Total Tops and Per Se

[+ nycman]

In another thread, my luxury top brother (Rod Hagen) said:

 

> NYCman you and I could have SO much fun if just one of us

> were otherwise inclined. I think we'd even go to Peter Lugers

> or Per Se* afterward (and then fuck again.)

 

> *confession, I haven't been.

 

Well, I can't help you with the "more inclined" part...'cause I'm just not.

 

If on the other hand, YOU are...I'm here...grin

 

And yes, we'd have a fuckload of fun together. No doubt.

 

Now on to more important things....fine dining!

 

My 30 second Per Se review....

 

Location, location, location...it's ok.

Columbus Circle/Time Warner ain't 5th Avenue.

You feel like you're in a Mall in Jersey.

 

The space has dramatic views,but I felt like I was on the

stage of a bad 1940's musical. Kind of like what non-New Yorkers

THINK New York is supposed to look like. And the stupid trick door

at the entrance...is just that.

 

The Service....rude. They knew next to nothing about the food they

were serving and tried to hide that fact by throwing attitude.

Tons of waiters, uniform only in their utter lack of skill or knowledge.

 

The food...blah. Mostly edible. Nothing incredible. Except for a

Kobe Beef Entree...that was a $50 supplement. It tasted like donkey meat

cooked by vegetarian monks. $50 for the ENTIRE meal would have been too much.

 

Of course, the bill was astronomical. That, in and of itself, isn't a deal killer.

My dinner at Masa cost 3 times as much and I was happy to pay. Masa was

a dinner I will always remember. Per Se was a dinner I can't forget...no matter

how much I try.

 

So there you have it.

 

Five years later...the NYC dinner invitation still stands. If you're DYING to eat

in a Jersey Mall setting and you'll “settle” for Masa...we've got a date. If not,

Craft, Daniel, Lugers, 11 Madison, Le Bernardin, works for me too.

 

And even if you're not "otherwise inclined", I'm sure we could have some fun afterwards too...grin.

[BgMstr4u]

There are so many great restaurants in NYC. The truly great, truly top end, expensive places are often also very good, and you will pay for it. They can be huge gambles as well, witness the current thread. But NYC is full of excellent places that are moderately priced, great service, terrific wine lists, creative kitchens.....

 

My current favorite is Prespa, on Lexington near 32nd.

[Guest greatness]

Both Masa and Per Se

 

If you have a business account Masa and Per Se are good restaurants to go to get a FREE meal(exactly not free because other hard working company employees are paying for it). I won't not pay my own money to go to these two places. Per Se opens 7 days a week and lunches and dinner on weekends. It is like a machine invented to make money in the name of art/food. Do we really need that? And you never know what those servers talk about you behind your back. Be careful not to offend them. There are many other good restaurants in NYC. You don't have to go to these places... but for once in a life experience then you should go expecting not too much. They provide all the things to make you willing to pay but money wise you can do better than that.

 

There were days when our mothers/wives got rare meat or fish once in a while and tried really hard to cook the best possible meal for the whole family with love. Nowadays, we can get those once rare meat or fish in grocery stores on demand. Something is missing in our current picture. I am not against fancy restaurants. I enjoy them too. But whatever a family member cooks for me is fine with me. Do we need restaurants like Per Se? Well those with accounts or try to impress their clients let them go there. If you have a real sense about what a fine dining is then it's not well worth it. Anything that is rated can be manipulated easily.

 

 

 

 

In another thread, my luxury top brother (Rod Hagen) said:

 

> NYCman you and I could have SO much fun if just one of us

> were otherwise inclined. I think we'd even go to Peter Lugers

> or Per Se* afterward (and then fuck again.)

 

> *confession, I haven't been.

 

Well, I can't help you with the "more inclined" part...'cause I'm just not.

 

If on the other hand, YOU are...I'm here...grin

 

And yes, we'd have a fuckload of fun together. No doubt.

 

Now on to more important things....fine dining!

 

My 30 second Per Se review....

 

Location, location, location...it's ok.

Columbus Circle/Time Warner ain't 5th Avenue.

