Travel Advice in Europe

[TotallyOz]

There is a group of us that are going to Europe next summer. We will spend 4 days in London, 4 days in Amsterdam, 4 days in Prague and 4 days in Montreal for Gay Pride. We are all taking boys with us for the trip. That means we will all be coming from different locations and directions. It is fairly easy for us to get to London (first leg of the journey) and have the boys meet us there.

 

The question then becomes what is the best way to get from London to Amsterdam to Prague and then back to London for the travel back to the states?

 

I would love some advice from those of you who have traveled this area and can offer up some suggestions. We are not against a travel agent or booking on our own. There are at least 10 of us in total that are going (at this point and maybe more to come) and we may qualify for group rates when we travel once we are in London but will all get there from different cities in the states and in the US.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[firecat]

Hi Oz,

 

Eventhough you never answer my emails, I'll give you some good advice. LOL

 

http://www.openjet.com will get you the most reasonable fares for flights in Europe and this is the only way to travel.. Trains would take too long on a short trip like this.

 

Get back to me with some info on who is going. Maybe I'll attend.

 

Firecat

[Casteran]

Flying will be the quickest option, try http://www.easyjet.com. or if you know someone in London ask them to get airfares, better yet, wait until you arrive London to buy tickets along the way - usually good deals are gotten once in Europe. London-Amsterdam can be done via Eurostar via Brussels - takes about 8 hours or so total. http://www.raileurope.com can give you information. Amsterdam-Prague and Prague-London will be long hauls on the train, 14+ hours probably. Of course you could do overnight trains along some point, get a private compartment, and have "fun" with your companions....sex on a train...what a great fantasy

[Guest uklust]

The war between budget airlines and the scheduled carriers in Europe has produced some amazing bargain fares. EASYJET, RYANAIR, are the two major budget carriers, and offer amazing deals, but the airports they use are not always as close to the city centres as the ones used by the scheduled carriers. In London, both Luton and Stansted airports are much further from central London than Gatwick or Heathrow. The Scheduled carriers offer excellent advance booking deals- BRITISH AIRWAYS and BMI(British Midland)are fine, but if I were you I'd check out KLM, the Dutch carrier- who offer great prices- and you could do all links with them( London -Amsterdam, Amsterdam -Prague, then Prague-Amsterdam-Montreal). The other reason I'd go with them is to build up the frequent flyer game- when you a doing a lot of travelling this adds quickly- and will lead to "free" flights(usually a booking fee and the airport taxes only) which help.If you are already doing a lot of flying to get to Europe, BA, KLM and BMI are part of global partners, thus you can get all the travel to co-ordinate and add miles! Good Luck- Your trip will be short, but you'll have a great time!

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>Of course you could

>do overnight trains along some point, get a private

>compartment, and have "fun" with your companions....sex on a

>train...what a great fantasy

>

 

Hmmm... a twist -- Ten Big Indians, an 'everybody dun it' !! :+

[Guest]

Flying from London to Amsterdam will be many times cheaper, as well as faster, than the Eurostar. The Eurostar is actually quite expensive. There's little point in taking it unless you want the experience of going through the Chunnel. I'm not sure about airfares from Amsterdam to Prague. An overnight train could save you some time. Here's one possibility:

Detailed view

 

Station/Stop Date Time Platform Products Comments

Amsterdam Centraal 24.11.03 dep 20:27 5a

IC 643

InterCity

 

Bruxelles-Midi 24.11.03 arr 23:14

Bruxelles-Midi 24.11.03 dep 23:38

NZ 243

DB NachtZug

Subject to compulsory reservation, Bicycles conveyed - subject to reservation, Number of bicycles conveyed limited, Global price, Sleeping-car, Couchettes, seated coach, BordRestaurant

Berlin Ostbahnhof 25.11.03 arr 08:15 3

Berlin Ostbahnhof 25.11.03 dep 09:47 1

EC 173

EuroCity

Please reserve, International supplement, BordBistro

Praha-Holesovice 25.11.03 arr 14:47

[Guest Daddybottom]

how does it cost to hire an escort for 16 days?

 

Sounds like a great trip. From what you've written it will be about 16 days. I'm curious, how much does it cost to hire a boy for 16 days? I've seen rates for up to a weekend but never for such a long period.

[marc anthony]

RE: how does it cost to hire an escort for 16 days?

