Compassionate holiday

[Michael Vincenzo]

Isn't it funny how we are appalled at other cultures for eating cats and dogs, but we find it so convenient to distance ourselves from the reality of our own contributions. Today I am thankful for my health, my friends, my family, my ever evolving awareness, and my fearlessness for speaking up for those who's lives are taken for granted....even when it might be considered inappropriate, offensive, or politically incorrect to others. Here's hoping that one day when they round up the gay, vegan, democrat, anti-religious, liberal, hookers that someone will speak up for me!

 

UNHAPPY TURKEY DAY FOR ALL AUDIENCES

 

...and the reality for those who can handle it

 

The Hidden Lives of Turkey

 

Many people think of turkeys as little more than a holiday centerpiece, but turkeys are social, playful birds who enjoy the company of others. They relish having their feathers stroked and like to chirp, cluck, and gobble along to their favorite tunes. Anyone who spends time with them on farm sanctuaries quickly learns that turkeys are as varied in personality as dogs and cats.

 

http://www.goveg.com/images/quote-hiddenTurkeys1.gif

 

When not forced to live on filthy factory farms, turkeys spend their days caring for their young, building nests, foraging for food, taking dustbaths, preening themselves, and roosting high in trees. Read on to learn more fascinating turkey facts.

 

 

Talkin’ Turkey

 

 

• Ben Franklin had tremendous respect for their resourcefulness, agility, and beauty—he called the turkey “a bird of courage” and “a true original native of America.” Franklin even suggested naming the turkey, instead of the eagle, as our national bird.
  
• Turkeys have been genetically modified to gain weight rapidly because fatter turkeys mean fatter wallets for farmers. But in nature, the turkey’s athletic prowess is truly impressive. Wild turkeys can fly at speeds of up to 50 miles per hour and run at speeds of up to 15 miles per hour. The natural lifespan of the turkey is between 10 and 12 years, but on factory farms they are slaughtered when they’re just 5 months old.
  
• Male turkeys, or “toms,” are bigger and have more colorful plumage than female turkeys, or “hens.” The males attract females with their wattles, colorful flaps of skin around their necks, and tufts of bristles that hang from their chests.
  
• Turkeys are born with full-color vision just like our own, and in nature they stay with their mothers for up to the first five months of their lives. These gentle birds are very bonded to their young—in the wild, a mother turkey will courageously defend her family against predators.
  
• Many respected researchers have spoken out on behalf of this intelligent, social bird. Oregon State University poultry scientist Tom Savage says, “I've always viewed turkeys as smart animals with personality and character, and keen awareness of their surroundings. The ‘dumb’ tag simply doesn’t fit.”
  
• Even a popular turkey-hunting guide admits that turkeys are far from feather-brained. According to the Remington Guide to Turkey Hunting, turkeys will “test your wits as they are rarely tested in modern life.”
  
• Erik Marcus, the author of Vegan: The New Ethics of Eating, has spent a considerable amount of time with turkeys on farm sanctuaries. He reports, “Turkeys remember your face and they will sit closer to you with each day you revisit. Come back day after day and, before long, a few birds will pick you out as their favorite and they will come running up to you whenever you arrive. It’s definitely a matter of the birds choosing you rather than of you choosing the birds. Different birds choose different people.”
  

[KMEM]

Do these other cultures think we shouldn't be eating turkeys? Also, if turkeys were domesticated pets, no doubt most of us would feel differently. I don't hunt but I am told by some of those that do that the wild turkey is a very wily and elusive game bird. The farm raised one, not so much.

 

I have no problem with you being a vegan or veggitarian or whatever you choose to be. I do have a problem when and if you try to tell me what I should do.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[+ purplekow]

Since he has not told anyone what to do, what prompted that last sentence? He has offered some information and something to think about on this Thanksgiving. Enjoy a soy drumstick Mike and have a happy holiday.

