Any Personal Experience with Testosterone Supplementation

[+ Gar1eth]

Well time for some personal revelations--

 

My libido has been down lately--may be situational--ie depression--may be due to chronic pelvic pain syndrome/chronic prostatitis/interstitial cystitis--or who knows what. I had my internist check my testosterone levels--he checked total and free. While they were both in the normal range, they were at the very low end of normal.

 

I then went to my urologist. I told him I wasn't getting aroused as easily anymore--although I didn't tell him I was gay--new doc--didn't feel it was necessary for what I was coming in for (on a personal note--just looking at the guys on M4RN or RB used to give me a great stiffy--plus I've noticed my erections aren't quite as firm and my volume and force of ejaculate is down--sometimes even difficult to masturbate--and I am 48--been doing that since I was 16--same year I learned to drive--good year!!!)

 

 

So the urologist said that it really didn't matter what my testosterone levels were--if I wasn't getting aroused--he assumed it was to women and I didn't disabuse him--I figured what difference did it make to whom I should be getting aroused--anyway he said that if I wasn't getting aroused that that indicated a relative deficiency in testosterone no matter what the actual level.

 

Now my Dad has had prostate cancer, so I am at increased risk for it--and am a little bit leery of getting on testosterone because there is a chance it could promote cancer.

 

But I was wondering if anyone on here had any experience with legal testosterone supplementation. I mean I know a lot of escorts use it either for bodybuilding or to help in job related activities. But I am not trying to be Mr Superman with a either a hard body or a perpetual "hard-on" (I couldn't resist). I'm just a normal guy who would like to get back the way I used to feel--and yes, Viagra does work to some extent--but I am also talking about a lack of libido not just decreased erections.

 

From my readings--in the US of A there are only 2 types of legal supplementation--injections and some sort of patch/gel system. In Europe there may be an oral supplement.

 

What I read said--that the injections can really give you a big boost of testosterone immediately--can cause a burst of well-being, last for a month or so--but when it wears off can make you depressed.

 

The gel on the other hand is I think a daily application--gives you a slower more natural boost--I don't think the effects are as dramatic.

 

I really don't like the thought of injecting myself--or having anyone else do it to me. I understand the solution is thick and must be injected deep into a large muscle like I am assuming either the buttocks or the thigh.

 

But I thought I'd throw the question out there to see if anyone is receiving supplements for non-bodybuilding non superman stamina reasons.

 

Please no jokes--kind of a difficult thing to be going through.

 

Gman

[Leap Year]

Testosterone

 

I've tried all three supplements... the patch, the gel and the injections. I have low testosterone levels that I lived with for years. My doctor finally convinced me to try the supplements. First I tried the patch. Like a large majority of people, I had a skin reaction to the patch. There is something in the adhesive that irritated my skin. So, next, the gel. Well, the problem with the gel is that you have to put it on after you shower every morning and then wait 5 to 10 minutes for it to dry before you can put on your clothes. I hated the wait time. Also, you can't go swimming or get it wet for 3 hours after application and you have to be very careful not to have anyone touch you where you put it on so as not to absorb any of your supplement into their skin. It was just a royal pain. So, lastly, I tried the injections. I have no problem giving myself the shots. I do it every three weeks. I do it in my hip. Since I have never had a fear of needles, it really is not a problem for me.

 

As to all the supposed benefits, well I am not sure I have seen any. Supposedly, you get this feeling of "well being". Not me! I feel no different. My libido is the same (which was never really bad anyway). My erections are unchanged which is disappointing. It is also suppose to help reduce belly fat... Nope! Not with me... not that I have all that much to begin with, but still I have some I'd like to get rid of.

 

It is also suppose to help reduce bone mass loss. I don't know about that yet. I take Boniva, calcium and Vitamin D supplements for that anyway. So I don't know if the testosterone is doing anything there or not.

 

Net net, the doctor says I am better off taking the supplement, so I take it. Whether or not it is helping me, who knows.

[Guest icon513]

I have an injection once every two weeks. I don't do it myself, I go in and a nurse does it. It is not particularly painful.

 

I had noticed my libido was down, and the doc checked my testosterone levels, found them low, and made the suggestion to take supplements. I have been doing this for a couple years now.

