Getting Pounded by Kobe

[VaHawk]

RE: Straight contempt

 

"Yeah? Mine is to live to see the day when gay men seldom if ever behave in a manner that justifies the contempt the straight world feels for us."

 

IMO contempt for others based on their hehavior, sexual orientation, nationality, religion or any other reason is contemptible in itself. I would hate to see a world where one has to deny who he is just to gain the approval of the majority.

 

Why do you feel that the rest of the posters on this board, don't know what str8ts say about gay people? I'd bet we have all heard it, and most of us have suffered discrimination and even violence just because we are gay.

 

I realize that being gay in a small rural area of the US is different than being gay in a large city such as NYC, LA, SF, etc., but if people don't speak up for themselves things will not change in those areas. I'm sure it is a lot more dangerous physically, employment-wise, etc. to acknowledge one's gayness in such areas, but imo, to do otherwise would be to live one's life as a lie, hiding in shadows. I also feel it is easy for people in NYC, etc. to advocate openness because they would not have to deal with that violence, etc.

[Trixie]

RE: Straight contempt

 

Hear, hear, VaHawk!

Indeed, should certain straights feel safe sharing their views on homosexuality only when they feel that they are "among friends," then they are cowards, and only sharing their ignorance. They've not left behind the high-school mentality of "us vs. them" and still need desparately to know that they're part of the in crowd.

Unfortunately, many gay people are no better. It's funny how some folk can rally against discrimination out one side of their mouth, and cast aspersions out the other. I can't begin to count the gay men I've known who have made casual slurs against african-americans, asian-americans, latinos, lesbians etc. etc. whilst chatting with me, just assuming I'd agree, being white, or male, or whatever.

You'd think that we'd have learned some lesson about tolerance through our own sufferings, but apparently not.

Ignorance is not unique to the heterosexual community, Woodlawn, nor is it the Truth merely becase it seems so prevalent. It's just the small pond we float our minds in until we're fit for the larger seas to sail. It takes an active mind, and a strong heart to continually combat the fear and laziness inherent in prejudice and hatred. Don't let the fearful hearts and lazy minds of others get the better of you.

Trixie

[Guest fukamarine]

>Why don't you make a copy of this thread and email it to Pat

>Robertson? I understand he's always looking for evidence to

>support negative stereotypes of gay men. You and the first

>two posters in this thread have provided plenty.

 

Once again you have proved that you have absolutely no sense of humour at all - none - nil - zilch!

 

How depressing your world must be.

 

fukamarine

[Guest Jocoluver]

Hey, my fantasy wasn't of being raped by Kobe!! I was more than willing to be his bitch/slut/nympho/whore!!! (I saw him once live and not in a bb game. OMG!!) and whatever happened to presumption of innocence until proven guilty? well, we know the answer to that: I hope we make to Nov.2004! :7

[woodlawn]

>Yeah - the great benefits of living your life hiding and

>ashamed - you get to hear what "straight people say when they

>think there are no gays around." What a fucking treat.

>Definitely worth it to stay hidden and embarrassed about what

>you are.

 

You have never known and will never know anything about the way I live my life. Reading your uninformed speculation about it is like watching someone take a Rohrschach test. What you have to say reveals plenty about the contents of your head, but nothing about the person who created the test cards.

 

 

>Who gives a fuck what "straight people think" -

 

Anyone who wants them to support same-sex marriage, gay adoption and other civil rights for gay men and women. Because without their support those things won't happen. I do understand that these issues may not be priorities for people whose primary relationships are with hookers. But for normal human beings they're pretty important.

 

 

>And it's beyond sad that you

>think it's something to boast about

 

We all have things that make us sad, Doug. I would think it sad that you have no real existence other than screaming insults at strangers on an internet message board -- if I gave a shit about you, that is.

 

 

>Ever hear straight guys talk about pussy before?

