how is it that clients are more reliable than everyday people?

[JoeyBryant]

it just seems harder and harder to meet real people these days. While everything is going well in the business department, it seems like trying to actually meet people in my personal life is pointless.

 

Just last night i had a date with a guy we planned on. Time comes around no text. No call or anything. Then this afternoon he texts me that sorry he had something come up. I didn't even bother responding. Before that i met a guy at the club. He wanted to fuck that night but i wasn't about to drive to southeast Denver at 4 am and then wake up at 8 am cause he had to be to work first thing in the morning. After that i asked to see him later that week and he flaked. And the guy i speak with now is half reliable. Trying to date me but cant make up his mind with someone else. So every time the weekend comes around, he has some reason not to hangout with me but is okay talking and texting over the phone. And the thing is, all these guys are coming up to me! I'm not the one hitting them up first, they are messaging me first, coming up to me at the bar first etc. etc. I generally don't go up to guys first because most times when I put myself out there to speak to someone first, generally the feelings aren't mutual. It's like, why did I even work up the courage to speak to you if you're just going to walk away?

 

Between the bars and adam4adam i have only been able to make 1 or 2 dates this year. And adam4adam has degenerated so much, I can't even meet anyone off of there. Its like guys go on there and have no intention of meeting with someone. Its like, why are you here if you don't want to meet anyone? So looks like my profile on there is going down and just keep a pro ad up, but don't even know if that's worth keeping up either.

 

Yet, when a client calls and sets up an appointment...generally they follow thru with it. When I get a client who calls and asks to meet at 8, I know I better not plan anything for the couple of hours leading up to it. But I take the most sincere sounding everyday people and try to make plans with them, and what do they do? They don't show up. Or they never call and just text because they're living some sort of secret life. I don't get it...

 

That's why this year I'm hoping to get out to visit another country as well because it seems like the younger American gay lifestyle is so full of flakes that it's ridiculous. I emailed Mark Gordon awhile back about visiting Toronto and his reply was much more polite than I'm used to. And it also seems like alot of the younger gay guys here in American still have these prejudices, and it's not the older guys contrary to belief. Like the other day, I had a bartender tell me, "I'm not usually attracted to Black guys, but you're hot". I thought to myself, is that a compliment or a put-down? So...being that naturally I am attracted to guys lighter than me, its like I get second rated and then some of them don't know how to have anything more to do with someone not like their color except have sex.

[imrthr]

Welcome to the real world.

 

You have just described the way many people are.

 

One of these days you will get lucky.

-

[josephga]

All I ever see is massage clients. iv talked too a few guys on line but that's where it ends. they will contact me first show interest with daily emails instant messages and phone text. but if i mention going to dinner or the movies its bye bye joe end of the messages they move on. I met 2 really great guys over the last 2 weeks however both are clients and i think it would be unprofessional for me too ask them out. good way to loose a client imo, so i say nothing. oh and imo joey those guys on sites like Adam 4 Adam and manhunt will not meet they just want to set on line talk shit lol with no intentions of meeting. and if your looking for something more serious would you really want to date a guy from such sites? I think if i really set my mind to it and really wanted to date id join some sort of organization or do some sort of volunteer work in the gay community

[instudiocity]

Uh, we clients are INVESTED to use a government term for voting our dollars.

[+ friendofsheila]

I wish I knew the answer, JB. There are so many flakes out there.

 

I used to put stuff I wanted to give away up on something called "Freecycle," where a person can also list things they want for free.

 

You would not BELIEVE the number of rat-bags who could not follow simple instructions (like calling after 8 p.m.) or would not show up to pick up something I'm giving them for FREE.

 

So I agree with ISC: once people are invested in what they want (must pay for it), they manage to perform. Otherwise, they feel free to flake.

 

So sad.

[JoeyBryant]

oh and imo joey those guys on sites like Adam 4 Adam and manhunt will not meet they just want to set on line talk shit lol with no intentions of meeting.

