Why we pay??

[+ FreshFluff]

First of all, great pic, wonderful body![...]Let me make an observation if you were straight you wouldn't have the same issue, you'd be getting plenty of pussy.

 

Yep, Tonyko is in great shape. He would be getting plenty of girls, especially if he is successful too.

 

I don't know who told daddy's little girl and women of all ages to open their legs on the 2nd or 3rd date but that was an ill advice.

 

Whether it's good advice depends on what the particular woman wants. Some women just love sex, even if they don't know thier partners that well. But yes, the sex-within-2-dates norm makes it more challenging for those women who prefer to have sex in a more well established relationship.

 

In big cities with so many gay men out of the closet, women are used and passed from one guy to another if they're lucky and hot, so many of them are just left behind because they can't compete.

 

Is like the world has turned gay, and promiscuity is the norm in straight relationships.

 

I agree that commitment-free sex is getting to be the norm. To be crude, it's harder to get men to buy the cow if there's a gushing milk fountain is available. But plenty of women, hot and not-hot, still get married.

[bdcjskm]

I started experiencing male intimacy, just a few years ago, and on the other side of 50. My first experience was, interesting enough, with a well reviewed escort (thanks Daddy).

I have hired frequently since, including regularly with my first professional contact. I have NEVER had a bad experience and have been lucky to see some of the best in the business. I have learned much and am appreciative for the opportunities hiring has afforded me, including meeting some of the most interesting people. It has also given me the confidence to, occasionally, explore non professional connections that have presented themselves. All of this explains why I hire. Why I enthusiastically pay for the time is very simple. Time is the greatest asset a person has. I, in my professional life, charge my customers for my time in delivering specialty services. They find value in those services and are willing and eager to pay for the value. The same applies here.

[Tonyko]

Oh I know what he meant and also what you mean by 'unnatural way' ,he could have left out the 'Asian'.

 

NO I did NOT think I was being racist lol but I COULD be desensitized since I'm attracted to Asian men had two BF's who were Japanese-Americans but I certainly did not mean to offend anyone. My oldest bud in the world is African American and after a vacation in the Miami sun he announced at a party that I looked Puerto Rican in front of our Puerto Rican friends and no one got offended lol. IDK, maybe if you ARE a minority it's ok?LOL? (I'm HALF Jewish that count? :-) Anyway did NOT mean to offend :-) And thanks for all the body compliments!! My other half is Italian, so I'm genetically programmed to eat on BOTH sides so staying in shape IS a battle :-)

[marylander1940]

....I agree that commitment-free sex is getting to be the norm. To be crude, it's harder to get men to buy the cow if there's a gushing milk fountain is available. But plenty of women, hot and not-hot, still get married.

 

That's the phrase of the week!

 

It shocks me when a guy is caught by the cops trying to get a hooker. Also the last conviction of the Ohio football players for rape, c'mon guys buy a couple of dinners/drinks.

[+ quoththeraven]

It shocks me when a guy is caught by the cops trying to get a hooker. Also the last conviction of the Ohio football players for rape, c'mon guys buy a couple of dinners/drinks.

 

To take the last point first: Rapists aren't interested in consensual sex. And the dinner and drinks suggestion is open to misinterpretation, as it sounds a lot like "women owe men sex" for taking them out. That feeling of entitlement on one side and obligation on the other is part of what's wrong with the way we think about sex (and gender, but let's not go there, as it tends to make me cranky).

 

Men hire female escorts and streetwalkers (that is what you mean by hookers, right?) for many of the same reasons they hire male escorts. No one (that I know of, at least) have suggested that the m4m hookup scene has abated, but people still hire. Same for men who have sex with women.

 

Tonyko: The difference between your comment about plastic surgery making men look Asian and your friend's comment about your tan (I assume that's what it was) making you look Puerto Rican is that the former was made in a negative context (that is, you were criticizing plastic surgery) and the latter was made in a neutral context (that is, your friend was describing the effect on your skin tone). You were equating "unsightly plastic surgery" with "Asian." Now do you see why people might take exception to your use of the term? I thought about commenting and decided to let it go, but if I had, my comment would have been similar to drintor's.

[+ SundayZip]

Why do I hire?

 

1) In the regular dating world, I don't perform well sexually unless I've developed a high level of trust with a guy and for me, trust is a complicated thing. With an escort, I'm not laying myself out there (psychologically speaking) therefore the whole trust thing plays less of a role.

 

2) I get to have sex with super-hot guys who would otherwise not be interested in me.