 

 

I hear it constantly. But many black Americans have long since realized that the fact most poor people in this country are white and the fact most children born out of wedlock in this country are white does not help them in combatting negative stereotypes about their race. Some of us are bright enough to understand how that principle relates to other groups. Not you, apparently.

 

>Do you walk around with a lace shirt with a flowery collar

>buttoned up to the top button?

 

Why do you ask? Has someone been raiding your wardrobe?

 

>I mean, this is a fucking

>escort forum where guys come to talk about what gets them off.

> So this guy has a rape fantasy. Big fucking deal.

 

If you think it's a trivial matter why are you wasting your time creating a long post about it?

 

 

>You acknowledge that straight people have rape fantasies, and

>that it's quite common. Why are they better - because they

>hide it and are ashamed to talk about it, whereas some people

>here aren't ashamed of their fantasies? That justifies

>gassing gay people and putting them in camps and doing

>everything else that Pat Robertson would like to do? Are you

>fucking insane?

 

I'm not insane Doug. And even a filthy, rotten hatemonger like you who lacks the ability to engage in a conversation about any issue without getting into the kind of red-faced, gape-mouthed fury that has become your trademark here should be able to understand the attitude that is conveyed by making jokes about having a relationship with a rape suspect. You have not moved so far away from the mainstream of the society in which you live that you can no longer understand that, have you?

 

 

>You have such a desperate need to be liked and accepted

 

Here we go again with the amateur psychoanalysis by someone who is not even qualified to diagnose a hangnail. You never have and never will know anything about my emotional needs, Doug, because I do not choose to share such information with creatures like you. Why would I?

[woodlawn]

>Oh, you're in the closet; I never knew that before. That's

>interesting that you criticize the behavior of out gay men

>when you aren't out yourself. Also, it's presumptuous to

>assume that the homophobes you hang out with represent all

>heterosexuals (and, some of them are probably gay anyway).

 

You don't know anything about the way I live, Rick, and that is never, ever going to change. Suffice it to say that unlike some on this board, I DON'T live in a tiny subculture whose habits and values are a reversed, mirror-image version of the society in which we all exist. But like many gay men I DO have to deal with the burden that the behavior of that subculture imposes on the rest of us.

 

>I don't think that's a gay trait. I bet there are lots of

>women who'd love to get banged by Kobe.

 

There are probably very few men I've encountered who know less about what straight women want than you, Rick.

 

>Bad theory. Maybe that was true in 1998 but "the straight

>world" has moved in and taken over. And your logic is

>illogical anyway.

 

You don't live in the straight world, Rick. I'm not sure you even have a visitor's visa.

 

>Honey, this is America

 

No, Rick, "this" isn't America. It would not be easy to find a place less typical of America than this board. Isn't that why you're here?

[woodlawn]

>Once again you have proved that you have absolutely no sense

>of humour at all - none - nil - zilch!

 

When it comes to rape? None whatsoever.

 

>How depressing your world must be.

 

This is coming from someone whose biggest thrill in recent weeks was to see Stephen Dorff's undershorts riding above the waistband of his trousers for ten minutes on a movie screen. How barren does one's life have to be in order to make that the only noteworthy event in it? I can hardly imagine.

[woodlawn]

>Sad but true. Even at a large, fairly progressive

>multi-national corporation with many rules against such

>behavior, it is amazing what people (mostly men) will say when

>they think it is safe.

 

Yes. And isn't it amazing how little some gay men know about the straight world? They remind me of immigrants who spend all their time in urban neighborhoods where the language of 'the old country' is still spoken and they hardly need to hear or speak a word of English from morning to night.

 

 

>I think we’ve had this conversation before, but I haven’t

>changed my mind. Why should we care about the acceptance of

>all (or even most) straight people? I demand to be

>tolerated…I demand my rights…but I really don’t care if they

>invite me over for dinner.

 

If you are content to live without the same basic civil rights enjoyed by straight people, then I suppose there is no reason for you to care how they feel about gays. If you want to enjoy those rights, on the other hand, you will have to deal with their feelings. It's one or the other.