[Orson Kane]

Eating turkey or not...(but also a way to lose some weight)

 

People may wish to make a personal choice of how much meat to eat and perhaps more particularly decide to make choices of which meat to eat and to consider how the meat comes to us.

 

Americans eat more meat (and have been eating more over time) than the rest of the world. Modern, industrial meat production involves keeping animals in confined conditions, administering growth hormones and lots of antibiotics, and as getting as much meat on our tables as quickly as possible. You may not be concerned much about animal welfare issues (since you can say they are here to feed us) but there definitely are health issues related to how animals are raised.

 

One reason to eat less meat (and not necessarily give it up) is that meat production (especially beef) requires huge amounts of energy, land, and water that has a real environmental effect. It takes about 40 pounds of feed to get one pound of beef, a process that uses lots of oil based fertilizer. Bottom line is that your steak dinner requires more energy than the gas for your 20 mile round trip in your SUV to get to the restaurant serving the steak.

 

For any number of reasons (including animal welfare, environmental concerns, and of course general health), it won't hurt most of us to become more mindful eaters. Mark Bittman of the New York Times has a good book called "Food Matters" where he suggests we become “lessmeatarians.” Check out http://www.markbittman.com/books/food-matters and also http://www.markbittman.com/lose-weight-save-the-planet-become-a-lessmeatarian).

 

If anyone is still reading this, another reason to become more mindful of ones diet is that making some relatively small changes is good for one's health. I gave up a few servings of so-so meat (I confess - trips to my local burger joint) a week and lost (and kept off) 10 very stubborn pounds over a period of two months and saw my cholesterol ratio (high to low) improve noticeably from one doctor's visit to the next.

 

Let's be thankful for all of the food we have but let's also think about what we eat.

[Michael Vincenzo]

I have no problem with you being a vegan or veggitarian or whatever you choose to be. I do have a problem when and if you try to tell me what I should do.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

I am not trying to tell anyone what they should do, but I do think that most people do things without adequate knowledge. In my opinion, that standard often times accredited to convenience, laziness, and social conformity, creates a cookie cutter mentality that dishonors our capacity for intelligence.

 

I attribute my activism on the subject of animal liberation to the following quote:

 

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

 

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

 

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

-Martin Niemöller

 

We are all animals, only different.

[KMEM]

Since he has not told anyone what to do, what prompted that last sentence? He has offered some information and something to think about on this Thanksgiving. Enjoy a soy drumstick Mike and have a happy holiday.

 

I don't know who Mike is but the tone and title of "compassionate" suggested a denigration of any who might be choosing to eat turkey or indeed any meat.

 

dan-

 

I am mindful of every thing you wrote. I am against SUVs in general and I don't eat out much for some of the wasteful reasons you mention.

 

MV-

 

I don't mean to be picking on your personally but to some extent your quote could also be used on what some call veggieterrorists.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Orson Kane]

KMEM: Just to be clear re amount of oil it takes to make a pound of beef

 

QUOTE FROM KMEM:

 

dan-

 

I am mindful of every thing you wrote. I am against SUVs in general and I don't eat out much for some of the wasteful reasons you mention.

 

 

TO KMEM -- I may not have been clear, but point I was trying to make regarding SUVs and eating out is that it takes more oil to produce a steak than it takes to drive an SUV 20 or 30 miles. If you want to do something to reduce the amount of oil we use, an easy way is you can do so by cutting back on meat, especially beef.

[KMEM]

I understood your specific points. I made some more general remarks. It will take a life time of education to achieve any thing like what you are suggesting OR a major catatastrophe. But awareness is the first step.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Michael Vincenzo]

I don't know who Mike is but the tone and title of "compassionate" suggested a denigration of any who might be choosing to eat turkey or indeed any meat.

