A Message To The Gentlemen Who Winge About Escorts Wanting Their Fee In Advance

[+ quoththeraven]

I do something like bdcjskm, as I explain at more length (and more incoherently) in this post, and I too have never had an escort open the envelope and count the money before the session began. But I remember a thread here awhile ago while I was still a lurker -- not important enough to go looking for it -- in which an escort contacted the client after the session and claimed he'd been shorted, by which time there was no way to confirm his claim. Since it's possible for bills, especially crisp ones, to stick together or be miscounted, this made me realize that asking the escort to check before the client leaves may be useful in preventing these kinds of disputes. I'm okay with the escort doing it openly, but it may be easier on everyone concerned if it's done more surreptitiously -- say, while the client is washing up or otherwise occupied before leaving.

[whipped guy]

post[/url], and I too have never had an escort open the envelope and count the money before the session began. But I remember a thread here awhile ago while I was still a lurker -- not important enough to go looking for it -- in which an escort contacted the client after the session and claimed he'd been shorted, by which time there was no way to confirm his claim. Since it's possible for bills, especially crisp ones, to stick together or be miscounted, this made me realize that asking the escort to check before the client leaves may be useful in preventing these kinds of disputes. I'm okay with the escort doing it openly, but it may be easier on everyone concerned if it's done more surreptitiously -- say, while the client is washing up or otherwise occupied before leaving.

I recall such a thread and I might have even posted in it. However, I was unable to locate it. At any rate, once I shorted a favorite escort a Ben Franklin. I always wear a pair of black leather wrist wallets to sessions. They serve two purposes... to carry the money in a safe manner, plus they look hot when doing an S&M scene. On this particular occasion, by special request from the escort, I played the S&M top and the escort the bottom. When I paid him at the conclusion of the session neither one of us had our glasses on and did not realize that one bill got stuck inside the wallet. The escort characteristically did not count anything in my presence. The next day after I had left town I sent him a nice thank you email jokingly saying that given the fact that since I had played the top and had worked him over that he should have paid me! He responded by asking if that was the reason that I did not give him the full amount. I was flabbergasted, but then looked inside the wrist wallet and there was the misplaced Ben Franklin. I was totally embarrassed... but still the escort never contacted me... and he had ample time to do so either that evening or the following morning as he knew that I would not be leaving town until later the next day. Long story short, we solved the problem with PayPal... and I wrote the guy a glowing review. Incredibly the guy was comfortable with me writing about the fact that he was capable of being the perfect S&M bottom. I even added a few inside joke references to what had happened regarding the payment. However, the review was carefully written so as to make certain that this particular session was a special situation for the escort and he would not he playing the whipping boy for any other clients... Plus the fact that he was shortchanged was cleverly disguised as well. The escort got a kick out of the review. To this day we are on excellent terms...

 

In any event, I now count more carefully when paying as I never want any such incident to ever occur again.

 

So "stuff" happens... and at times it is an innocent mistake.

[SteveEscort]

Steve, your client gives the rest of us hirers a bad name. ........You would be well within your right to inform your colleagues of his moniker in case they should be contacted by him.

 

Yes it does but it's one of those things. This post was never submitted by myself to cause trouble to clients, it was to make them think twice, it seems some clients are quite happy to carry on with their arrogant ways. I never once criticised them for their practice of paying at the end but even on this thread, it's quite apparent that they have very little regard for escorts and are not interested in the slightest in learning anything from my experience, even as much as to be sympathetic for what happened. Some posts on here have basically said it's not acceptable to shaft an escort but escorts should live with it, when it happens, whilst complaining that they've been the victim of it themselves. Being told I've got an attitude by someone who has posted twice on the board is really not the sort of compassion and understanding you expect from some folk, when trying to tell them about a bad experience you've had.

 

I did discuss the incident on my twitter account and a few local escorts contacted me privately for details, they themselves don't want to be ripped off either. I also suspect it was his plan to short change me before he had even clapped eyes on me.

[SteveEscort]

.....and I too have never had an escort open the envelope and count the money before the session began.

 

That's exactly how an executive class escort should conduct themselves. It's how I conduct myself.

[SteveEscort]

... but still the escort never contacted me... and he had ample time to do so either that evening or the following morning as he knew that I would not be leaving town until later the next day.

