It gets to a point where frugality has to yield...

[Guest Rich.]

Not if you practice SAFE SEX Rich. LOLOLOL

 

LMFAO Jjkrkwood, BUT no such thing as SAFE sex, it's SAFER sex.

 

Richard

[gcursor]

Um....SHARKS!!!!

 

Oh hell..i can't get the stupid shark picture to work! HERE..I drew this!

 

damn it...the shark drawing picture I drew isn't working either to share...

 

Well what the.....oh no! here they come...

[jjkrkwood]

LMFAO Jjkrkwood, BUT no such thing as SAFE sex, it's SAFER sex.

 

Richard

 

Tis TRUE, Tis TRUE, I've always wondered if escorts came with Warning labels on them. !

[Zapped]

Some random thoughts on this issue

 

I sympathize with Joey, and I also agree that venting here may not help his situation (unless he follows the advice to change the image he projects to potential clients here).

 

Some thoughts that come to mind: when we hire an escort, we're paying for an experience, to fulfill a fantasy. Maybe just to satisfy the need for human contact, to touch and be held. Or for convenience and control. I just spent 5 months in NY and had what for me is a lot of sex, with guys I met on Grindr and gay.com (imagine if I'd also used Manhunt and A4A). I'm 52 and have a belly. And it turned out that there were plenty of guys from 19 to early 30s who are attracted to daddy types. I was tempted to hire a couple of times, to be with a certain body type or to fulfill a particular fantasy. Or to not have to wait for my online fishing to get a bite.

 

If I were to hire, I'd want to get someone really good, someone who would fulfill a particular fantasy, and I'd expect to pay for it. But I've been around the escorting scene long enough to know that there are really good, professional escorts who are genuinely client centered, and that you (most often) get what you pay for.

 

Many men like to negotiate and get a bargain. I do. And so it's not surprising that some guys, especially those new to hiring, might think here's some young guy who needs money, and may well need it enough that he'll settle for small, I'm-desperate amount. I'm sure it's enormously frustrating.

 

The poor way some guys treat escorts probably reflects their own internalized homophobia and self-contempt. I remember reading John Rechy's books, and how so many of his clients needed to feel superior to him, especially intellectually. Those of us who genuinely respect and admire genuinely professional escorts are, I expect, a mall minority.

 

This is a bunch of rambling, I know. But I'd say that every professional does need to find ways to create a perception of high value. That the experience will be extraordinary. (And of course, the experience offered must be extraordinary.) And in communications with low-ball-offer clients, have a way to communicate why your services are worth what you charge.

 

Finally, I remember when I was selling a riding lawn mower years ago at a moving sale. I put the price I wanted on it, and guys kept trying to negotiate down. So I changed the price from, I think $500 to $575 and let the next guy spend 15 minutes haggling me down to $500. I acted all defeated, he seemed all puffed up with triumph. We both had fun and I got what I wanted.

 

I don't know if setting a higher price and letting guys negotiate you down would work for escorts, or if it's a game many escorts want to play. But it sure seems to be one that a lot of Joey's clients want to play.

[rossthebosssf]

Sorry Joseph, I am not totally agreeing with you. Yes escorts may be a luxury, but surely you cant equate it to a business that has overhead, payroll, expenses, supplies, etc. All you need is some soap, toothpaste, hair gel which are items you would normally use in your day to day life.... All you are investing is TIME. Sure you should get paid, but escorts that ask for $200-$300 for an hour of time is ludicrous. They are not doctors, or lawyers. they are not saving lives or improving the world in any way. They are just giving people SEXUAL and emotional satisfaction. YES, they should get paid, but in my opinion, not at the rates they charge. AND I do use escorts, before you start to chastise me. I do also realize you are a massage therapist and speaking from that viewpoint so my comments are not directed about YOU,

 

Have you forgotten that escorts can pay upwards of $500-$1000 a month for ads? Or when they travel they have $200 a night in hotel bills? Transportation, etc.? Like any business professional, they do have real overhead. And the other thing to keep in mind is that unlike Doctor's or Lawyers, they can't possibly work 8 hours a day on every given day. Taking that into account, an one hour job could breakdown to only $25 per hour. And you probably haven't even thought about how much time time and money an upscale escort spends in gym time, personal trainers, etc. It all adds up.