You feel like you're in a Mall in Jersey.

 

The space has dramatic views,but I felt like I was on the

stage of a bad 1940's musical. Kind of like what non-New Yorkers

THINK New York is supposed to look like. And the stupid trick door

at the entrance...is just that.

 

The Service....rude. They knew next to nothing about the food they

were serving and tried to hide that fact by throwing attitude.

Tons of waiters, uniform only in their utter lack of skill or knowledge.

 

The food...blah. Mostly edible. Nothing incredible. Except for a

Kobe Beef Entree...that was a $50 supplement. It tasted like donkey meat

cooked by vegetarian monks. $50 for the ENTIRE meal would have been too much.

 

Of course, the bill was astronomical. That, in and of itself, isn't a deal killer.

My dinner at Masa cost 3 times as much and I was happy to pay. Masa was

a dinner I will always remember. Per Se was a dinner I can't forget...no matter

how much I try.

 

So there you have it.

 

Five years later...the NYC dinner invitation still stands. If you're DYING to eat

in a Jersey Mall setting and you'll “settle” for Masa...we've got a date. If not,

Craft, Daniel, Lugers, 11 Madison, Le Bernardin, works for me too.

 

And even if you're not "otherwise inclined", I'm sure we could have some fun afterwards too...grin.

[Guest zipperzone]

Some friends of mine were in NYC recently and had occasion to dine at Per Se twice during their stay. They report that on both occasions they saw Anderson Cooper there. That, to me, would be worth the price of the meal.

[Guest greatness]

hmm

 

I wonder whether AC paid for his meal there....

 

Some friends of mine were in NYC recently and had occasion to dine at Per Se twice during their stay. They report that on both occasions they saw Anderson Cooper there. That, to me, would be worth the price of the meal.

[BaronArtz]

NYCman, Greatness and others:

 

Totally agreed with your assessment of Per Se. As for Peter Luger, I found the steaks there to be top-notch but the atmosphere and service very stale. Besides, it requires a schlepp all the way to Brooklyn. It sort of is my dad's steak house. For an equally good steakhouse that won't break the bank, I recommend BLT Steak (http://www.bltsteak.com/) on the Uppereastside or Craft Steak (http://www.craftrestaurant.com/craftsteak_newyork.html) in Chelsea. Both are more contemporary versions of a traditional steak house and truly excellent.

 

My all-time favorite is Le Bernardin. Superlative in every category: food, service, decor. This grande dame never disappoints. Great wines in all price categories. And if you're not billing it to an expense account, try their prix-fixe lunch ($55) or their 'For God's Love We Deliver' lunch prix-fixe at $35 - with $5 given to this charity.

 

In the 'newer' restaurant category, great finds have been 'Blue Hill' in the Village, and 'Corton' in Tribeca. Corton probably has the best champagne list I have ever seen in NYC. And I really love my bubblies ...

[jackcali]

I'm really sorry to hear that Per Se was such a disappointment. I took my little sister there for her 40th birthday a few years ago, and we had one of the best meals of our lives there. (She's a chef, trained in France, and she knows her food.) We had almost exactly the opposite experience as you, nycman. Each dish (there were ten, I think) was interesting and creative and beautifully presented and the staff could speak about how each dish was prepared. My sister asked so many questions, though, that the sous chef came out to greet her and answer some of them. It really was a perfect and memorable art/food experience. (It was pricey, too. With a relatively inexpensive bottle of wine our bill was over $1000. And, yes, it was my own money.) I agree, though, that the setting could be better.

 

I guess most things fade with time (as I am reminded every time I look in the mirror), and it's easy to see how a place like that could lose its edge, which would make it an overpriced, disappointing experience. I'm sorry to hear that's what you experienced, nycman.

 

The good news, as others have pointed out, is that New York has plenty of great restaurants at all price points, so you can have a great dining experience spending a lot less money. Thank God for that, because I can't afford Per Se again until my sister's 50th, lol.

[JT Brooklyn]

Actual FOOD Talk in the DELI!