 

Most wouldn't because you couldn't prove anything anyway and if it was a really good appointment, he would surely have liked to see you again and so if he had brought up the subject and he was wrong, it might have put a dampner on future arrangements and neither of you would want to start off a subsequent appointment counting out the money correctly, it's just wrong.

[whipped guy]

Most wouldn't because you couldn't prove anything anyway and if it was a really good appointment, he would surely have liked to see you again and so if he had brought up the subject and he was wrong, it might have put a dampner on future arrangements and neither of you would want to start off a subsequent appointment counting out the money correctly, it's just wrong.

Steve, of course you are right about that. It's just that I felt so awful about the situation when I realized what happened and the guy was staying only a few blocks away from my hotel. I would have run right back over right then and there.

 

Yet, I have had clients short change me in my business and they were quite happy to do so. In one case, my assistant inadvertently gave the customer too much change back. I overheard the wife telling the husband so in Italian... as they did not realize that I understood the language. They gladly exited the premises with smiles on their faces even knowing that with my small operation it would not be difficult to figure out the loss. Still, running out the door to chase after them did not seem like the prudent thing to do...

[+ Funguy]

In any event, I now count more carefully when paying as I never want any such incident to ever occur again.

 

So "stuff" happens... and at times it is an innocent mistake.

 

Plus you now wear your glasses.

[whipped guy]

Plus you now wear your glasses.

Definitely, as the eyesite has unfortunately gone downhill in the past year... So most definitely when playing the top for the safety of the bottom when wielding a flogger. Though they can be a hindrance when things get a bit animated... Actually, long story, they flew off my face a few weeks ago at the Bondage Club in NYC... and for a while I was totally clueless... and especially because it is so dark in the venue. Fortunately they safely landed on a bench and nobody sat on them. So tragedy averted. I see the ophthamologist in a couple of weeks by the way.

[MiamiLooker]

Rather than asking for payment up front, it seems to me you could be asking any new clients to have the payment in plain sight when you arrive (or, if an incall, ask that they place it in sight when they arrive). It doesn’t mean you may not get shorted, but since it gives you an opportunity to count it before the session, the chances of getting shorted might be decreased. Your request to have clients change their attitude about paying up front may be falling on deaf ears. You’re not going to find too many clients that have had good experiences when they’ve paid up front.

[SteveEscort]

Yes but if they would just be tolerant of it, that would be a start. There an underlying attitude on here that escorts asking for money up front are trash and hustlers. They're not, some are, but some who get paid at the end could be trash and hustlers. I would just like guys who view "up front" escorts that way, to stop compartmentalising these guys into one box.

 

I completely understand why some guys have real problems paying up front but they have an don't care less attitude when I've tried to explain why an escort may have asked for funds up front and that's understandably because they have been ripped off in the past.

 

I won't travel anywhere in the UK or Europe to see a new client without a deposit to at least cover my train or plane fare. It's been mentioned already on this post by one person that a deposit is even out of the question. A train from my home to London, return is about £140 ($240) and it's about the same if I fly. Why should I take the risk to get to London and have a client flake on me or underpay me. As soon as I mention I require a deposit, the call goes cold. Yet all of my genuine guys have no problem paying for my transport, however I never ask for advance deposits with regulars unless it's a flight that costs a lot of money, then I usually ask him to book it on his card and I provide all of my personal details as a mark of trust. It has never proved to be a problem. Nine times out of ten they offer to pay for the flight or train tickets anyway.

[tom1980]

I'm among the guys who refuse to pay up front. I understand what you are saying, Steve. I've always recognized that there are legitimate reasons for an escort to ask for the money up front, which is why I didn't object to paying at the beginning when I first started hiring several years ago.

 

Over the last several years, I've hired dozens of guys for 1-2 hour appointments (I haven't counted, but the number is probably over 100). Of those, I can remember 6 men asking for the money up front. I was dissatisfied with every one of those appointments. Two of the guys were outright scams (one left the hotel room to "get lube and condoms from his car" and never returned; the other was supposed to provide erotic massage but admitted to me a few minutes in that he just pokes guys as hard as he can to hurt them until they tell him to stop, at which point he takes the position that they chose to end the appointment so he doesn't have to give them back any money). The most recent time this happened (about a year and a half ago), the escort got annoyed when I didn't cum within the first 15 minutes of the appointment (about 3 minutes into a below average hand job) and told me, "I'm finished trying to help you out." The other three were similar to the most recent experience in that I did not receive the services desired. None of these 6 guys looked like obvious scam artists; if they had, I would have ended the appointments before they began.

