When Professionals Aren't

[+ deej]

>As very often happens with these threads, we loose the

>original concept and get into personalities.

 

Yeah, we just diss. That's the only sport gays have in common, after all.

 

>The purpose of these

>forums is to express opinions. If you don't agree with

>someone's stance on a subject so be it. There is no reason

>to insult him and call him names.

 

Have you been forbidden from expressing your opinion?

 

>Deej mentions that we are all making

>opinions without knowing all the facts. Well, we've all

>read the original post and if there is more to the story

>then so inform us.

 

So you've decided the original post is 100% truthful?

 

Please tell me how you reached that conclusion. I'll probably enjoy the story.

[Guest alanm]

Now we are in the worst of all possible situations. One person has already deduced that the escort is one of three men whom he named in an earlier threat. I do not understand his logic, because none of the three charge $300 an hour. But, their names are posted big as life.

Will and HooBoy are angry at each other. Deej has joined in. HooBoy's

original instincts were corrrect: the original posting was inappropriate. Once the posting was allowed, the escort should have been named so he could defend himself. Also, the original poster needs to grow up, some encounters with escorts will be unpleasant--- that's life, get over it and move on!

[Guest Sports]

FunVideoGuy, thanks for joining this site and telling us about this escort. I know who you are talking about and everything you said about him is true. In fact, he is probably the worst escort here. You are lucky you didn't get to meet him and experience the whole bad package. This protected escort travels around the country and it would be great if there could be a warning about him.

[guyinsf]

Thank you for your comment, HooBoy.

 

I will add that if this oard posted every thread when an escort found a client rude or vice-versa, we would probably be inundated with this sort of post. Rudeness obviously can come from either direction, and frequently rudeness on one person's part is responded to in kind.

 

Who knows how this escort in question was approached? Maybe the escort was the only one who was rude, maybe not. Sure, an "ideal" escort can always respond to a difficult client/potential client with aplomb, but most of us have our flaws. I'm not accusing the client of "starting it," but I am saying that we do not know the entire picture. Given the lack of any significant professional interaction (THERE NEVER WAS AN AGREEMENT TO MEET), I do not think we need the "entire picture."

 

For those of you who believe you know who this escort is, fine. Surely if he is rude and arrogant on a consistent basis, anyone else contacting him to arrange an appointment will discover that for himself.

 

My final comment is that I am amazed when I see people attempting to dictate how this site should be run. I can understand Will's feelings being hurt, particularly since he has donated money, but in the end it has always been clear that this site is run in the manner in which HooBoy deems appropriate. This site is entirely free for anyone who wants to visit it and chooses not to contribute. Appropriate manners suggest that if one does not feel comfortable at a host's gatherings, one should decline future invitations. If one accepts invitations and, on occasion, one finds the food unpalatable, one graciously dines anyway; one doesn't get up and berate the chef about his seasoning preferences, nor does one attempt to order the chef how to prepare meals in the future. To those who think this isn't fair, YOU ARE RIGHT. LIFE ISN'T FAIR. Remember, however, that this is an escort review site. We're not discussing our Supreme Court ordaining a president.

[Guest Kenny021]

"some encounters with escorts will be unpleasant--- that's life, get over it and move on!"

 

....AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO TELL US ALL ABOUT IT..what the hell do you think this site is...an ESCORT REVIEW SITE?

[Guest Kenny021]

"My final comment is that I am amazed when I see people attempting to dictate how this site should be run. I can understand Will's feelings being hurt, particularly since he has donated money, but in the end it has always been clear that this site is run in the manner in which HooBoy deems appropriate. This site is entirely free for anyone who wants to visit it and chooses not to contribute. Appropriate manners suggest that if one does not feel comfortable at a host's gatherings, one should decline future invitations. If one accepts invitations and, on occasion, one finds the food unpalatable, one graciously dines anyway; one doesn't get up and berate the chef about his seasoning preferences, nor does one attempt to order the chef how to prepare meals in the future. To those who think this isn't fair, YOU ARE RIGHT. LIFE ISN'T FAIR. Remember, however, that this is an escort review site. We're not discussing our Supreme Court ordaining a president."

