A way to warn other escorts of a repeat time waster

[devonhunter]

I think that instead of having these blacklisted clients send money to me (which I cannot think of a way of having them do that doesn't give them ammunition to hurt me later), I am going to have them donate the fees they owe me to their local chapter of the ASPCA. They can email me screen shots of the "thank you" screen and transaction confirmation number/total donation amount, and then I will delete their blacklisting. This clears the debt, and gives everyone better karma to boot. It's not like I need the money so badly... It's my pride that was wounded more than anything else. The animal shelters need the money way more than I do... Yes, I think this is a way to turn shit back into flowers...

[Amoco]

I'm fine with your plan, too, Devon - as I suspect most real clients would be. i am curious about two things:

 

1. What about "legitimate" cancellations? We all knows that we can mean well and unexpected stuff comes up - how would you deal with that? Is there such a thing as a "legitimate" cancellation?

2. Still need a response to escorts who cancel at the last minute and sabotage a client's plans when he might have limited opportunities available to him. You can't do reviews because no appt. took place.

[devonhunter]

Most cancellations *are* legitimate... illness, change of work plans, family concerns, accidents, weather emergencies, etc etc etc etc... The only "cancellations" I have a problem with are the ones that are actually patently obvious, malicious, and/or flippant, time wasting no-shows. As for escorts who cancel in an equally unacceptable manner (and not reviewing that which didn't happen), I had the impression that the ad sites provided options for reviewing separately from here?? I've never had a reason to look at how those work, so I can't say how thorough, effective, or reliable those systems are. But you might look at the options for offering reviews at M4RN and RentMen. I'm fairly certain RentBoy introduced a feature like this, but that would have to be confirmed. Barring that, I've seen plenty of comments and threads here over the years that allow educated clients to know which escorts have a reputation for being... unreliable, as it were.

 

 

PS

Yes, my 2 pm ESTABLISHED client just left. :-)

[gregkidman]

My two cents as a client

 

I am a client and a few times I had to cancel. I give you two instances that actually happened to me. I couldn't believe it when it happened to me.

 

I set up an appointment with a well-reviewed escort. On that day, a few hours before it's time to meet him, I took a shower and douche my ass. Inexplicably, my ass started to bleed. It was like that movie 'Psycho' with a gay twist... I had my hose in one hand and my other hand stopping up my ass, blood shooting all over the tub. Apparently, I inadvertently nicked the rim of my ass with my (very sharp) fingernail. I called the escort to cancel at the last minute, and I couldn't really give him an excuse (too gory or too crazy-sounding). Fortunately, he was a good sport and we re-scheduled.

 

Another time, I set up an appointment with another well-reviewed escort and it was my first time to meet him. Remember, it's his first time to meet me. I was on my way to see him and I stopped at an ATM to get the money. THE ATM ATE MY BANK CARD. I was dumbfounded. I called him and told him that the ATM ate my card. It was hard to tell on the phone if he believed me or not. About a month later, I called and convinced him to give me another chance. Thank g-d he did! He was awesome!

 

My point is, crazy stuff *do* happen to clients.

[gregkidman]

But yes, I also realize that there are some clients who play games or just mean.

[instudiocity]

PS

Yes, my 2 pm ESTABLISHED client just left. :-)

JEALOUS! from two time zones away...

[devonhunter]

Wow... see, that *definitely* falls under the wide category of legitimate cancellations... Glad you're okay now though!

 

Here is how I have elected to proceed:

http://www.devonhunter.info/archives/4444/

[+ WhamIAm]

FWIW -- another client perspective:

 

Discretion and confidentiality are an inherent part of your chosen profession and of the hiring process. Most guys' ads also contain an express promise of discretion. That promise (express or implied) doesn't work only when the escort so chooses.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustrations. My profession also bills by the hour, and is one where confidentiality is required. We too occasionally get cancellations and no shows, at times after significant preparation and/or expense. Unfortunately, that's part of the cost of doing business. For me, it is the businessperson's responsibility to put systems into place to reduce the risk of those writeoffs. That means that clients book and pay for my travel before I come to their town, I'll check references, and new clients have to put up a retainer unless they come from a trusted source. And, of course, past experience. If, as seems to be the case here, you'd been burned once already by a guy, you took a certain risk in contracting with him again, let alone incurring travel costs simply based on his word. In other professions, including mine, it would be inconceivable for personal service providers to publicly disclose deadbeat clients and reveal their phone numbers, email addresses, etc.

