Sad but only too true!

[TopGuy4940]

OK guys...I'm in a bad place...Here's the story..met this guy on Manhunt three years ago...I wasn't his type but he agreed to escort for me.. We have been meeting about once/month for the last three years. I talked him into going to Venice and Greece on a cruise which we took two weeks ago. It was great...He is low maintenance and the body of death. I'm 62 and he's 45 but does have the hairy body of death...Had a great time with him..sex every day...we come back and now I'm missing him terribly and want to have a relationship with him...I can't discern where he's coming from but have to assume I'm not what he's looking for...meanwhile, I'm going out of my mind thinking about him frequently and that he's having sex with other people as he does seem to enjoy getting attention. I want to approach him and state that I want permission to pursue him as a potential partner...should I do that or not? I have had very few people in my life (due to traumatic experiences) that I have felt this way about. I have been in therapy for years so I have some sense of my issues...but is it possible for a relationship to develop out of this? Can Julia Roberts find Richard Gere?? I'm beside myself at this point and perhaps going away for a week with him was not such a good idea after all. HELP!!!

[Traveler North]

OK guys...I'm in a bad place...Here's the story..met this guy on Manhunt three years ago...I wasn't his type but he agreed to escort for me.. We have been meeting about once/month for the last three years. I talked him into going to Venice and Greece on a cruise which we took two weeks ago. It was great...He is low maintenance and the body of death. I'm 62 and he's 45 but does have the hairy body of death...Had a great time with him..sex every day...we come back and now I'm missing him terribly and want to have a relationship with him...I can't discern where he's coming from but have to assume I'm not what he's looking for...meanwhile, I'm going out of my mind thinking about him frequently and that he's having sex with other people as he does seem to enjoy getting attention. I want to approach him and state that I want permission to pursue him as a potential partner...should I do that or not? I have had very few people in my life (due to traumatic experiences) that I have felt this way about. I have been in therapy for years so I have some sense of my issues...but is it possible for a relationship to develop out of this? Can Julia Roberts find Richard Gere?? I'm beside myself at this point and perhaps going away for a week with him was not such a good idea after all. HELP!!!

 

Had a similar experience. Fell in love with an escort I saw regularly. Wanted to be with him always. Had to go to a psychlogist to help me deal with the issue. But I soon realized that, despite all the time we were together on trips, his friendship was based on the money I paid him. Also found he was subject to fits fo depression. Felt sorry for him still liked the guy but got over really loving him. Eventually the relationship ended altogether. I got over him and wnet on to bigger and better things. Best thing to do is to break off the relationship altogether, altleast thats my experience..

[Bart]

Dear Topguy:

If you want things to end badly then pursue your current plan of attack which is doomed for failure and you will feel worse.

Have some dignity friend and walk away. He made it clear to you day one that your relationship is based upon paid sex. He never led you on otherwise.

I am sorry to say that you need to walkaway immediately. The pain you will suffer when he says no will be far worse than you simply not calling on him again.

If he wanted to pursue the relationship he would not have charged you for the trip.

If you feel incapable of handling this alone than either talk to friend or seek help, dont suffer alone.

For now you can not see him for a long period of time if ever.

You would feel terrible if he goes to court and gets a restraining order for stalking.

Obsessions are difficult, very hard to deal with alone.

[NYTomcat]

Ok let me play devils advocate. Ok on some points only... I agree that telling him and pursuing him is a fools errand. If he is interested let him tell you. Which I fear is not going to happen.

 

However. Only you can decide what you can or cannot live with. So I have some questions for you I dont need the answers but you do :

 

1. Are you truly "in love" with him.

 

Sometimes we assume "in love" and we jump to this. Is it really the case or is he a companion who fills a void you have at the moment. Is he a friend you enjoy having sex with or would you not feel your life is complete unless you come home to him everyday?

 

2) you say you are jealous of him with others. .. is that insurmountable. Cause if so. Cut it off.

