I just fucked Edelman pic, double standard for men and women?

[marylander1940]

Late last month, a girl named Stephanie took to Tinder to let the world know that she had (allegedly!) slept with Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr.

 

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_in_content_image/uykysgvegsv6ucp28mcu.jpg

 

"I fucked odell beckham jr.," she wrote in her Tinder bio, underneath a photo of her (or at least, a girl that we assume to be her) kissing OBJ on the cheek. "Get on my level cunts."

 

And now, it appears as though one girl has decided to try and get on her level. Her name is Sabrina and she just posted a photo of her (or again, a girl that we assume is her) in bed with a man who looks an awful lot like Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman. And on top of the photo, she included the words, "Just fucked Edelman no lie."

 

http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/02/girl-brags-about-sleeping-with-julian-edelman-on-tinder

 

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/mwdus0shucu0h6h6vwr4.jpg

 

his butt, LOL

 

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/25186701/bbjcfzviaaaoyx1.0_standard_400.0.jpg

 

Her punishment, blacklisted from many of Boston's bars.

 

http://i1.wp.com/turtleboysports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/blacklisted.jpg?resize=411%2C753

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Of all the women this guy could have had and he slept with someone who looks like Young Alice from The Brady Bunch.

 

And she's not even nice!

[marylander1940]

Of all the women this guy could have had and he slept with someone who looks like Young Alice from The Brady Bunch.

 

And she's not even nice!

 

Exactly, he could do better with or without money and fame. She's average.

[+ quoththeraven]

Really? I think she's better than average-looking. And it's Stephanie, rather than Sabrina, who's the really not-nice one. "Get on my level cunts [sic -- there should be a comma before "cunts"]"? Really?

 

Unless, of course, you're talking about the elephant in the room: Did Sabrina have permission to take and post that photo? I suspect not. If that's why she's being shunned, fine. If she's being shunned because she slept with a pro football player, or boasted about it, boo. (Is that the double standard referred to in the thread title?) Not that I think that's good behavior, but the appropriate response seems to me to ignore her rather than ban her. Let Edelman decide what to do about any invasion of privacy.

[rvwnsd]

"? ...

 

Hey, hey now. Let's at least give her credit for not putting an apostrophe between the "t" and the "s."

[maninsoma]

Is the implication by some that she had sex with him while he was passed out? If so, isn't that jumping to conclusions? All I see is that she took a photo of someone in bed who was asleep. Just because he fell asleep in her presence doesn't mean he was unconscious when they were having sex. I hope no one is trying to equate this with the recent cases of men having sex with women when they were passed out. What she did is tacky "kiss-and-tell." What they did was criminal.

 

I don't think either of them is particularly attractive.

[marylander1940]

Is the implication by some that she had sex with him while he was passed out? If so, isn't that jumping to conclusions? All I see is that she took a photo of someone in bed who was asleep. Just because he fell asleep in her presence doesn't mean he was unconscious when they were having sex. I hope no one is trying to equate this with the recent cases of men having sex with women when they were passed out. What she did is tacky "kiss-and-tell." What they did was criminal.

 

I don't think either of them is particularly attractive.

 

They fucked, and after that she took that picture.

 

If he had done that to her: fucked her and take a picture of her sleeping in the afterglow, she might press charges for invasion of privacy or even rape. He has money, doesn't he? She could have played professional victim, instead of just bragging about her conquest. Before someone calls me names on here let me tell you that I'm aware maybe 1 or 2 % of accusations of rape are fake, in most cases is "he says" and "she says" case, and I'm ALWAYS on the woman's side.

 

If he had taken a picture of her passed out, I guarantee you I would believe her and assume he raped her (Occam's razor).

 

I don't think women "acting like men" and bragging about their conquest will improve the dating scene of this country.

 

http://blog.tmimgcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/occams_razor_small_poster.jpg?7e70d4

 

http://muslimsi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/quote-occam-s-razor-no-more-things-should-be-presumed-to-exist-than-are-absolutely-necessary-i-e-the-william-of-occam-372636.jpg

[maninsoma]

No, they fucked and after that she took that picture.

 

If he had done that to her: fuck her and take a picture of her sleeping in the afterglow, she might even press charges for invasion of privacy or rape, in this environment he would have problems.

 

I don't think women "acting like men" and bragging about their conquest will improve the dating scene of this country.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that what she did was exemplary. I just don't think it's fair to compare photographing someone asleep after a sex act with having sex with someone who is unconscious.

