Unexpected, not suprising, underhanded, cleverly protected by a well crafted persona

[+ ArVaGuy]

I suggest moving on from this issue. No one really appears to be adding anything new or interesting to the thread- Including me

 

Well said.

 

Now it just might be helpful to lock this thread and let it sink to the bottom. That's the only way this issue is going to die it's more than well deserved death. Though there are many here who love to play the "let's you and him fight" game for their own selfish voyeuristic entertainment.

[+ Charlie]

I can't believe I'm entering this thread, but I am reckless, so here goes.

 

I don't know NYTomcat other than from his posts and a few PMs we have exchanged since he first came on the board, when I liked a lot of things he had to say, and I thought I could tell him some things that would be useful to him; he expressed his thanks nicely, both publicly and privately. I have never responded to any of Ryan's posts, because from the beginning, I murmured to myself, "Uh, oh, unstable drama queen." I have seen nothing in this thread to change my opinion. Another Devon? Perhaps.

 

Several years ago, I hired an escort who posted frequently on the board then, and I gave him what I thought was a fairly positive review, more positive in fact than was probably warranted, because he was new and I wanted him to be successful. He responded by badgering me on the board, because the review wasn't as super positive as he wanted it to be (another regular poster told me he had the same experience with him). At that point, I regretted having told him my board identity in the first place, and now if I hire someone from here, I do not tell him I am a poster, and I use a different handle for the review.

 

Giving an honest, objective review of an escort, who makes it clear that he wants you to promote him, is as difficult as writing a review of a book by a friend.

[BewareofNick]

I knew even before Ryan’s most recent thread that he had two distinct personalities. One personality was oozing with charm while the other was a meanspirited and unpleasant volatile individual.

 

Use the computer function on this forum and locate and read many of Ryan’s posts. It won't take a bright person long to see through the insincere/charming/angry composition of Ryan’s personality and see the inconsistencies of his anger and charm and his anger swinging back and forth.

 

The thread he authored today wherein he attacked and betrayed NYTomcat is but one strong example of the type of person Ryan has shown himself to be.

 

Ryan made two inappropriate attacks at me in the past. One of Ryan’s attacks was in connection with my posting a harmless comment about my wondering why another member of this site answered some questions that I had directed to the originator of a particular thread.

 

Ryan went "over the top" and excoriated me over my comment. His anger and outburst came out of the blue. His outburst over something so trivial demonstrated that Ryan has little control over his emotions and behavior.

 

Ryan's outburst also indicates that he could potentially be a dangerous person if he became angry in your presence rather than over this site.

 

From time-to-time I noticed Ryan had similar unprovoked outbursts with other posters over minor issues. Then, he would return and resume the charm by posting another insincere post which many members of this forum apparently believed.

 

Ryan’s authoring his latest pathetic betrayal of a client (NYTomcat) who befriended him reinforces my belief that Ryan is insincere and is someone to avoid.

 

It is my impression that Ryan has some very serious mental problems that cause him to write the things he writes.

 

Are you a mental health professional? I am curious how you arrived at this "diagnosis" since I'm going to bet you are not. As much as this is a thread for potential clients to read and evaluate before hiring Ryan, it is also a thread for escorts to read before accepting Tomcat as a client.

[OneFinger]

Originally Posted by ArVaGuy Do any of the old timers here get a sense of déjà vu regarding this situation with Ryan? At the risk of being branded as part of the cabal, Ryan’s behavior of the last several weeks reminds me of Devon from San Francisco circa 2003/2004.

 

Uncanny. That very thought has been going through my head for some days now.

 

The Devon melt-down has also been on my mind as I've visited this site.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree that this is probably one of the few posts that deserved to be closed before it further divides our small community.

[NYTomcat]

The Devon melt-down has also been on my mind as I've visited this site.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree that this is probably one of the few posts that deserved to be closed before it further divides our small community.

 

I appreciate the worry about dividing our small community. but i don't think anyone here should take this thread as any reason to go to war with any other groups on the forum. Ryan has stated his reasons why he feels that i betrayed him. I have stated mine. I'm very comfortable with the choices and decisions i've made as ryan seems quite comfortable with his. Perhaps knowing what we know now we would have chosen not to meet. Though i feel that would have been a mistake as well given that I had a good time during our meeting. More importanly i have enjoyed getting to know ryan over the months that preceded that meeting. It is a shame it has devolved into this. But it's a personal disagreement. Certainly not something that any other posters should take as a rallying cry to split our community. We have all seen this forum weather a lot worse.

 

That said i do always appreciate that We be wary of such threads that could cause major Battles

 

I just don't think this is one of them.

 

Certainly nick I agree that any escort who reads this And does not want to meet with me because of it Is more than welcome to say no. In any event i'm not sure where this thread offers anything more than prurient interest at this point. But i can always be surprised where these things will end.

[Guest socal30]

I am not sure I understand the reasoning behind this thread, but it has been interesting !

[orbital sander]

I am not sure I understand the reasoning behind this thread, but it has been interesting !

 

I would tend to say revealing more than interesting. However, the OP has revealed himself previously in other threads...

[Guest RyanCade]

I wont go into too much about this very chaotic thread

I also do not want to be drawn into hearsay conversations

FOR THE RECORD

as I review my text messages to tomcat about his post on writing a difficult review I see that I only suggested that "IF" he wrote a review about the encounter to write about his experience as it may help another person that has the same issue. not about how great of a job i did.