 

When you put out personal identifying information on a client, even one who has done you wrong, you open that person up to risks that can far outweigh the offense. And, while you might think you handle disclosures responsibly, others will not. There was a recent thread on this board about a very prominent escort who published on Twitter the personal identifying information (and in one case a picture) of a "client" who sent him to the wrong hotel and a guy whom he thought had disrespected him. He also encouraged his 50k followers to call these guys to harass them. Even when it doesn't go that far, there's a significant potential for abuse. Took a quick look at the Blacklisted Johns site. Some of the criteria there seem pretty random -- handicap? hygiene? In some cases a miscommunication between escort and client, either before or during the appointment, could lead to a listing. And, in some cases, a client who is inexperienced or struggling with his sexuality might simply "chicken out." That sucks, is outing him a proportionate response? (I'll also note on the BJ site, the escort making the report does not have to disclose his name. If you're going to out a client, you should have the balls to put your name behind it. I do give you props for that).

 

That doesn't mean that I don't think sharing of info is important for you guys, certainly in cases of violence, intimidation, theft, abuse, psych problems, non-payment, and others. Having some sort of listing that is behind a firewall for registered escorts only and where complaints are validated is perfectly fair. It looks like that's how the UK database is set up. Yeah, that requires some organization and has costs. But all businesses incur such overhead.

 

All businesses accrue bad debts. Most times, you have to move on and find a way to protect yourself in the future. I see from your blog that you've done that by putting in your own requirements for deposits for new customers. That makes sense from a business perspective (tho, from a client perspective, the amount of the deposit and the terms under which it would be handled would be a big part of my decision to hire someone I hadn't before).

 

Sorry for the long response, but having just started hiring a few months ago, I was pretty amazed when I saw that some guys seemed quite cavalier about disclosing personal info that had been entrusted to them. For me, that's a total non-starter. Just one guy's opinion, though. Take it or leave it as you see fit. Good luck and be well.

[devonhunter]

Thank you for your input. The blacklist stays: Until and unless BlackListedJohns allows my posts to publish on their site. I am the last person here who needs to have consequences of outing to be explained to me (re: Sean Cody). I am not a noob who is doing this out of naïve frustration, and I don't intend to do this unless there is cause. I am tired of this cycle of powerlessness. You say yourself that my requirement for a deposit would be a hindrance? And what is the alternative then? To just accept this for six more years? You say I have to put plans in place to protect my business, and then tell me exactly why I shouldn't. This is the broken logic that got me where I am already. People who don't intend to wrong me won't have a reason to worry.

 

Besides... think of the puppies. Think of the kitties... Would you take food out of their hungry mouths?

 

"I am not moved to tears." - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

[tom1980]

Glad to hear you'll be returning to Dallas. Hopefully next time I'll be available. Feel free to PM me when you plan your next trip.

[devonhunter]

I would be happy to do that.

[killianjamesnyc]

I know your cancelation was from a previous client but may I offer some advice on this. I started doing this back in June and have an overall cancelation rate of less than 5% with nearly all of those being a reschedule. I ask for $25 for all NEW clients. The amount is small enough for someone to not think twice about, but its more than just getting paid. The deposit represents commitment by both parties. The client has committed to a time and date, and I can commit to them that without a doubt no one else takes that space in the calendar.

 

Regarding touring, I sometimes still ask very very good previous clients for deposits when I escort out of town. I kindly explain that before I travel to see them I want to ensure there is a commitment. Just be upfront and honest, they know this is how you make your living, They will understand, I've yet to encounter anyone who hasn't .

 

My advice on outing him, I'd stay away from that. If someone has hired you even once you now have a client relationship, and all client information remains confidential. Its kind of the backbone of the hookie code.

[Nvr2Thick]

Thank you for your input. The blacklist stays: Until and unless BlackListedJohns allows my posts to publish on their site. I am the last person here who needs to have consequences of outing to be explained to me (re: Sean Cody). I am not a noob who is doing this out of naïve frustration, and I don't intend to do this unless there is cause. I am tired of this cycle of powerlessness. You say yourself that my requirement for a deposit would be a hindrance? And what is the alternative then? To just accept this for six more years? You say I have to put plans in place to protect my business, and then tell me exactly why I shouldn't. This is the broken logic that got me where I am already. People who don't intend to wrong me won't have a reason to worry.

 

Besides... think of the puppies. Think of the kitties... Would you take food out of their hungry mouths?

 

"I am not moved to tears." - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

 

I would not do business with an escort who outs his clients for any reason. You certainly have a very legitimate concern, but your black list is not justified regardless.

 

Your client community in general has an expectation of privacy. It's one of the basic tenets of professional escorting. You may feel that this client is a special case because of his lack of professional courtesy and its effect on your business. I don't feel that his violation of professional business practices justifies your own violation of different professional business practices. You're characterizing this black list as a means of protecting your business, but it's clear from your communication that this about revenge. Outing a client on the Internet is an action an escort should never take. It's a power you cannot use. The action itself is unprofessional and it's an action that is completely unrelated to the client's own failure.