 

At one point, I changed to the gel, but found it messy and inconvenient. Injections are better for me.

 

As for the benefits, I dunno. In the first few months, I did feel a blast of energy, feelings of well-being, and libido. Now, I can't really say if I feel any different from before.

[gp0560]

Just a couple of things to add --

 

Be careful of adding too much supplement. I understand it can mess up your liver pretty good.

 

At one point, while my doctor and I were still trying to find the correct dosage, he said my testosterone level was above the high end of the 18-year old range! Shi-i-i-i-t! Too bad he brought me back down, because it was great while it lasted.

 

Yes, I notice more energy, etc., but also an increased confidence and assertiveness (but not to the point of aggressiveness, which is also a possible effect with too high a dose).

 

As to the way to administer the dosage -- My drug plan alternates between Androgel and Testim, depending on their cost, I suppose. Androgel gel comes in a packet and it's easier to squeeze out the entire contents. Testim comes in a small tube, and if you can get the last bit out, props to you. Androgel rubs in faster, dries faster, smells less, and it's easier to clean off your hands. Testim is said to provide a more even release of the drug, but I'd check that with your pharmacist or doctor.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[+ Charlie]

My partner has been using it for a couple of years. He uses the gel, and the only problem is getting the right amount each time. His trainer told him that it would help him lose fat and get more muscle definition, and he believes it has done that (I can't really see it). I don't think it has had much effect on his libido, which has remained pretty steady for years. However, at first it caused his PSA levels to spike so dramatically that his urologist insisted on a prostate biopsy, but so far there is no evidence that it has caused a prostate problem.

[jackhammer91406]

Five years ago I was diagnosed with alomst non existent testosterone levels.

I have been on the shots every two weeks since then.

My health plan pays for the shots if they are nurse administered.

they would not pay if I did them myself.

 

While I had always been able to get aroused easily, it is even easier now (word to the wise. if I am in the room..stay against the wall)

I do notice an increase in energy and stamina as well as hair and muscle growth. when I travel I can always tell when it's time for a shot and look forward to going back in for one when I get back from a trip.

 

I am checked frequently for any onset of prostate problems.

 

Never tried the pills or gel.

[Guest greatness]

Well

 

I am not giving a medical advice. I will just share my experience. For me the following symptoms I had were related to parasites.

 

Non seasonal allergy

Depression

Decreased libido

Sexual dysfunction

Pelvic pain syndrome

constant lower back pain ( my massage therapist told me something is swollen such as spleen)

Prostate problems

eczema

skin irritation

 

 

 

I have met with the best doctors out there. None of the medications they prescribed helped. They alleviated a little bit temporarily. Then one doctor suggested I might have parasite infection ( I travel a lot). I was afraid to tell the doctor I am gay and used to rim (not any more). Well he put me on several antibiotics and told me because parasites are hard to diagnose ( only a a few labs are qualified to do it properly) and there is no broad range antibiotics. From that point I stopped rimming at all. Then I did internal cleansing. Because the method I used has not been verified and I don't know how will affect other people, I will not state it here. You should consult your doctor always whether a certain remedy will be suitable for you or not.

 

I did not buy any product instead used natural herbs. Additionally I reduced total calorie uptake, ate whole wheat, and used mineral water without artificial chemicals (99cent one from organic store). Changing my diet from the processed food to whole grain and eating less helped me more than any medication prescribed to me. I had more energy to work and my sexual libido came back as well as my ED went away. I felt like 10 years younger and people around me started to noticed I was getting better again. I am not saying your symptoms are due to parasites but my point is simply changing to healthy diet and eating less helped me a lot. A therapist told me that we waste a lot of energy processing the food we eat and we can damage liver when there is a lot of toxin produced by parasites in the body. When I started to eat healthy and less, it gave my health back and allowed me to stop taking expensive medications. I sometime think I look much better than escorts I am hiring. Ok that is pushing it.

 

People think parasites exist only in third world countries but that is not the case. There are a lot things that we do to our body that makes prone to disease. Sometimes changing lifestyle within one's means can do a good thing. Thanks.

 

 

Well time for some personal revelations--

 

My libido has been down lately--may be situational--ie depression--may be due to chronic pelvic pain syndrome/chronic prostatitis/interstitial cystitis--or who knows what. I had my internist check my testosterone levels--he checked total and free. While they were both in the normal range, they were at the very low end of normal.