I certainly dont think I begged nor even asked for a review when I saw Tomcat my main reason for advising him was because he asked for assistance publicly.

I actually dont really enjoy being reviewed to be honest.

I think Ryan your OP could have been much better written and kept it about yourself raking TC over the coals because you feel like you were mislead is why I dont ever want to know if anyone that hires me posts here or not and more importantly I dont want to know their user name on the mc.

I know the private message machine drama is out there I have seen the PM's by clients that felt obligated to show me the rumor that was floating around about me etc etc. Painful ??? You bet. Damaging ?? who knows. I think its important to remember that there is a huge world out there and this community is a small one a very important part of a support system like no other for escorts and clients alike. as with any place in the world its filled with humans that are ..... HUMAN and we all have to find ways to meet and move through and live the best way we can.

So if you enjoy the support and family you have found here then find ways to communicate constructively. dont alienate others and although I think you have a message here in your post I also think you can best express it one on one. Its what a friend would do.

If I have behaved in a way that shines poorly in my own integrity you can believe that a good friend is going to say David your being an ass.

 

move on and shine and be who you are and live the example you want to see in others.

Use the 24 hour rule and try picking up the phone and call around and ask for advise once in a while

xo David

 

 

David what I haven't shared is that is that after tom cat and I met, I have booked one appointment. I have a few regulars who help me out pretty regular, but with tomcats silence came a very uncomfortable silence on the board as well. I have nothing to lose really.

 

When Tom behaved the way he did, I had alot of time to consider what had actually taken place and evaluate the things he said during our visit. After which it was clear tom is not a fair player, my client in Tennessee is not a fair player either, and warned me of the private message notifications and surely he has participated in them. There are many on the board who have given me the troll treatment for awhile. The denial and protection of this ridiculous unfair and badly abused tactic is frightening. I have no remorse for exposing it in the raw form of my OP. and still the hyenas huddle and feed.. I have already been affected many times by the lash of the gold wielding tyrants and their immature trash talk. I will make every effort to continue broadcasting against the the despicable behavior of the ill mannered misfits. They can label me whatever they want. I said I would stand my ground from the beginning and have done so, I will remain as there are people here with character and virtue and those people deserve to have someone sounding an alarm on the intentional distortion that has apparently been the demise of many "insubordinate" "uncooperative" escorts. Tom is a willing participant of this behavior by his own admission..

[MiamiLooker]

When Tom behaved the way he did, I had alot of time to consider what had actually taken place and evaluate the things he said during our visit. After which it was clear tom is not a fair player, my client in Tennessee is not a fair player either, and warned me of the private message notifications and surely he has participated in them. ..

 

What does the private message notification function have to do with any of this?

[+ ArVaGuy]

When Tom behaved the way he did, I had alot of time to consider what had actually taken place and evaluate the things he said during our visit. After which it was clear tom is not a fair player, my client in Tennessee is not a fair player either, and warned me of the private message notifications and surely he has participated in them. ..

 

 

 

Well since the public meltdown is going to continue, Ryan how about you reveal the Tennessee client who is, as you claim, "not a fair player"? If the PM system is being abused then management here needs to know about it and possibly disable the function.

 

If, as you allege, other clients are not being straight forward then reveal the details of your experience with those less than fair players. I see no valid reason for Tom to receive the brunt of your abuse if now there are others on this board that’ve hired you and not treated you well. Who is this other client who done you wrong? Inquiring, prurient minds want to know.

[Scorpio]

What does the private message notification function have to do with any of this?

 

Apparently (as I understand RC's postings) there is vast cabal of posters that use the private messaging function to both promote their 'favored' escorts and to undermine the "unfavored" escorts. Apparently it is unfair for members to discuss their hires in private with other members. Although as long as I've been here, I've never received any of these so called messages telling me I can only hire escort X over escort Y.

 

But then again MiamiLooker, I guess you and I may be part of this cabal. As I seem to recall that over the years, you and I have (on very, very rare ocassions) had discussions in private about certain escorts here in South Florida.

[NYTomcat]

David what I haven't shared is that is that after tom cat and I met, I have booked one appointment. I have a few regulars who help me out pretty regular, but with tomcats silence came a very uncomfortable silence on the board as well. I have nothing to lose really.

When Tom behaved the way he did, I had alot of time to consider what had actually taken place and evaluate the things he said during our visit. After which it was clear tom is not a fair player, my client in Tennessee is not a fair player either, and warned me of the private message notifications and surely he has participated in them. There are many on the board who have given me the troll treatment for awhile. The denial and protection of this ridiculous unfair and badly abused tactic is frightening. I have no remorse for exposing it in the raw form of my OP. and still the hyenas huddle and feed.. I have already been affected many times by the lash of the gold wielding tyrants and their immature trash talk. I will make every effort to continue broadcasting against the the despicable behavior of the ill mannered misfits. They can label me whatever they want. I said I would stand my ground from the beginning and have done so, I will remain as there are people here with character and virtue and those people deserve to have someone sounding an alarm on the intentional distortion that has apparently been the demise of many "insubordinate" "uncooperative" escorts. Tom is a willing participant of this behavior by his own admission..