 

Looking back over the years, I don't think I have ever met anyone off of adam4adam that has actually opened the door to new relationships (and I say that as a general statement including friends, etc.) They don't introduce you to friends, and matter of fact alot of the guys seem to be either misfits or outcasts living in their own world. The longest and probably best relationship I had was a guy back in Miami 2 years ago, we were at it for a couple months. We hit it off so well, but it just didn't work out.

 

But besides that, most times the relationships never lead up anywhere. Yet, I have met people at bars and clubs who became best friends and roommates. I'll admit their characters were a bit questionable and we are no longer friends today...but I met a guy at the bar 2 years ago. Thru him I met another guy who happened to know another guy who liked me. And we dated for a week while I was visiting Miami earlier this year lol. But atleast he treated me like a normal human being and not just some fly by night guy he met off the internet. And he happens to own land in Colorado

 

I know it sounds crazy coming from me but shit, I think trying to meet people online (other than for business purposes) has put my self-esteem on the line. I don't get the people I want to hit me up, and when it is someone hot, they flake. Its like, what the hell is wrong with me? Yet I go to a bar or club all of a sudden I'm attractive and people are nicer Of course, there are still flakes there no doubt, but the success is bigger offline...

 

once people are invested in what they want (must pay for it), they manage to perform. Otherwise, they feel free to flake.

 

So sad.

 

yep, men want the seemingly unattainable...but at some point the fantasy needs to become reality.

[dcguy20]

Joey, how disheartening to read your experience. I also realize that guys haven't changed all that much over the years either!! I have had a profile on Adam4Adam for about a year now. The flakiness of the guys in DC is an understatement. There are guys I chat with online, others brief conversations on the phone, and I've been on a few dates as well. My experience has been that the younger guys have been a lot more responsive and mature (they've hit me up) in comparison to guys my own age (mid 40s). Sites like A4A are akin to the bar scene with the exception that you're in the comfort of your own home. Same results though - BS. I did meet a guy in my neighborhood who I hang out with on occasion, but that's about it. It just goes to show that age and good looks does not make one immune from rude and inconsistent behavior by others.

 

I lived in NYC before moving to DC and I will say without a doubt that the guys in NYC are a lot friendlier than the guys in DC.

[josephga]

longest relationships iv had online was my first a guy i met on gay.com lasted 1 year then another i met on match .com lasted 3 years. manhunt and adam 4 adam isn't for dating its for fucking meet up get off then disregard. and that's if they will even bother too meet. I did meet a cute little 22 year old twink off grindr but that's been about it

[Samai139]

Joey--after reading your thoughts, questions, responses, I wish I were 40 years younger and could reach out and hope for first, a friendship and then? Who knows? But obviously age differences are important and I'm enough of a realist to know that fantasies don't come true. However, there are guys out here, there, somewhere, who will recognise what you are and what you have to offer. Don't give up---be positive and keep looking and hey, when you find him, let us know, OK?

Agree totally with your point about older men being more receptive to men of colour---and not just those who are way younger than they.

[bobchitown]

In real life I've just about given up on trying to schedule anything with anyone and actually expect them to show up and/or be ready for me. Repair people, doctor, dentist, meeting someone for lunch, needing some document completed by a certain date. Forget it. Either they sail in at least half an hour late with no apology or don't show up at all. Impossible.

[KMEM]

Real life is what it is all about, isn't it? I agree that all too many everyday folks, whether they be doctors, dentists, accountants, personal trainers or a whole host of "others" do not do what they promise. My only question is, do you do what you promised?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Diverdan]

Hey Joey,

For what it is worth, may I suggest that you look around to meet guys in places other than the bars or on line. How about volunteering for a social service agency that deals with gay issues? There are a lot of other clubs that are organized around special interests, sports, etc. that offer a chance to meet and make friends both gay and straight and often those meetings end up developing friendships and dating scenarios. I have several friends of varied racial and ethnic interests that I met in that way. A couple of them became "friends with benefits" over a long period of time, and one often traveled with me. I have never met anyone in a bar or on line that was more than a one or two time affair. Good luck and try looking in other places.