 

I then went to my urologist. I told him I wasn't getting aroused as easily anymore--although I didn't tell him I was gay--new doc--didn't feel it was necessary for what I was coming in for (on a personal note--just looking at the guys on M4RN or RB used to give me a great stiffy--plus I've noticed my erections aren't quite as firm and my volume and force of ejaculate is down--sometimes even difficult to masturbate--and I am 48--been doing that since I was 16--same year I learned to drive--good year!!!)

 

 

So the urologist said that it really didn't matter what my testosterone levels were--if I wasn't getting aroused--he assumed it was to women and I didn't disabuse him--I figured what difference did it make to whom I should be getting aroused--anyway he said that if I wasn't getting aroused that that indicated a relative deficiency in testosterone no matter what the actual level.

 

Now my Dad has had prostate cancer, so I am at increased risk for it--and am a little bit leery of getting on testosterone because there is a chance it could promote cancer.

 

But I was wondering if anyone on here had any experience with legal testosterone supplementation. I mean I know a lot of escorts use it either for bodybuilding or to help in job related activities. But I am not trying to be Mr Superman with a either a hard body or a perpetual "hard-on" (I couldn't resist). I'm just a normal guy who would like to get back the way I used to feel--and yes, Viagra does work to some extent--but I am also talking about a lack of libido not just decreased erections.

 

From my readings--in the US of A there are only 2 types of legal supplementation--injections and some sort of patch/gel system. In Europe there may be an oral supplement.

 

What I read said--that the injections can really give you a big boost of testosterone immediately--can cause a burst of well-being, last for a month or so--but when it wears off can make you depressed.

 

The gel on the other hand is I think a daily application--gives you a slower more natural boost--I don't think the effects are as dramatic.

 

I really don't like the thought of injecting myself--or having anyone else do it to me. I understand the solution is thick and must be injected deep into a large muscle like I am assuming either the buttocks or the thigh.

 

But I thought I'd throw the question out there to see if anyone is receiving supplements for non-bodybuilding non superman stamina reasons.

 

Please no jokes--kind of a difficult thing to be going through.

 

Gman

[Guest greatness]

Here is a link of website that explains about parasites.

 

http://www.jonkaiser.com/intestinal_parasites.html

 

I hope this helps

[Guest]

To which "parasites" are you referring?

[Guest]

Here is a link of website that explains about parasites.

 

http://www.jonkaiser.com/intestinal_parasites.html

 

I hope this helps

 

This website is not written by a medical professional and includes incorrect information. Many of the ''parasites" listed do not cause disease in humans, such as Entamoeba hartmanni. If you are going to spread medical information, please refer to bona fide medical sources. Many people do not know better.

[Guest greatness]

Dr. Kaiser is a MD so in your opinion a doctor is not a doctor and a medical professional?

Many of the parasites of course is not harmful when you have normal immune system but

it can cause problems when your immune system is compromised. There is a lot of things we don't know about parasites. What do you think is a bona fide medical source then?

[Guest greatness]

Unicorn

 

Where did you find Entamoeba hartmanni and many of the parasites listed do not cause diseas in humans? Then what is the medical evidence you rely on when a medical expert says they do cause disease in humans ????? Are you a medical expert? I know doctors disagree a lot that is why I only go the best. I know some doctors used to copy off my answer sheet during exams and some never even read a jouranl just interested in free golf, dinner and travel provided by drug companies. Just as our executives are corrupted our health system is compromised by unethical and incompetent doctors.

[pierrot]

testerone

 

My experience with testerone replacement was similar to some of the others. I used the gel for a while. I couldn't really see much difference in libido, but my levels were only moderately low and the symptoms not severe. However, eventually my PSAs went up and my doctor advised stopping the Androgel. So I don't take it anymore. My testerone levels are once again moderately low. My erections are not as long lasting as they were 10 yrs ago, but my libido is fine. I never had the "rush" spoken of by some who took the supplements, even once or twice when my doctor gave me the shot.

So on the whole, I'd say it's worth trying, but the results are equivocal. Just make sure your doc is monitoring your liver and prostate functions.