 

Ok Ryan this is enough. I am not the leader of some Illuminati style hit group out for you. In fact the only email of pm I made about you was to my friend on Illinois who was your next hire. On my recommendation of you. Ryan seriously. This has gone far enough. Check My posts. I have prior to this thread done nothing but support you, be your friend, defend you from attacks, and try to market you to others in an attempt to help you. Im Sorry if I screwed up submitting the review and was a little delayed in filing it. But I did not deserve this

I could care less that people know anything said here. Im not embarrassed by this at all. But im hurt By a man I considered a friend.

[Guest socal30]

David what I haven't shared is that is that after tom cat and I met, I have booked one appointment. I have a few regulars who help me out pretty regular, but with tomcats silence came a very uncomfortable silence on the board as well. I have nothing to lose really.

 

When Tom behaved the way he did, I had alot of time to consider what had actually taken place and evaluate the things he said during our visit. After which it was clear tom is not a fair player, my client in Tennessee is not a fair player either, and warned me of the private message notifications and surely he has participated in them. There are many on the board who have given me the troll treatment for awhile. The denial and protection of this ridiculous unfair and badly abused tactic is frightening. I have no remorse for exposing it in the raw form of my OP. and still the hyenas huddle and feed.. I have already been affected many times by the lash of the gold wielding tyrants and their immature trash talk. I will make every effort to continue broadcasting against the the despicable behavior of the ill mannered misfits. They can label me whatever they want. I said I would stand my ground from the beginning and have done so, I will remain as there are people here with character and virtue and those people deserve to have someone sounding an alarm on the intentional distortion that has apparently been the demise of many "insubordinate" "uncooperative" escorts. Tom is a willing participant of this behavior by his own admission..

 

Ok you had a nice session and the client agreed to review you. For whatever reason, it didn't happen. This justify's all this? I am just getting wet in the land of escorting-hiring side. But really from a business perspective, do not understand this meltdown-unless as in prior posts you said you were thinking of offering a pure emotional/spiritual only companionship? Maybe a subconscious way of making sure that will happen?

[Guest RyanCade]

I knew even before Ryan’s most recent thread that he had two distinct personalities. One personality was oozing with charm while the other was a meanspirited and unpleasant volatile individual.

 

Use the computer function on this forum and locate and read many of Ryan’s posts. It won't take a bright person long to see through the insincere/charming/angry composition of Ryan’s personality and see the inconsistencies of his anger and charm and his anger swinging back and forth.

 

The thread he authored today wherein he attacked and betrayed NYTomcat is but one strong example of the type of person Ryan has shown himself to be.

 

Ryan made two inappropriate attacks at me in the past. One of Ryan’s attacks was in connection with my posting a harmless comment about my wondering why another member of this site answered some questions that I had directed to the originator of a particular thread.

 

Ryan went "over the top" and excoriated me over my comment. His anger and outburst came out of the blue. His outburst over something so trivial demonstrated that Ryan has little control over his emotions and behavior.

 

Ryan's outburst also indicates that he could potentially be a dangerous person if he became angry in your presence rather than over this site.

 

From time-to-time I noticed Ryan had similar unprovoked outbursts with other posters over minor issues. Then, he would return and resume the charm by posting another insincere post which many members of this forum apparently believed.

 

Ryan’s authoring his latest pathetic betrayal of a client (NYTomcat) who befriended him reinforces my belief that Ryan is insincere and is someone to avoid.

 

It is my impression that Ryan has some very serious mental problems that cause him to write the things he writes.

 

imrthr I am not sure your posting history reflects the intellect, maturity or mental stability to point out any strong examples. What exactly do you call your "outburst" attacking greatness for his innocent attempt to contribute. who made you the MONITOR of who can post answers to questions posted on in an open forum, no matter who they are directed to? Don't you see the thicket of briars.. That is a strong example of how you're always missing the boat. I found a number of labels and disorders you fit the bill for when reviewing your thoughtless, insensitive, inaccurate, presumptuous, elementary, posts. You truly are the poster child for the hat club. The fabric of your character is shot through bitter distasteful and abrasive notable defects.

[+ David-SF]

WELL here we go

 

I support you Ryan in wanting to expose posters on the MC that have some how violated your trust or profession and threaten you with a bad review and steal money from you.

I support you wanting it to be known that you are a really good provider.

I support you wanting to get the air clear in your own mind about the character of a client that has hired you before in the past.

I support you wearing your emotions on your sleeve and expressing your fears and insecurities in public it makes you human.

 

If you think Ryan is nuts well your going to have to think I am nuts right beside him.

I have spent the past 2 nights in PARIS having some really sleepless nights going over this thread and its many sides in my own mind.

 

Ryan you dug a hole long ago and its going to be hard to get out of it but I read your post a few times and the posting of many others and I have so much I could say.

 

I will not be keeping this short. But it is the last thing I will say in this thread period.

 

Its my job to see men from all walks of life many tell me stories about great fame a fortune and high powered lives and I suspect they go home to a place much different then the fantasy they shared with me in the room. Would I ever if I knew I could, run up to that person in public and say “hey you said you were a banker why are you working in a 711 store. ………..NO !!!!!!!!!! its none of my business.

 

Ryan that’s what I took from reading your post and I clearly knew it was Tomcat you were referring to

 

On the other subject

 

I have had many appts with clients that have told me things about other escorts that did not shine a good light on them only to find out later that there were 2 sometimes 3 sides to that story too.

 

I have worked with an escort who is slammed as a senor citizen on this very board and have been using the same pics for years.