[marylander1940]

To take the last point first: Rapists aren't interested in consensual sex. And the dinner and drinks suggestion is open to misinterpretation, as it sounds a lot like "women owe men sex" for taking them out. That feeling of entitlement on one side and obligation on the other is part of what's wrong with the way we think about sex (and gender, but let's not go there, as it tends to make me cranky)...

 

10% of rapist are satires waiting behind the bushes at a hiking path or in mall's parking, 90% of rapists are guys who have a normal life and one day they decide after buying dinner they won't go home horny and they rape girl who doesn't want to have sex with them, after putting a roofie on her drink, or grabbing her by the neck inside the car. After that they go back to have a normal life going on dates and having consensual sex.

 

Because of the common stereotype of a rapist as someone creepy looking and ugly, unable of getting laid on his own or just crazy, waiting in the shadows to attack a woman 24/7, handsome frat men, military guys, and jocks don't get convicted.

 

Rape is always a crime of opportunity, if she's drunk and "rapable" some guys might think: why not? and go back to a normal life after that.

 

Tonyko: The difference between your comment about plastic surgery making men look Asian and your friend's comment about your tan (I assume that's what it was) making you look Puerto Rican is that the former was made in a negative context (that is, you were criticizing plastic surgery) and the latter was made in a neutral context (that is, your friend was describing the effect on your skin tone). You were equating "unsightly plastic surgery" with "Asian." Now do you see why people might take exception to your use of the term? I thought about commenting and decided to let it go, but if I had, my comment would have been similar to drintor's.

 

I know what he meant and it wasn't ill inspired or intended to be mean, he should have used other words.

[Rudynate]

10% of rapist are satires waiting behind the bushes at a hiking path or in mall's parking, 90% of rapists are guys who have a normal life and one day they decide after buying dinner they won't go home horny and they rape girl who doesn't want to have sex with them, after putting a roofie on her drink, or grabbing her by the neck inside the car. After that they go back to have a normal life going on dates and having consensual sex.

 

Because of the common stereotype of a rapist as someone creepy looking and ugly, unable of getting laid on his own or just crazy, waiting in the shadows to attack a woman 24/7, handsome frat men, military guys, and jocks don't get convicted.

 

Rape is always a crime of opportunity, if she's drunk and "rapable" some guys might think: why not? and go back to a normal life after that.

 

 

 

I know what he meant and it wasn't ill inspired or intended to be mean, he should have used other words.

 

Having crossed that line, are they "normal" after that? Isn't it possible that crossing that line changed them in some way, so that they are "broken" in a way that they weren't before they crossed the line?

[marylander1940]

Having crossed that line, are they "normal" after that? Isn't it possible that crossing that line changed them in some way, so that they are "broken" in a way that they weren't before they crossed the line?

 

you know what I meant, but you have a point.

[+ quoththeraven]

10% of rapist are satires waiting behind the bushes at a hiking path or in mall's parking, 90% of rapists are guys who have a normal life and one day they decide after buying dinner they won't go home horny and they rape girl who doesn't want to have sex with them, after putting a roofie on her drink, or grabbing her by the neck inside the car. After that they go back to have a normal life going on dates and having consensual sex.

 

Because of the common stereotype of a rapist as someone creepy looking and ugly, unable of getting laid on his own or just crazy, waiting in the shadows to attack a woman 24/7, handsome frat men, military guys, and jocks don't get convicted.

 

Rape is always a crime of opportunity, if she's drunk and "rapable" some guys might think: why not? and go back to a normal life after that.

 

The facts and copious extant research just don't support the statements in your first and third paragraphs. While you're right that rape is more often perpetrated by someone the victim knows than a stranger, the percentages are not as high as those you cite. More like 20-30% of rapes are committed by strangers. Violent Victimization Committed by Strangers, 1993-2010, Table 1 (Bureau of Justice Statistics, US Dept. of Justice) (23-25% committed by strangers); The Rapist Isn't a Masked Stranger (website of Rape, Abuse, & Incest National Network) (27% committed by strangers).

 

More to the point, research -- most of it by now-retired UMass Boston professor David Lisak -- strongly suggests that while rapists are a small minority, the majority of the ones who've gone unprosecuted are repeat offenders with definite behavioral patterns who are responsible for a large number of rapes each. This is indicative of predation, not accident. While it's not impossible for someone to cross that line and then "go back to a normal life," as you put it, the evidence suggests that this rarely if ever happens. To the extent it does happen, the culture I called out earlier, which assumes sex is something a woman owes a man or which he wheedles from her with drinks and dinner, is to blame. That's part of what's called "rape culture" -- an atmosphere in which rape is normalized.