 

What has happened to this FORUM? We are ACTUALLY Talking about FOOD in the DELI

 

Now I know why the Contributions have CUM down to a DRIBBLE at best around here!

 

What has happened to all the interesting MALE MEAT Talk?

 

I'm guessing the "Economy" has definitely slowed down the "Working Guy" Talk due to Overall Slow Biz! Even with the "Usual Suspects" saying how Great their Biz is!

[BaronArtz]

JT ... I am 1/2 French, and in France we say that great food and great sex go very well together! Don't tell me you have never eaten lobster in bed during sex!

[JT Brooklyn]

JT ... I am 1/2 French, and in France we say that great food and great sex go very well together! Don't tell me you have never eaten lobster in bed during sex!

 

Baron... I am German & French and all about Sex First..Food Later!

[BaronArtz]

Voila! I thought we had something in common. It must be the French in us ... Food and sex complement each other really well, I do totally agree with you. And if you have both often enough, then the order doesn't matter anymore LOL

[JT Brooklyn]

Great Sex & Great Food!

 

Voila! I thought we had something in common. It must be the French in us ... Food and sex complement each other really well, I do totally agree with you. And if you have both often enough, then the order doesn't matter anymore LOL

 

Baron...This "Baron" Totally Agrees!

[+ nycman]

My all-time favorite is Le Bernardin. Superlative in every category: food, service, decor.

I couldn't agree more. Le Bernardin is the restaurant I go to when I want to BE a

New Yorker. If I could afford it, I'd eat there every day.

 

One night I took some friends to this "temple of fish"" and one of them wasn't "in

the mood" for fish. I was mortified, but the waiter didn't even crack a smirk. My

friend was served a squab dish that tasted so incredible that even I was jealous.

The worlds greatest fish restaurant also serves the worlds best fowl dish. Who knew?

 

How they manage to pull it off is beyond me. Year after year, the place just never

seems to slip....even an inch. "Professional perfection" is the best I can come to

describing the Le Bernadin experience. Don't go there to impress your friends

(although they will be impressed), go there to have dinner in paradise.

[Rod Hagen]

NYCMan, Alas our cocks may never cross. That really is too bad.

 

I know that even if a dish or two out of Per Se or Le Bernadin Laundry disappoint me I'm still bound to enjoy the meal itself. Masa on the other hand. Last week I attended a Q/A with the Frank Bruni. When asked what expense-account meals he expects to miss the most now that he's no longer the NYTimes food critic, he flattered Per Se and Le Bernadin and then said, "But the most? Masa, no question."

 

I don't get it. It's raw fish. I don't get Japanese food. I don't get Sushi, cheap or beyond gourmet. I don't get Shabu Shabu, I don't get Tempurah, I don't get saki. I love fine food, I'm an experimental eater whether it's the Chinese dive in Alhambra or top notch French.

 

 

After too many meals lost to trying to appreciate Japanese food, I gave up years ago. Occasionally I poke my nose back in, but I never enjoy it.

[Guest zipperzone]

 

I don't get it. It's raw fish. I don't get Japanese food. I don't get Sushi, cheap or beyond gourmet. I don't get Shabu Shabu, I don't get Tempurah, I don't get saki. I love fine food, I'm an experimental eater whether it's the Chinese dive in Alhambra or top notch French.

QUOTE]

 

I couldn't agree more! I HATE Sushi. In fact I hate most seafood with the exception of crab cakes, lobster (but it has to be out of the shell, such as Lobster a la Newburg) and scallops. Don't mind fish & chips - has to be halibut, yuk to cod with those damn worms and tuna is OK as a salad or on a sandwich.

 

I have an aversion to fish. Couldn't pick one up, couldn't clean one and certainly couldn't take one off a hook. Most of my friends love fish and always seem to end up in a seafood restaurant. I would no more pay for a fish dinner than try to fly.

[Rod Hagen]

I had cioppino the other day that was profoundly good. I LOVE seafood. Just don't enjoy the way the Japanese prepare it.

[jackcali]

For a guy who doesn't like fish, zipperzone, you list a lot of fish dishes that you like to eat.