Everyone screams about what a horrible fraud is being committed by an escort that uses the same picture and must be at least 967 years old by now. But I walked into the room only to find a beautiful man that looked better than his pictures and was hot hot hot in the session with a client that was fun and wonderful to be with.

 

So yes everyone has a different perception and experience tales are told and written in the way that they seem true or sound better to each individual and regurgitated and redefined in ways that make for interesting conversation from time to time.

Do I think it is right ??? NOPE ! Am I guilty of the same behavior I suppose so in some random way.

I never want to look bad to anyone because I want to be well liked and appreciated but I think most people try to be honest as possible.

 

I have to ask myself do I want to be right or do I want to be happy

 

Do I care if others may feel badly if I say something that calls them on the carpet about an infraction committed in a session with me post or pre. YOU BET I DO.

 

So while your very sensitive post has many feeling that you are violating trust and being nuts I find it some what interesting that you think its ok to do such a thing. I dont think its ok especially if you have not vetted the situation completely outside of your own head and heart.

 

I think as I said before when I was being an ass according to PK.

a phone can sometimes be a better friend than this MC.

You gain nothing by standing up for what you think is right because of some virtue you have installed upon yourself to be the truth teller of the escort adventure.

 

Most of our work is connected to fun frolic and fantasy and the adventure has only just begun allow it to take place in a way that you don’t need to have to have justice in every minute of what you do.

Enjoy your life and stay connected to the experience that you can share with others.

 

If your experience with one person seems to render some confusion get clarity from that person or find it in yourself to move on.

NO ONE CAN DESTROY YOUR BUSINESS. But you.

 

I find it amazing that we think that if someone says something negative about us that its going to adversely affect our business. In fact it sometimes helps it. It allows us to bring on a game changer. improve and do a better job by proving the naysayers wrong.

 

The wolves will always be there and they come in all kinds of ways some seem to be your closest friend or a good buddy only to find out that they have been eating the food in the emergency storage for months and when the storm comes who is left holding the empty cellar ??? You are. In other words the sad fact that I have recently learned is you have to look after yourself 1st in order to look after the cellar and remind the hungry friend that if he eats the food now there will be nothing left when we really need it.

 

Yeah I know you all think I have lost my mind do I care ??? ………… just a little.

 

I guess another point that I want to express here is it may be high time we all took a look at our gossiping and story telling behavior and where are we in that venue? is it our experience or the chemistry got the best of an encounter that we feel the need to send out a news bulletin that this escort sucks in a bad way and this one is the best escort since sliced bread. Even if we have had a less than stellar encounter with him.

 

Should we be promoting anyone when in fact everyone has a different experience period.

 

WELL YES THAT’S WHAT THIS PLACE DOES along with many other benefits and consequences.

 

I think its just fine and the private message system is there and always has been and everyone will do and say what ever they want while using it I certainly do and expect to be able to that’s why it’s a private message system ……ITS PRIVATE !!

 

I have heard and I wish I could find the 10,000 threads where any number of posters says

Thank you for the PM and emails in support of my recent issue with X person/ topic

 

Its way more important to just be who you are and you will win every time.

 

Promoting demoting reviewing and the hoopla that surrounds the popular guys is a double edge sword its great its fun but it can turn on you. None of this is to be taken so seriously that it makes or breaks our integrity but it is a matter of living a life that we can say to ourselves ok I can live with this I accept this and I need to move on from this because its not useful for me to be involved in it.

I think my time on this MC is surely trending outward toward other avenues lots goes on here that I actually believe is toxic for me personally.

 

This thread is a very good example of the level of toxicity that can keep me awake at night in a beautiful city in Europe when I should be at suncity basking in the pool with 300 French men

 

So I will sit the rest of this out and let this post be a sort of food for thought if you have gotten this far I am very sorry lots on my mind and now its cleared

Ryan good luck to you in you adventure please note the majority of people here probably would rather have you be happy than right

Including me

Xo David

[+ Axiom2001]

It's bizarre how an innocent request for assistance from a client turned into all of the preceding dialogue. Damn! Seemingly, it has never failed that since I've been coming to this site and forum that a huge dispute and a lot of "tit-for-tat" occurs during August or in the summer months anyway! Come on, go to the beach and get some fresh air and sun, and try to put all of the above to rest.

 

Too bad that the initial poster felt that he had had his feelings hurt to the point that he had to begin this tirade!

 

I'm now glad that I did not offer any advice, and I know I will Not write anything regarding the initial content of the thread! This man is smiling as well as being perplexed!

[Diverdan]

David,

Thanks for your comments. You have a unique perspective as always, and I appreciate the thoughts and concerns that you expressed. I had promised myself that I would not read or respond a long time ago to this thread, but my curiosity got the best of me this afternoon, as I had a bunch of free time on my hands. I am glad I opened this one more time so that I could see your post.

 

Enjoy Paris... I wish I were there with you... French guys have some unique and wonderful talents to share with us in the USA. I am sure you are finding a lot of clients who appreciate your talents as well.

 

Thanks again, and I am going to try hard not to open this thread again.

 

Dan

[Guest Wetnwildbear]

David you are . . .

 

A lovely and caring man - Now STOP READING THIS THREAD and immerse yourself in Paris!

 

 

I support you Ryan in wanting to expose posters on the MC that have some how violated your trust or profession and threaten you with a bad review and steal money from you.