 

I know I've mentioned Lisak before. Previous link here, where it turns out I cited different sources than those cited below. I realize not everyone reads everything in every thread, and it's unfair to expect that, but expect me to keep addressing this topic each time it comes up until someone convincingly challenges the underlying facts or Lisak's (and others') research, which has been around for awhile and has so far held up to scrutiny. Here's links to some of his papers, which are not nearly as hard to read as many other social science papers and don't make claims not supported by the underlying evidence or research:

 

http://www.wcsap.org/sites/www.wcsap.org/files/uploads/webinars/SV%20on%20Campus/Repeat%20Rape.pdf -- in which he and his co-author note, in the first couple of paragraphs, that it's estimated that between 64 and 96% of rapes go unreported and of those that are, only a small minority, especially of nonstranger cases, result in a successful prosecution. Studies of unreported rape, mainly on college samples, indicate that from 6 to 14.9% of men self-report acts that meet the legal definitions for rape or attempted rape. Ten studies from the 1980s and 1990s are cited for this proposition. In addition, studies of incarcerated rapists reveal a number of shared characteristics between incarcerated rapists and undetected rapists, including high levels of anger at women, the need to dominate women, hypermasculinity, lack of empathy, and psychopathy and antisocial traits.

 

Stephanie McWhorter has documented similar or worse results in a more recent study of Navy enlistees.

 

If I may channel the language used by my (mostly female) compatriots on Tumblr, this is fucking unacceptable.

 

http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/Uploads/SAPR/SAPRMod17_UndetectedRapist.pdf -- I haven't been able to copy and paste the text here, but here's a summary of the characteristics of undetected rapists:

 

1. Sexually motivated and aggressive -- they engage in sex (both consensual and coerced) more often than is typical of men of their age group and sexual activity tends to be an important part of their identity. This suggests that rather than an increased sex drive, their sexual activity is driven by a belief that without it, they are neither successful nor adequate as men.

 

2. View women as sexual objects to be conquered, coerced, and used for self-gratification. They are much more likely to hold rigid stereotyped beliefs about the proper roles of men and women (a form of gender essentialism). They believe in myths about rape that justify their activities and foster them. For example, they tell themselves "women say no to sex even when they really want it" to justify ignoring a victim's protestations.

 

3. Are hostile toward women. They easily feel slighted by and carry grudges against them, viewing them as teases who secretly want to or deserve to be coerced into sex. Their fear of being controlled by women is expressed through a need to dominate women.

 

4. They are part of sexually violent subcultures, such as fraternities and gangs, that reinforce all of the above.

 

5. Hypermasculinity, or toxic masculinity -- Not only are their views of male/female roles rigid and stereotyped and their behavior designed to reinforce their masculinity, aggression and violence are considered crucial markers of manliness. When a woman resists, undetected rapists view it as a challenge to his masculinity and react with anger and aggression.

 

6. Developmental antecedents -- primarily damaged relationship with their fathers that push them toward hypermasculinity and child abuse, particularly physical abuse.

 

These undetected rapists' acts are no more accidental than the crimes of the BTK killer, Dennis Rader, who put up a front as a pillar of the community.

 

As for the paragraph I don't contest: There's more to it than that. Handsome frat men, military guys, and jocks not only often don't get convicted, they often don't get reported or are not tried when they are reported. Many times this is because of the usual victim-blaming and slut-shaming: "she shouldn't have gotten drunk," "she was asking for it," and so on. Why? Because they use the tactics Lisak describes of preying on the most vulnerable -- college freshman; girls and women who are drunk; women who are unlikely to report them. And that doesn't even touch the even less frequently reported rapes with male, rather than female, victims.

[+ FreshFluff]

Some women just love sex, even if they don't know their partners that well. But yes, the sex-within-2-dates norm makes it more challenging for those women who prefer to have sex in a more well established relationship.

 

To be clear: The bolded part above was NOT meant as a criticism.I know women who feel this way; most are very selective about their partners and careful about personal safety and safer sex. My own life would certainly be more enjoyable if I were wired that way.

 

The problem I have is with people, usually men, who try to convince me that I should be wired this way.

[+ quoththeraven]

I know what he meant and it wasn't ill inspired or intended to be mean, he should have used other words.

 

I agree it wasn't malicious, which is part of the reason I didn't comment. It's possible to make comments that are unintentionally racially insensitive. But that's why it's important and useful to take a step back and think about anything one's about to post for public consumption that refers to particular racial or ethnic categories or groups to make sure it doesn't contain unintended negative correlations or assumptions.