 

He escorts and has sex for pleasure and profit. This is who he his and part of what you must admire about him. Wanting him only for you is common. Look we are still apes in many respects. We want a harum for ourselves but we would beat to death any other males who looked at what we contemplate as ours. This isn't necessarily love but a simple natural defensive response. Maybe. Which is it for you. Can you get past it? Can you live with being one of the many who enjoy his company and get fulfillment from being with him the limited time you have together?

 

3) is his friendship and the joy of being with him enough if Thats all it ever is?

 

Can you find still a sense of fulfillment from just sharing these stolen moments. Or will you bankrupt yourself to have as much time as possible.

 

4) look down the road. ... can you Really imagine life with him day in and out.

 

Ok you love doing special things... cruising and vacations et al ... but can you see yourself doing his laundry. Having To hear his depression everyday. Would you really be able to stand one another everyday in the same home. Love would. But sometimes we dont see the forest for the trees. We are so enamored with the fun we dont really examine the rest of the woods.

 

Im not saying you should not try... if you are "in love" tell him but be prepared for the worst and prepared to walk away as the others have suggested if that is truly the case and he does not reciprocate your feelings. I disagree with the others That if you are "in love" it will be worse to never have tried. I personally would always have lingering doubt that would make the pain of simply walking away linger on... On the other hand... dont throw away a person you are close to,enjoy being with, have fun with, and who Otherwise fills a need for romantic companionship over your current feelings of enamourment That you are mistaking for Something more.

 

Take Some time.... search out your true feelings... and for gods sake dont become obsessed. . Take a few days away first. Then look back and see how you feel. Time heals all things. Even this. Just give yourself the distance to truly know your own feelings before you jump To Some overdramatic response.

 

Ok so maybe I've been down this road. So have the others who posted to you I am almost sure... none of us are right ... or wrong. Its simply what worked For us. Only you can know what will work for you. But you are right not to simply reinvent the wheel. You might as well choose what worked for others and try to adapt it to fit your particular situation. Thats part of the best of what this forum can offer.

[Jaker27]

I'm really confused here. If you aren't his type (according to you) then what would be his motivation to fall into a relationship with you. Why not just keep things where there at if you both are getting something out of it as it is. Why complicate it. Maybe you both can eventually be good friends.

 

PS. Pretty women is a good movie and a nice thought but is nothing more then a great fantasy that rarely if ever happens in real life. Why? Cuz no ones hotter then Richard Gere:)

[NYTomcat]

I'm really confused here. If you aren't his type (according to you) then what would be his motivation to fall into a relationship with you. Why not just keep things where there at if you both are getting something out of it as it is. Why complicate it. Maybe you both can eventually be good friends.

 

PS. Pretty women is a good movie and a nice thought but is nothing more then a great fantasy that rarely if ever happens in real life. Why? Cuz no ones hotter then Richard Gere:)

 

For an apprentice ... you are very astute. BINGO!!!!!

[+ azdr0710]

I like Jake's advice....keep seeing him once a month as something to look forward to....I'm sure he'll take your money in exchange!.....no profound revelations here, but you may be infatuated with him, not "in love"....I'm sure he is really, really fun to hang with, kick back with, have sex with, talk to, go on trips with, the whole bit......and, yeah, the "I'm not his type" thing is important to remember, right?.....

 

maybe it's not necessary, but if you're not busy with other things in your life, do get other things going for yourself...volunteer, join a group with interests you have, part-time work.....????

[TopGuy4940]

Thanks guys for your replies...NYTomcat...appreciate your thoughtful and lengthy response and I am more inclined to remain involved with him...To various points, I'm not sure I'm in love with him but probably reacting to the close and easy intimacy of the week on the cruise. I suspect that after three years, he sees me as a "friend with benefits" and that's all...I'm actively attempting to date and explore other options for the reasons many of you have stated.

 

Just to clarify, he's not a professional escort...he has indicated that he hasn't done this with anyone else and I have no reason to doubt that. He is gainfully employed, makes a good salary but what is true about him is that he likes to have sex.

 

I'm not concerned about obsessing about him to the extent that someone mentioned a restraining order!!LOL! I'll get through this but not sure how it will end up in the long run...possibly just a simple friendship when I decide to no longer pursue the sexual encounters with him. I see him about once a month and plan on doing so again near the end of November as per usual. I think I'll just see what happens rather than explaining where I'm coming from at the moment.