 

By the way, have you realized who is going to be appointing all of the judges in your state for the next three years?

 

 

 

>

[Guest fukamarine]

>This is coming from someone whose biggest thrill in recent

>weeks was to see Stephen Dorff's undershorts riding above the

>waistband of his trousers for ten minutes on a movie screen.

>How barren does one's life have to be in order to make that

>the only noteworthy event in it? I can hardly imagine.

 

Actually, that wasn't my BIGGEST thrill. However I do admit that it was a thrill.

 

My BIGGEST thrill was, and is, reading what you consider to be your pithy retorts on this message board! Oh what command of the English language you do have..... and as for the intellectual thought that goes into them......... well that gives me a thrill that word's alone can't adequately express.

 

fukamarine

>

>

[Guest fukamarine]

>Well fukamarine you are definitely a slut and most of all you

>are an "ignorant slut"!

 

Oh GOD how that hurts!

 

Explain your rationale in denigrating

>Arnie for his groping but extolling Kobe for forcefully

>fucking a woman against her will after she has said that she

>doesn't want to do it.

 

Did I really denigrate him? Not that I recall. But then again, I'm so unstable that anything's possible.

 

>Good luck on getting Kobe to fuck you! Give him about 2

>years behind bars with no women in sight and he might be

>desperate enough to fuck your tired assed "man pussy", but I

>doubt it as in reality you would probably have to wait at

>least 10 years.

 

Now that's what I call a really supurb retort. Shows great command of the English language. I'm actually going to submit your name for a Pulitzer.

 

And he just might be willing to fuck me without waiting ten years. My "man pussy" as you so charmingly put it, is looking much nicer after all my botox injections.

 

Today is our Canadian Thanksgiving. Your kind support has just given me one more thing to give thanks for. Thank God I only have to read your drivel on a message board. Sure beats having to look at you while you spew forth.

 

fukamarine

 

 

fukamarine

[woodlawn]

>Actually, that wasn't my BIGGEST thrill. However I do admit

>that it was a thrill.

 

Sorry to hear it. I had hoped I was exaggerating.

 

>My BIGGEST thrill was, and is, reading what you consider to be

>your pithy retorts on this message board! Oh what command of

>the English language you do have..... and as for the

>intellectual thought that goes into them......... well that

>gives me a thrill that word's alone can't adequately express.

 

If you behave yourself I will give you the name of one of Dorff's earlier films in which he appeared (gasp!) naked. I have withheld this information up to now out of fear that the excitement might give you a heart attack.

[Rick Munroe]

>You don't know anything about the way I live, Rick, and that

>is never, ever going to change.

 

Is that a promise?

 

>I DON'T live in a tiny subculture

 

OK, so it must be a big walk-in closet. :+

[woodlawn]

>>You don't know anything about the way I live, Rick, and

>that

>>is never, ever going to change.

 

>Is that a promise?

 

Well, let's say I would be as likely to confide in you as I would be to invite Jeffrey Dahmer to my place for supper. Does that about cover it?

 

 

>OK, so it must be a big walk-in closet.

 

I guess it depends on your point of view. From my point of view, you and the other gay ghetto types are the ones who live in a small, confined space, culturally speaking. Such places seem inhabited by those gay men who can't deal unless they're surrounded by people who are just like themselves.

[trilingual]

>Yeah? Mine is to live to see the day when gay men seldom if

>ever behave in a manner that justifies the contempt the

>straight world feels for us.

>

Well, if that's your goal in life you might take a step towards it by staying off this board. Because I can guarantee you that your participation here is definitely the kind of thing the straight world would NOT like about you!

 

Not only would staying off M4M save you from the opprobrium of the straight world, it would also save the rest of us from having to deal with your own self-hatred, which is bad enough directed at yourself but even more distasteful when directed at other people here who have gotten over it eons ago!

