The Isla Vista Murders

[Frankly Rich]

A young man of 22 shot and killed seven people, and wounded thirteen others. The coverage at latimes.com is extensive. He posted several videos, and wrote a 137 page manifesto, summarized here in all its blood curdling glory: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-isla-vista-document-20140524-story.html#page=1

 

His chief complaint seems to be that he was a virgin; that good-looking girls wouldn't date him. To my mind, he was quite good-looking, and apparently participated in body-building. So deranged seems to be the most descriptive word for him. Warnings had been given, the police interviewed him, yet he was let free to commit these murders. Hindsight makes one wonder why.

 

Rarely does a mass murderer give such advance warning as this guy did, nor do they give such lengthy descriptions of their plans and their motives. Any number of people are lucky that he didn't have the time to get to them, but thankfully, he had the time to get to himself.

 

http://cdn2.everyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/elliot-rodger.jpg

 

An abridged version of his last video. I couldn't watch all of it.

http://media.theage.com.au/news/world-news/elliot-rodgers-retribution-5453757.html

[Guest]

Well, I don't think it's because of his looks that he kept being rejected. He was obviously a creep and a nut-case, and any woman with an ounce of common sense probably ran as fast as she could in the opposite direction when he came on to her. I don't know if he might have had more success if he had been gay. Men often listen to their gonads more than their brains. I don't think he could have sustained a long-term relationship, but he probably could have gotten laid...

[+ deej]

He actually had Asperger syndrome.

 

Asperger syndrome is often considered a high functioning form of autism. It can lead to difficulty interacting socially, repeat behaviors, and clumsiness.

 

HS and college are tough times for the socially awkward, to put it mildly. Clearly there were other things going on but calling him a creep doesn't help.

[Guest]

Clearly there were other things going on but calling him a creep doesn't help.

 

Well, obviously what's done is done, and nothing will reverse it. There may have been a biological reason for his personality, but the fact of the matter is that, for whatever reason, there's no denying he was a creep. Thank God not everyone with Asperger's Syndrome goes on mass murderous rampages, although they are probably more prone to it. Certainly, he knew what he was doing.

[Frankly Rich]

He was able to fool many people, including the police, so it's a wonder he couldn't charm some girl. But it is very over for him; the survivors have to live with the damage he did. Creep would be the mildest term in that context.

 

It didn't take long for FOX News to come up with "new information" in the case. That would be the allegation of one psycho they put on the air to claim that the murderer had "homosexual impulses" because women were taking men away from him. You can watch that at this link, but I couldn't be bothered:

http://www.towleroad.com/2014/05/fox-news-psychotherapist-suggests-homosexual-impulses-triggered-santa-barbara-mass-shooting-video.html

[MrMiniver]

Are having Asperger's and being a creep mutually exclusive? I think it's lost past time that we excused/explained every form of bad/criminal behavioral on some sort of syndrome or ADHD or bi-polar or you name it ....

[Guest boiworship08]

I've watched the videos. Extreme narcissist comes to mind. He focused on material things, like his BMW, his clothes and his $300 Armani sunglasses. I'm worried that there are more than a few others out there.

[dcguy20]

Truly horrible.

 

My questions:

 

Was there a mental health professional with the police when they questioned him recently?

What kind of prescriptions (if any) was he on? I ask, because with some of these anti-depressants one of the warnings is, "suicidal thoughts"

[adriano46]

And dare I even bring up the gorilla in the room - where the %$#$ were is "enabling" parents in all this? Who instilled in him all of these ideals of seeking riches, his narcissism, etc? Who bought him all of those trinkets or gave him the $$ to buy them? What of his teachers and classmates? It continues to amaze me how in a society so bent on intruding so much into our lives, people like this go "unnoticed" and unchallenged, and while I deeply respect the medical/psychiatric professions, I too am getting a little tired of the easy explanation of some syndrome, some other new-fangled discovery that seems to say, "Well, he suffered from "X" and so we cannot blame him." I agree with some others wrote here too on his prescription meds.

[dcguy20]

I believe his mother was one of the people who contacted authorities about the videos he was posting. A friend of his was interviewed on the news last night, and he mentioned trying to get his friend to seek help.

[Frankly Rich]

He had been posting scary videos on YouTube, but took them down after the police visit. And yes, he was seeing a therapist. He's the one who notified the parents that the rampage was at hand.