 

I think most Americans who have never tried it have a visceral reaction against the idea of eating raw fish, but many try it nevertheless. Some find that they love it, some hate it and some are in between. Kind of like rimming.

[+ g56whiz]

Baron...This "Baron" Totally Agrees!

 

But you're a viscount now (and grateful we are for it) !!!

[+ g56whiz]

Re Le Bernardin

 

How they manage to pull it off is beyond me. Year after year, the place just never seems to slip....even an inch.

 

In the words of my late grandmother, I think they maintain their perfection by "sticking to their knitting". You don't hear of them trying to franchise the concept or attaching the name to products on grocery shelves of opening other restaurants on similar themes.

 

I may be way off base here but I vaguely remember that the mind who created Le Bernardin collapsed and died on a treadmill or something at a fairly early age (maybe 40's). I believe the place stayed in the family. They may well be that the survivors have decided from that there are things more important than wringing the last possible dollar from the La Bernardin name. And we are grateful for that.

[Rod Hagen]

For a guy who doesn't like fish, zipperzone, you list a lot of fish dishes that you like to eat.

 

I think most Americans who have never tried it have a visceral reaction against the idea of eating raw fish, but many try it nevertheless. Some find that they love it, some hate it and some are in between. Kind of like rimming.

 

I'm an engineer, if something doesn't work I try it again and come at it from all angles. I've eaten LOTS of sushi, I've bottomed many times, can't get a taste for either.

 

And I like some pretty weird and wild foods. Some really experimental stuff. It's hard to find more authentic Chinese food than in the east valley, outside China.

 

Growing up in the midwest I drank lots of beer, but I hated it. I swilled it cuz my friends did. I feel the same way now, expensive beer or cheap beer it all tastes shitty to me. I try it occasionally if a friend recommends it highly. But, no.

 

Interesting that you compare an appreciation of rimming to one of sushi, because if it's gone bad as either often can, you'll sprint for the toilet in the middle of the night and make wish you'd ordered Cock a Vin instead.

[jackcali]

I hadn't thought about carrying the analogy that far. Thanks for the insight. Rimming, bottoming, sushi, beer. An interesting combination of things, but all fit under the old saw "there's no accounting for taste."

[Rod Hagen]

I hadn't thought about carrying the analogy that far. Thanks for the insight. Rimming, bottoming, sushi, beer. An interesting combination of things, but all fit under the old saw "there's no accounting for taste."

 

True. Also, there's a lesson that one should try new things. And even if you didn't like it the first few times, try again. Tastes change and methods and materials do too.

[Guest zipperzone]

For a guy who doesn't like fish, zipperzone, you list a lot of fish dishes that you like to eat.

 

I know it sounds that way but most of the seafood I mentioned was shellfish. I just have this aversion to "fish" fish. Tuna doesn't bother me because by the time it ends up on a sandwich it doesn't look like fish - and fish & chips are ok 'cause I love the batter. Call me weird.

[+ g56whiz]

- and fish & chips are ok 'cause I love the batter. Call me weird.

 

Weird? Far from it. For me fish & chips are comfort food. As I explained to a young "waitperson" not long ago, I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood in the days before Vatican II. I wasn't Catholic so fish on Fridays was never mandatory. It was also the days before McDonalds and other quick food emporiums. Gordons was a fish & chips place on the corner down the street from my grammar school. I was a latchkey kid. As a hungry kid my snack food of choice (when I could afford it) was chips from Gordons and fish and chips if I had saved enough. As I remember it, they were wonderful but I also remember that Gordons had greased fires with some regularity. The sound of the fire trucks would enliven our studies. And I remember the smell. But oh the batter, I've never had better. My 60th birthday was a Friday and I was unexpectedly alone in New York. I went to three different places looking to have fish & chips for my birthday and failed. I ended up at pretentious French bistro that also failed soon after my visit. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.

[jackcali]

I wasn't calling you weird, z, only noting that you're more complicated than you let on. "I don't like fish except shellfish and tuna and fish and chips" reveals a much more interesting palate than "I don't like fish." It was a compliment.