 

Thanks for your comments.

[+ Gar1eth]

Thanks guys for your replies...NYTomcat...appreciate your thoughtful and lengthy response and I am more inclined to remain involved with him...To various points, I'm not sure I'm in love with him but probably reacting to the close and easy intimacy of the week on the cruise. I suspect that after three years, he sees me as a "friend with benefits" and that's all...I'm actively attempting to date and explore other options for the reasons many of you have stated.

 

Just to clarify, he's not a professional escort...he has indicated that he hasn't done this with anyone else and I have no reason to doubt that. He is gainfully employed, makes a good salary but what is true about him is that he likes to have sex.

 

I'm not concerned about obsessing about him to the extent that someone mentioned a restraining order!!LOL! I'll get through this but not sure how it will end up in the long run...possibly just a simple friendship when I decide to no longer pursue the sexual encounters with him. I see him about once a month and plan on doing so again near the end of November as per usual. I think I'll just see what happens rather than explaining where I'm coming from at the moment.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Top-- if I can be so bold as to address you by your first name-- I think you are totally wrong. If you are already to the point where you can't stand to think about him having sex with other people, then I would have to say you are too involved. And the fact that you are planning to see him again because you think you'll just see how things will go, seems to me will only 'refuel' your feelings if they had started to fade somewhat by being apart.

 

I pretty much stopped seeing an escort-- not because I was in love so much ( well maybe a little)-- but because I just wanted him as a friend. Over time it just hurt me too much to be with him because I wanted a friend relationship and I knew he was really only there for the money. Now I am betting you will still plan to see your friend in November because my experience is that people really don't learn things like this without being hurt. I mean common sense would dictate not continuing the relationship. However whatever happens eventually, I wish you well.

 

Gman

[wayout]

Have you ever met him without sex and money being exchanged? If not, maybe you can test the waters of a possible friendship by suggesting you meet for just dinner or drinks, no sex, and to just talk with him being off the clock (that would need to be clear up front to avoid any misunderstandings). If he declines or reluctantly agrees then that would be an indication that it is only a transaction based relationship and he is not really interested in even a casual friendship at this point after seeing each other professionally for some time. I do realize this approach has its pitfalls and may even lead to a greater one sided attachment but at the risk of sounding cliche, nothing ventured nothing gained. Only do this if you are able to keep realistic expectations of what may happen. Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

 

You mentioned you have been in therapy for years. If you are still in therapy, have you considered discussing this with your therapist (if you believe that would be appropriate and possibly helpful).

[NYTomcat]

Top-- if I can be so bold as to address you by your first name-- I think you are totally wrong. If you are already to the point where you can't stand to think about him having sex with other people, then I would have to say you are too involved. And the fact that you are planning to see him again because you think you'll just see how things will go, seems to me will only 'refuel' your feelings if they had started to fade somewhat by being apart.

 

I pretty much stopped seeing an escort-- not because I was in love so much ( well maybe a little)-- but because I just wanted him as a friend. Over time it just hurt me too much to be with him because I wanted a friend relationship and I knew he was really only there for the money. Now I am betting you will still plan to see your friend in November because my experience is that people really don't learn things like this without being hurt. I mean common sense would dictate not continuing the relationship. However whatever happens eventually, I wish you well.

 

Gman

 

Im glad top seems to have his head on str8 ... well not too obsessed. Lol. I just wonder at a point you make here gman. Dont know the answer but we seem to differ on opinion. I wonder if we dont sometimes cut these things off too early thereby causing more self pain than curing

 

It seems in my personality maybe. That I most worry of the need to cut a thing off with an escort or privately when I am most feeling attached. Right at what seems the height of the attachment. Now maybe its me... but I often find that by simply taking a few weeks. Not hiring or seeing as often. My feelings cool and with distance I get perspective. Either to assure that it was just the heat and attachment from the recent encounter and not an overriding passion. I fear that sometimes. By denying ourselves. We lock in our heads that we have to flee from a perceived love and never really analyze the feelings. So that even if it was nothing more than a passing fancy or momentary daydream. We have now categorized it as a lost love and we will forever be haunted by the Guy we suffered unrequited love For. That we now flee feeling we need to protect ourselves because we are unloved or unlovable and that then reasonates in our heads everytime we feel we start to fall.escorts or Otherwise.