[JoeyBryant]

Don't give up---be positive and keep looking and hey, when you find him, let us know, OK?

 

Oh definitely. I always try to remain positive because I know there's always a steady flow of new people to meet. I met a guy in the bar the other day who was drinking water by himself. I walked up to him and introduced myself. At some point in the conversation, he says, "I just came here with my 1 friend (who I met later on). I don't like to meet or hangout with people because they always let me down/hurt me/take advantage etc. etc."

 

I could never be that way. There's people who have closed themselves off to the world because they think everyone is unreliable. But it's just not the case. Everyone has the same sort of fears and hurts and rejections...and once people understand that (and put it behind them), it makes it easier to connect with someone!

 

It just goes to show that age and good looks does not make one immune from rude and inconsistent behavior by others.

 

I lived in NYC before moving to DC and I will say without a doubt that the guys in NYC are a lot friendlier than the guys in DC.

 

I believe it. New York guys can hangout with just about anyone. I've met very few shady New Yorkers, and if they are..they probably only lived there til they were 12. Unfortunately I just don't come across many in this part of the country LOL. But, shade exists everywhere.

 

Looks and age certainly does not make 1 immune. The reason being is because people have all sorts of insecurities. That show with Wanda Sykes, New adventures of Old Christine is an example of it. Playing like they don't want this and that...but in reality they do but just don't want to put themselves on the line.

 

In real life I've just about given up on trying to schedule anything with anyone and actually expect them to show up and/or be ready for me. Repair people, doctor, dentist, meeting someone for lunch, needing some document completed by a certain date.

 

Those are excuses. And having to virtually run a business from home, who can be busier than that? What people really mean is that their not interested. For example, the guy I mentioned who always has an excuse not to meet on weekends...is actually trying to juggle someone else. Which is fine because It's not much of a stretch to fill my weekend up with someone else while he makes up his mind. I mean, it'd be the craziest excuse like, "oh I'm helping my friend put together an engine this weekend..." Really? So you're going to be working on the engine from Friday at 6 pm to 8 am Monday morning? Some mechanic...and I called him out on it too. He got flustered.

[JoeyBryant]

I think Daddy's lounge is the only 'lounge' I'll be lounging at after St. Patty's day for a while. I'm fucking fed up with the garbage that patronizes those places.

 

I go out with a guy last night who I met at a bar last week. He's been planning to see me all week. I went to his place, parked in the city garage ($7) and then he taxied us to a bar. Then, we taxied to another bar which I paid for ($10). Well, everything is fine from 8 pm to about 11 or 12 pm. Then we both go to the bathroom, get lost in the process. For 2 hours he's nowhere to be found. I text him. I called him. No response Thinking maybe he ran off for whatever reason, I kind of just took it as it is and moved on to chat with other people.

 

Well then, he walks past me later on that night...saying he lost me yadda yadda. But apparently never got my texts nor texted me. Apparently, he left to go to another bar and then came back with another guy. This other guy was trying to tell me that now he's his, and they are going home together. I explained that was not going to happen and also told my 'date' that he needs to take care of my ride back home if he so chooses to run off with someone else. Things got out of hand, and I ended up walking back to the parking garage with a group of guys/girls instead who just happened to live near it.

 

This was by far the most ridiculous date I've ever gone out on. I could not believe it was happening, as I thought I'd dealt with all situations. Nope.

 

That's why when people think only unattractive men hire escorts...they could not have been further from the the truth. Here I am a decent looking, attractive guy...and some guys still have the audacity to flake out in the most dirtiest way possible. Not saying that I am thinking or have thought about buying an escort, but I can see how $200 is a lot easier than dealing with some of the bull involved with meeting up with guys for a good time. I couldn't imagine spending more than I did that night and not get what I came for.

 

So, enough dates. Its back to the basics. Pay, pay pay. That's the only way to ensure things are 50/50

[nate_sf]

This was by far the most ridiculous date I've ever gone out on. I could not believe it was happening, as I thought I'd dealt with all situations. Nope.