[rossthebosssf]

Joey, my advice is know your worth and stick with it. Offering multiple hour discounts in your ads will eliminate need for negotiation.

[Guest Rich.]

Have you forgotten that escorts can pay upwards of $500-$1000 a month for ads? Or when they travel they have $200 a night in hotel bills? Transportation, etc.? Like any business professional, they do have real overhead. And the other thing to keep in mind is that unlike Doctor's or Lawyers, they can't possibly work 8 hours a day on every given day. Taking that into account, an one hour job could breakdown to only $25 per hour. And you probably haven't even thought about how much time time and money an upscale escort spends in gym time, personal trainers, etc. It all adds up.

 

I get that RossTheBossSF, but I'm now connected to a group of students who aren't paying anything to advertise and are more than happy with the $60 per half-hour. If any Escort has $500-$1,000 of overheads per month, then they've chosen that and need to ensure that their offering and the client base understands and is orientated towards that price point. It makes me laugh that the girls have long since understood their marketplace. The guys seem to think that headless face shots taken in front of a mirror with a mobile phone will ensure them $200 an hour.

 

Laughable.

 

Richard

[mansniffing]

My NY perspective:

Interesting. Then there are escorts who are clever enough to list a price that is neither too high nor too low but less than what most others are charging. While others advertise higher than what others are charging. I'd say that the ones with higher than average rates expect to bargain down to the fee they want, while other who charge lower than the average rate probably will get a tip to bring the fee up to what they expect. It's all in the game and the way you play it. My recent experience and "one of my best" was from an escort who advertised $30 lower than the going rate. And if you must know $250 is my limit . . . period. Of course there are others who do what I call cafeteria service. They charge a lower rate but charge extra for services listed in their profile as ones they "DON'T DO." Different strokes for different folks. As far as tipping? Well that has been discussed ad nauseam and a totally subjective decision for each client. I wouldn't judge either way on that subject. Though one mustn't "look a gift horse in the mouth." Or perhaps "don't kill the golden goose." And to repeat myself: It's all in the game and the way you play it. Human beings are complex but so much fun . . . you never know what to expect and oft times are amused in ways that bring a chuckle.

[JoeyBryant]

So, who would I book to accompany me? OK, with that kind of money, there'd be no problem making an Indecent Proposal to Falcon's 'Roman', Sean Cody's 'Jamie', Corbin Fisher's 'Trey', or Bound Gods' 'Vince'.

 

Nope. OK, I admit those 'fantasies' would cross my mind. But it kills me (!) to type this. My first call would be to Rick Munroe, to check his availability.

 

I've only been posting on this Board for the last month or so, but in that time I know enough that he'd show me a fantastic time, both in and out of bed. He teases (and equally loves being teased), is generous and kind to someone he may never receive a red-cent from, and has sent gorgeous PMs to a guy he may never meet. Oh, and I have no idea what he looks like. Honestly. None.

 

And whether I call him Munroe, Babs or Wuckfit, the man recognises that my British sense-of-humour means that those are terms of endearment, not insults.

 

So, Joey, what are you doing to position yourself in what has become a fragmented marketplace? If I go into a shop and it has Prada and Amarni Prive alongside Gap and A&F, plus some used Levi's, what is my expectation?

 

Although I appreciate your fantasy of name-dropping...guess what? Who you decide to hire is not my prerogative unless it's me. None of those people you mentioned have the same attributes as me either so there's no need in even 'trying' to be like them. I be myself. And the fact that you've never actually hired them makes me care even less. Sounds like what you're actually doing is trying to pit me up against some competitors in an attempt to make me feel like I haven't done enough to make myself known...

 

What I have done to position myself is to place myself in places that are in need of a Black male escort. That's where I do best at. I don't go to New York, I don't go to Atlanta or Chicago where there's enough stationed in each of those places to go around several times over. I go to places where I can manage the market without being outnumbered. There's numerous places in the U.S. as well as outside of the region that supports that. Despite what I've written here, I feel I still fare better off being here.