[+ Tom Isern]

I have found the information here to be quite useful. I've also found that more and more doctors every month are dealing with male hormone replacement therapy.

 

http://www.physioage.com/news/MensTableofContents.php

[Guest ncm2169]

One major factor in many males' sex drive is the level of histamine in their bodies. (No, I am not talking nose drops). To perhaps oversimplify, the higher level of histamine, the stronger the sex drive, the harder the machinery, and the greater ability to "perform" more frequently. (There are tests to determine histamine levels, but they are not viewed as "mainstream medicine," and therefore almost never covered by insurance). Sources of histamine include nutritional supplements (eg. L-Histidine, which must be taken regularly and won't begin working for at least a month), alcoholic beverages, and pot. Pot is particularly high in histamine, and I speak from personal experience as to its effects. I am at the advancing middle age where many men would give their left nut to get it up and get off once a week, but I have no problem, with the right stimulation and if I so choose, doing so at least once and often twice a day. I give all the credit to pot. I, like the late astronomer Carl "BEElions and BEElions" Sagan, am a daily user.

 

NOTE: The above was a paid commercial for NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Please send contributions to ... oops, I probably shouldn't post that here. Just google it.

[Guest]

Unicorn

 

Where did you find Entamoeba hartmanni and many of the parasites listed do not cause diseas in humans? Then what is the medical evidence you rely on when a medical expert says they do cause disease in humans ????? Are you a medical expert? I know doctors disagree a lot that is why I only go the best. I know some doctors used to copy off my answer sheet during exams and some never even read a jouranl just interested in free golf, dinner and travel provided by drug companies. Just as our executives are corrupted our health system is compromised by unethical and incompetent doctors.

 

Although it's really not up to me to prove that a number of the parasites listed do not cause disease, just googling up Entamoeba harmannii will pop up a number of reliable websites from university, professional society, or government websites which will discuss the matter, for example: "Distinction must be made from other non-pathogenic intestinal protozoa (e.g., Entamoeba coli, Entamoeba hartmanni, Dientamoeba fragilis, Endolimax nana, ...". (although I might add that there is a bit of controversy as to whether D. fragilis causes disease, the others seem rather free of controversy among parasitologists). Since YOU made the claim that it DOES cause disease, the burden is on you to refer to a reliable source to support that claim (and some website from a guy claiming to be an M.D., making claims without references, is NOT a reliable source).

This reminds me of when I used to argue with people about the existence of God. Some people would say "How can you prove God doesn't exist?" to which I respond that I can't prove something doesn't exist--it's up to the person making the positive claim to back up his assertion.

Interestingly, there are a lot of studies which do go through the trouble of disproving positive claims. For example, I remember a couple of years ago they actually compared echinacea to placebo for colds, and those who took echinacea had there colds actually last 5 hours longer! So if you know of a reliable source which asserts that E. hartmanni causes illness, we'll be eager to look at it.

[kjun]

I could not have said it better myself, Leap Year. You hit it perfectly as far as my experience goes.

[Guest greatness]

First I am not here to argue with you. I was simply telling you that my liver enzymes went up and doctor did parasite test. Instead of taking antibiotics I started to eat healthy, exercised and performed internal cleansing. I could see worms after a bowel movement. I don't know why you are a bit opinionated on this matter.

 

Here is an article that shows that Entamoeba hartmanni can be a pathogen.

 

Abstract: This study investigated the microbial causes of diarrheal disease among U.S. troops deployed near Alexandria, Egypt, during October 1995, Bacterial causes associated with 19 cases of diarrhea included: enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli (ETEC), 42% (21% heat-stable, 11% heat-labile, and 11% heat-stable/heat-labile producers); enteropathogenic E. coli (5.3%); and enteroadherent E. coli (42%). Four cases of diarrhea were as sociated with enteroaggregative E. coli based on probe analysis for enteroaggregative heat;stable enterotoxin 1. Protozoan causes included: Entamoeba histolytica (11%), E. hartmanni (5%), E. nana (5%), Blastocystis hominis (5%), Chilomastix mesnili (11%), Dientamoeba fragilis (5%), Entamoeba coli (5%), and Cryptosporidium (5%). Shigella, Aeromonas, Plesiomonas, Vibrio, Campylobacter, and Salmonella were not detected. Of the eight ETEC cases,one was colonization factor antigen (CFA)/I only, one was both CFA/I and CFA/III, three were CFA/II, two were CFA/IV, and two were CFA-negative. Antibiograms of the ETEC and enteroadherent E. coli strains showed that all isolates were susceptible to norfloxacin, ciprofloxacin, and nalidixic acid but resistant to ampicillin, tetracycline, chloramphenicol, and sulfamethoxazole.