 

That sure sucks! I remember once being on a date with a guy in a cafe, and the guy at the table next to us stated flirting with my date. And my date flirted back, right there with me sitting there! It was pretty much a loss right then and there. Better to cut your losses sooner than later, but it's still hard to believe people can be so rude.

[NYTomcat]

That sure sucks! I remember once being on a date with a guy in a cafe, and the guy at the table next to us stated flirting with my date. And my date flirted back, right there with me sitting there! It was pretty much a loss right then and there. Better to cut your losses sooner than later, but it's still hard to believe people can be so rude.

 

A note from the newly out.... wow this thread sucks ... honest and true ... but it still sucks. Funny how every single gay man seems to be looking for the ltr but they can't seem to stop shopping for a newer faster better model.

 

What the hell have I gotten myself into?

[JoeyBryant]

That sure sucks! I remember once being on a date with a guy in a cafe, and the guy at the table next to us stated flirting with my date. And my date flirted back, right there with me sitting there! It was pretty much a loss right then and there. Better to cut your losses sooner than later, but it's still hard to believe people can be so rude.

 

Oh, that has happened plenty of times too. I remember there was a time when stuff like this didn't happen. I was more concerned; "is he going to call back, will I want to see him again, will I have enough money for this date LOL". But it seems like I get dates around clubs and it's like I'm playing National Guard to fend off the other guys, or even worse...play babysitter to make sure he's not flirting off with someone.

 

I met a guy in Dallas who got upset at me because he thought I was 'holding him back from meeting someone new'. Well, you came here to meet me tonight...why can't you just be patient for 3 hours and enjoy it with me. And there's nothing wrong with talking and meeting someone new, just let them know you're with me. If you cannot do that, you're a creep.

 

The only way to make sense of all these shenanigans is this: I would never meet a client in a club. I have never met any clients in a club. My income is not even dependent on meeting clients in a club. There are extremely FEW clients in a club (well, maybe a few but they aren't going SPECIFICALLY to hire). So if I can't even find clients in a club... a place thats supposed to be about having fun, then I most certainly am not discouraged about not finding a boyfriend in a club.

[JoeyBryant]

Funny how every single gay man seems to be looking for the ltr but they can't seem to stop shopping for a newer faster better model.

 

I wouldn't quite say that's true the word 'every' but I would say many. The difference between clients and these jerks from the bars is that I believe for the most part clients in general are respectful to their partners. It's discreet. The guys I'm referring to have this blatant, in your face disrespect for their 'date'. It's selfish to say the least, to have such a small regard for someone you've made plans with.

 

From this point on, I will not be going out with a guy I like to a bar. If thats what they want to do I may have to re-think. Because most of them can't focus whats on their plate, being...the person who they came their with. I'm the hottest thing they've met and they beg to meet with me, until someone else comes along. Now, I can diffuse and re-direct attention...but I don't like having to do that everytime. And in normal public places, most men are not brave enough to flirt with my date in my face. Only in bars...

[nate_sf]

What the hell have I gotten myself into?

 

It's not all that bad :-) My losing my date in the cafe was fortunately one of the more extreme examples, and sounds like Joey has worse to tell. Fortanately there have been great dates too. But Joey you are right, it is best not to go to a bar with a date, it's just asking for trouble!

[raulgmanzo]

... in normal public places, most men are not brave enough to flirt with my date in my face. Only in bars...

 

Try thinking of flirting as a healthy fun social activity. I LOVE it when guys flirt with my date. Not if my date COMPLETELY ignores me of course. Thats rude. But sometimes you have to give the benefit of the doubt to your date. You really may have blinked or been looking the other way or not heard when he tried to include you in his flirtations or make it clear to the flirters that while flirting is delightful and fun, you and he are going home together.

 

Given that your are going home together, isn't it just a little bit fun (admit it) that so many guys wished they were going home with you, your date, or MAYBE both?