 

You've created your own problem if you don't indicate your rate in your ad (I'm assumiing you don't based on the emails you received).

 

Unfortunately with Backpage even the smallest indication of listing a rate is edited out.

 

This is probably more of a case against backpage. And some are wondering why the heck would I even waste time on such a horrid site. Well in this region backpage surpasses rentboy. I can count the number of clients I've gotten from rentboy in the 7 months I've been here versus the 'quite a few' clients from backpage over the same period.

 

Have you forgotten that escorts can pay upwards of $500-$1000 a month for ads? Or when they travel they have $200 a night in hotel bills? Transportation, etc.? Like any business professional, they do have real overhead. And the other thing to keep in mind is that unlike Doctor's or Lawyers, they can't possibly work 8 hours a day on every given day. Taking that into account, an one hour job could breakdown to only $25 per hour. And you probably haven't even thought about how much time time and money an upscale escort spends in gym time, personal trainers, etc. It all adds up.

 

Thanks Ross for clarifying that. People seem to forget or simply don't realize that in order to even reach a certain group of clients the money that's involved in doing so.

 

Don't even get me started on dentist stuff. I just paid a dentist $280 to clean my teeth in preparation for a whitening and crown. You know how long that took? About 20 minutes. I could easily say to myself, "he doesn't deserve that amount" but I wouldn't come in there empty handed.

[MiamiLooker]

Thanks Ross for clarifying that. People seem to forget or simply don't realize...

 

or really don't care

 

...that in order to even reach a certain group of clients the money that's involved in doing so.

[JoeyBryant]

I'll say. Bemoaning cheap customers on the internet is about the dumbest marketing campaign I've ever seen. Honestly, how do you define success?

 

This tacky rant is a complete turn-off to any potential customer with money in his wallet and brains in his head. It seems to me, you just shot yourself in the foot, or maybe, in the balls, which is never a good thing for the escort business.I recommend you spend a little money and invest in some business education. In a short time, you might realize your past mistakes and finally figure out how to make a business venture extremely profitable. In the meantime, if I were you, I would write Daddy and ask that this thread be pulled. You didn't do yourself any business favors by posting this.

 

I refuse to allow you to intimidated or bully me into having this thread removed. You must think I'm some weak minded punk who can't stand up for himself.

 

In addition, this would not be a turn-off to a potential customer but rather an appreciation for those who are willing to do what it takes to ensure they get the best from the person they are hiring. I'm sure the last thing a client would want is to have the escort leave feeling as though they had not gotten in what they've given out. And there's plenty out there who are happy to do so.

 

And FYI, I have a stack of books from my A.A. from everything from Business management, Contemporary business, Business Administration and communication, and customer service all that I took in 1 semester. So don't assume anything.

 

It'd be a different story if I was posting this on my rentboy, men4rent or backpage ad where clients actually do read it. But this is a discussion lounge. I assume most are here for entertainment purposes only.

[Guest Rich.]

And FYI, I have a stack of books from my A.A.

 

Ahh... OK, Joey... Alcoholics Anonymous... explains much. Good luck on your 12 steps. Oh, and I just checked. Your BLACK. Ouch. I couldn't possibly comment, being a WASP.

 

(WASP=White Anglo Saxon Protestant, in case you didn't get that from skool!).

 

Richard.

[Scorpio]

Ahh... OK, Joey... Alcoholics Anonymous... explains much. Good luck on your 12 steps. Oh, and I just checked. Your BLACK. Ouch. I couldn't possibly comment, being a WASP.

 

(WASP=White Anglo Saxon Protestant, in case you didn't get that from skool!).

 

Richard.

 

Actually it explains nothing. A.A. = Associates in Arts degree given by 2 yr colleges. Your assumption that AA was Acholics Annoymous makes no sense within the context of what Joey has written.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate_in_Arts

 

And I would imagine that the "skool" comment is going to cause you some trouble as well.

