clients and escorts make mistakes or have regrets? In this day and age and with a resource like the Forum? How could that be?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_Valley_PTA

 

The only mistake I feel I made with regard to this client is that I didn't leave from the very beginning—when I realized drugs were involved. I don't enjoy drugs at all, I don't party, and don't think they add to a sexual experience in the least—and that includes alcohol. If others want to turn this into a discussion of unethical behavior and act personally offended as though I somehow stole from this poor, disadvantaged man—well, there's probably nothing I can say (or do) to make them change their opinion of me or the situation. There's a risk of sharing personal escorting experiences, and I'm always happy to do so when it's relevant. And I applaud clients who do the same—even when the experience isn't the best.

 

After all, I participate in the Forum to help people—not to have a reason or convenient venue to judge them.

 

Now bitches... I have to go pack for Europe. Steven Draker has promised me a personal tour of the Eiffel Tower.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Well, Chris did say this incident happened 12 years ago when he had just begun to escort and was “still a naive and scared little escort girl”, so maybe he was only around 18 or so. That may help to explain his actions.

 

Possibly, but I doubt it. I recently asked Chris to party on a cocktail of meth, coke, and ecstasy, so I could tie him up and bareback him. I even offered to pay him $1000 for it.

 

Shockingly, he declined my offer.

 

He may seem tough, but I think he's still just a scared little escort girl underneath. Hopefully someday he'll grow up into a proper whore like me.

[markpaul]

Gentlemen as I age, I look back on what I consider a life well lived. That does not mean that I have always done the right thing and don't have regrets. I will continue to make mistakes. However, I feel like I am striving to be a good, kind, loving, happy person. Shouldn't that be what matters in life. Isn't that what philosophy and religion are all about?

 

Thank you all for allowing me to think through some tough ethical questions. This, too, will help me to be a better person. At some point in my life, I would like to meet Chris. From his many posts he sounds like a good man.

[+ stevenkesslar]

The only mistake I feel I made with regard to this client is that I didn't leave from the very beginning—when I realized drugs were involved. I don't enjoy drugs at all, I don't party, and don't think they add to a sexual experience in the least—and that includes alcohol.

 

+ $800*

 

* Sorry to be a bitch about this, but can the Moral Mary's out there make an exception if I want to have a margarita?

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

+ $800*

 

* Sorry to be a bitch about this, but can the Moral Mary's out there make an exception if I want to have a margarita?

 

Margaritas aren't alcohol. They're candy.

[mike carey]

Margaritas aren't alcohol. They're candy.

Ah, so that was a 'candy hangover' I had in Acapulco?

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Candy Hangover is the perfect drag queen name.

[bigvalboy]

Margaritas aren't alcohol. They're candy.

 

People say that about a lot of things...

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/7239eeb5ab7c132947f69d6e4194c2e1/tumblr_n09m6epupz1tqsvo0o1_500.gif

[+ stevenkesslar]

I must admit that your cheating paradigm made me stop and think.

 

Me too! Here's another anecdote on moral relativity. I can't tell it without sounding self-serving, but it's true.

 

I had a client for years who was married with 2 teenage kids, and not out. The first time he hired me he was nervous as hell. The second time, a week later, he asked me to not wear cologne ever, because his son had smelled it on his Dad that first evening. Fortunately the son wore the same cologne as me and the Dad covered his ass by saying he just wanted to try the kid's cologne.

 

The episode happened early in my escort career, and freaked me out, because it made me realize that I could be a party to breaking up a marriage that involved kids. I went to see a therapist that a client of mine was seeing, Tiger Devore, who I subsequently hired for years. Tiger's advice was simple and emphatic. This is the client's drama, not mine, and I have to honor that by not judging him and by trying to meet his needs. You can argue that is cynical and self-serving. Right or wrong, I followed his advice.

 

Fast forward to years later. The client and I ended up knowing each other for about a decade. During that period he asked for my help "off the clock" figuring out how to buy and manage single-family homes as rentals, which I did. Maybe he just got lucky, but eventually he had enough equity in those homes to pay for I think most of the kids' college educations. To the degree I had any role in those kids' lives, at the margin I played a role that helped get their college education paid for.

 

At some point when his son was in college the Dad, who was no longer a client, called me and was totally freaked out and wanted my advice because his son had come home from school and announced that he was bisexual. The Dad's main concern was that people would figure out that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" and the Dad might be bisexual, too.

 

Guess what my reply was? I told him about my meeting with Tiger over a decade prior, and updated Tiger's advice. This is not your drama, it is your son's, and you have to honor him and love him unconditionally and let this be about him, not you. He totally got the point.

 

Do I feel like it was ethical of me to help a man successfully "cheat" on his wife? No. Does it happen every day? Yes. Did I try to do the "right" thing in the context of a morally ambiguous relationship? Yes. Did I do more harm or good for this guy and his family? Honestly, I can't judge that. If you feel you can, go for it.

