Taboo Strip Club Raided By Police

[jakobsen]

RE: Did Lightening Strike?

 

>why was Taboo chosen for selective enforcement when more

>egregious infractions commonly took place at Campus that I

>know of and probably at some of the other clubs too. But

>forget the Village, what about all of the MANY straight strip

>clubs in Montreal.

 

My theory is that someone is interested in acquiring its liquor/entertainment license at bargain basement price. Makes sense if someone wants to start a strip joint (male or female); it's a lot easier to buy a license from a distressed bar than go through town council.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Friday night 5/16 at Taboo

 

>YFSC:

>

>Please see my latest post in response to Nes...

 

I did, and I wrote you an answer to your question about the new rules.

 

>Thanks so much for your reporting. YOu don't need carnations.

> The recognition is in our hearts!

 

No, I meant "for recognition" for us, so that nes and I could recognize each other! We've spent several nights together in the same small bar but we don't know each other by sight.

 

>Thanks for clearing up Damien. He is truly one of my

>favorites... so I am happy he is there and doing ok. With the

>face of an angel, how can you not like the kid?

 

Sorry for any confusion or anxiety that I may have created before with my mis-hearing of his name. There was a different DJ yesterday and I could get a better fix on his name, so I was already pretty sure that I had made a mistake. And then when I saw your description of him today, it couldn`t be anyone else. :9

 

>Anyway... did you see my questions to Nes? I was wondering

>about the exact rules to the back now. Is it no touching at

>all, or no touching in certain areas? Can you touch the

>dancer if they remain partially clothed? And is it true that

>kissing is out now?

 

See my earlier answer. Kissing wasn't mentioned to me specifically and I didn't think to ask, but I would think that comes under the heading of "they're not supposed to touch you".

 

>Thanks again for "making the sacrifice" and being on the scene

>for the evolving Taboo saga!

 

It's a big sacrifice to make, but I have a strong sense of duty and I'm chalking it up to "service to mankind".

If you want to send me some $ and a list of names, I'll be happy to have some back room dances for you. :7 }(

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Did Lightening Strike?

 

>Some thoughts. This episode does puzzle me. I know there is

>still some fog about the what, why, and how of this raid and

>thus these comments may not really apply. However, it is my

>impression from the thread as it progressed that the under age

>dancer was discovered as a consequence of the raid and not the

>cause. And that as far as I can see Management fulfilled it's

>responsibiity to check dancer ID before hiring. If so, then

>why was Taboo chosen for selective enforcement when more

>egregious infractions commonly took place at Campus that I

>know of and probably at some of the other clubs too. But

>forget the Village, what about all of the MANY straight strip

>clubs in Montreal. Do we really think that nothing equivalent

>or more damning is going on there or are we to believe that

>only choir boys frequent those places to support would-be

>novices for the sisterhood. Yet, Taboo was chosen as target.

>If not the underage issue then why? True, lightening does

>strike somewhere every day, but it rarely strikes in the back

>yard.

 

There may be a lot of possibilities.

 

My impression of the underage issue (not based on any hard knowledge) is the opposite of yours - that they may have suspected it before because of a tip and then gone in.

 

Also, Taboo because of its profile invites scrutiny for underage much more than any of the others. For example, nobody in his right mind would imagine that a Campus dancer is underage.

 

Management may have fulfilled part of its responsibility by requiring an ID, but that still does not absolve them of all responsibility for hiring an underage kid, even if they were legitimately fooled by him.

 

We don't know that this is the end of it, the one and only raid. They could be preparing to do this in more places, but Taboo was just the first - although that gets less likely as time goes by.

 

And then there are the more cynical possibilities, such as the one that jakobsen suggested above.

 

I wouldn't yet take this as an attack on male strip bars or on twink strip bars, or the start of an anti-gay campaign as someone has suggested.

[Guest nesmontreal]

RE: Friday night 5/16 at Taboo

 

I was wondering

>about the exact rules to the back now. Is it no touching at

>all, or no touching in certain areas? Can you touch the

>dancer if they remain partially clothed? And is it true that

>kissing is out now?

 

I think that any answers I might give to such questions (and I assure you I'm tempted to try to provide answers) would just add to the lack of clarity at the moment. I don't know who has pronounced the "new rules" to the dancers (although I guess it would have had to be Robert the long-time deejay who continues to work--although the new deejay was on duty last night). I don't know precisely what the dancers have been told. First, the level of "enforcement" of the rules (as well as the manner in which they were enforced) has always depended to some degree on the doorman on duty. Fernand usually was pretty strict and could sometimes be rather intrusive. Serge was customarily more lax and gentler in his approach. Another one--named Marcel, I think--worked only very infrequently and, to me, always seemed to be tough and rude. Second, the level of enforcement of the rules also depended on the dancer. Some dancers allowed more liberties to their customers than others. Third, enforcement depended on the customer, since a dancer naturally felt more comfortable with some customers than with others. Some dancers attracted more attention and more reprimands from the doorman than other dancers. (Likewise, some customers were more closely watched than others.) I have been told by dancers that they sometimes felt obliged to tip a doorman from time to time. Other dancers have told me that they declined to do that and felt that they were therefore not as favored as other dancers. I don't have the evidence to prove either of those claims beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

