Bye, bye for a while, Conrad Murray

[Guest]

He's probably the biggest embarrassment to the medical community in the U.S. today. Not only were his actions completely indefensible, and for the most vile of motives, but his attempt to shift the blame to a man he must have known was very mentally disturbed enraged me, and I'm sure many others, even more. The judge sounded pretty pissed as well. I hope he gets the maximum sentence allowable under the law.

[wayout]

He's probably the biggest embarrassment to the medical community in the U.S. today. Not only were his actions completely indefensible, and for the most vile of motives, but his attempt to shift the blame to a man he must have known was very mentally disturbed enraged me, and I'm sure many others, even more. The judge sounded pretty pissed as well. I hope he gets the maximum sentence allowable under the law.

 

I totally agree that he is a huge embarrassment and he deserved being found guilty. My understanding is that the max sentence is 4 years, which seems so very short for the taking of a human life. I also believe that he automatically loses his medical license (in California at least). To add insult to injury,however, it is possible that he could be sentenced to house arrest due to budget and overcrowding problems in LA. There is likely intense pressure to put him in prison, at least for some period of time, to make an example of him but perhaps they might give him house arrest after a short time as his safety may be in jeopardy in prison.

[EZEtoGRU]

I totally agree that he is a huge embarrassment and he deserved being found guilty. My understanding is that the max sentence is 4 years, which seems so very short for the taking of a human life. I also believe that he automatically loses his medical license (in California at least). To add insult to injury,however, it is possible that he could be sentenced to house arrest due to budget and overcrowding problems in LA. There is likely intense pressure to put him in prison, at least for some period of time, to make an example of him but perhaps they might give him house arrest after a short time as his safety may be in jeopardy in prison.

 

Yes.....he may actually do very little time in jail. To add insult to injury, TMZ is reporting that Murray already filmed and completed a documentary during the last two years which sheds light on the pre-trial phase and also is said to reveal intimate details about MJ. He stands to possibly make alot of money off this documentary. Unfortunately, Conrad Murray may have the last laugh. The feeling of "justice served" that we all had yesterday may prove to be very brief.

[wayout]

Yes.....he may actually do very little time in jail. To add insult to injury, TMZ is reporting that Murray already filmed and completed a documentary during the last two years which sheds light on the pre-trial phase and also is said to reveal intimate details about MJ. He stands to possibly make alot of money off this documentary. Unfortunately, Conrad Murray may have the last laugh. The feeling of "justice served" that we all had yesterday may prove to be very brief.

 

Aren't there supposed to be laws that prevents a person from profiting from his crimes? Unless he is able to shield it, his ill gotten gains will be depleted by the cost of lawyers and likely any judgement against him brought in a civil lawsuit for wrongful death.

 

And if he does reveal intimate details about MJ, it just goes to show you how low this guy is and his total disregard for doctor patient confidentiality (which I believe continues even after the patient's death).

[EZEtoGRU]

Good point wayout. I do not know what the limitations might be on the money Murray makes from said documentary. Perhaps he did it under advisement of his lawyers. It may be a scheme to make money which will go directly to pay legal fees. If profits made bypass Murray and go directly to the law firm perhaps he can bypass the profiteering laws.

[jgoo]

With the help of some clever lawyers, there are ways to get around the non profiting from a crime restrictions. All Murray needs is to shift the profits to someone he trusts, like one of his many girlfriends. The most recent example of someone getting around the law is Andrew and Ruth Madoff, the son and wife of convicted Ponzi schemer Bernie Madoff. They recently wrote a book and they will not receive any money from it (directly) but the fiance of Andrew will get the profits from it.

[gallahadesquire]

I feel safe commenting here. I think CNN made a good point: Even anesthesiologists are afraid of this drug. In surgery once, I got a small does of Propofol after some pain medicine and another anti-anxiety drug, and promptly stopped breathing.

 

If he were so stupid as to administer Propofol, he needed AT LEAST a pulse oximeter (the little red light-thing that they put on your finger). An electrocardiogram wouldn't have been a bad idea. Monitoring breathing in any of several modalities, but especially watching for exhaled carbon dioxide, would have been good too. AND NEVER TO LEAVE THE ROOM when all this stuff is running. Those are the standards by which Anesthesiologists live, and they're still scared of the drug.

 

Since we can't get Sodium Pentothal anymore (nobody in this country makes it) ... will we turn to propofol for Lethal Injection? [Aside: Probably not. There are other barbiturates available.]

[+ nycman]

....Even anesthesiologists are afraid of this drug....

 

I don't think that statement is accurate. I'd say most "intelligent" doctors (i.e. not Dr. Conrad Murray)

have a "healthy respect" for this drug. It's an amazing drug but it can be dangerous. A doctor being "afraid"

of a drug is like you being afraid of your car. Yes, it can kill you...but are you really "afraid" of it?

[zeyfur]

I read he will be free in no time.

[JoeBlow]

Murray absolutely cannot be excused for negligent poor medical practice and definitely should never be allowed to practice medicine. He couldn't even perform decent CPR...jeeezus!. But Michael Jackson put himself on the road to an early death after years of drug addiction and self-destructive behavior. Dr. Murray just happened to be the guy that made Jackson's death occur.

[EZEtoGRU]

Murray absolutely cannot be excused for negligent poor medical practice and definitely should never be allowed to practice medicine. He couldn't even perform decent CPR...jeeezus!. But Michael Jackson put himself on the road to an early death after years of drug addiction and self-destructive behavior. Dr. Murray just happened to be the guy that made Jackson's death occur.