[marylander1940]

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that what she did was exemplary. I just don't think it's fair to compare photographing someone asleep after a sex act with having sex with someone who is unconscious.

 

I know, I'm just saying if he had taken the picture of her passed out, she could have accused him of rape, and I would have believed her as I always believe women when they say they were raped.

 

He'd be called not a gentleman and possibly a rapist, plenty of lawyers would loved to have a high profile case like this to get the publicity and a nice settlement.

[+ azdr0710]

I always believe women when they say they were raped.

 

 

do you really mean that?.....I think it is commonly understood that consensual sex can turn into rape accusation when the woman regrets her action or feels dissed later by the dude.....

 

do the ladies here feel this way?.....I usually don't wade into these heavy discussions here, but maryland's quote seemed quite a stretch

[+ quoththeraven]

Is the implication by some that she had sex with him while he was passed out? If so, isn't that jumping to conclusions? All I see is that she took a photo of someone in bed who was asleep. Just because he fell asleep in her presence doesn't mean he was unconscious when they were having sex. I hope no one is trying to equate this with the recent cases of men having sex with women when they were passed out. What she did is tacky "kiss-and-tell." What they did was criminal.

 

I don't think either of them is particularly attractive.

 

Whoa, I wasn't implying that, and am puzzled how you got that out of what I wrote.I'm talking about non-consensual photo-taking and sharing, not non-consensual sex. That's a shitty way to act, at the very least, and possibly an invasion of privacy, which is a civil, not a criminal, matter.

 

I agree with your characterization of this as a tacky kiss and tell if Edelman knew about the photo before she took it, but if he didn't, I'd characterize this as a shitty way to act as well as a tacky kiss and tell. Agree that his looks are only average; still think she's mildly pretty as opposed to average based on the symmetry and regularity of her features, etc. With her long narrow face, the updo in the second photo isn't doing her any favors, though.

 

Rvwnsd - Very true!

 

Also, I didn't realize football players' pants became seethrough like that when drenched. I am having a hard time figuring out how it got that wet in that exact spot without being stained -- perspiration?

[+ quoththeraven]

do you really mean that?.....I think it is commonly understood that consensual sex can turn into rape accusation when the woman regrets her action or feels dissed later by the dude.....

 

do the ladies here feel this way?.....I usually don't wade into these heavy discussions here, but maryland's quote seemed quite a stretch

 

I agree that if the roles had been reversed, she could have claimed rape (even though it wasn't) and the photo would have served as circumstantial (not definitive) proof. Why? Because it would have looked like, and been assumed by many, that he had sex with her while she was too drunk to consent and/or passed out (which by definition means there was no consent). That happens a lot; in fact, it's probably the paradigmatic case of date rape, actually, as borne out by research. For links to and summaries of that research, see this:

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?102773-Why-we-pay&p=945925#post945925

 

and this: http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?101576-Anyone-else-been-raped-by-Bill-Cosby&p=935081#post935081

 

There are a number of problems with the "consensual sex turning into a rape accusation" meme. Times have changed. Women are, for the most part, not saving themselves for marriage or whatever and not freaked out about having sex. (In fact, in many ways, they're now encouraged to have sex and then called sluts when they do unless it's in the context of a committed, monogramous relationship.) So the predicate for regret is no longer there.

 

This also completely flips the way we react to the report of any other type of crime. If you read or hear of a report of robbery or burglary, you believe that a crime occurred, irrespective of the victim's gender, right? We all do. There's an automatic assumption that people are telling the truth about whether they've been victimized. But for some reason, when it comes to rape, for many people that assumption is flipped because women cannot be believed in matters having to do with sex.

 

This says terrible things about (a) women in general and (b) women's agency in particular. It says that at least in this one area of life, women are more unreliable witnesses than men. But in fact we have a lot of evidence that suggests just the opposite! It also suggests that women don't know what they're talking about or are passive-aggressive assholes and gameplayers who are out to get men (see: what women say about sex isn't to be trusted). If a woman is dissed by a guy, she's far more likely to refuse to have sex with him rather than accuse him of rape. (Which need not be consciously punitive, although may be perceived that way -- not feeling close enough to someone who acts like he doesn't respect you or your feelings to want to be intimate with them is an understandable response.)