 

I'm curious, how much does it cost to hire

>a boy for 16 days? I've seen rates for up to a weekend but

>never for such a long period.

 

I have taken some of these long trips with boys... and here are my thoughts.

 

First of all, if you are going to be with someone for that long, you really MUST have some kind of pre-existing relationship, and it must be a good one. This would also mean that communication, honesty, and saying what you mean will be no problems for both of you.

 

Secondly, even if the escort has an inexpensive daily rate of 1000, there is no way anyone would assume he would get 16K for 16 days, especially if expenses are high, such as would be for a great trip to Europe.

 

On the flip side, the escort will be with you for SIXTEEN days. That is definitely something that he should be compensated for, not to mention the fact that there will be no other source of income for him during that time.

 

Put all of this together, and what you get is a nice candid conversation between two friends with a positive pre-existing business relationship. It has always worked out wonderfully for me.

[Karl-G]

You pose an interesting question. There are always several suggestions on this board about the "cheapest" fares' site. I have followed for a long time, and I would say from a lot of experience, there is no such thing. It all depends on when you book. You realize that everyone on a plane pays a different fare. I would suggest you firm up your itinerary and start looking. Fares change daily and often hourly. If you check every day for two or three weeks, you will find the cheapest fare, and you will probably do it on yahoo/travelocity.

 

For example, I just checked the two sources cited above. Easyjet does not fly to Prague, and openjet requires you to fly back from Amsterdam to London and then on to Prague, taking a lot of time. If you look on yahoo however, there is a price of $220 roundtrip Amsterdam-Prague and it takes only 1 hr. 25 minutes! That is less than the fare quoted on openjet. I don't know if the fare will be there again tomorrow, but it will be back within the next two or three weeks. You cannot go on-line at any particular time and assume that you can find a good fare, no matter where you look. Start early and you will certainly find a good fare.

 

How much do you travel? When you say that you want to spend four days in each of those cities, you leave no time to get from one to the other. Normally you will lose a day in traveling each time, no matter how you travel. By the time you get from hotel to airport, wait, fly, airport to hotel, a lot of time goes by. A suggestion made by someone else is a possible solution - take an overnight train. You save time and also a hotel expense - BUT you lose a night of sleep. If you really intend to enjoy each of those cities for a full four days, which I think is good, you should add one additional day for travel between each of the cities.

 

Personally, I guess, I would recommend the Eurostar train from London to Amsterdam. You go to Victoria Station, which is easy and quick, and not out to Stansted Airport or one of the other small ones. It is an interesting and pleasant experience to travel by high speed train, and it will drop you off at the main train station in Amsterdam, which is a very convenient place to come into.

 

If you can get a fare of $220 roundtrip Amsterdam to Prague, I would definitely grab it. There is no high speed train across that part of Europe. An hour and a half is an incredibly short period of time.

If you make reservations on Eurostar on-line and while you here in the States, it is much cheaper than if you buy the ticket a couple of days in advance in London.

 

If somehow, you could make contact with a travel agent in London, they might be able to do something good for you. But I do not know how to do that. If anyone on the board here has suggestions, I would also be interested in learning.

 

And certainly read as much in travel books as you can BEFORE you go. If you don't, you won't know what to look for or what you are looking at; you will waste time in Europe reading to know what to do and what to see. As you read, take notes for yourself about what you want to see and do. The more you do ahead of time (which is enjoyable in itself), the more you will enjoy your trip. And if you do this preparation, even by e-mail, with your petits amis, they will also enjoy the experience more. You will have many things in common to look forward to.

 

It sounds like it has great potential for enjoyment in many ways. Please let us know how it turns out.

[Karl-G]

I just checked the Eurostar page. It is only 2 hr 45 minutes from London to Brussels. Brussels-Amsterdam is a short run on a fast train; be sure and avoid the milk trains which make many stops. This would be far faster and easier than flying, and big discounts are given if you book on-line. You don't have to do round-trip on either train or plane, so you could train London-Amsterdam, plane Amsterdam Prague, and plane Prague-London.

 

When in Amsterdam in the summer, be sure and do the candlelight boat trip in the evening; this is with the glass-topped tour boats. It is a totally different experience from the day tour. Only candlelight, and cheese and wine are served, or you can book a dinner cruise. Cuddling with your boys as you glide through the canals of Amsterdam at night is great fun. Having a knowledgeable guide lead you through museums will make a world of difference, especially if your boys do not have a background in art. To skip the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh Museum wold be a terrible loss, but if you don't know what you are seeing, it is easy to become very bored quickly. With a group of you going, you could have a marvelous experience with many dishes at one of Reistafel restaurants from Indonesia. The more people you have, the more different dishes they will prepare. You need to book in advance. Be sure and choose an escort who is adventurous in terms of food; nothing would be more deadly than to have to eat at McDonalds only.