I support you wanting it to be known that you are a really good provider.

I support you wanting to get the air clear in your own mind about the character of a client that has hired you before in the past.

I support you wearing your emotions on your sleeve and expressing your fears and insecurities in public it makes you human.

 

If you think Ryan is nuts well your going to have to think I am nuts right beside him.

I have spent the past 2 nights in PARIS having some really sleepless nights going over this thread and its many sides in my own mind.

 

Ryan you dug a hole long ago and its going to be hard to get out of it but I read your post a few times and the posting of many others and I have so much I could say.

 

I will not be keeping this short. But it is the last thing I will say in this thread period.

 

Its my job to see men from all walks of life many tell me stories about great fame a fortune and high powered lives and I suspect they go home to a place much different then the fantasy they shared with me in the room. Would I ever if I knew I could, run up to that person in public and say “hey you said you were a banker why are you working in a 711 store. ………..NO !!!!!!!!!! its none of my business.

 

Ryan that’s what I took from reading your post and I clearly knew it was Tomcat you were referring to

 

On the other subject

 

I have had many appts with clients that have told me things about other escorts that did not shine a good light on them only to find out later that there were 2 sometimes 3 sides to that story too.

 

I have worked with an escort who is slammed as a senor citizen on this very board and have been using the same pics for years.

Everyone screams about what a horrible fraud is being committed by an escort that uses the same picture and must be at least 967 years old by now. But I walked into the room only to find a beautiful man that looked better than his pictures and was hot hot hot in the session with a client that was fun and wonderful to be with.

 

So yes everyone has a different perception and experience tales are told and written in the way that they seem true or sound better to each individual and regurgitated and redefined in ways that make for interesting conversation from time to time.

Do I think it is right ??? NOPE ! Am I guilty of the same behavior I suppose so in some random way.

I never want to look bad to anyone because I want to be well liked and appreciated but I think most people try to be honest as possible.

 

I have to ask myself do I want to be right or do I want to be happy

 

Do I care if others may feel badly if I say something that calls them on the carpet about an infraction committed in a session with me post or pre. YOU BET I DO.

 

So while your very sensitive post has many feeling that you are violating trust and being nuts I find it some what interesting that you think its ok to do such a thing. I dont think its ok especially if you have not vetted the situation completely outside of your own head and heart.

 

I think as I said before when I was being an ass according to PK.

a phone can sometimes be a better friend than this MC.

You gain nothing by standing up for what you think is right because of some virtue you have installed upon yourself to be the truth teller of the escort adventure.

 

Most of our work is connected to fun frolic and fantasy and the adventure has only just begun allow it to take place in a way that you don’t need to have to have justice in every minute of what you do.

Enjoy your life and stay connected to the experience that you can share with others.

 

If your experience with one person seems to render some confusion get clarity from that person or find it in yourself to move on.

NO ONE CAN DESTROY YOUR BUSINESS. But you.

 

I find it amazing that we think that if someone says something negative about us that its going to adversely affect our business. In fact it sometimes helps it. It allows us to bring on a game changer. improve and do a better job by proving the naysayers wrong.

 

The wolves will always be there and they come in all kinds of ways some seem to be your closest friend or a good buddy only to find out that they have been eating the food in the emergency storage for months and when the storm comes who is left holding the empty cellar ??? You are. In other words the sad fact that I have recently learned is you have to look after yourself 1st in order to look after the cellar and remind the hungry friend that if he eats the food now there will be nothing left when we really need it.

 

Yeah I know you all think I have lost my mind do I care ??? ………… just a little.

 

I guess another point that I want to express here is it may be high time we all took a look at our gossiping and story telling behavior and where are we in that venue? is it our experience or the chemistry got the best of an encounter that we feel the need to send out a news bulletin that this escort sucks in a bad way and this one is the best escort since sliced bread. Even if we have had a less than stellar encounter with him.

 

Should we be promoting anyone when in fact everyone has a different experience period.

 

WELL YES THAT’S WHAT THIS PLACE DOES along with many other benefits and consequences.

 

I think its just fine and the private message system is there and always has been and everyone will do and say what ever they want while using it I certainly do and expect to be able to that’s why it’s a private message system ……ITS PRIVATE !!

 

I have heard and I wish I could find the 10,000 threads where any number of posters says

Thank you for the PM and emails in support of my recent issue with X person/ topic

 

Its way more important to just be who you are and you will win every time.

 

Promoting demoting reviewing and the hoopla that surrounds the popular guys is a double edge sword its great its fun but it can turn on you. None of this is to be taken so seriously that it makes or breaks our integrity but it is a matter of living a life that we can say to ourselves ok I can live with this I accept this and I need to move on from this because its not useful for me to be involved in it.

I think my time on this MC is surely trending outward toward other avenues lots goes on here that I actually believe is toxic for me personally.

 

This thread is a very good example of the level of toxicity that can keep me awake at night in a beautiful city in Europe when I should be at suncity basking in the pool with 300 French men

 

So I will sit the rest of this out and let this post be a sort of food for thought if you have gotten this far I am very sorry lots on my mind and now its cleared

Ryan good luck to you in you adventure please note the majority of people here probably would rather have you be happy than right

Including me

Xo David

[Okliehomo]

Tried my best to stay out of this.... but...

 

What a cluster fuck and not in a good way.