 

If I was flirting with your date, you can bet that I was hoping to play with both of you. What are bars for if not flirting (even just as a fantasy) and lurid (often polyamorous) activities? - Drinking? Drinking sometimes makes flirting and fucking difficult but desperate.

[raulgmanzo]

... it is best not to go to a bar with a date, it's just asking for trouble!

 

Some good places to take a date (especially one I was into one on one) would be:

A bike ride; odd lecture at an obscure museum; hike at the mountains, lake or ocean;

watching a pour at the steel mill by the river (one of the better venues indeed);

exploring a neighborhood or town that you've never been to; touring a CSA farm; or maybe

shopping at the shoemakers supply store for matching leather and heavy duty grommets to make stirrups for your sling.

 

And if you go to a restaurant? Avoid one that you've been to or that either of you know anything about. Seriously!

I think dates are fun when unexpected things happen. Plus if you find someone with whom you can laugh or who can

help you make lemonade out of lemons then you have a keeper.

[Rick Munroe]

Funny how every single gay man seems to be looking for the ltr but they can't seem to stop shopping for a newer faster better model. What the hell have I gotten myself into?

 

Sounds to me like you've gotten yourself into a LOGO reality show.

[JoeyBryant]

Try thinking of flirting as a healthy fun social activity. Given that your are going home together, isn't it just a little bit fun (admit it) that so many guys wished they were going home with you, your date, or MAYBE both?

 

If I was flirting with your date, you can bet that I was hoping to play with both of you. What are bars for if not flirting (even just as a fantasy) and lurid (often polyamorous) activities? - Drinking? Drinking sometimes makes flirting and fucking difficult but desperate.

 

It'd be great if the (bar) world was just based on wishing and fantasy and everyone stayed within their bounds. Unfortunately, it doesn't. People seem to get off on the fact that attention is being drawn away from whom they came with and onto them.

 

Its negligent; to say the least, to go on a date with someone to a bar who you've recently met and allow this seemingly innocuous flirting to go on. And next thing you know, they're going home with that person. What happened? Because the date wasn't assertive enough to mitigate the situation. Now, if we were dating for awhile...as in consistently over a period of time, then sure I would welcome the flirting. But men I've just met...there's been several times I've had to tell people, "look, he's with me okay. But have a nice night."

 

Last night...I had to get the situation under control by raising my voice because speaking quietly about it wasn't getting thru the other guy's head. But the security guard got all scared and felt the need to escort me out. It's like a man can't even be a man these days and raise his voice without someone completely unrelated interfering.

 

But for the most part, I just take that as a learning experience and move on. I take responsibility for even allowing it to get to that level. I should have dumped him the 1st night I met him when he was busy getting piss drunk on a weeknight. That guy is probably going to do that to every other guy too. That is, if he didn't learn from me that is not the way to do someone from the south. I'll be Black, Cuban, Puerto Rican and Dominican on them at the same time. Apparently these guys from Denver won't say anything when they get disrespected, but where I from that behavior does not slide.

 

Since that night, in a 24 hour period I've already connected with 3 other guys. So the only thing I lost was $17.

[nate_sf]

I should have dumped him the 1st night I met him when he was busy getting piss drunk on a weeknight.

 

I learned the hard way that someone getting piss ass drunk on a weeknight is a red flag. It's part of a pattern. Even if he's cute, it's not worth the inevitable heartbreak!

[nate_sf]

Some good places to take a date (especially one I was into one on one) would be:

A bike ride; odd lecture at an obscure museum; hike at the mountains, lake or ocean;

watching a pour at the steel mill by the river (one of the better venues indeed);

exploring a neighborhood or town that you've never been to; touring a CSA farm; or maybe

shopping at the shoemakers supply store for matching leather and heavy duty grommets to make stirrups for your sling.

 

And if you go to a restaurant? Avoid one that you've been to or that either of you know anything about. Seriously!

I think dates are fun when unexpected things happen. Plus if you find someone with whom you can laugh or who can

help you make lemonade out of lemons then you have a keeper.

 

I want to go on a date with Raul!