Document Type: Article

Language: English

KeyWords Plus: ENTEROADHERENT ESCHERICHIA-COLI; HEAT-STABLE TOXIN; TRAVELERS DIARRHEA; CHILDHOOD DIARRHEA; STRAINS; ANTIGENS; ETIOLOGY; DISEASE; AGENTS; DNA

Reprint Address: Oyofo, BA (reprint author), USN, NAVAL MED RES UNIT 3, RES SCI DEPT, PSC 452, BOX 5000, FPO, AE 09835 USA

Publisher: ASSN MILITARY SURG US, 9320 OLD GEORGETOWN RD, BETHESDA, MD 20814

Subject Category: Medicine, General & Internal

IDS Number: XD115

ISSN: 0026-4075

[+ Lucky]

Some might argue that Jon Kaiser, M.D., is himself a parasite in that he has cashed in on people with HIV who want to maintain their health by selling very expensive pre-packaged doses of huge quantities of multiple vitamins and the like, most of which just get pissed away.

[Guest greatness]

He might be..

[Guest greatness]

My point was that simply eating healthy, exercise and some herbs (I personally bought at a store for a couple of dollars and harvested some from my garden ) was enough to get myself back. That is my point. I am not saying that everybody has parasites or they should do an internal cleaning. I travel a lot all over the world so I can pick up things. I just wanted to share my experience and that was it. Well I hope you get better.

[+ Gar1eth]

One major factor in many males' sex drive is the level of histamine in their bodies. (No, I am not talking nose drops). To perhaps oversimplify, the higher level of histamine, the stronger the sex drive, the harder the machinery, and the greater ability to "perform" more frequently. (There are tests to determine histamine levels, but they are not viewed as "mainstream medicine," and therefore almost never covered by insurance). Sources of histamine include nutritional supplements (eg. L-Histidine, which must be taken regularly and won't begin working for at least a month), alcoholic beverages, and pot. Pot is particularly high in histamine, and I speak from personal experience as to its effects. I am at the advancing middle age where many men would give their left nut to get it up and get off once a week, but I have no problem, with the right stimulation and if I so choose, doing so at least once and often twice a day. I give all the credit to pot. I, like the late astronomer Carl "BEElions and BEElions" Sagan, am a daily user.

 

NOTE: The above was a paid commercial for NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Please send contributions to ... oops, I probably shouldn't post that here. Just google it.

 

 

 

That's interesting--I would think that pot being a downer would decrease the libido--I also thought that I read somewhere that it is antiandrogenic (in this case meaning anti -testosterone)--and could cause gynecomastia (enlargement of the breasts). I can't really take pot--can't stand the smell. Do you have any references about your information on histamine?

 

Thanks,

 

Gman

[Guest]

First I am not here to argue with you. I was simply telling you that my liver enzymes went up and doctor did parasite test. Instead of taking antibiotics I started to eat healthy, exercised and performed internal cleansing. I could see worms after a bowel movement. I don't know why you are a bit opinionated on this matter.

 

Here is an article that shows that Entamoeba hartmanni can be a pathogen.

 

Abstract: This study investigated the microbial causes of diarrheal disease among U.S. troops deployed near Alexandria, Egypt, during October 1995, Bacterial causes associated with 19 cases of diarrhea included: enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli (ETEC), 42% (21% heat-stable, 11% heat-labile, and 11% heat-stable/heat-labile producers); enteropathogenic E. coli (5.3%); and enteroadherent E. coli (42%). Four cases of diarrhea were as sociated with enteroaggregative E. coli based on probe analysis for enteroaggregative heat;stable enterotoxin 1. Protozoan causes included: Entamoeba histolytica (11%), E. hartmanni (5%), E. nana (5%), Blastocystis hominis (5%), Chilomastix mesnili (11%), Dientamoeba fragilis (5%), Entamoeba coli (5%), and Cryptosporidium (5%). Shigella, Aeromonas, Plesiomonas, Vibrio, Campylobacter, and Salmonella were not detected. Of the eight ETEC cases,one was colonization factor antigen (CFA)/I only, one was both CFA/I and CFA/III, three were CFA/II, two were CFA/IV, and two were CFA-negative. Antibiograms of the ETEC and enteroadherent E. coli strains showed that all isolates were susceptible to norfloxacin, ciprofloxacin, and nalidixic acid but resistant to ampicillin, tetracycline, chloramphenicol, and sulfamethoxazole.