 

Upon originally reading the post, I knew he was talking about TomCat, too. No secret that TC is new to this and that when he falls, he falls. Not judging... mistakes we have all made at the beginning and as I have confessed to myself, many times.... (Ridge, Jim Slade, Kent Larsen... MARCO, MARCO, MARCO!!! still to this day, MARCO!!!) ... letting the lines get blurred... going out for a boyfriend experience when what you really want, deep down, is a boyfriend. Guilty as Hell, back then...

 

I think in this case lines got blurred by both parties.... too many emails, too many phone calls, too many texts, too much involvement in each other's real lives, because boys, this really ain't real... it's business and to let it become anything else is a slippery slope that usually leads to a thread like this one.... been there, too.

 

I can understand the escort's disappointment that a promised review didn't happen... especially when apparently he believed that the client held such sway in these parts that a review from him would give him the keys to the kingdom... so much so, that even the great and powerful David would "beg" for such an endorsement... ( sidebar: I have met David, once or twice...maybe... who remembers?.... but I know for a fact that even the very first time that I met him, when he was only on the precipice of great and powerful, the man never even mentioned the word "review" to me...) because, no client has that much power... (ok, maybe Geffen..... who I suspect is really Frank Whitacker, that lucky bastard that still gets Todd Dillon..).... to make an escort's phone stop ringing by not mentioning him here....

 

Have to say, though, that this has been the most pertinent post in a long, long time. At least, it involved what really can happen between us.... if we are not careful.

 

Best to all involved... mostly, to best... who I miss hearing from.... how are we supposed to run this gay mafia without you, dammit? Private me!

 

Okie

[Boston Guy]

Wow!

 

I've been away from the Message Center for a bit. I just decided to check in and see what was going on and found this thread and read it all through -- twice. My first and most immediate response was simply sadness.

 

There have been other meltdowns in the Message Center over the years, including several that involved particular escorts. But I am not reminded of Devon so much as I am reminded of Sean. Those of you who have been here long enough, you will remember Sean. He was the man who became known for speakers after he kicked in a client's speakers after getting angry for a reason that I do not remember. Sean died young, a troubled man. I had hired him before the meltdown and regretted the course that he was on and his untimely death.

 

I have a number of thoughts here but it is late and I do not have time to organize them clearly. So I will simply make my points in whatever order they occur.

 

1. Escorting is a business. Escorts who don't treat it like a business generally do not succeed in it for long. Many escorts are young men who have no prior experience in business and they are faced with needing to learn at least some of the lessons of business or they face a difficult, unhappy, uphill road. Like all businesses, escorting involves sales and marketing. Sales involves selling a product to a particular customer. Marketing, on the other hand, is more about product placement, image management and getting the word out to as many potential customers as possible. Many businesses have learned the hard way that poor marketing can lead to disastrous results that can undermine everything else that a business may have done well. Image is terribly important for any business and that includes escorts.

 

2. The Message Center and the review site offer escorts an unparalleled marketing opportunity. For a cost of zero dollars, an escort who manages his image carefully can derive incredible marketing from these sites -- marketing that can have a very positive impact on sales, which of course are the bookings that clients make with the escort. On the other hand, these sites can easily ruin an escort's image. Escorts can complain about that as much as they want but it's absolutely no different than people going on Expedia and talking about the great dinner they had at this hotel and the bedbugs at that hotel. These sites aren't going away and smart escorts will use them as business tools.

 

3. Escorts -- if they are to maintain their sanity -- need to keep their clients at arms length. Sometimes the occasional client will cross the border and become a friend but both clients and escorts need to remember that this is a business transaction. Forgetting that leads to a very dangerous slippery slope.

 

4. Escorts who come here and complain that they can't post whatever they want to post and say whatever they want are simply being naive. They can say that escorting isn't like any other business but, in fact, it's VERY like many other businesses. Escorts need to manage their customers just like any other business. There is no way in hell that a banker or real estate agent or anyone else who is trying to sell a product will go onto a message forum comprised of their clients and prospects and just post whatever they want. It's tantamount to professional suicide. Take your private thoughts and go share them with your good friends elsewhere. When you come here, treat it like business because it is -- unless you don't care what your customers and prospects think of you. Professional escorts act professionally. If the rules here aren't the same for clients and providers, well, tough shit. They aren't the same anyplace in the world of business. You're trying to sell something to a group of people so do yourself a favor and act professionally.

 

5. The number one thing that I want from an escort is discretion. Number two isn't even in the same universe. Discretion is everything and nothing else comes close to being as important. I've been hanging around this place for twelve years and, in that time, I've met a small number of clients -- perhaps five or six. I've met hundreds of escorts and I've only once told an escort that I was Boston Guy and he doesn't live in the US. I'm sure that there are escorts who may suspect who I am but I don't discuss it with them. It isn't important that they know my identity here and not one escort has ever asked me if I participated here or, if so, who I was. For that, I am thankful.

 

6. When I am with an escort, along with discretion, I want tact. I do not want to discuss other escorts that I have been with. Sometimes, we'll talk about people who we might want to meet or who we've heard good things about but that's as far as I'm willing to let it go. I do not gossip about other escorts and I do not want to hear gossip from the escorts that I am with. I most emphatically do not want to hear gossip or even any mention of other clients with whom the escort has met. I expect that each escort will respect my privacy and not share the details of my encounters with him with anyone else. It's only right that I expect him to treat each of his clients with the same regard and I do not want to hear anything at all about any of them. Not one word. If an escort starts to go in that direction, I change the course of the conversation.