 

I firmly believe unless you are feeling obsessed with the man to a stalker level. That run quickly before you really get hurt answer is just a flight response and not necessarily a healthy one long term. We always quickly throw that out there to the many many many posters who become enamored with an escort and im really not sure its good advice at all in the long run. At least not for every sitch.

[Guest Spanky]

The truth hurts. You've already said that this guy rejected you once and does not want to see you unless you're paying him. So why are you expending all this physical, mental, emotional energy trying to figure out how to make something more happen when you already know it's impossible? By your own admission, you're obsessing about him, thinking about him having sex with other guys, and generally being miserable. If the guy wasn't attracted to you as a boyfriend before, why would he be now? The answer is he wouldn't. You need to just face that fact. Because otherwise, you're just setting yourself for a miserable let down - and the longer you delude yourself the harder that fall is going to be. You need to cut the cord with this guy. You think the truth hurts now? Just wait until you need to learn it a second time.

 

I hate to sound harsh because I know you're in a rough place. But you are headed for serious problems if you keep this up and it's going to be better for you to nip this now. From his perspective, it doesn't matter if you're in love with him or want to do your laundry with him - all that matters is that you are paying him. There will never be anything else. Deep down you already know - you need to face it.

[jgoo]

The truth hurts. You've already said that this guy rejected you once and does not want to see you unless you're paying him. So why are you expending all this physical, mental, emotional energy trying to figure out how to make something more happen when you already know it's impossible? By your own admission, you're obsessing about him, thinking about him having sex with other guys, and generally being miserable. If the guy wasn't attracted to you as a boyfriend before, why would he be now? The answer is he wouldn't. You need to just face that fact. Because otherwise, you're just setting yourself for a miserable let down - and the longer you delude yourself the harder that fall is going to be. You need to cut the cord with this guy. You think the truth hurts now? Just wait until you need to learn it a second time.

 

I hate to sound harsh because I know you're in a rough place. But you are headed for serious problems if you keep this up and it's going to be better for you to nip this now. From his perspective, it doesn't matter if you're in love with him or want to do your laundry with him - all that matters is that you are paying him. There will never be anything else. Deep down you already know - you need to face it.

 

While he was rejected once, it was before they even really met or got to know each other. Things have changed in one regard and that is they have spent time with one another. As they have been on extended vacation together I assume they have gotten to know each other on a deeper level. I am not trying to give him false hope that anything more exists than a business relationship from his viewpoint or that something can develop, but I don't think it is fair to say that just because he was rejected once means that he would be a second time now that there is a certain history and, hopefully, greater depth to their relationship.

 

Having said that however, I do feel that chances are slim that things will end well because if he was interested in anything at this point then one might expect him to say that payment wasn't necessary any longer. The best thing I believe he can do is to tread carefully and start a process of distancing him from this guy in a way that he can manage it. Some say rip the band aid off fast, while others prefer it is done slowly. Both work and he needs to find a way that works best for him.

[Bart]

I am sorry if I came off blunt and to the point but the reality is I was there. I was new to this like a kid in a candy store. Did not even realize what was happening, I was 40. I had only had my first experience with a man a year earlier. It was just suppose to be fuck buddies but I pushed long voice mails, sent flowers, dreams of bliss until the stop sign slammed me in the face. Again the guy was only in it for the sex. I saw stars and he saw release. When he said no bluntly and made it clear never to contact him again. It hurt like hell. Had not felt like that in 21 years and I remember that day, it was a girl. Since then as soon as I have that heart palpatation, I turn 180 degrees and walk away. I make sure to hire someone else who can fuck like crazy and push that feeling out of me.

 

Look if you are already bothered by him having sex with others, that is obsession. You have already opened the door to your heart and imagined a life. If you tell him you are not comfortable with him having sex with others he will bolt. But sometimes we need that jolt. I just dont think it is good to go on pretending there is going to be a life later.