 

MV-

 

I don't mean to be picking on your personally but to some extent your quote could also be used on what some call veggieterrorists.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

As to not begin another argumentative discussion about vegetarianism, maybe I could inspire, or give some thought to this subject, through the quotes of others (despite your eating habits or beliefs, you might find these interesting):

 

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of the whole human being." -Abraham Lincoln

"To become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana." -Buddah

"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures." -His Holiness The Dalai Lama

"A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral." -Leo Tolstoy

"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. The more helpless the creature, the more that it is entitled to protection by man from the cruelty of man" -Mahatma Gandhi

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men that who will deal likewise with their fellow men." -St Francis of Assisi

"Today more than ever before life must be characterized by a sense of universal responsibility not only nation to nation and human to human, but also human to other forms of life." -His Holiness The Dalai Lama

 

"One day the absurdity of the almost universal human belief in the slavery of other animals will be palpable. We shall then have discovered our souls and become worthier of sharing this planet with them." -Martin Luther King, Jr

[MsGuy]

For those (like me) who take their daily dose of compassion with a stiff jigger or three of self interest, medical types strongly suspect that our high protein American diet is the primary cause of osteoporosis. First I heard of this was yesterday. They oughta tell us this stuff.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/health/24brod.html

[Orson Kane]

Compassionate eating (or at least cutting back on meat)

 

I understood your specific points. I made some more general remarks. It will take a life time of education to achieve any thing like what you are suggesting OR a major catatastrophe. But awareness is the first step.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

 

KMEM -- I think the education comes pretty easily -- Look at the website links I gave or better read Mark Bittman's very short book. Really it just starts with eating less meat (e.g., giving up a couple of burgers a week) and then also thinking more about the quality of what goes into your mouth (a frequent topic of this particular site). A really good place to start with easy-to-make changes are the "Eat this, not that" books put out by the authors at Men's Health that tell you at a glance which foods are better to pick out at the supermarket (e.g., one box of cereal versus another). There are five or six of these books out now and can be easily read/skimmed in an hour or less -- great for all of us! You can feel better, weigh less, and even help the earth without much effort at all.

 

see http://www.amazon.com/This-That-Supermarket-Survival-Guide/dp/1605298387/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259314240&sr=1-2

[+ Italiano]

The fact that USA diet is not exactly the best in the world is something we all are reminded every day looking at the size of many people who walk in the streets of American Cities....

 

I think that being aware of what happens in Turkeys or Porks (I have seen recently another shocking documentary...) Factories is important for everybody.

 

Choosing to become a vegetarian or a vegan is another story. Michael chose that and it's his right as it is anybody's else to enjoy meat of any kind (I admit I do!).

 

Michael's point wasn't trying to convert everybody in this Forum into Vegans.

We in USA (or in most of Western Countries) are often shocked at other Countries' eating habits, and I think he wanted to point out that (as usual..) we should be looking more at what happens here, and we should try to avoid that things like in those documentaries happen.

[Michael Vincenzo]

For those (like me) who take their daily dose of compassion with a stiff jigger or three of self interest, medical types strongly suspect that our high protein American diet is the primary cause of osteoporosis. First I heard of this was yesterday. They oughta tell us this stuff.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/health/24brod.html

 

Even before I became a vegetarian, I read about the over-consumption of calcium causing our bodies to actually leech calcium because the body was being fooled that it would receive a constant intake of calcium. The theory stated that one's body would actually reach a point that this leeching would become irreversible. There is also evidence that homogenization of milk prevents calcium from being absorbed and has been attributed to scarring of arteries.

 

Dairy has also been scientifically linked to cancer, Alzheimers, and heart disease. The human body receives a plentiful supply of more easily accessed calcium from vegetables than it does from dairy. The dairy industry is a big business and consumers are duped by the USDA's interests in that industry.