 

7. When I first started posting here again a few months ago, I was intrigued by this fellow Ryan Cade. He seemed interesting, bright and attractive. I seriously considered hiring him. But then there was a thread -- I don't recall now which one -- where he was posting in a manner that made me hesitate. Over the weeks and months, as I read other posts of his, I began to see Ryan as a bright guy who nonetheless was making what I perceived to be serious mistakes in developing his escorting business. Chief among those was his determination to use the Message Center to be "passionate" and "honest" -- which often ended up reading as "angry" in my mind when I read his posts. I felt and still feel that Ryan doesn't see the Message Center as a marketing tool or doesn't understand it's potential for both good and bad impacts on his business or simply doesn't care. I don't know which is the case but the result is still the same: he feels that it is his right to come here and post whatever he wants (which IS the case) but he seems to lose sight of the primary goal which should be, of course, to further his business. I do not think that it is possible for an escort to be completely open and honest here and post whatever he wants and still use this as an effective marketing tool. So each escort has to decide what it's going to be: demand to post openly and honestly here or use it as a tool to improve his business. I don't think that Ryan understands this dichotomy or, if he does, he has evidently decided that it's more important that he post somewhat angry posts in this particular message center than that he builds his escorting business.

 

8. The last few weeks seem to have been a period of high stress for Ryan, some of which has been connected to threads here. Evidently, based on what he has posted above, business hasn't been great, either. Ryan, you may not like what you see as the unjust nature of how this place works but that is really neither here nor there. It's also water under the bridge now, because you evidently will no longer be offering the same kind of escorting services. I don't understand what brought you to that decision and hope very much that the new course works out better for you. But, speaking as a single customer, you lost my business because of your posts here. You come across as bright and passionate but also often as angry and, at times, unrealistic and demanding. When I hire an escort, I have but one goal in mind: to have fun. I want to have fun. I don't want to hear about all sorts of other guys or have to deal with a lot of drama. I just want to have fun and your posts here led me to believe that there was a good chance that hiring you was going to involve too much drama. Perhaps that isn't the case at all and I'm willing to believe that I may have misjudged you but all I had to go on was what you yourself have written here. I know virtually no other posters and I have used the private message function hardly at all. I am not part of any inner circle or evil cabal. I make my own choices on escorts without any input from anyone else and the only reviews that I offer are the limited ones that I sometimes post as an aside here. The fact that I chose not to hire you -- after being reasonably certain that I was going to -- was not due to any third party but only to my reaction to what you have written. Unfair? Perhaps. And perhaps that's the best lesson here for you. No matter what you do in life as you go forward, life isn't going to be fair. Especially in business, life is not going to be fair. If you want to succeed in business, learn the rules and make them work for you. Don't confuse your workplace and your customers with your home and your friends, for that leads to disaster.

 

9. This thread is a disaster, mainly for the escort called Ryan Cade. The original post and the followups would be more than sufficient for me to decide never, ever to hire this escort even if I knew nothing at all about him before reading this. The kinds of personal disclosure here violate my number one rule, which as I posted above is discretion. An escort should take a client's secrets to his grave.

 

BG

[NYTomcat]

OK Now I'm Pissed. I've not fired back and tried to be nothing but nice here. But since apparently my private confidences are up for public discussion, and I am not allowed any privacy in my dealing with an escort lets get a couple of facts absolutely straight.

 

July 19, I met with Ryan and we had a perfectly good meeting at the end of which I told him I would be reviewing and it would be a positive review

 

July 31, Less than two weeks later (Ok the end of the month is my busy time so I waited until saturday I finished The review and tried to submit (I had also been off for a while as Daddy's had been down when I met with Ryan) Agreeably I did not get a confirmation and obviously I had screwed up submitting

 

August 1-2 I met with Raul, Whipped and Doit In NYC for a huge 4 way party (Doit you better submit that damn thing before Raul decides to Lambast me as well.. Nah I know Raul has more professionalism than to repeat this disaster)

 

August 3-5 Three days of catching up with work, Post about the NYBC weekend being fantastic and I think get the first of Many nasty texts from Ryan regarding "My True Colors" Said I would check with Daddy's but he keeps saying Im part of some great conspiracy of money weilders

 

August 6-8 Weekend with Romann in NYC. Had a blast (Review here to be submitted but honestly I'm still working on that one too.... Sorry I get busy)

 

August 9 Come Out to My Family (yeah fun day that was) But after all this crazy hiring and experimentation I had found the real me and there was no going back

 

August 11 Back into the City Met with Rape Counselor (WE all have our issues but apparently mine are forum fodder)Dinner with Romann.

 

Everyday since a blur of work, emotional drama, and just some discovery of coming out to my close friends and finally admitting who I am. Sexually that is Otherwise Im quite sure I know.

 

So I do apologize that I promised a review but the man could not wait 10 days for me to file or give me one day to check what was going on with what I thought I had submitted... I didnt get a confirmation but for all I know the damn review is still in the cue with Daddy. If it is please pull it. Cause If I write a review at this point the follow up treatment is going to be a doozie.

[NYTomcat]

What a cluster fuck and not in a good way.