 

Gee, that's DEEP.

 

I gather that one's influence on this site depends on how much one contributes to it. If you don't pay, you can't play?

OR...you can play but don't expect anything to be fair... I get the final say as to who wins the game.

 

So much for: "Honest In Our Judgments & Truthful In Our Reporting"

[guyinsf]

Perhaps I didn't write what I really meant:

 

Obviously a lot of stuff gets posted here, and even some very popular escorts are the subject of unflattering posts. I don't think that every post is screened so that only one point of view is presented. I wasn't intending to silence anyone. I am suggesting that if the people who run this board think someone's post is inappropriate, it is their "right" to remove it or not post it in the first place and I find it disturbing that some others think it is appropriate to demand otherwise.

[taylorky]

A lot of posters

>here seem to have the self-restraint of an average teenager

>with raging hormones.

>

 

ummm deej i,m an "average teenager with raging hormones" hee hee but i like to think i am far more mature than some of the clowns here. whoa some of these guys live to dump on people...makes no sense. :(

[Will]

>I am suggesting that if the people who run this

>board think someone's post is inappropriate, it is their

>"right" to remove it or not post it in the first place and I

>find it disturbing that some others think it is appropriate

>to demand otherwise.

 

How many times I have to say it, I don't know, but I couldn't agree with you more that Hooboy's site and Hooboy's rules and Hooboy's discretion decide the ground rules here. Not only have I never denied that, I have defended that position on a number of occasions. And while -- in this particular instance -- I don't follow Hooboy's argument, from past experience I know that there are lots of good reasons not to post a particular contribution. The more I think about it, the more I sense that Hooboy was probably wise to squelch the whole matter.

 

Nor does my complaint have to do with the fairness of life. My complaint has to do, very simply, with civility. Although deej construed my original post as an insult to Hooboy, I have re-read it a million times and cannot find the words of attack there. Even though I was a little sarcastic towards the end -- a sort of rhetorical flourish -- that, again, was hardly an attack on Hooboy.

 

More broadly, I am sad that the ethics of communication have so declined that we no longer distinguish between the right to speak and the right to speak in any old way we like, that when someone deliberately seeks to insult someone else, it's the target of the insult who's blamed for not liking it. Perhaps all of this has to do with what I'm increasingly disturbed about regarding the internet, and that is the appalling cruelty -- not even insensitivity -- that we allow ourselves behind the screen on anonymity. For examples of cruelty -- not the bad manners demonstrated on this thread -- see the replies to Jizzdepapi's announcement of his retiring from the board. The devil himself couldn't have done a better job at writing some of those.

[HooBoy]

Will,

 

I have the highest regard for you. Your are among the few posters that I regularly read - although I admit I rarely read more than one paragraph.

 

I apparently interpreted your post as a hammer and if I was wrong I do apologize.

 

This FunVideoGuy came in here, registered and immediately posted a vile nothing about an escort who I do not know, but who has a good reputation.

 

Can you not read the ramifications of that?

 

Furthermore, this FunVideoGuy posted again when I deleted his negatory and then he tried twice to submit a review through the review channels...

 

Who is this guy?

 

What is his deal?

 

He could not make an appointment. I wrote to him and told him that most people would dust themselves off and move on down the road. I suggested that if he was really intent on exposing this escort who did not want to see him, he should re-post without the escort's name, using the SUBJECT "When Professionals Aren't" and if the escort in question felt moved to respond, he could. Otherwise, it was really a NON-ISSUE.