[+ FreshFluff]

To take the last point first: Rapists aren't interested in consensual sex. And the dinner and drinks suggestion is open to misinterpretation, as it sounds a lot like "women owe men sex" for taking them out. That feeling of entitlement on one side and obligation on the other is part of what's wrong with the way we think about sex (and gender, but let's not go there, as it tends to make me cranky).

 

Yes, most rapists like the idea of forcing themselves onto someone. A few years ago, someone posted a thread on Reddit asking date rapists to explain their motivations and methods. Most of the posts have since been taken down, but these two articles posted the most interesting parts:

http://jezebel.com/5929544/rapists-explain-themselves-on-reddit-and-we-should-listen

http://www.dailydot.com/culture/serial-rapist-confession-reddit/

 

Key quote: “I wanted the thrill of the chase, and that's what led me to forcing myself on girls.”

 

Tonyko: The difference between your comment about plastic surgery making men look Asian and your friend's comment about your tan (I assume that's what it was) making you look Puerto Rican is that the former was made in a negative context (that is, you were criticizing plastic surgery) and the latter was made in a neutral context (that is, your friend was describing the effect on your skin tone). You were equating "unsightly plastic surgery" with "Asian."

 

I think "made them look Asian" was meant to describe how extreme the change in their features was. It was another way of saying, "They looked like completely different people afterwards." That would be an undesirable result to most people who seek anti-aging surgery, since they presumably want to look like a younger version of themselves.

[+ quoththeraven]

To be clear: The bolded part above was NOT meant as a criticism.I know women who feel this way; most are very selective about their partners and careful about personal safety and safer sex. My own life would certainly be more enjoyable if I were wired that way.

 

The problem I have is with people, usually men, who try to convince me that I should be wired this way.

 

FWIW, I didn't read it as a criticism; I read it the way you intended it, particularly since it was coupled with the statement that many women still get married (i.e., enter into a state-recognized form of committed relationship), whether they're hot or not.

 

We've had disagreements in the past about women and casual sex, but based on your posts in this thread, it seems the issue is more your perception that the prevalence of casual sex is hurting women who don't want to engage in it because men expect it and try to convince women who don't want to engage in it that they should anyway and because it shrinks the pool of men who want relationships with women don't engage in casual sex. Though I'd argue the latter group, if they engage in casual sex, will eventually wind up seeking women who don't.

[+ SundayZip]

How did a thread asking "why we pay?" turn into treatise about the nature of rape? I love this forum!

[+ FreshFluff]

OK, here's a photo of some hot guys to get things back on track.

[Tonyko]

I think "made them look Asian" was meant to describe how extreme the change in their features was. It was another way of saying, "They looked like completely different people afterwards." That would be an undesirable result to most people who seek anti-aging surgery, since they presumably want to look like a younger version of themselves.

 

EXACTLY - Thank you! NUFF said.

[+ Funguy]

OK, here's a photo of some hot guys to get things back on track.

 

Kinky - twins

[TruHart1]

OK, here's a photo of some hot guys to get things back on track.

 

Kinky - twins

 

...and what GORGEOUS twins! Does anyone know their names?

 

TruHart1

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

...and what GORGEOUS twins! Does anyone know their names?

 

TruHart1

 

The Winklevoss Twins. They sued the creator of Facebook.

[+ Funguy]

The Winklevoss Twins. They sued the creator of Facebook.

 

Sorry, they don't escort.

[BabyBoomer]

Kinky - twins

 

Gimme the one on the left

 

~ Boomer ~

[TruHart1]

The Winklevoss Twins. They sued the creator of Facebook.

 

WOW! No wonder they had the beautiful Armie Hammer play both parts in the film!!! I'd never seen how hot they are in real life. I always get a little jealous when guys that good looking are that rich!!!

 

TruHart1

[+ SundayZip]

OK, here's a photo of some hot guys to get things back on track.

 

Hot guys. Thanks Freshfluff! Guys like this are "why I pay".

[Lookin]

Well, generally I think when we want a roll in the hay, we reach into our quiver and pull out the arrow most likely to bring home the bacon. I think this dynamic probably holds true across sexes and across species.

 

It seems that what changes as we move through the days of our lives is the selection of arrows we find when we reach up there. In early days, I could usually rely on youth and looks to get close to the object of my affection. Later on, I'd find a smidge of worldly success and confidence up there, so those were the arrows that were launched. Then came the time that cash was the main arrow left, so that's why I paid.

 

Sadly, these days, when I reach into the quiver, I sometimes come away empty handed. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

http://classic-bow.com/catalog/images/traditional_archery_quivers6.jpg

One the plus side, that empty hand doesn't have to stay empty for long! http://www.3danvil.com/emoticons/jerkoff.gif