 

So, toodle-oo, and give our very best to the straight world! We won't tell them where you've been hanging out, so you can hold your head up when you see them! }(

[phage]

>If you are content to live without the same basic civil rights

>enjoyed by straight people, then I suppose there is no reason

>for you to care how they feel about gays. If you want to

>enjoy those rights, on the other hand, you will have to deal

>with their feelings. It's one or the other.

 

I don’t think it is nearly that black-and-white. California just enacted a domestic partnership law that is a major step towards equal marriage rights. This was done with just a majority of progressives in the legislature and obviously did not require the support of the Pat Robertson types. Forget the religious right and the people that are always going to hate us. They are a lost cause.

 

I do not believe that we have to kowtow to the entire straight world and win over Joe-Six-Pack in order to secure our rights. We just need a solid core of support in the legislatures and judiciary. Maybe I’m naïve but I think our odds are good with this better educated and hopefully more enlightened group of people. Many of them will do the right thing even if they don’t personally like the group of people in question.

 

I know that California is atypical in the same way that major cities don’t represent the attitude in middle America, but if we can make progress one state at a time, it is just a matter of time before some kind of Federal legislation that will bring the redneck states in line.

 

>By the way, have you realized who is going to be appointing

>all of the judges in your state for the next three years?

 

I am painfully aware of it. I have already resigned myself to hanging my head in shame every time the subject comes up. I’m clinging to hope that Arnie won’t be the flop that I think he will be and I can be proud of the California that enacted the type of legislation above. Considering his relatively progressive beliefs, why would I be overly concerned about that anyway? I wasn’t aware that leaders making these kind of appointments looked for judges who shared their conservative fiscal policy beliefs.

[woodlawn]

>>Yeah? Mine is to live to see the day when gay men seldom

>if

>>ever behave in a manner that justifies the contempt the

>>straight world feels for us.

 

 

>Well, if that's your goal in life you might take a step

>towards it by staying off this board.

 

That's a very good point, although I am not sure it's the point you intended to make.

 

>Because I can guarantee

>you that your participation here is definitely the kind of

>thing the straight world would NOT like about you!

 

You think straight people wouldn't like the idea of fat old men like you going to third world countries so that they can hire needy young guys for sex at cheap rates? You just might be right about that. In fact -- and I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock -- there just might be a significant number of GAY men who wouldn't approve of it either. There just might be.

 

>Not only would staying off M4M save you from the opprobrium of

>the straight world, it would also save the rest of us from

>having to deal with your own self-hatred, which is bad enough

>directed at yourself but even more distasteful when directed

>at other people here who have gotten over it eons ago!

 

I just love the way you creeps define as "self-hating" any gay man who happens to disagree with you about what is in the best interest of the gay community. It's the gay version of the "acting white" accusation thrown at African Americans who protest against the violent and misogynistic culture of rap. And it reflects exactly the same sort of mentality.

 

 

>So, toodle-oo, and give our very best to the straight world!

>We won't tell them where you've been hanging out,

 

Thanks for nothing. You won't tell them for the same reason you don't tell the other people in your life about YOUR involvement. The moment you feel you don't need to hide what YOU do from the straight world, you can start using your real name rather than a fake name on this message board. Until then, you, Rick and the other self-righteous types will continue to conceal your activities under false names and anonymous email addresses while accusing me of "self-hatred" for doing the same. I won't hold my breath waiting for you lot to come clean.

[Guest alanm]

Woodlawn:

 

You have been making some very good points about the OP's obsession with Kobe, until the Jeffrey Dahmer comment. It's fine to want to have sex with Bryant, I would like it myself, but to link that with a possible rape victim is horrific. I have the luxury to live a life outside the closet; many others can not have that. It's good to have a dialogue on that subject. But the Dahmer comment is totally out of line to Rick or anyone else on this site.

[duke37]

>If you want to enjoy those rights, on the other hand, you will have to >deal with their feelings.

 

If we have to cower at the views of the straight world for any offhand tasteless comment or joke what have we really gained? Is it really worth it to gain civil partnerships when we have to censor ourselves to gain it?