I agree entirely. Jackson & Murray share the blame for the end result (MJ's death). For me, it's kind of like Octomom. I hold her and her doctor equally culpable for her situation: Single mom that cannot afford it having octuplets after already having four kids before. It's rediculous.

 

Doesn't excuse Murray's behaviour. He should lose hid license to practice medicine.

[JoeyBryant]

My understanding is that the max sentence is 4 years, which seems so very short for the taking of a human life.

 

You have to understand though that this was one of those 'takes 2 to tango' scenarios. The reason why he hired a shady doctor was so he could get shady prescriptions.

 

As much as I wish it didn't happen that way, If it wasn't Conrad it would have been someone else.

 

That's like going to a bar and saying, "more shots more shots more shots" and then crashing on the way home. Yes the bar has part responsibility (and may be held liable), but the blame lies on the person itself.

[Guest]

You have to understand though that this was one of those 'takes 2 to tango' scenarios. The reason why he hired a shady doctor was so he could get shady prescriptions.

 

As much as I wish it didn't happen that way, If it wasn't Conrad it would have been someone else.

 

That's like going to a bar and saying, "more shots more shots more shots" and then crashing on the way home. Yes the bar has part responsibility (and may be held liable), but the blame lies on the person itself.

 

Well, if someone other doctor had agreed to do that, hopefully he'd be in jail, too. The bar analogy is not apt. Alcohol is freely available for purchase to everyone of legal drinking age. It doesn't take years of training and a medical license to pour someone a drink. And drinking alcohol doesn't normally require complex monitoring systems in order to be taken safely. The state rightfully requires many years of supervised training and rigorous testing before granting a doctor a physician's and surgeon's license. In granting such a license, it entrusts upon the recipient the ability to use many potentially dangerous and even lethal chemicals (and procedures), with the knowledge and trust that such a licensee will use these wisely and not endanger his patients for profit. No one ever paid a bartender anywhere near $150,000 a month to pour drinks for a single person. Yes, every day there are physicians who abuse this trust, and do things they know they shouldn't for their own profit. However, this goes above and beyond selling Vicodin to a drug dealer (and some of those doctors go to jail, too). As just about anyone knows (including Dr. Murray), Michael was a highly emotionally disturbed individual who was ripe for being taken advantage of, and separated from his money. Whether of not Michael was taking Ativan or other drugs is irrelevant. Administering propofol in a home setting is reckless and grossly negligent. Even the doctor testifying FOR Dr. Murray had to agree to that. I have never heard anything close to being so outrageous in the over 2 decades I've been practicing medicine. A license to practice medicine shouldn't be a license to endanger others' lives for profit.

[+ deej]

A license to practice medicine shouldn't be a license to endanger others' lives for profit.

 

I know you know this but those last two words aren't necessary.

 

Doesn't the Hippocratic oath include "never do harm to anyone" or words to that effect?

 

Murray was being paid by AIG to keep the patient alive, which should have been his goal even if that wasn't his charter. He failed, and he did so in a massively irresponsible manner.

[Guest]

I know you know this but those last two words aren't necessary.

 

Doesn't the Hippocratic oath include "never do harm to anyone" or words to that effect?

 

Actually, there is no requirement to take any form of Hippocratic oath for either licensure or medical school graduation. At my medical school graduation, some jerks put in something about life beginning at conception, so I refused to take it.

[Guest]

I looked up a modern version on wikipedia, and it actually doesn't have the part of "do no harm" (although that is a riding principle in medicine):

Modern version

A widely used modern version of the traditional oath was penned in 1964 by Dr. Louis Lasagna, former Principal of the Sackler School of Graduate Biomedical Sciences and Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University:[8]

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

[jgoo]

I agree entirely. Jackson & Murray share the blame for the end result (MJ's death)....

 

I hear this a lot about how MJ is responsible in some degree for his own death and shares the blame with Dr. Murray. I am torn on whether or not a drug addict can really be held responsible for their own demise. I think it is becoming more and more accepted that a drug addiction is a brain disease and while the initial drug use might be voluntary, once addiction develops the self control is significantly disrupted. If it is in fact a disease, then how can one be held responsible for the end result?

[EZEtoGRU]

I hear this a lot about how MJ is responsible in some degree for his own death and shares the blame with Dr. Murray. I am torn on whether or not a drug addict can really be held responsible for their own demise. I think it is becoming more and more accepted that a drug addiction is a brain disease and while the initial drug use might be voluntary, once addiction develops the self control is significantly disrupted. If it is in fact a disease, then how can one be held responsible for the end result?

I understand what you are saying and quite a few people would agree with you. I guess I align myself more with the idea that people need to take responsibility for their situations and find the strength to fix it. All addicts that successfully rise above their addiction have done so due to them personally deciding that they will fight it. No-one can fix their addiction for them. They have to take responsibility for it themselves.

 

I, in no way, am supporting Conrad Murray. He is a sleazeball doctor and should spend alot more time behind bars than he is likely to. Also, I am furious over his documentary and the money he or his appointed alternates may make off of it. However, in the end, no-one forced MJ to be injected with the drug every night. He sought out this treatment until he found a doctor that would provide it for him. I am sure MJ had an understanding that this was a very strong drug and not a normal course of treatment since others had refused to give it to him. For me, at least he shares the blame equally with the good doctor.