 

No appointment was made. Dinner was not served. There was no meeting. Frankly, I think FunVideoGuy is a rude asshole, but no one knows his phone number and we cannot call him and harass him for being rude. We cannot shut down his business if he has one, for being rude. But you think he has the right to flit in here and after having contributed absolutely NOTHING to this community try to smear a well-known professional?

 

If you stand by that, sir, then I think you are in the wrong forum.

 

Please, do not make me come out of my whole again.\

[HooBoy]

Wow, I can really see how few friends I have here in this place.

 

Here is the text of the email I sent to FunVideoGuy. If you guys would like a copy of every email I send out, please let me know so I can put you on my CC list....or maybe you would prefer the BCC list....

 

Happy 4th fellas!

 

Emial to FunVideoGuy: (now watch, someone will bitch that I am publishing private email.)

 

If the events as you described them happened to me I know that I might feel

similarly. However, reviews on this site are just that - reviews, but only

of actual meetings. It is the wise man who knows when to get up, dust

himself off, and get on with life when the idiots along the way offend. And

while I understand the need to vent, it is always better to enlighten than

retaliate. Therefore, may I make the following suggestion: remove his name

and post your experience on the message board under the heading "When

Professionals Aren't," and get a dialog going on the subject. Maybe when he

sees how his peers feel about his unprofessional behavior, he can achieve

some needed growth. Lashing out at him only gives him the opportunity to

rationalize his behavior. By taking the real moral high ground first, he

will be unable to claim it as his own.

[+ deej]

>Perhaps all of this has to do with what I'm increasingly

>disturbed about regarding the internet, and that is the

>appalling cruelty -- not even insensitivity -- that we allow

>ourselves behind the screen on anonymity. For examples of

>cruelty -- not the bad manners demonstrated on this thread

>-- see the replies to Jizzdepapi's announcement of his

>retiring from the board. The devil himself couldn't have

>done a better job at writing some of those.

 

It's amazing what some people will say behind the cloak of anonymity, eh?

 

We've toyed with the idea of requiring a minimum level of information in profiles as a requirement to becoming unmoderated, but that's just going to chase people away. Or start a flame war. Right now, guys can float around like a ghost, slinging barbs along the way, completely anonymous.

 

People often ask why there aren't more escorts posting here. One reason is that they have a LOT of information about themselves out there and they're 100% open to attack around here by anonymous ghosts, and most of those attacks are unwarranted.

 

It's a real connundrum. If we start requiring profiles, we ruin any vestige of confidentiality. If we don't, we wallow in a cesspool of hate and anger. Unless we police ourselves. Sadly, that won't happen. A lot of posters here seem to have the self-restraint of an average teenager with raging hormones.

 

<sigh>

[duke37]

When posters aren't professional

 

Interesting idea there deej.

 

What do you think guys...No profile No Reply?

 

Why should we pay any attention to posters who have no profile, no reviews posted and reveal nothing of themselves? Anonymity gives some people free rein to become a spoiler on this site and if and when they get shut down they can just register under a different name and do the same thing again. By way of contrast many of the guys here have been very generous with their thoughts, feelings and life experiences, those are the people that have some incentive to be a positive member of the message center. If you have invested a great deal of time and honest information about yourself you have a strong self interest not to jeopardize what you have helped to build.

 

deej points out that such a policy may cause some people to not participate. He is probably right and as management of the board they shouldn't discourage participation. However we (if we are so like minded) CAN.

 

How would this work? Well for starters no matter how provocative the post is, if you click on the little face up in the corner and get no information...Dont Reply. Skip the post entirely and pretend it never existed. Why should they get a free ride when so many here are so generous of themselves and too often get attacked for their trouble?

 

Thoughts?

 

Jeff

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

HooBoy,

 

You may have been right in what you did regarding FunVideoGuy’s original post. In the past I have sided with the overwhelming majority of your actions, though not always. In this case I agree that there were red flags on the field with FVG’s play. I think your email was a fair and appropriate response to FVG. (There is no breach in publishing one’s own email. ) Unfortunately, this email and before that your more forthcoming explanation of events as you saw them was revealed only in the latter innings. Prior to these revelations there was sufficient grist to occupy the questions mill. There may still be for many – it is a legitmate question for debate, although who sets the rule and runs the show is not.