 

This reminds me of some of Joey Bryant's reactive policies proposed against his clients -- except this is about 1000 times more dangerous than anything he had ever proposed.

 

An escort who outs his clients for any reason is not a professional escort.

 

I'd recommend that you find a different, and more professional way to protect yourself from damaging no-show, flake clients.

[devonhunter]

Thank you for your advice. I like the $25 idea. That is reasonable. And that's hyperbole: 1000x more dangerous than Joey Bryant... LOL Y'all... Anyway, thank you for the perspective. I needed it.

[JC954]

Hello Devon. I have been a fan of yours for quite some time now. Never had the opportunity to be with you but what I see happening here is something I wish I didn't.

 

With all due respect to you, because you have earned it, this thread is starting to sound and feel like a whining Joey Bryant thread, which is so much less than who you have always been and represented yourself as being.

 

I think it's been clearly heard that you are angry and upset. It sucks. It's unfair. And you want justice.

 

The best justice you will ever have in any of this is rising above it and moving on toward where you want to go.

 

This thread is now beneath you. Or it should be.

 

xoxoxox

[+ quoththeraven]

This is why I don't tour anymore. I tried it years ago but I would have maybe 12 confirmed appointments in for a 4 day tour and 6 would cancel last minute, no show or want to reschedule to the end of the week when I was going home (sorry I can't see you Tuesday but if you had been here Friday it would have been great - yes we've all heard that excuse).

 

In the UK we now have the national ugly mugs scheme, officially a charity but one endorsed by the all police forces, government and local authorities. It's a godsend, I have two very bad experiences listed on it. Verified escorts (those that can prove who they are) are given free, unrestricted access to the data. I wish the United States was as progressive as the United Kingdom

 

https://uknswp.org/um

 

I stopped touring when I ended up coming home from a 4 day tour with £150 and losing £500 of work at home. Yes I made over £700 in Manchester but it costs me £100 in trains, underground and taxis, £70 a night for the hotel and £100 for food, toiletries and so when there on tour it would cost me around £550 for 5 nights (I always checked in late Sunday to be available first thing Monday not 3pm).

 

Guys like us to tour but they don't appreciate that it costs one heck of a lot of money to do so and we need to pay our bills back home as well as the day to day expenses there.

 

I am sorry you were inconvenienced yet again. I would have been furious

 

This scenario is why escorts seek an anchor client in a new city who will pay their the airfare or trainfare. Even if they get appointments with new clients before or after, they're not certain they'll take place until they actually do. Up until then, the client could easily flake or be a setup. The only appointment that is almost certain to take place is the one with the client who asked the escort there in the first place.

 

Besides, an escort who stays longer (either direction) is on the hook for his lodging expenses and for any meal expenses not covered by clients. It's not, as was implied in another thread, a completely costfree deal for the escort.

[devonhunter]

I took it down. I had a public meltdown. I apologize. This is an exceptionally isolating career, and sometimes I can't take the unprovoked disrespect and hateful manipulation (especially when I haven't purposefully done anything to cause people to treat me this way). It's hurtful, because I don't understand it. Mea culpa.

[bigvalboy]

Gentlemen, it's almost disrespectful to compare the writings of Devon to the angry ramblings of Joey Bryant, God Bless him wherever he is. Devon is just expressing frustration in trying to do business in a rather hostile environment. It's a reality, and an expensive one at that, that few of us have ever experienced

 

With all due respect, cut the man some slack....

[TruHart1]

I took it down. I had a public meltdown. I apologize. This is an exceptionally isolating career, and sometimes I can't take the unprovoked disrespect and hateful manipulation (especially when I haven't purposefully done anything to cause people to treat me this way). It's hurtful, because I don't understand it. Mea culpa.

 

Wow. This escort is such a professional that he is willing to take down his blacklist because you have told him it is indiscreet and unprofessional to break escort/client privilege. Kudos to one of the best guys in the business. To compare this thread to Mr. Bryant’s many whiny diatribes is just not justified. Devon’s work ethic as a true male courtesan is a billion light-years removed from Joey’s opinion/perception of his own escorting occupation! Just IMHO!

 

TruHart1

[tom1980]

To compare this thread to Mr. Bryant’s many whiny diatribes is just not justified. Devon’s work ethic as a true male courtesan is a billion-light years removed from Joey’s opinion/perception of his own escorting occupation!

 

I agree completely. Comparing Devon (or pretty much anyone else) to Joey Bryant Jabari Blaine is a low and unfair blow. Them's fightin' words.