 

The only postscript is I am proud and happy that I fought for gay marriage. I know many loving GLBT couples who openly hire escorts and don't have to lie or "cheat." In my perfect world we would all accept who we are and not have to lie about it. That world would not be perfect, but it would be marginally more "right" in my view.

[Amoco]

Frankly, I thought this was a good discussion.

 

My only comment is that the story Chris has related NOW is fundamentally different than the one he presented earlier. Describing the guys this time as completely lucid and blah, blah, blah is a very different characterization than the abridged story from this morning. Given the new info, I have no issues with anything he did but stand by my original position in the abstract: neither escort nor client has the right to take advantage of someone who is incapable of making an informed decision. Period. The end.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Frankly, I thought this was a good discussion.

 

My only comment is that the story Chris has related NOW is fundamentally different than the one he presented earlier. Describing the guys this time as completely lucid and blah, blah, blah is a very different characterization than the abridged story from this morning. Given the new info, I have no issues with anything he did but stand by my original position in the abstract: neither escort nor client has the right to take advantage of someone who is incapable of making an informed decision. Period. The end.

 

Classy way to close Amoco.

 

To me there is nothing black and white about prostitution, married clients, secrets, being in the closet, etc. If there is a black and white on drugs, it is what Chris says. If you walk in the door and the client is unexpectedly on drugs, run.

 

Thanks for provoking a good discussion.

[jawjateck]

After all, I participate in the Forum to help people—not to have a reason or convenient venue to judge them.

 

Very thoughtful replies Chris, but I still prefer the short spontaneous comment you posted in the heat of moment. That was a good one. Where, oh where, did that zinger go?

[Guest countryboywny]

Of course I'm strong enough to handle criticism for an event that occurred twelve years ago when I was first starting out as an escort. I'm as far removed from that person as a first-grader is to a senior in high school.

 

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Let the first man who never made an error in judgment in his youth cast the first stone. C'mon boys..

[robberbaron4u]

A celebrated escort once made remark to me, "It never hurts to ask." On the other hand, I did not buy the cashmere top coat for him which prompted his remark. I yet enjoy the garment, which, indeed, I purchased for my wardrobe, and, each and every time I wear it, I think of him. . .kindly, of course. . .

[instudiocity]

Instudiocity -

 

Let me see if I have this straight now....you're saying that once a client presents in a self-imposed impaired way, that the the typical rules of engagement and generally accepted rules concerning right and wrong are suspended because after all, this fucker is an adult and adults bear the burden of their behavior, right? So that when the fucked up 18 year old essentially tricked the guy into overpaying Chris, Chris has no ethical or professional responsibility to do the right thing, but rather, is free to take whatever he could get? Is this correct because I want to be sure to not misrepresent you?

 

If I am, indeed, correct, let me say this so that I'm clear, too. When the idiot client woke up the next morning and realized what had happened, I'd be the first to agree with you and say "You have nobody to blame but yourself". I completely agree that the client was a schmuck and was responsible for setting up a potentially dangerous and self destructive situation, and hopefully, will learn from it.

 

But what the fuck does that have to do with whether a professional escort has an inherent obligation to do the right thing?

 

If someone gives you the wrong change at the supermarket, do you return it or keep it? After all, the cashier is an adult, too, and how the hell is he/she going to learn to make change if they don't suffer the consequences?

 

And let's be completely fair to escorts, too. They're adults, right? So when they get taken advantage by shitty clients, I don't want to hear any whining from anybody because again, we're all adults here and rules of morality are suspended. If you are stupid enough to go to some strangers place and get ripped off, then maybe you'll learn the error of your ways by bearing the consequences.

 

My point, and I actually think Chris might agree with this, is that we're all obligated in some very personal way to do the right thing regardless of circumstance. Of course the client has responsibility for the situation, but his idiocy does not provide a green light for those around him to abuse and take advantage of him because abuse of anybody, especially impaired assholes, is wrong.

 

What you're describing is the overly simplified Fox News definition of "personal responsibility" - seriously, it was Trayvon's fault he got killed because who the hell was he to be walking through that neighborhood with a dark hoodie on eating twizzlers? He got exactly what he deserved - and you know he had pot in his system, right?

 

C'mon...right is right and wrong is wrong. You don't take advantage of impaired people. Period.

I agree with your first three paragraphs here. The balance of your post is, um, pontifical and I don't even serve the Pope, Fox News or you.

 

But you missed one of my points to you: I pointed out: "Look what your ethical being wrote here -

He should be paid exactly his fee.

The right choice would have been to leave.

He only deserved compensation at the agreed upon rate.

He should have determined his own tip."