 

I DON’T think your reponse to Will was appropriate. And neither was your apology which barely qualifies as one in my opinion.

 

"I have the highest regard for you. Your are among the few posters that I regularly read - although I admit I rarely read more than one paragraph.

 

I apparently interpreted your post as a hammer and if I was wrong I do apologize….

 

 

In this instance, I hope you read more that the first paragraph before unloading your broadside. And for a poster that you have the "highest regard for" I would have thought that would give you pause to read more carefully the post at least and maybe do a little follow-up to clarify issues.

 

You do extend an apology and then deliver it with a smack to the chops...

 

 

"No appointment was made. Dinner was not served. There was no meeting. Frankly, I think FunVideoGuy is a rude asshole, but no one knows his phone number and we cannot call him and harass him for being rude. We cannot shut down his business if he has one, for being rude. But you think he has the right to flit in here and after having contributed absolutely NOTHING to this community try to smear a well-known professional?"

 

If you stand by that, sir, then I think you are in the wrong forum.

 

This is more uncalled-for rudeness on your part, mixing your interpretation of events and motives (which I share probably) with what Will supports, and then suggesting that he is in the wrong forum. Maybe many of us are… Sort of like putting words in Will’s mouth then inviting him out if he stands by them. This I expect from other posters but not you.

 

Please, do not make me come out of my whole again.

 

I’m more than a little pissed that I have to make this response in public but I have little time to prepare for travel and you created this mess in public.

 

If this puts me in the category of not-a-friend I’m saddened and sorry. Key aspects of friendship for me are mutual honesty and respect and this means having to say and hear things that I may not like but that are said in honesty and sincerity.

 

To the broader issue Deej addressed…

 

There are a lot of assumptions and pronouncements being made here by people who ABSOLUTELY are not privvy to the persistent, insistent, and belligerent prelude to this thread.

 

Granted… this is often the case. But the remedy is not to belittle forum members, who as you just remarked have not knowledge of the prelude, because they choose not to let the subject drop based only on brief comments of a general nature that the poster must have some axe to grind. If there is a prelude and the discussion continues to roll on then by all means carefully provide ‘some meat’ on the prelude as HB finally did. I think that would have gone a long way to defusing ‘favoritism’ charges, etc.

 

Not looking for any response here… I’m not the one that should be addressed anyway. And of late I’ve become accustomed to one-way discussions. Anyway, I won’t be around to read or respond – I have reserved nine glorious days of fun and sun on the West Coast of the North American Continent without my computer.

:-)

[Guest msagget]

" Frankly, I think FunVideoGuy is a rude asshole,

>but no one knows his phone number and we cannot call him and

>harass him for being rude. We cannot shut down his business

>if he has one, for being rude. But you think he has the

>right to flit in here and after having contributed

>absolutely NOTHING to this community try to smear a

>well-known professional? "

 

Strong words from THE BOSS.

 

HooBoy's quote above is confusing me. Maybe I didn't read the original post correctly but where in the post is he being rude?

Do you really think that his post here deserves an harassment by calling him and shutting down his business if we knew his tel no.? As for the right to flit in here and, after having contributed absolutely nothing try to smear a well-known professional, is also confusing to me.

 

I am a recent contributor to this forum and feel somehow that based on the above comment, my contributions shouldn't be taken seriously and undoubtedly if I post a negative review, it will be suspect.If I say anything negative about someone, will I be accused of "smear"? I didn't read anything in the original post that even approached "smearing"; of course that's my opinion.