 

Upon originally reading the post, I knew he was talking about TomCat, too. No secret that TC is new to this and that when he falls, he falls. Not judging... mistakes we have all made at the beginning and as I have confessed to myself, many times.... (Ridge, Jim Slade, Kent Larsen... MARCO, MARCO, MARCO!!! still to this day, MARCO!!!) ... letting the lines get blurred... going out for a boyfriend experience when what you really want, deep down, is a boyfriend. Guilty as Hell, back then...

 

Did I let the lines get blurred at my first hire... At first yes. Do I want a BF... Hell No. I wanted to be sure before I gave up a marriage of so many years that I actually could be romantic and not just sexual with a man.... Was I over amorous.. Maybe at the very beginning but that quickly went away as I discovered I enjoyed multiple partners, three ways, flirting in bars with new people. OK Yeah Slutting around. What I got was a friendly relationship with an escort. Romann and Raul. Not a mistake at all.

 

I think in this case lines got blurred by both parties.... too many emails, too many phone calls, too many texts, too much involvement in each other's real lives, because boys, this really ain't real... it's business and to let it become anything else is a slippery slope that usually leads to a thread like this one.... been there, too.

 

Hell No. no lines blurred at all, Ryan I met on the forum and got to know because he was having trouble... supposedly a stalker, which I certainly believed at the time despite numerous other posters here advising otherwise. No romanticized interest believe me. We flirted with meeting if he ever got to NY. Then he was back in the game and coming to NY so I (to my everlasting bad judgment I can now say) scheduled with him. It was nothing but a hire, one day with a guy I thought was friendly and we had good conversation... sorry I actually like to talk to the guy Im fucking. before... during... and after (though the during is usually a different context)

 

I can understand the escort's disappointment that a promised review didn't happen... especially when apparently he believed that the client held such sway in these parts that a review from him would give him the keys to the kingdom... so much so, that even the great and powerful David would "beg" for such an endorsement... ( sidebar: I have met David, once or twice...maybe... who remembers?.... but I know for a fact that even the very first time that I met him, when he was only on the precipice of great and powerful, the man never even mentioned the word "review" to me...) because, no client has that much power... (ok, maybe Geffen..... who I suspect is really Frank Whitacker, that lucky bastard that still gets Todd Dillon..).... to make an escort's phone stop ringing by not mentioning him here....

 

This is exactly what I told Ryan... He was somehow under the impression that a review from me could make his career or save it from what he saw as obscurity... Look I like to help where I can. I'll bump a travel add. or even recommend when someone's asking. But I know damn well one review is just that... one review. Though, knowing he was going to the midwest and another friend was interested in meeting him I contacted him to set that up as well for Ryan.

 

When He started texting me that my lack of a review had made his phones stop ringing I was non-plussed. especially when he started saying that I was heading some conspiracy of Money wielders and private messages against him to destroy his potential clients in favor of David and Romann and I think probably Raul whom he started to see me praise after our weekend in NYC. After multiple caustic texts even though I explained... I finally told him not to contact me again. Then this.

 

Have to say, though, that this has been the most pertinent post in a long, long time. At least, it involved what really can happen between us.... if we are not careful.

 

Best to all involved... mostly, to best... who I miss hearing from.... how are we supposed to run this gay mafia without you, dammit? Private me!

 

Okie

 

Yes it is... William warned me in his first review... and others told me but I followed a pretty face and what seemed a warm heart. Both of which I think Ryan has. But this has gone on long enough. If you want a good reason to take reviews and the warning of others seriously... here it is.

 

Okie I certainly dont want you to think I disagree with anything you have said... I just wanted to clarify where your facts are blurred so your analysis is wrong. But you and I do also differ. You've said yourself you hire for a sexual experience only... I do not. I want that regular contact to heighten the experience. Im sure you dont care so much if your escorts contact you or not in between hires. I Do. I build friendships which to me makes the sexual get togethers that much.... More

[+ David-SF]

I made not one single reference to you tomcat whatsoever not one !!! Don't fucking draw conclusions from my post to Ryan to make it about you there are plenty of more important issues I wanted to relay to Ryan about this thread I don't need to express to you my complete dissappintment in the absolute lie you just told here that I would ever say do not hire an escort or gossip about anyone one to you for any reason and here I thought I was defending you and you stand by an attempt to place my time with you and cheapen it by making a complete and absolute lie up about me it was not me that spoke about other escorts it was you what I said was "oh no let's not go there" and yet you continued so I shared some disappointing feelings I had with another escort that I had a huge crush on the fucking nerve that you have right now is beyond unbelievable. I feel sorry for you and I am really hurt by your attempt to defend yourself just burns me up I have to say the many faces you are wearing right now only harms others even when you think your helping your harming keep my name out of your drama I had and have nothing absolutling nothing to do with any of it.

[NYTomcat]

Now truly enough

 

I truly believe this experience has done what no other could.... Truly made me see what is the toxic nature of this forum. While it has so many great qualities that I have enjoyed over the months of posting here... This experience has left me feeling vulnerable, paranoid and altogether disheartened. Perhaps feeling like I just left one family to know This other has such issues is just to much right now.

 

Im not playing the im leaving only to come back card. I know I'll be back But I clearly need some distance from this board for a while. So please enjoy the entertainment in my absense and when I have gurded my loins from this experience. I'll see you all again.

 

Tomcat Out

[+ ArVaGuy]

Once again Boston Guy you provide the most incisive analysis of any poster on this board.