[+ FreshFluff]

His chief complaint seems to be that he was a virgin; that good-looking girls wouldn't date him. To my mind, he was quite good-looking, and apparently participated in body-building.

 

The girls he wanted, those at the top sororities, don't just want a good looking guy. They also want status, which in college means being in a top fraternity or being an athlete. So in effect, the fraternities are the gatekeepers to women.

 

I'd be surprised if he hit on a lot of women. In his video, he says the girls in Alpha Phi would have rejected him, so he hadn't even tried to talk to them. That's surprising because he spent a lot of time on a site called PUAHate, which is populated by guys who are disaffected with the pick up artist movement.

[EZEtoGRU]

And dare I even bring up the gorilla in the room - where the %$#$ were is "enabling" parents in all this? Who instilled in him all of these ideals of seeking riches, his narcissism, etc? Who bought him all of those trinkets or gave him the $$ to buy them? What of his teachers and classmates? It continues to amaze me how in a society so bent on intruding so much into our lives, people like this go "unnoticed" and unchallenged, and while I deeply respect the medical/psychiatric professions, I too am getting a little tired of the easy explanation of some syndrome, some other new-fangled discovery that seems to say, "Well, he suffered from "X" and so we cannot blame him." I agree with some others wrote here too on his prescription meds.

 

The parents did notify the police:

1. Initially when they were concerned about him. That resulted in the first police visit.

2. The day of the rampage once they had seen his doctrine and before the fireworks had started

 

I conclude that they did take appropriate action based on what we currently know.

 

As far as the "elephant in the room" goes. Welcome to the reality of rich kids in the US nowadays. I retired in 2009 after working for a Fortune 50 company. I can tell you that many young graduates we would hire the last few years I was working were often spoiled brats that had everything handed to them when growing up. They would turn up for work on day one for their first real job driving Jags, BMWs, Corvettes, etc. Stories of private jets flying our employee and his/her friends to Cancun for Spring Break whist attending university. So many parents have lost the savvy of teaching the children the value of a dollar, responsibility, or the reality of what most people's lives are actually like. I doubt all these spoilt brats are going to become mass murderers. I'm not sure that's what's behind this kids actions.

[adriano46]

Thanks for the added information dcguy20, Frankly Rich, and EZEtoGRU -- but this raises even more questions than providing answers.

 

So, his parents and his therapist notified the police and friends knew... so we can suppose that the police are the ones who BADLY dropped the ball here? I would start asking a LOT of questions of the local police who visited the perpetrator, and find out why they did not pick up on what were very obvious signs of dangerous behavior.

[+ deej]

so we can suppose that the police are the ones who BADLY dropped the ball here?

 

That's a mighty slippery slope.

 

We're still innocent until proven guilty in this country. Police need probable cause to arrest us.

 

It isn't illegal to be nutty. I've had a couple of aunts who got downright dotty in their old age and we asked authorities to check up on them, but they hadn't done anything illegal.

 

If saying nutty things on the internet are cause for arrest, there are a few people here who might want to lock their doors.

 

I am not defending his actions and will never defend his actions, but don't blame the cops who are working within defined rules that protect YOU and ME from unlawful arrest.

[Frankly Rich]

deej, should not the police at the least have checked to see if he had purchased any guns? Basically they let this dangerous man sweet talk them out of trouble. Perhaps that's all we should expect, I don't know exactly what information they had.

[Guest boiworship08]

The girls he wanted, those at the top sororities, don't just want a good looking guy. They also want status, which in college means being in a top fraternity or being an athlete. So in effect, the fraternities are the gatekeepers to women.

 

I'd be surprised if he hit on a lot of women. In his video, he says the girls in Alpha Phi would have rejected him, so he hadn't even tried to talk to them. That's surprising because he spent a lot of time on a site called PUAHate, which is populated by guys who are disaffected with the pick up artist movement.

 

True, but they also like guys with money, which he seemed to have had, and personality. Through relatives, I'm very familiar with UCSB. It's rigorous, but also a party school, and our boy had severe social interaction issues, so he rarely was in a venue where the girls he wanted would be available. He also had this obsession with blondes, which turned to hate, as expressed in his manifesto and videos. I'm also wondering what was behind his knife massacre of his two Chinese roommates and their visiting Chinese friend before he set off on his shooting and car-ramming spree. He killed three females and three males in addition to himself.