 

Jeff

[Rick Munroe]

>you and the other gay ghetto types are the ones who live

>in a small, confined space, culturally speaking.

 

I don't know about the other "gay ghetto types," but I prefer the catchier acronym "GGT" over the full spelled-out version. It's kind of like OPP and bein' on the DL. Got it, dawg? I'm a GGT. ;-)

 

>Such places

>seem inhabited by those gay men who can't deal unless they're

>surrounded by people who are just like themselves.

 

As opposed to you, who apparently surround yourself with people who are just like what you pretend to be. :+ (Most of my friends are actually straight, btw.) For the record, I have many closeted clients and I also have a few closeted friends and I totally respect their decisions to live their lives as they choose. And sometimes I encourage and help them to come out, if they're open to it. However, as for you: now that the board knows you're in the closet, your posts ripping apart "out" gay men have even less credibility. IMNSHO, you probably shouldn't have revealed that little tidbit! As they say on Queer Eye, remember: less is more. :*

[Trixie]

RE:Curmudgeon Extraordinaire

 

Shriek!!! You go to it, Ms. Lawn!!!

Trix

[trilingual]

>That's a very good point, although I am not sure it's the

>point you intended to make.

 

That's EXACTLY the point I intended to make! Bingo! You got it!

 

>You think straight people wouldn't like the idea of fat old

>men like you

 

Is anyone here familiar with the old expression about "the pot calling the kettle black?"

 

>going to third world countries so that they can

>hire needy young guys for sex at cheap rates?

 

Oh. You mean it's OK with straight America if I hire fucked-up, over-priced young men in the first world? In a country where such an activity is ILLEGAL in all but one state? As opposed to a country like Brazil where such activity is both legal, tolerated and widely known? (Brazil is a country where having posed nude in a magazine or even having spent part of one's youth selling oneself doesn't automatically foreclose someone from ever participating in decent society or moving ahead in life.) Exactly what part of "straight society" is it you're supposedly in touch with?

 

>You just might

>be right about that. In fact -- and I hope this doesn't come

>as too much of a shock -- there just might be a significant

>number of GAY men who wouldn't approve of it either. There

>just might be.

 

No doubt. There's no accounting for gay people and what they approve and disapprove of! Take you, for instance! Go figure!

 

 

>I just love the way you creeps define as "self-hating" any gay

>man who happens to disagree with you about what is in the best

>interest of the gay community.

 

Sweetums, most gay men (especially of my generation) went through a long period of self-hatred until they finally accepted themselves and realized that in fact, we're fabulous and people like you AREN'T! We know self-hatred when we see it and hear it because we've lived it.

 

 

>You won't tell them for the same reason

>you don't tell the other people in your life about YOUR

>involvement. The moment you feel you don't need to hide what

>YOU do from the straight world, you can start using your real

>name rather than a fake name on this message board. Until

>then, you, Rick and the other self-righteous types will

>continue to conceal your activities under false names and

>anonymous email addresses while accusing me of "self-hatred"

>for doing the same. I won't hold my breath waiting for you

>lot to come clean.

 

Actually, quite a few people in my life DO know about my involvement. In some cases, it's not their thing and they wouldn't do it themselves, but they don't judge me or condemn my choices. As for the nicknames, the format of the board pretty much forces people into using pseudonyms. I don't have a problem with that, and in many cases the pseudonyms are much more descriptive of the user than his real name would be. As for my e-mail, it isn't anonymous, which is more than can be said for yours, I'm sure!

 

And now, why don't you go duck quietly back under your rock before someone gets your IP address and e-mails it to the entire straight world?

[Guest Oren]

HA! *YOU* of all people saying "less is more" is probably the funniest thing i've encountered this year!

 

:o

[woodlawn]

>Woodlawn:

>But the Dahmer comment is totally out of line to Rick

>or anyone else on this site.