 

Tomcat you are being sweet and sensative and that is why you are a friend to a lot of people. But, when we have moments of illusion we need a good Betty Davis slap across the face to wake up and smell the roses. Leave the tea and sympathy for later. I just wish someone had given me that some years ago. It is always better to look back that you broke it off rather than getting a call saying stay away from me.

[justaguy]

TopGuy,

If you're comfortable enough with yourself, comfortable enough to get hurt, I'd say roll the dice. Right now you're in a bad way because you know what your feelings but don't know his. That leaves everything solely in your head. Roll the dice and ask. If he lets you know that more is possible, you'll know how to proceed. If he declines, then you know where you stand and can make decisions based on that. But you have to be ready for the answer to be no. I hope you end up happy either way.

[NYTomcat]

I am sorry if I came off blunt and to the point but the reality is I was there. I was new to this like a kid in a candy store. Did not even realize what was happening, I was 40. I had only had my first experience with a man a year earlier. It was just suppose to be fuck buddies but I pushed long voice mails, sent flowers, dreams of bliss until the stop sign slammed me in the face. Again the guy was only in it for the sex. I saw stars and he saw release. When he said no bluntly and made it clear never to contact him again. It hurt like hell. Had not felt like that in 21 years and I remember that day, it was a girl. Since then as soon as I have that heart palpatation, I turn 180 degrees and walk away. I make sure to hire someone else who can fuck like crazy and push that feeling out of me.

 

Look if you are already bothered by him having sex with others, that is obsession. You have already opened the door to your heart and imagined a life. If you tell him you are not comfortable with him having sex with others he will bolt. But sometimes we need that jolt. I just dont think it is good to go on pretending there is going to be a life later.

 

Tomcat you are being sweet and sensative and that is why you are a friend to a lot of people. But, when we have moments of illusion we need a good Betty Davis slap across the face to wake up and smell the roses. Leave the tea and sympathy for later. I just wish someone had given me that some years ago. It is always better to look back that you broke it off rather than getting a call saying stay away from me.

 

Ok Bart love you as always

.. but I totally disagree with you

 

I was There too ... you know well.. and was Given That Bette Davis slap by alot of the forum members. I was referred to other escorts ... Told never to see him again. Blah blah. But we all process these things differently. Im not holding out false hope for top. Nor even being sympathatic. In fact my call to him is to wake up. Lets call it the frankly scarlett I dont give a Damn speech. But I also say you dont need to walk out the door and at times Thats more harmful than good.

 

Im not saying my way works for everyone. But im tired of hearing running is the only solution.... cause I know its not. First hand and I dont think im that unique an individual ... well I am actually. But not in this regard. So top. You have hieard our solutions. Use the advice well. Unfortunately we all agree that pursuing the private relationship is not likely and really a call he needs to make not you. The question is really what does that mean for how you need to proceed

 

I personally thought wayouts approach wasn't bad at all in fact... pretty good

 

Oh and Bart ...i get jealous of a lot of guys having sex with others but im far from obsessed. I think thats quite a leap . However. I will tell you top. Bart is one of the kindest and wisest men I know Here on the forum and believe me I dont give out platitudes to everyone. So take his warning seriously but I can say you may have options only you will know.

 

You know I missed a Good debate like this. Its like having lucky back to bicker with. Lol

[TopGuy4940]

WOW! Are you guys terrific or what!! Such helpful advice..don't agree with everything said but appreciate the care and concern expressed. Perhaps I need to be more specific about the guy. He appears to be the kind of guy who makes friends easily...not necessarily deeply, but easily. He still sees his ex lover and has sex with people as he likes. He has shared where he works and his home address and talks about his two daughters and has, on occasion, sent a thank you not and offered to take me to the airport. He has been the one to call more regularly when it's about the time we connect. Spending time with him on the cruise allowed both of us to get to know each other and we both felt we were both low maintenance and had a nice time. He did mention that we were in a relationship and for him relationships are like leases and can be negotiated in any way by both parties. I thought a somewhat odd way of viewing relationships but to some extent it fits the paradigm of him being my escort. But it also told me that he probably is open to negotiating whatever makes sense. That does not mean we would agree on every issue but I think he was expressing a sense of not having to have strict definitions. At one point a few months back he told me I was the longest relationship he had with a man since we've been seeing each other for three years. I think his former lover were together for 2 years and my guy is the one who left. What did I learn about him on the cruise? Well, that he masturbates about 3x a day, he needs 30 minutes to get ready in the morning, he likes to text and gets a lot of texts from friends, he likes to look good and has the body for it, he likes to workout and stay fit and we shared that together. He is somewhat intolerant of those who are not in shape and he finds it hard to stop working when he's away though, due to no internet access, he actually couldn't do any work for a week. He is somewhat of a neat freak. He also is considerate and kind.