 

The fact that I refuse to pay up front has nothing to do with whether escorts have legitimate reasons for requesting the money up front. I've always realized that they have valid concerns about getting ripped off by clients. I also agree with you that there could exist truly amazing escorts who demand payment at the beginning of every session. However, in my experience, those guys are harder to find than a live jackalope.

 

I know it's purely anecdotal and my experience is limited (although, I think I've hired enough different guys from enough different websites in enough different cities to have a fair basis for my conclusion), but I have decided that I will no longer pay new escorts I meet at the beginning of a session. One of these days, a metaphorical jackalope may open the door and invite me into his hotel room. I know that I might miss out on the experience of a lifetime, but when he asks me to give him the money up front, I intend to decline, tell him that we apparently are not a good fit, and wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors. My decision isn't based on whether the escort has a good reason for wanting to be paid up front. It's based on the fact that I no longer believe in jackalopes (at least I don't think I'll ever meet one personally).

[SteveEscort]

That's fair enough, as I have said time and time again, I don't ask for the money up front, I just don't like the Client Is King attitude or the like it or lump it way I've been talked to over it. I think it's disgraceful that there are guys out there who think it's acceptable to rip someone off. Can I just ask though, if his service was substandard and he took payment at the end, would you still pay him the full payment if he was respectful enough to wait until the end because I can't believe that the other 94 were all a sexual adonis, many will have been but not all would have been 110% perfect because they didn't request fund up front. That's something I wouldn't mind exploring.

 

I remember about a year or so back a guy tried to get a cheaper rate at the end and did pay me the correct fee in the end but said "The only thing I was a little disappointed in Steve was the fact you didn't do rimming on me". My website, my initial phone chat and any emails or texts will clearly state that I will only perform rimming on a client if he has a shower in my presence. It really is my only rule. I did point this out at the end and I also said, "Thing is, I have a fair idea of what guys want but if you don't tell me, I don't know and I would have been happy to perform it, if we could have had a shower together at some point during the encounter". Escorts are not mind readers.

[wisconsinguy]

Steve, I am not an expert on multiple hires and paying fees. I spent months deciding on a first hire. I made the fortunate decision, and have stayed with him. But, I do remember quite well my first experience. It's well embedded in my memory. Along with that decision, was the question of when to reimburse. I made the decision to reimburse at the beginning of our extended appointment. I have never regretted the decision. I believe it showed my commitment since he knew little about me, and the little he knew was negative. I believe an escort can end up at the short end in these situations more so that clients. Simply put, what happened to you puts clients in a not so light. I respect the escorts choice of the profession. Like it goes, treat everyone as we would like to be treated.

[tom1980]

Can I just ask though, if his service was substandard and he took payment at the end, would you still pay him the full payment if he was respectful enough to wait until the end because I can't believe that the other 94 were all a sexual adonis, many will have been but not all would have been 110% perfect because they didn't request fund up front. That's something I wouldn't mind exploring.

 

I do generally pay the full amount of the agreed fee at the end of a session even if I'm not completely satisfied with the service. Sometimes being less than satisfied is my fault (for example, if I don't communicate all of my expectations/preferences, as in the example of rimming noted in your post). Sometimes it's the escort's fault (for example, if he is unable to top but knew that's what I expected). Sometimes it's no one's fault (willingness on both sides, but lack of chemistry).

 

When it's my fault or nobody's fault, I always pay the full fee. When it's the escort's fault, I pay the full fee unless he offers a discount for being unable to perform a desired service (sometimes I accept the discount, and sometimes I pay the full amount while thanking him for the offer) or there are extraordinary circumstances (which I think has only happened twice; I'll reserve those stories for a worst escort experiences thread).

[Daverwr]

I do generally pay the full amount of the agreed fee at the end of a session even if I'm not completely satisfied with the service. Sometimes being less than satisfied is my fault (for example, if I don't communicate all of my expectations/preferences, as in the example of rimming noted in your post). Sometimes it's the escort's fault (for example, if he is unable to top but knew that's what I expected). Sometimes it's no one's fault (willingness on both sides, but lack of chemistry).