 

You are of course entitled to draw whatever "line" you wish that you feel should not be crossed in dealing with the nasty characters who hang out here. But you are not entitled to demand that I or others refrain from crossing it. I don't think there's much I could say that would be shocking to Rick or to the others who have defended using an alleged rape as a subject for humor and titillation here.

[woodlawn]

>>Such places

>>seem inhabited by those gay men who can't deal unless

>they're

>>surrounded by people who are just like themselves.

 

>As opposed to you, who apparently surround yourself with

>people who are just like what you pretend to be.

 

Since you know nothing of the people with whom I associate, such comments are just more uninformed speculation on your part.

 

>(Most of my friends are actually straight, btw.)

 

Do they know you're a hooker? If you conceal such an important part of your life from them it's pretty ludicrous for you to refer to them as "friends."

 

>However, as for

>you: now that the board knows you're in the closet, your posts

>ripping apart "out" gay men have even less credibility.

>IMNSHO, you probably shouldn't have revealed that little

>tidbit!

 

The only thing that has been revealed in this thread is your habit of making shit up and pretending someone else said it so that you can criticize them for it. You will not find any such "tidbit" in any of my posts. Rather, like all the assumptions you've made about me, it comes from inside your head and not from anything I've told you.

 

[woodlawn]

>>That's a very good point, although I am not sure it's the

>>point you intended to make.

 

>That's EXACTLY the point I intended to make! Bingo! You got

>it!

 

Actually, the point is that this board would be a good place to eschew if one really wants to avoid hearing about the kind of behavior that causes the straight world to hold gays in such contempt. And people like you are a big part of the reason for that.

 

>>You think straight people wouldn't like the idea of fat old

>>men like you

 

>Is anyone here familiar with the old expression about "the pot

>calling the kettle black?"

 

Yes. As I understand it, it would only apply here if I, like you, were carrying around enough blubber to make it hard to get through a standard-size doorway.

 

>>going to third world countries so that they can

>>hire needy young guys for sex at cheap rates?

 

>Oh. You mean it's OK with straight America if I hire

>fucked-up, over-priced young men in the first world?

 

Quite the contrary. I mean you're doing something that is viewed with disgust and contempt not merely by straight people but also, I venture to say, by most gays.

 

 

>Exactly what part of

>"straight society" is it you're supposedly in touch with?

 

The part that denigrates "sex tourists" like you. The president included a condemnation of such activities in his recent speech at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. Disapproval of such activities is not exactly an obscure point of view.

 

 

>No doubt. There's no accounting for gay people and what they

>approve and disapprove of! Take you, for instance! Go

>figure!

 

If you find it hard to believe there are gay men and women who don't find rape amusing and don't care for sex tours, you'll have me convinced that you've spent the last few years on Mars, not Brazil.

 

>Sweetums, most gay men (especially of my generation) went

>through a long period of self-hatred until they finally

>accepted themselves and realized that in fact, we're fabulous

>and people like you AREN'T! We know self-hatred when we see

>it and hear it because we've lived it.

 

I'm sure you're qualified to talk about your own problem with self-hatred. I'm equally sure you lack the qualifications to analyze anyone else's problems. Being emotionally troubled yourself does not qualify you to diagnose other people any more than having a drug problem makes you a good choice to be a substance abuse counselor.

 

>Actually, quite a few people in my life DO know about my

>involvement.

 

And the others?

 

>in many cases the pseudonyms are much

>more descriptive of the user than his real name would be.

 

Of course they are. And they have the added benefit of allowing you to conceal your own sexual predilections from a disapproving world while blasting others for their failure to be "open" about their sexuality.

 

>And now, why don't you go duck quietly back under your rock

>before someone gets your IP address and e-mails it to the

>entire straight world?

 

You know, I really don't think someone who participates in the operation of a site like this is in a good position to make threats against anyone else. Not being a law school dropout myself, I have a pretty good understanding of how vulnerable a position such a person is in. Do you?