 

After reading the NY Times article you referred to, it reminded me of another theory regarding an alkaline body. It has been theorized that no disease can survive in an alkaline body; this included cancer and diabetes to name a few. This link might be helpful and also surprising: http://www.ctds.info/acidic-foods.html. I did my own personal test of this theory and tested my urine with ph strips (available in any health food store) and found that after eating a more whole food diet my ph was alkaline and acidic when I consumed a meal that was processed. It's no wonder that many cancer patients are encouraged to switch to a whole foods diet.

 

It has also been widely theorized that artificial sweeteners are the most acidic thing that humans consume (unless you are consuming battery acid?).

[Guest novabear22031]

You remind me of an ex of mine - they raised turkeys on their place for food. They had this weird thing of naming the them. One Thanksgiving we we up for dinner; and as his Dad carved in to the bird - he announced that it was "Tom" that we were having! <EEK>

 

It was the first "vegi" Thanksgiving I ever had. And for me it was the time I learned you DON'T name the food you will eat! I am a suburbanite... so had no idea as the way of life of "farm life"! My ex was raised in the 4H way of life. That what you raised up was meant to be a meal!

 

Given your love of your pups... no different if we were Korea that I raised my pup Chewey to end up in a meal

[+ purplekow]

In countries in which dogs are eaten, there are two distinct classes of dogs. There are pets and there are dogs raised for food. Rarely do the classes cross.

[Guest Merlin]

Michael, it would have been better if you had given us citations for the sources of the quotes. I am very suspicious of many of them, and suspect that at least part of them are inventions by the vegi-fascists. The quote from Lincoln does not sound remotely like him, and the idea of "animal rights" is of recent origin. Mind you, I am not suggesting that you invented the quotes, but I think someone did.

[BewareofNick]

Michael, it would have been better if you had given us citations for the sources of the quotes. I am very suspicious of many of them, and suspect that at least part of them are inventions by the vegi-fascists. The quote from Lincoln does not sound remotely like him, and the idea of "animal rights" is of recent origin. Mind you, I am not suggesting that you invented the quotes, but I think someone did.

 

In other words, unless it's reported on Fox "News" it just ain't true.

 

"Vege-fascists"??? LOL!!!!

 

Somewhat hypocritical of you to ask for sources from Michael when you yourself push conservative propaganda and refuse to source it. Of course, we know why YOU don't source anything, but still....

[KMEM]

In other words, unless it's reported on Fox "News" it just ain't true.

 

"Vege-fascists"??? LOL!!!!

 

Somewhat hypocritical of you to ask for sources from Michael when you yourself push conservative propaganda and refuse to source it. Of course, we know why YOU don't source anything, but still....

 

Isn't this a "political" post?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[BewareofNick]

Isn't this a "political" post?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

Only if pointing out hypocrisy is political. How many times has Merlin been asked to source something and he has refused to do so? Now he asks Michael for sources?

 

And vege-fascists? Really???

[KMEM]

Pointing a finger at Fox News or any who might look at such is very likely, "political" in nature. Yes, there are vegeterrorists and their ilk roaming about in this world.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Michael Vincenzo]

Michael, it would have been better if you had given us citations for the sources of the quotes. I am very suspicious of many of them, and suspect that at least part of them are inventions by the vegi-fascists. The quote from Linhttp://www.companyofmen.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=630996coln does not sound remotely like him, and the idea of "animal rights" is of recent origin. Mind you, I am not suggesting that you invented the quotes, but I think someone did.

 

I'm glad you pointed that out to me! You are right that it is not a verifiable quote from Abraham Lincoln. I took all of those quotes from an online resource. I believe all of the others do check out, although I haven't researched each one. I'm all about knowing the truth!

[BewareofNick]

Pointing a finger at Fox News or any who might look at such is very likely, "political" in nature. Yes, there are vegeterrorists and their ilk roaming about in this world.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

Vegeterrorists??????????????? ROFLMAO!!!!!

 

Who is their leader? Osama veg Laden?

[Michael Vincenzo]

Vegeterrorists???????????????

 

http://indiblog.com/119/vegetarian-terrorism/