 

You're all over the place - leave, get paid, compute your own tip - about what is and is not ethical. If you can't be any clearer as to what is ethical, how can you anticipate how others may or may not react from their underlying morality, which is really what ethics are about - behavior reflecting your own morality.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Very thoughtful replies Chris, but I still prefer the short spontaneous comment you posted in the heat of moment. That was a good one. Where, oh where, did that zinger go?

 

Oh you.

 

Aren't you quick on the draw?

[JDXXX]

Here's another anecdote on moral relativity

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/7239eeb5ab7c132947f69d6e4194c2e1/tumblr_n09m6epupz1tqsvo0o1_500.gif

 

Ah - Mr. Pacino at the old powder again. Here is a good way of proving Steven&BVB anecdote on moral relativity of clients having some playful, but innocent fun of the night with the escorts who do party.

 

I guess if this method can work for Al(demonstrated above here), it can work or relate to anybody in this case of what consequences "living too high on the hog" can cause some people eventually.

 

What do you think people of Steven's new anecdote here? LOL.

 

Playful Joke.......

[Amoco]

Instudiocity:

 

I think we're beating the horse here, but briefly, when you present stuff out of context, it always seems absurd. This is how I would put it:

 

1. According to Chris, version #1, he showed up and the guys were really fucked up. I think we can all agree that leaving is probably the best thing to do.

 

2. Once Chris, version #1, decided to stay, I think he was entitled to receive his agreed upon fee. (Interestingly, $500 for 2 hours, 12 years ago, seems impressive for a newly minted girly escort, but does explain why one would be motivated to stay.)

 

3. I also suggested that If the teenager was managing the payment, I wouldn't be offended by Chris, version #1, accepting what we all may agree is a reasonable tip - maybe $50-$100 for his trouble.

 

4. Chris, version #2, is, as they say, a horse of a different color, and of course is a very different situation that suddenly appears as though our hero did the absolute right thing every step of the way. (Ironically, the anecdote has much less relevance in the rewrite)

 

So I wouldn't really describe my positions as "all over the place", but some of this is semantics.

 

And now bitches, I have to get ready to meet with the Emperor of Japan. Steven Draker promised me a peek under his kimono.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Let the first man who never made an error in judgment in his youth cast the first stone.

 

What in the hell are you talking about?

 

First of all, my whole youth was pretty much an error in judgment.

 

Second, I have two stones. They are pretty big, and they've been known to cause serious damage.

 

Ain't no way I'm tossing either one of them away.

[+ stevenkesslar]

And now bitches, I have to get ready to meet with the Emperor of Japan. Steven Draker promised me a peek under his kimono.

 

That bitch! He promised the same thing to me.

 

And hate to disappoint you, but a peek is all you're gonna get. Unlike our girly man Chris, or the legendary Draker, the Emp just ain't got a whole lot under the kimono.

[Lookin]

Honestly, I'd have grabbed the eight hundred bucks, the coke bowl, and the eighteen-year-old and never looked back. . http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

http://www.animaatjes.nl/smileys/smileys-en-emoticons/atletiek/animaatjes-atletiek-48170.gif http://userimages02-akm.imvu.com/productdata/images_1b00e4e8bdff6a27d155fc1a0f8f24e9.gif

[+ stevenkesslar]

Honestly, I'd have grabbed the eight hundred bucks, the coke bowl, and the eighteen-year-old and never looked back. . http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

http://www.animaatjes.nl/smileys/smileys-en-emoticons/atletiek/animaatjes-atletiek-48170.gif http://userimages02-akm.imvu.com/productdata/images_1b00e4e8bdff6a27d155fc1a0f8f24e9.gif

Exactly, and left Eisenhower behind to deal with the disgruntled and horny client as he came down.

 

That's surely one way to turn a scared little girly escort into a mature, fabulous diva.

[Guest countryboywny]

What in the hell are you talking about?

 

I was responding to some criticism of Chris' ethical judgment following a story he related to the board.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I was responding to some criticism of Chris' ethical judgment following a story he related to the board.

 

LOl. Part of the problem with my dry sense of humor is it's never completely clear when I'm just teasing. So it may not have been clear I was just taking the biblical phrase you quoted and teasing about things like the size of my testicles.

 

I actually agree 100 % with what you said about Chris, and the modern version of the saying is one of my favorites. People who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Or testicles.

[robberbaron4u]

LOl. Part of the problem with my dry sense of humor is it's never completely clear when I'm just teasing. So it may not have been clear I was just taking the biblical phrase you quoted and teasing about things like the size of my testicles.

 

I actually agree 100 % with what you said about Chris, and the modern version of the saying is one of my favorites. People who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Or testicles.

Regretfully, the proverbial "dry" sense of humour is, on occasion, nothing more than a sense of humour dried out and gone to dust. . .