 

I'm saying all of this simply to state that I suspect we could become friends over time and believe we have crossed that earlier on. He has slept over on occasion when we've had a session. To NYTomcat's point, I have no intention of ending this at the moment as I think this is/has been more about loss of companionship after a week as opposed to I'm madly in love. To the point that someone mentioned that he had said I was not his type...these were my words to him when I first inquired about seeing him socially and it was in the form of a statement I was making to propose paying him. I understand everyone's point that the odds are not very good that this could be more than escorting or possibly friendship but I also believe as Jgoo stated, that we have gotten to know each other over time and I don't think it's overstating to say that we are probably both fond of each other..which doesn't mean he's in love with me...I'm willing to stay at this a little longer until things settle in my mind either through my own intuition and choice or through various conversations with him that may shed light on what's possible. For now, I'm going away on bs. travel on Wednesday till the 11th so will be away from him and contact. When I come back I assume he will probably contact me to connect again. We'll just have to wait and see where this goes, if anywhere. Thanks again guys for your insights.

[NYTomcat]

Negotiating a lease... Hahaha. I love it.

 

Sounds like he's got a Great sense of humor and a healthy attitude and so do you. Now take a few days to fan out the fog of his constant contact for the cruise and then enjoy the hell out of one another. Your not a drama queen Just get over the hollywoodized romantic dreams and see what happens. And stop worrying about him with others. Think of It as good training for your next time together. Hell go find someone to give you a little training too.

 

Seriously have fun and enjoy each other and stop trying to squeeze him or you in Some socially approved box.

 

Truly thats what life is about. Enjoying the company of others in every aspect as much as possible. May I be doing it as long as some of the gentlemen here.

[Michael Wayne]

Alot of times this is actually how an escort retires into a sugar daddy or kept boy (man in his case) situation. find out his exact monthly income level and compensate him accordingly . I know alot of escorts who would love this type of arrangement. Then, over the years, with enough time spent together a real relationship can develop. While he may not be attracted to you ( in that way) he obviously really likes you as a person and a friend to travel so extensively with you. The issue he has is loss of income so let him know that he will not lose any income. Also, allow him to play a little with guys who are his type as long as he puts you first. Then he will feel free and less confined. As he ages he will become more monogamous with you. Just my thoughts from alot of experience with clients who have fallen in love with me over the years.

[TopGuy4940]

Would it be beyond the pale to call this site a "blessing"...OMG...Mikey9nola and NYTomcat and others have given me so much...I hadn't thought of the idea that you suggested Mikey9nola...and it's a great one...I'm not sure what will happen and I promise to keep you all posted but what I can say is that it's nice to feel like you have a community of people willing to state their opinions in order to be helpful...I'm more at peace with this than I was when I first wrote...perspective is important and you have all helped me to gain that...Thanks guys!!!

[+ bigjoey]

When I was one-and-twenty

I heard a wise man say,

"Give crowns and pounds and guineas

But not your heart away;

Give pearls away and rubies

But keep your fancy free."

But I was one-and-twenty,

No use to talk to me.

 

When I was one-and-twenty

I heard him say again,

"The heart out of the bosom

Was never given in vain;

'tis paid with sighs a plenty

And sold for endless rue."

And I am two-and-twenty,

And, oh, 'tis true, 'tis true.

 

AE Housman's A Shropshire Lad

He was gay and maybe meant this for his fellow gay men.

[+ nycman]

One word....run!