[Jared]

I've flown EasyJet from London to Amsterdam. It was really quite cheap and a good experience. The only challenge for me was getting to Luton airport which is about an hour train ride from London. Actually the train ticket was almost as much as the plane ticket.

 

I know Ryan Air flys from Stanstead (I believe) to Prague. I chose to take KLM airlines directly from Amsterdam to Prague for under $300 on Expedia. That seems to be a pretty standard rate. The flight is quick and easy.

 

Enjoy Prague...it's a beautiful place!

[+ Axiom2001]

Yes, Prague is a very beautiful place with lots of hunky, beautiful men, too!:9 I was in this part of the world prior to the split to the Czech Republic. Everywhere we went in this country-- there were fine, fine "bois" and "mens"! Do you all plan to have orgies or three or more ways since you're taking bois with you? I'm just curious!:9 :9 :* :* :9 :9

[Guest pyell]

First of all, look at a map before you travel. A train from Amsterdam to Prague via Brussels and Berlin starts by spending 3 hours going backwards, so it can't possibly be the quickest way to Prague.

 

Second, Ryanair in particular uses out of the way airports deceptively mis-labelled as being the airport for the big city. For example they use Frankfurt-Hahn, which sounds like New York-JFK or Chicago-O'Hare - until you realise that Hahn is actually 110km from Frankfurt and is not a Frankfurt regional airport at all. Ryanair is already in big trouble with the European Commission and the German consumer protection authorities over this practice, so be careful.

 

Third, European airports (and especially London Heathrow) are subject to massive delays as you move into winter. I went through Heathrow five times in January, for example, and spent ridiculous amounts of time circling Kent waiting for permission to land. On one occasion we arrived over England forty minutes early from Cairo - count them, forty minutes - and landed LATE at Heathrow. On another occasion we arrived over England thirty minutes early from Moscow - and landed on time. On another occasion Heathrow received a mere 1 inch of snow, which caused half the flights to be cancelled and the rest to be delayed by several hours each. I was due to meet my son flying into London that day from Australia, and he spent over 2 hours on the tarmac waiting for a gate to clear because of the snow. The Americans and Canadians in Terminal Four were livid, because an inch of snow wouldn't close any airport in North America for more than a few minutes.

 

Fourth, if your priority is cost, then you will probably want to explore Easyjet or Ryanair. But if your priority is to travel comfortably and actually see something of Europe other than clouds, you will avoid flying anything other than the long legs (eg Prague-London) and do the rest by train. It's the only way to travel. Immensely comfortable, fast, frequent (there's a train every hour across the whole of the German network, for example, and every thirty minutes to just about every major city in the Netherlands and Belgium), with dining facilities and sleepers on overnight trains - who in their right mind would want to waste that experience circling obscure airports and getting a good view of fluffy clouds? This is not midwestern Amtrak we are talking about, but some of the world's fastest and most comfortable trains.

[+ Charlie]

I would second a couple of points here. One is that travel takes time, and on a trip like this almost every transit is going to eat up the better part of a day, no matter what form you use. Given that, I would recommend taking the train from London to Amsterdam (note: the Eurostar leaves from Waterloo Station, not Victoria), because it is a more interesting trip; even though the scenery is relatively monotonous, it is at least somewhat exotic for someone who is seeing Europe for the first time. Be warned, though, that it can be more expensive than flying, especially if you try to reserve at the last minute (the last time I bought a one-way Eurostar ticket from Paris to London, it cost as much as my trans-Atlantic flight). Also, flights aren't the only things that suffer delays: I have sat on a stopped Eurostar for a couple of hours waiting for a problem to be cleared up in the Chunnel.

 

Take more than one canal boat ride in Amsterdam; different companies take different routes, and it's a good way to rest between long walks. Amsterdam is one of the best walking cities in Europe, but buy a transit pass so you can hop on and off the trams when you get tired or need to get someplace more quickly. If anyone in your party loves classical music, be sure to make one visit to a performance in the Grote Zaal at the Concertgebouw: it has the best acoustics of any concert hall I've ever been in anywhere in the world. On a rainy day--and you're bound to have one in Amsterdam--there are lots of smaller museums other than the big league art museums (Rijksmuzeum, Stedelijk, Van Gogh), such as the Anne Frank House, the new Jewish Museum, the cheesy sex museum and the hemp (marijuana) museum, and well as one of my favorites, the eclectic Tropenmuzeum.