 

When it's my fault or nobody's fault, I always pay the full fee. When it's the escort's fault, I pay the full fee unless he offers a discount for being unable to perform a desired service (sometimes I accept the discount, and sometimes I pay the full amount while thanking him for the offer) or there are extraordinary circumstances (which I think has only happened twice; I'll reserve those stories for a worst escort experiences thread).

 

I have to agree. I will always pay the full amount unless a discount is offered due to lack of performance. First of all, I hate confrontation. But, more importantly, I always think that I wouldn't go to a restaurant and say, "I'm only paying for half of the check because I didn't really care for the chicken piccata."

 

As for paying upfront - I will if I'm asked. But, I'm part of the crowd that leaves the fee in an obvious place usually in an envelope, unless I can't find one!

[MiamiLooker]

As for paying upfront - I will if I'm asked. But, I'm part of the crowd that leaves the fee in an obvious place usually in an envelope, unless I can't find one!

 

Does it make a difference when the asking takes place? If an escort indicates in his ad or in his communication with the client prior to the appointment that he expects payment up front, that’s acceptable. If an escort springs it on the client at the beginning of the appointment, that’s kind of shady.

[SteveEscort]

Does it make a difference when the asking takes place? If an escort indicates in his ad or in his communication with the client prior to the appointment that he expects payment up front, that’s acceptable. If an escort springs it on the client at the beginning of the appointment, that’s kind of shady.

 

I do sometimes ask for it upfront, especially if he's a Cockney Wideboy type or so young it's obvious he's been saving up the money from his Saturday job and usually only when I think they, themselves look shady.

 

Because it's rare for me ask for the fee up front, the only thing I state on my website is

 

Don't be embarrassed to hand over my fee. I am quite happy to receive it in an envelope, placed on a table or desk if you feel it's more appropriate.

 

I think that's a sensible enough statement.

 

In my "boudoir" so to speak I have a small little wicker basket (like a bread basket) and it's right next to where I invite them to get undressed to have a shower. If they say anything about the fee, I usually just say "We can leave it until the end or you can just leave it on the little wicker basket thing". Even at the end of the appointment, many men don't like to physically hand it over, they like to leave it somewhere on the side.

[SteveEscort]

Steve, I am not an expert on multiple hires and paying fees. I spent months deciding on a first hire. I made the fortunate decision, and have stayed with him. But, I do remember quite well my first experience. It's well embedded in my memory. Along with that decision, was the question of when to reimburse. I made the decision to reimburse at the beginning of our extended appointment. I have never regretted the decision. I believe it showed my commitment since he knew little about me, and the little he knew was negative. I believe an escort can end up at the short end in these situations more so that clients. Simply put, what happened to you puts clients in a not so light. I respect the escorts choice of the profession. Like it goes, treat everyone as we would like to be treated.

 

That's good. It's good to see that not everyone is of the same mindset

[down_to_business]

I am sorry to hear you were ripped off, it sucks. I have been ripped off by more than one escort when advancing a fee or deposit, enough times that I would never do it again. I hope you also realize that not every escort has your morals, ethics or reliability and wonder if you are going to feel a little bit bad when some unsuspecting client out there pays it upfront to an escort that isn't as honorable as you, and gets ripped off-- and the only reason they went against everything they were warned about doing- was because of reading your story and the terrible treatment you received.

[SteveEscort]

I have sympathised with everyone who has been ripped off, but the attitude on here with some people is that they couldn't give a flying f**k and only hustlers ask for it up front. An attitude that even surprises many clients.

 

I have never ripped off a client, nor would I intend to and it would be stalemate if I asked you for a deposit to travel 200 miles and you refused, you'd be the one to lose out, not me. I'd lose the appointment yes but I wouldn't lose the lot and have it cost me 100 quid if you flaked out after refusing to pay a deposit. It's only fair that if a client is asking an escort to travel a considerable distance (and I count that as as anything over an hours drive) then he should offer to pay a deposit, after all, he's requesting the service from someone who don't know him. I get it all the time and it stinks. "I'm not paying no deposit...mate" they'll say........... Well I'll just stay home and see local guys then.