 

From what I see here, Funvideoguy didn't mention who this well-known professional is (at HooBoy's suggestion AFTER HooBoy told him what to do and decided to allow the post). Frankly, I see the post as just an annoying experience he had...granted knowing who the escort is would enhance it.But as it stands, it is quite frankly boring.

With all due respect to HooBoy and the awfully hard task of trying to maintain sanity on this website, he seems to be taking an awfully hard stance on something that he says is "non-issue". If indeed it is just that,why is he making such a big deal out of it. Perhaps he ought to lighten up a bit.

 

He questions the motivations of the poster. Some people are questioning HooBoy's motivations in shielding a "well-known professional". Certainly if indeed he is just that, well known, Funvideoguy's experience isn't going to ruin him. I just see the whole incident as miscommunication between escort and client...nothing more.

As they say in the Nixon,Clinton scandals, "it's not the incident but the cover-up".

 

Calling Funvideoguy a "rude asshole" is a bit strong and,unless more info about him that we don't know comes to light,it appears unwarranted.

 

Just my thoughts (from a recent contributor)

>

 

:-)

[+ deej]

RE: When posters aren't professional

 

There's a simple rule of thumb. If the post sounds like a goad, ignore it. It probably IS a goad. We have posters here who have taken goading to the level of bloodsport.

[+ deej]

>ummm deej i,m an "average teenager with raging hormones"

>hee hee but i like to think i am far more mature than some

>of the clowns here. whoa some of these guys live to dump on

>people...makes no sense. :(

 

How much for the night, Taylor? :9

 

Dumping on someone is never appropriate, but (late) teenagers can be quite fun!

 

I'm kidding, of course, but the recent trend of hate for hate's sake is just inappropriate.

 

We're discussing ways to deal with it and get rid of it.

[taylorky]

>>>

>

>

>Dumping on someone is never appropriate, but (late)

>teenagers can be quite fun!

>

>oh .".dumping" is never appropriate.....LOL scared me for a minute .i first read it as humping.(my dirty mind what can i say)

>thought you were trying to kill my sex life....

>

well now that i busted my cherry last night (1st post) i think this will be pretty fun. and yep deej 37 more days and the teen years are gone bleech..............

[HooBoy]

To Will

 

My last few days have been personally harrowing.

 

Now that I am home and not subjected to a rotary 2k dialup, I re-read this thread and came to the conclusion that I broke my own rule -- attack the issue, not the person.

 

Will - and to anyone else who was offended by my remarks, I sincerely apologize.

 

I got caught up in the heat of the moment and my fingers took over from my brain, which is dead most of the time anyway.

 

My issue is that I do not want some stranger coming in here tossing grenades. I am so sorry I mushed my apples and oranges together.

 

Thanks to Daddy for the clarification!

[BobbyB]

RE: When posters aren't professional

 

>...We have posters here who have taken goading to the level of bloodsport.

 

And THEN some if this thread is any indication. I am always shocked (and saddened) at people's inability to keep their eye on the real issue. In this case, Funvideoguy's gripe about "escort X" didn't meet the established - and required - standard because an actual meeting never took place. Period! If it had, then "escort X" would have been fair game. And if "escort X" didn't feel he had gotten a fair review, he could have, and no doubt would have, filed an official "escort X responds" rebuttal, and the world could then have drawn its own conclusion. That is the OFFICIAL position of this site.

 

There is no conspiracy here. There is no "umbrella man" on the grassy knoll. And what I find so disturbing is how some people feel it's their right to barge into someone's life and invade their privacy just so they can sit in judgement and feed their lust for blood. This is not our right, and I commend Hooboy for taking the stand he did.

 

If "escort X" chose not to meet with Funvideoguy, that's his call to make, not ours. And given that Funvideoguy seems genetically incapable of letting it go like any well balanced adult would, I suspect "escort X" may have made the right decision.

 

Gentlemen, let's keep something in perspective: this thread isn't about Enron, insider trading, or Homeland Security. It's about some pouting malcontent who didn't get his weenie waxed.