Document Type: Article

Language: English

KeyWords Plus: ENTEROADHERENT ESCHERICHIA-COLI; HEAT-STABLE TOXIN; TRAVELERS DIARRHEA; CHILDHOOD DIARRHEA; STRAINS; ANTIGENS; ETIOLOGY; DISEASE; AGENTS; DNA

Reprint Address: Oyofo, BA (reprint author), USN, NAVAL MED RES UNIT 3, RES SCI DEPT, PSC 452, BOX 5000, FPO, AE 09835 USA

Publisher: ASSN MILITARY SURG US, 9320 OLD GEORGETOWN RD, BETHESDA, MD 20814

Subject Category: Medicine, General & Internal

IDS Number: XD115

ISSN: 0026-4075

 

Well, at least you returned with something. I'll give you credit for that! Nevertheless, this is not a peer-review journal, first of all. Secondly, the one case which was "ascribed" to E. hartmannii in this case simply meant that no other cause was found. It is not a study which proves this agent is a pathogen, nor is it designed to do so. Interestingly, it does not appear they even looked for viral causes of diarrhea--perhaps the most common cause among Americans (Norwalk-like agents). This is a good illustration of why one need to know the source of one's claims. I appreciate your at least quoting a source. It reminds me of those who say they know God exists "because the Bible says so." Yeah, and that source also makes a number of statements of fact which are demonstrably false (such as the age of the earth, etc., etc...).

Again, thanks for looking that up. I hope I didn't come off too harshly. It's just that I get irked by some of the medical hogwash that gets propagated through the net... Peace!

[Guest greatness]

Well

 

"Military Medicine is the official monthly journal of the Association of Military Surgeons of the United States. Articles published in the journal are peer-reviewed scientific papers, case reports, and editorials. The journal also publishes letters to the editor and book reviews. The journal began publication in 1892 as The Military Surgeon."

 

Why do you think it is not a peer reviewed journal without even correctly checking the journal? I am not trying to argue with you or try to prove you are wrong. Thank you for your input. As I have said I was just sharing my experience because it helped me a lot to recover my health and that was simply my point. I was diagnosed with a parasite infection. It took a while to find it out because doctors simply overlooked what I had. Some doctors told me it was just an allergy and made me suffer. I am glad that I've met a doctor who could help me finally.

 

Well, at least you returned with something. I'll give you credit for that! Nevertheless, this is not a peer-review journal, first of all.

[Guest greatness]

Well

 

First I want to clarify that Jon Kaiser is a faculty member at UCSF medical school. I don't think you can be a faculty of a prestigious medical school if you are not qualified and a hogwash. The board members will not allow that.

 

Second Military Medicine is a peer reviewed journal. I don't know why you think it's not a peered review journal without even checking it out. Have you actually went to the journal and read it? If you need a subscription I can give it to you.

 

Third, I can't understand your comments. If you are in the medical field, how can you call your colleague a hogwash without any clear reason? Jon does state that E. Hartmanni is not recognized as a pathogen in his statement. However, it is indeed found in people with GI problems. There is also a letter to an editor of a medical journal stating that E. Hartmanni might have caused arthritis in a patient. You can go to a medical website database and find out about it yourself. We can discuss more about it if you want.

 

I was not giving out a medical advice and I was just sharing my experience. I did not list what I have used because it is not proven and it might have adverse effect on other people.

 

I appreciate your time and input. I am not saying that you are wrong. However, you made an accusation to a medical professional and I really felt obligated to defend him. Take care.

 

 

 

 

 

It's just that I get irked by some of the medical hogwash that gets propagated through the net... Peace!