[imrthr]

 

snip snip

 

Those of you with the attitude of "I wouldn't pay up front" have you considered how many things in your day to day life you do pay up front for and don't come back to me with the nonsense that you don't pay for anything up front because over half the services you're provided with in your day to day life will be advance payment... Mobile phones, hotel reservations, theatre and pop concert tickets. All stuff you outlay with the promise of service but when it comes to a personal human service, you're suddenly uptight and offended by being asked up front.

-

 

Facts and circumstances!

 

You mentioned a few items where one might pay in advance - “Mobile phones, hotel reservations, theatre and pop concert tickets.”

 

You are comparing well-known products that come with recourse compared to a service from an unknown escort where there is no recourse. To make such an analogy is without merit.

 

For example, when we prepay our phone bill, our hotel bill or purchase a theater or concert ticket, we have recourse if the company sponsoring the event does not deliver.

 

In the case of an escort demanding money in advance, please tell me where the recourse is?

 

I have heard so many stories where clients pay in advance only to be told, after the payment was made, that the money paid was for “time only” and anything else “is extra” but no refund is given after the money is exchanged.

 

Combining the above described dishonest behavior of some escorts with fake photos in countless ads, do you really think it is inappropriate for clients to withhold payment until after the service has been rendered?

-

[SteveEscort]

I've never said it was inappropriate, I said don't like the attitude that seems to cloud this forum....and only this forum where anyone asking for monies up front is basically a hustler.

 

As I've said a dozen times already, I don't ask for money up front. I never have done unless I think the client is a little strange when he arrives. I will ask for a deposit up front if he wants me to travel 200 miles, but I wouldn't ask someone I had see before to pay me in advance because I know and trust them. Why can't any of you listen to that !!!!!!!

 

If you're going to use that argument then please use it appropriately against this statement too

 

Steve, I am a tax accountant and I bill after services are rendered. I have gotten cheated in the past and I will get cheated in the future. Does it piss me off, sure but I have no choice but to get over it. And, yes, it is never my low income clients but my high income clients who don't see a problem with paying six months after the fact if at all.

 

And I, being a nice guy, have been screwed over by "escorts". So you can keep your attitude.

 

This gentleman compared it to his job where he has recourse should someone withhold payment from him, he could chase them for outstanding debts through the courts, something an escort can't do.

 

If you're going to apply your analogy to one set of circumstances, please apply to it the whole picture

[imrthr]

 

I've never said it was inappropriate, I said don't like the attitude that seems to cloud this forum....and only this forum where anyone asking for monies up front is basically a hustler.

 

As I've said a dozen times already, I don't ask for money up front. I never have done unless I think the client is a little strange when he arrives. I will ask for a deposit up front if he wants me to travel 200 miles, but I wouldn't ask someone I had see before to pay me in advance because I know and trust them. Why can't any of you listen to that !!!!!!!

 

If you're going to use that argument then please use it appropriately against this statement too

 

 

 

This gentleman compared it to his job where he has recourse should someone withhold payment from him, he could chase them for outstanding debts through the courts, something an escort can't do.

 

If you're going to apply your analogy to one set of circumstances, please apply to it the whole picture

 

 

Some people cannot see the forest because the trees obscure the view.

-

[SteveEscort]

I rest my case

[Bargara Leatherboy]

Its one of those things.

 

Personally I think it is less that acceptable that a quality escort provided the service and got shorted less than the full fee. If the client could not cum that is his problem. I do not hire to cum, I hire for the whole experience. I can make myself cum very easily.

 

I have had the experience of paying up front and getting less than expected, I've had the situation of paying upfront and getting exactly what I requested, and I have paid afterwards and had an extended session, nearly double the time because we were having a great time together. That particular hire states on his website that a normal hire is about 2 hours, well it was relaxed, we chatted had a drink - we got into the action - we took a break, he had a shower, lay on the bed in a robe - then we got into some action. The whole time his fee was in an envelope on the desk, but I did hand it to him just before he left.

 

I have also had the experience where I have paid for an hour got half, and still paid the full amount, I could not imagine arguing over the fee, but I would never rehire, and I would always write a poor review, and have done.

 

There is something in the way you communicate before hand, that sets the tone, or it does for me, some hires I do not make a time with cos I get the feeling that its not going to work, others you feel totally comfortable with.

 

People need to be honest and respectful in all they do, and shorting a business person on a job well done is not respectful.