 

Prague has changed so much since I lived there in the early 90s that I wouldn't try to give any advice, except that it's a long slog to get there by train.

[+ Charlie]

One more thing: 10 people together for 16 days is a recipe for an explosion. Break up regularly into smaller groups that go their separate ways, and everyone should periodically go off to explore entirely on his own--you experience a new place very differently by yourself than you do as part of a couple or a group.

[TotallyOz]

Yes you are right. It is often difficult traveling in groups. Our little group has been together in the past and has a knack of getting alone. We do things together and do things seperately. When you have a group of men that have similar interests and boys that get along together, you have a mix for a fun time. Plus, we are a pretty mellow group and each one is easy to get along with. So, this will not be our first trip together and hopefully not our last!

[TotallyOz]

Thank you all so much for all the comments and suggestions. As always, the men on this board has a depth of knowledge that always amazes me. Thank you all for the time spent in answering my questions. It was very helpful and I hope the suggestions keep flowing.

 

What we have discovered is that it may be cheaper to meet in Montreal and fly from there to London. Once in London, the prices from getting around to all the cities and back to London via plane is only around $400. This is much better than we expected and KLM offers good flight times that puts us in the cities in time for night-time fun on the first day!

[theDCeBOY]

i was in prague for last sylvestre. it was lovely. i'd advise flying though. oh, and NEVER, EVER fly or transact any business whatsoever with Malev (hungarian airline)!!!!!

 

enjoy the trip!

[Guest pyell]

You might explore one other option that is particularly valuable when we fly from Australia to Europe.

 

Instead of buying a ticket to your principal destination (eg London), buy a ticket to your furthest destination (eg Prague) with a stopover in your principal destination.

 

From Australia, most airlines offer the same fare to anywhere in Europe. Thus British Airways fares to London are the same as to Paris, Prague, Stockholm or Madrid, and it means you get the fare inside Europe effectively for free.

 

I don't know whether the airlines across the North Atlantic do the same thing, but it's worth finding out. On that basis a fare from, say, Montreal to Prague on KLM with a stopover in Amsterdam might well be cheaper than anything you can do using a fare to Amsterdam and a European add on to Prague. And if you use Amsterdam as your base, you can do a return trip to London on, say, Eurostar or easyJet, for a relatively small amount of money. Of course the same principle applies if you can find a cheap fare on British Airways or British Midland from North America to Prague with a stopover in London.

 

Worth looking into.

[Guest alanm]

Since you have all traveled together before and everything has worked out, this is a question rather than a suggestion.....

 

Why only 4 days in each city? As has been mentioned, one of those days will be partly taken up with travel. I have spent 4 days in London twice (as well as longer periods) and both times it seemed like too short a period. The same is true of Prague. I agree that 4 days each in Amsterdam and Montreal is fine. Forgive me for saying this, but the trip reminds me of the movie "If this is Tuesday, it must be Belgium." Was this a compromise, with everyone wanting to see different cities?

 

Have a great trip!

[TotallyOz]

thanks!

 

Yes, it was a bit of a compromise. One member of our group has time constraints and trying to work around everyone's schedule is hard to do.

 

But, it is also partly due to the boys we are traveling with. They want to see each city and if we get the flights to work out, they will get almost a full four days and nights in each city. It would be nice to spend say 5-6 in each city but, then we get closer to a month as opposed to a stretched out 2 weeks (16 days).

[+ Axiom2001]

...superb advice----Charlie!!

[TotallyOz]

I love 3 or more. And, yes that is part of the deal. I normally pick a boy and my escort will pick the next one. We normally have similar tastes but if not, it is always fun anyway.

[HooBoy]

I fly between Amsterdam & London on KLM out of Heathrow. It's a 45 minute flight, typically about 49 pounds round trip booked at klm.co.uk -- PLUS 49 pounds in taxes. I get 1000 miles credit for round-trips, mileage that is good on certain USA carrriers which I use.

 

I have found that booking more than 3 months in advance can be more expensive than waiting till during that time frame, except in very high seasons.