 

Also, women know that they and their behavior will come under more scrutiny than the guy's (or guys') if they make a rape accusation. #YesAllWomen That's a huge disincentive to making and sticking to a false accusation. Think of how many of you felt before coming out (or, if you aren't out, how you feel about it). Scary, right? While it's not a perfect analogy, women making accusations of rape are painfully aware that they're making their lives harder, not easier, no matter what the outcome.

 

Do false rape accusations happen? Sure. (In fact, this has been studied. See this.) False accusations of all sorts of things happen. And it's not impossible for them to arise in the way you suggest. But let's look at the few public cases of false rape accusations I'm aware of: Tawana Brawley's and the Duke lacrosse team rape accusation.

 

Brawley didn't make the accusation because she regretted having sex in the way you suggest. It was to prevent her stepfather from beating her up for staying out all night with her boyfriend. She didn't accuse the guy she'd been with; she accused some other guys as a cover story. A lousy, terrible, wrong thing to do, but very human (she was, after all, a teenager at the time) and done to prevent her becoming a victim of a different crime.

 

As for the Duke case, I don't know what her motivation was, and am not sure whether anyone does, but neither of your suggestions apply.

 

So yes, I believe rape accusations made by people who are old enough to think for themselves (accusations by young children are a special case because of the ease of manipulation/coaching) unless information surfaces that suggests that those accusations are false (DNA results, inconsistent material facts, etc), just as I believe other accusations of criminality until information surfaces that suggest they're false (insurance fraud, etc).

 

I sound and feel like a broken record. But these assumptions let predators continue to operate with impunity. Before anyone gets his back up, no, I'm not accusing anyone here of enabling or promoting rape, just pointing out that certain commonly-held beliefs keep us from holding rapists accountable. This is commonly called "rape culture," which can be an inflammatory term in the wider world but for which there is no real alternative that isn't many more words long. Think of this as consciousness-raising. (How second wave of me!)

[+ quoththeraven]

I don't think women "acting like men" and bragging about their conquest will improve the dating scene of this country.

 

In the days before Twitter, Tinder, and cellphone cameras, she'd have bragged to her friends about it. (It is, after all, but a more extreme version of "The quarterback is taking me to the prom!") The motivation is a little different, though; instead of "see how manly I am," it's "see what a big catch I can bag in bed" and be viewed as an implicit statement about her appearance, how sexually attractive she is, and where she stood in the pecking order of her circle of friends, not so much on what they did in bed and how great she was at it.

 

It's not as much a case of "women acting as men" as you may think because the focus is self-objectification and her success in competing for male attention. It is, however, another symptom of how fucked up our ideas about heterosexual sex are.

[+ FreshFluff]

I agree that she's far better than average looking. Remember that women's looks, unlike men's vary a lot with their hairstyle and clothes. The unflattering bun brought her down in the second picture.

 

Unless, of course, you're talking about the elephant in the room: Did Sabrina have permission to take and post that photo? I suspect not. If that's why she's being shunned, fine. If she's being shunned because she slept with a pro football player, or boasted about it, boo. (Is that the double standard referred to in the thread title?) Not that I think that's good behavior, but the appropriate response seems to me to ignore her rather than ban her. Let Edelman decide what to do about any invasion of privacy.

 

Shunning is a bit much, but I think people should respond to her and let her know that someone she just had sex with without his consent and posting about the encounter is unacceptable. Many people, men and women, in Edelman's position would feel violated about the loss of control over their own image, especially if they work in the corporate world.

 

It's not as much a case of "women acting as men" as you may think because the focus is self-objectification and her success in competing for male attention. It is, however, another symptom of how fucked up our ideas about heterosexual sex are.

 

I agree about her motivation. But what's wrong with bragging about the quality of the men she bags?

 

Exactly, he could do better with or without money and fame. She's average.

 

A well known football player may not necessarily have access to models every single night. Even if he does, there's no harm in choosing a less hot girl on a whim; he can always go back to models the next night.

 

Straight men are, on average, far less picky about their casual sex partners than women, probably because men aren't limited to one kid every nine months . (More recent work challenged this conclusion, but I need to see more research to be convinced.)

[+ Gar1eth]

about their casual sex partners than women[/url], probably because men aren't limited to one kid every nine months . (More recent work challenged this conclusion, but I need to see more research to be convinced.)