[SteveEscort]

This scenario is why escorts seek an anchor client in a new city who will pay their the airfare or trainfare. Even if they get appointments with new clients before or after, they're not certain they'll take place until they actually do. Up until then, the client could easily flake or be a setup. The only appointment that is almost certain to take place is the one with the client who asked the escort there in the first place.

 

Besides, an escort who stays longer (either direction) is on the hook for his lodging expenses and for any meal expenses not covered by clients. It's not, as was implied in another thread, a completely costfree deal for the escort.

 

Yes and that's how I did it too and that's what this whole discussion is about, being let down by the client who brings you to that City

[Anton]

Hey Devon,

 

I'm very sorry that this happened to you, and rest assure, I know how it feels.

 

When asking a down payment of $25 there will be clients who respond that they don't know how to make that down payment and especially how to do it anonymously. Here are just two examples of how I did it a few times and maybe you had already thought of them.

 

If you have a prepaid phone (LOL, which you may not have) you can ask the client to top-up the balance. All the client needs to know is your mobile number and go to the nearest branch of your provider. An alternative is that the client buys you a prepaid gift card and sends you the details of the card by email. You can then use the card online. You don't have the actual card and a problem with prepaid gift cards (for you) is that it's not always easy to spend the last dollars on the card. However, if you do meet with the client, he could give you the card.

 

Use your fantasy and you'll probably be able to think of more ways how to accept anonymous payments.

 

I hope this adds to escorting being full fun again!

 

Sincerely, Anton.

[BaronArtz]

This is an exceptionally isolating career, and sometimes I can't take the unprovoked disrespect and hateful manipulation

 

I am sorry to read this, especially the part about how exceptionally isolating this type of work can be. It makes me think that there has been more going on; the incident with this client could have been a tipping point. We should not underestimate the heavy emotional toll and the effect on relationships that comes from being an escort ... Maybe you should seriously think whether this is all worth it to you and whether you would indeed want to do it for another six years.

 

I hope that the outpouring of support on this site is a consolation for you. Be well.

[SteveEscort]

L

Hey Devon,

 

I'm very sorry that this happened to you, and rest assure, I know how it feels.

 

When asking a down payment of $25 there will be clients who respond that they don't know how to make that down payment and especially how to do it anonymously. Here are just two examples of how I did it a few times and maybe you had already thought of them.

 

If you have a prepaid phone (LOL, which you may not have) you can ask the client to top-up the balance. All the client needs to know is your mobile number and go to the nearest branch of your provider. An alternative is that the client buys you a prepaid gift card and sends you the details of the card by email. You can then use the card online. You don't have the actual card and a problem with prepaid gift cards (for you) is that it's not always easy to spend the last dollars on the card. However, if you do meet with the client, he could give you the card.

 

Use your fantasy and you'll probably be able to think of more ways how to accept anonymous payments.

 

I hope this adds to escorting being full fun again!

 

Sincerely, Anton.

 

Here in England and I am sure there is a similar system in the USA I have a prepay mastercard. Clients can request a mastercard prepay voucher at most UK supermarkets and some local newspaper kiosks and shops. He can then call me with the 16 digit code listed on the voucher receipt and I can apply the funds to my prepay account. It's all completely anonymous.

[killianjamesnyc]

Hey Devon,

 

I'm very sorry that this happened to you, and rest assure, I know how it feels.

 

When asking a down payment of $25 there will be clients who respond that they don't know how to make that down payment and especially how to do it anonymously. Here are just two examples of how I did it a few times and maybe you had already thought of them.

 

If you have a prepaid phone (LOL, which you may not have) you can ask the client to top-up the balance. All the client needs to know is your mobile number and go to the nearest branch of your provider. An alternative is that the client buys you a prepaid gift card and sends you the details of the card by email. You can then use the card online. You don't have the actual card and a problem with prepaid gift cards (for you) is that it's not always easy to spend the last dollars on the card. However, if you do meet with the client, he could give you the card.

 

Use your fantasy and you'll probably be able to think of more ways how to accept anonymous payments.

 

I hope this adds to escorting being full fun again!

 

Sincerely, Anton.

 

 

Hey Anton,

 

I guess being in sales in another career taught me how to have a come back for pretty much anything. "If you go to paypal.com there are step by step instructions, takes less than 5 minutes 5 minutes of your time for endless hours of joy." "There's a very big difference between discretion and secrecy. Discretion is me knowing who you are but having the confidence in me that I'll keep our relationship a secret. Secrecy is being shadey". Or another one is " sir, I have no intention of telling your wife. If she divorces you she will take half your stuff plus demand alimony, and that's not good for either one of us"

 

Believe it or not, you'd be surprised how well this works Ive learned that the guy on the other end is more often than not very nervous, especially if married. The last one will have them cracking up.