 

From where I sit, this site isn't a right; it's a privilege. Hell, it's a luxury! Finally, we the consumer have an opportunity to make an informed choice based upon a consistent standard of criteria, however imperfect some may feel it to be. I have no doubt that like everything else in life, M4M is a work in progress, but at least it's run by someone who makes the attempt to establish and maintain a standard while protecting people's privacy. Both yours and an escort's who he feels in this case may be in need of protection. I have not seen anything here that makes me uncomfortable with his discretion, and I for one am not about to look this gift horse in the mouth. Unless, of course, there's a nice weenie in it. :7

[Traveller]

RE: To Will

 

Hoo

 

If half of these people spent more time fucking and less time typing, you wouldn't need so many "Why isn't this Message Board a Warm and Fuzzy Place Anymore" posts.

 

Keep up the good work, my man.

 

Later.

[Guest seraph250]

RE: When posters aren't professional

 

>And THEN some if this thread is any indication. I am always

>shocked (and saddened) at people's inability to keep their

>eye on the real issue. In this case, Funvideoguy's gripe

>about "escort X" didn't meet the established - and required

>- standard because an actual meeting never took place.

>Period!

 

>I for one am not

>about to look this gift horse in the mouth. Unless, of

>course, there's a nice weenie in it. :7

 

 

The site is not exactly a gift. It is not the site owners but others who supply the content here. There are some rules on what gets published in terms of reviews but sometimes it looks as though there are another set of invisible rules that are used to screen out reviews that some people don't like because they like the escort or don't like the reviewer or vice versa. There are plenty of reviews on the site about escort meetings that never took place so whatever the reason this guy's review didn't get published that wasn't it.

[Guest Kenny021]

RE: When posters aren't professional

 

"The site is not exactly a gift. It is not the site owners but others who supply the content here. There are some rules on what gets published in terms of reviews but sometimes it looks as though there are another set of invisible rules that are used to screen out reviews that some people don't like because they like the escort or don't like the reviewer or vice versa. There are plenty of reviews on the site about escort meetings that never took place so whatever the reason this guy's review didn't get published that wasn't it."

 

Truer words my friends have never been spoken.

 

This thread is not a review so why does it have to meet the requirements of a review? There appears to be something here that doesn't make sense. It is said that we don't have all the facts. Well, if we don't why not? I've seen postings here that absolutely brutalize one guy or another. Yet,in this case, we don't even get to know who the infamous escort is. Who is he and why can't he defend himself against what I perceive to be an innocuous misunderstanding? Something appears to be amiss here. It appears that the one person being brutalized here is the originator of the post.

HooBoy's apology to Will and to others he may have offended should be well taken and accepted. We all have bad days. However, he should re-evaluate his words about the poster and, if he feels justified in his actions towards him, then he should provide the real facts as he knows them. Until he does that, a cloud will remain as to the real motives behind his words.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: To Will

 

Hoo,

 

Nicely put... I know that you wear a white hat even if it does get a layer of dust from time to time due to the general ruckus in the neighborhood. Some times it just needs a little dusting off. Even I have been know to get pissed on occasion -- but who would ever believe that?? :-)

 

Traveller, I'm tryng my damned-est to take your direction -- now if you were only here to cater my party... instead of playing P-Town hostess for the week. :-)

 

(All-right I brokedown and parked my ass in an internet cafe against my better judement but I really needed an auto rental later this week for the out-back and I hate to pay storefront rates.)

[Traveller]

RE: To Will

 

>Traveller, I'm tryng my damned-est to take your direction --

>now if you were only here to cater my party... instead of

>playing P-Town hostess for the week. :-)

>

 

Hamptons for the Fourth, dude; and actually the BF and I are with a bunch of straight friends (m and f). Not back to the Cape until the end of July at the earliest.

 

Later.

 

PS. And the fucking Marcel changed his dates on me. Oh well.