[+ Gar1eth]

True, but they also like guys with money, which he seemed to have had, and personality. Through relatives, I'm very familiar with UCSB. It's rigorous, but also a party school, and our boy had severe social interaction issues, so he rarely was in a venue where the girls he wanted would be available. He also had this obsession with blondes, which turned to hate, as expressed in his manifesto and videos. I'm also wondering what was behind his knife massacre of his two Chinese roommates and their visiting Chinese friend before he set off on his shooting and car-ramming spree. He killed three females and three males in addition to himself.

 

I was reading an article in the NYT. I don't have it at hand right now. But I think while he had had some trouble getting along with his roommates, the main reason he killed them was to prevent them from informing anyone about what he was about to do.

 

Gman

[+ deej]

deej, should not the police at the least have checked to see if he had purchased any guns?

 

His weapons were purchased legally. It would be advantageous if it were illegal for the mentally unstable to own guns, but no politician in this country is going to touch THAT third rail. People like this guy, and the Phoenix shooter, and the Aurora shooter, and the Sandy Hook shooter, etc. all purchased their guns legally (or a family member did). We explicitly permit them to own guns.

 

I heard an expert (so take this with a grain of salt) on the radio say that his therapist needs to take a fall here. She knew about his issues and actually spoke with the family while this was breaking news, reassuring them it couldn't be him because "he doesn't plan to act until tomorrow" (or something like that).

[instudiocity]

It's the guy that did the killings - keeping him away from guns wouldn't have saved the roommates or the biker. He killed six people, 3 with knives, 2 with guns and one with a BMW for God's sake..

 

It always comes back the the perp not his tools. It was the perp's mind that caused him to do these things, not the guns, knives or car.

 

Yeah, the sheriff's deputies should have checked him further - like running a background check to see that he'd been accumulating 3 guns. (California law says you have to wait 10 days between the purchase and picking up a gun as well as passing a background check. Then the law says you can't buy a second gun for 30 more days - so this perp had three transactions spread over at least 90 days. But still, he killed with other devices, too.

 

My son talked a lot like this kid - but no YouTube and no Manifesto... I still moved him home so I could watch out for him until he figured life out. This comes down to this kid's parents and his therapist not intervening. The kid was in Santa Barbara for 5 years and was still attending 2 year college? His YouTube posts would have been enough for me to change his environment - get him out of the place he where he was failing to cope.

[+ deej]

He killed six people, 3 with knives, 2 with guns and one with a BMW for God's sake..

 

You're a few souls short, but we've known that about you for a while now. The other victims don't matter to you. Got it.

 

Yeah, the sheriff's deputies should have checked him further

 

Yeah, sure, spend hours checking out a kid with no priors. You'd scream bloody murder if it was you and you know it. But since you've declared that they obviously should have done more, please give a list of exactly what they did. You clearly have precise knowledge.

 

You're true to form. As I was typing my earlier post I made a list of posters who would reply and what they'd say. You're as predictable as an NRA bumper sticker. Got anything of your own or are you just going to repeat their talking points?

[Frankly Rich]

The fact that his guns were purchased legally means that there was a record of their purchase, easily accessible to the cops. Should they have checked? Hindsight is obviously easier here, but without anyone specifying a threat by gun, I doubt it. I know if I were to be interviewing a guy on a mental health issue, I'd want to know if he had guns, and it just isn't that hard for the police to find out.

[instudiocity]

You're a few souls short, but we've known that about you for a while now. The other victims don't matter to you. Got it.

nope, I'm right on with that number. He killed six. Plus himself. I didn't mention the wounded.

 

Yeah, sure, spend hours checking out a kid with no priors. You'd scream bloody murder if it was you and you know it. But since you've declared that they obviously should have done more, please give a list of exactly what they did. You clearly have precise knowledge.

 

You're true to form. As I was typing my earlier post I made a list of posters who would reply and what they'd say. You're as predictable as an NRA bumper sticker. Got anything of your own or are you just going to repeat their talking points?

Why are you so angry at me?

[Frankly Rich]

The LA Times has more on the issue of guns and the police visiting the soon-to-be killer:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-rodger-weapons-20140531-story.html

[BSR]

nope, I'm right on with that number. He killed six. Plus himself. I didn't mention the wounded.

 

Why are you so angry at me?

 

Don't take it personally, instudiocity. Deej's posts are often seething with anger, to anybody and everybody.