 

However, Joey never understands that his rants often to more to harm his business than help his business; as this is not the first time that he has posted this particular rant and I doubt it will be the last.

[RockHard]

Why do I bother?

 

I refuse to allow you to intimidate(d) or bully me into having this thread removed.

Intimidation and bullying were the furthest thing from my mind. My suggestion that you ask for the thread to be removed was to save you from yourself. However, stubborn is as stubborn does.

 

You must think I'm some weak minded punk who can't stand up for himself.

Again, you are wrong. A "weak-minded punk who can't stand up for himself" is a thought that never entered my brain. I do think you have poor writing skills and a serious lack of business acumen.

 

 

So don't assume anything... I assume most are here for...

Apparently, you don't practice what you preach.

 

Once again, I give up.

[+ overeasy]

Woah, gents...I just took the time to read this thread from top to bottom. Some good, some bad -- my opinion. Appreciate your comments Scorpio. Rich, I think that, perchance, your last comment was a bit too much, and maybe more than you meant. It seems that some here have let words light wildfires that might best be contained some. I don't know Joey. Never have met or conversed with him. Have read many of his entries in the boards here...usually don't respond. I might not try to hire him for fear that I could not live up to his expectations of what I should be to be the right kind of client. For whatever reason, he seems to need to occassionally vent his professional frustrations to a group of maybe-potential clients. That is his choice. Joey, you might have fared better by posting this one to the "Ask an Escort" board rather than the Lounge...but...whatever. It is also the choice of anyone reading the comments to take from them what they want, and leave the rest. It doesn't appear that there are any "winners" in this thread so far; and I can't see how there can be when the arguments center on personal beliefs and opinions. All that can come from that is defensive posturing...But along the way, let's endeavor to play as nice as we can.

[+ glutes]

Rich, I think that, perchance, your last comment was a bit too much, and maybe more than you meant. .

 

What do you expect, it is 12:45AM in Brighton, RichBritNOTbn might be pulling another all-nighter...

[down_to_business]

In perhaps cold terms it will come down to supply and demand. The economy is in the toilet for all but the upper echelon of society. You are competing with many others for a very small peice of the pie. I think the mid rate escorts ($100 - $200 per hour) have an incredible opportunity and will thrive in this economy. The 200+ can thrive, but they must distinguish their branding from the rest of the pack. In this economy, repeat business-- your regular customers-- are going to be your bread and butter.

 

I have cautioned against valuing yourself by the amount of money you command by the hour and I stick by that. If you do not want to negotiate rates, then by all means don't negotiate rates. But I think its a little foolish to take it personally or show public indignation. Just say I am not interested and move on. I honestly can't think of many people who are paying full 'sticker price' for anything nowdays.

[Guest Rich.]

Oh, what? No San Antonio time check? Glutes baby, I'm disappointed, you've become self referential. It's good to know you've finally accepted ND as an upstanding man. Oh, and BN as your superior in all things. Good lil' Poopy Head. Wuf! (that's fag for WOOF!).

 

Richard.

[seeker630]

Ahh... OK, Joey... Alcoholics Anonymous... explains much. Good luck on your 12 steps. Oh, and I just checked. Your BLACK. Ouch. I couldn't possibly comment, being a WASP.

 

(WASP=White Anglo Saxon Protestant, in case you didn't get that from skool!).

 

Richard.

 

Rich, If you're going to call someone out on their writing, you should proof your own.

[Guest Rich.]

Votre point est, Seeker?

 

Richard

[seeker630]

Votre point est, Seeker?

 

Richard

 

You wrote 'Your black'.

[MsGuy]

Votre point est, Seeker?

 

Richard

 

"Your" does not equal "you're"? Just my best guess.

 

I set myself up in a similar way a few weeks ago. Best to triple proof a post if one is going to go all old skool grammarian here.

[Guest Rich.]

Sorry Seeker darling. I meant half-caste.

 

Richard

[Guest Rich.]

Tell me the truth MsGuy. We are discussing where to stuff the point?

 

Richard

[Guest Rich.]

Spell checkers huh? Yawn... !