 

Wasn't the 'accepted wisdom' also that women would pick less attractive, more reliable vs flash and not reliable- or possibly it showed that women would marry 'Old Faithful' even if she were having sex with hot stud on the side? And the correlation- how often did 'Old Faithful Hubby' end up raising his non-biological children?

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

I agree about her motivation. But what's wrong with bragging about the quality of the men she bags?

 

I don't have a problem with her telling (okay, bragging to) her friends about it. It's the motivation that bothers me. Instead of "Hey, something really cool happened to me, I'm so excited and happy about it, he's a cool guy," it becomes this big status thing that, once again, is based on her basking in the glow of his fame and on one-upping other women. She's irrelevant except as the object of his attention, which in turn confers status. I think this is a terrible way for anyone to look at things. In these days of women working and freedom to use contraceptives, why are women competing over men and using men to score points rather than seeking guys who they either enjoy having sex with or genuinely want to get to know for reasons other than their fame? How is that any better than men using women to feel better about themselves and their manliness?

 

about their casual sex partners than women[/url], probably because men aren't limited to one kid every nine months . (More recent work challenged this conclusion, but I need to see more research to be convinced.)

 

I haven't read the paper, which I suspect will make me stop cold in my tracks many times, given my skepticism about the underpinnings of mating theory as applied to humans, but based on my observations and instincts, it makes sense to me that heterosexual men would be less picky about their casual sex partners than women are. I'm not sure, however, which conclusion it was that more recent work has challenged: that heterosexual men are less picky about casual sex partners than women are, or that the pregnancy cycle has something to do with it? Because I just can't buy the latter. It relies on too many assumptions that don't follow from one another.

[marylander1940]

In the days before Twitter, Tinder, and cellphone cameras, she'd have bragged to her friends about it. (It is, after all, but a more extreme version of "The quarterback is taking me to the prom!") The motivation is a little different, though; instead of "see how manly I am," it's "see what a big catch I can bag in bed" and be viewed as an implicit statement about her appearance, how sexually attractive she is, and where she stood in the pecking order of her circle of friends, not so much on what they did in bed and how great she was at it. .

 

+1

 

maybe heterosexual sex has changed and "Sex in the city" style behavior/life now is the norm... LOL

Are we gays the only ones getting married before having children?

 

It's not as much a case of "women acting as men" as you may think because the focus is self-objectification and her success in competing for male attention. It is, however, another symptom of how fucked up our ideas about heterosexual sex are.

 

quoththeraven: I don't always agree with you but I always appreciate your contributions to the forum, specially the way you make us see thing from a different point of view, you're a like a nicer more educated version of jimboivyo.

[tyro]

Oh God. Who gives a shit?

OK...now all THREE "out" women on the forum have spoken.

T

[Diverdan]

The post by that girl was tasteless and pointless... an invasion of privacy... he should sue her for what she has done...maybe a few more lawsuits would discourage this tasteless behavior. He also should be more picky about whom he shares his room and his bed.... there are much better pickings than this slut...

[+ quoththeraven]

+1

 

maybe heterosexual sex has changed and "Sex in the city" style behavior/life now is the norm... LOL

Are we gays the only ones getting married before having children?

 

quoththeraven: I don't always agree with you but I always appreciate your contributions to the forum, specially the way you make us see thing from a different point of view, you're a like a nicer more educated version of jimboivyo.

 

That's a good point. As gay marriage becomes more common, will marriage become an expectation if a couple wants to adopt? I don't know how much of an effect it has on surrogacy arrangements, but it's one possible factor to consider in deciding whether a couple has a stable relationship.

 

Thanks for the appreciation! I am not unaware that my views are often unconventional, and sometimes controversial. If all I'm going to do is say the same thing as other posters have said, there's not much point to my posting. But I'm not entirely sure what to make of the comparison to a kinder, gentler, and more educated version of jimboivyo. He always makes pithy remarks, a standard mine often don't meet. (Much to the chagrin of some people I send e-mail to ...) The first time I posted here, I did so to disagree with something he said.

 

But if the comparison is due to my plainspokenness, outspokenness, and occasional gruffness, I get it. I am all of those things.

[+ quoththeraven]

Oh God. Who gives a shit?

OK...now all THREE "out" women on the forum have spoken.

T

 

*waves hi* While what she did has interesting implications for social and gender norms, you're right. When all is said and done, who's sleeping with whom is trivial in the face of everything else going on in the world, and any harm she did Mr. Edelman is more than capable of addressing on his own.

 

Moving on ...