Now that everything has changed--at least for now--I think what happens in the backroom will depend on some of the same factors. (As I reported before, I drew fire from Marcel by touching a dancer's left calf with my right hand in the middle of one of his slow rotations in front of me.) I suspect (but I certainly don't know for sure) that dancers and doormen have been told: "absolutely no touching; no physical contact" in the backroom. It will be interesting how quickly and to what extent the "new rules", whatever they are, will loosen. (If the answers are "later rather than sooner" and "not much", then I'm afraid dancers and customers are going to begin to drift away.) But for now there are lots of dancers and lots of customers every night, and everyone is hoping for the best.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Idle Speculation

 

>

>My impression of the underage issue (not based on any hard

>knowledge) is the opposite of yours - that they may have

>suspected it before because of a tip and then gone in.

>

>Also, Taboo because of its profile invites scrutiny for

>underage much more than any of the others. For example,

>nobody in his right mind would imagine that a Campus dancer is

>underage.

 

I saw a dancer at campus (daytime) last summer that gave me pause. I was very surprised to see him at Campus, but there he was and he was workin' it.

>

 

If this might be ongoing concern (as you say based on club profile) then it seems to me that a reasonable way to handle this is for the police to send on a surprise basis a plain-clothes officer to two into to pull all dancer IDs on file and review them. Even if they get tipped there is an underage dancer this seems a reasonable approach. TO send more than a dozen cars and 40 uniforms to descend on the club tells me that was to send a message -- but to whom and for what?.

 

 

>Management may have fulfilled part of its responsibility by

>requiring an ID, but that still does not absolve them of all

>responsibility for hiring an underage kid, even if they were

>legitimately fooled by him.

>

 

Where does their respponsibility end? It doesn't occur to me what further reasonable and reasonably fool-proof actions they could undertake. A birth certificate? It can be faked. Parents sworn statement -- again faked or worse the parent cooperates because they don't care. The idea of a gov't ID is to provide an official state verified ID based on legit background information. The fact that they can be faked and pass scrutiny should be a problem for the Province gov't and not Taboo. It's Taboo's responsibility to police its operation and that means follwing the laws and regulations. It is also the province of PQ to police its operations and one of those is to provide reliable people identification and age verification to facilitate all types of commerce according to government laws and reguations.

 

Maybe there is a gov't database that clubs could cross reference for verificatoin? Nice idea but I don't know if the PQ bureaucracy is set up for that. Maybe the club should their own undertake a background search on applicants? At probably $200 or so a pop I think they'd pass on most applicants thus changing the profile of the club. Maybe that is what is necessary.

 

>I wouldn't yet take this as an attack on male strip bars or on

>twink strip bars, or the start of an anti-gay campaign as

>someone has suggested.

>

 

Not inclined to either.... yet. I tend to think there may be a political motive whether it is the license issue or some other.

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Idle Speculation

 

>Maybe the club should their

>own undertake a background search on applicants? At probably

>$200 or so a pop I think they'd pass on most applicants thus

>changing the profile of the club. Maybe that is what is

>necessary.

 

Not necessarily - they could charge the dancer the $200 for the background check. It would then become the price of admission to the dancer to be able to work there. Other occupations have similar cost involved - treat it as the cost of a union card!

 

fukamarine

[Michael]

RE: Idle Speculation

 

>Not necessarily - they could charge the dancer the $200 for

>the background check. It would then become the price of

>admission to the dancer to be able to work there. Other

>occupations have similar cost involved - treat it as the cost

>of a union card!

 

That is essentially what happens in Toronto.

 

Both the clubs and the dancers / strippers are licensed by the city.

 

It is a condition of the club's license that all dancers / strippers working in the club must also have a license.

 

The license itself costs around $200, includes a background check and has to be renewed annually (for about half the initial fee).

 

Of course, even this isn't foolproof - a friend of mine who used to dance at Remingtons was arrested there during the big police raid that happened some time back in the 90's - fortunately for him he had used a fake id to obtain his license, so he was booked and cherged under the fake id (including fake address, of course) and he simply never showed up for his court date.

 

After two or three months had elapsed he went and got himself a new license using a different fake id and continued working there.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Idle Speculation Turns to Idle Philosophy

 

>... he had used a fake id to obtain his

>license, so he was booked and cherged under the fake id

>(including fake address, of course) and he simply never

>showed up for his court date.

>

>After two or three months had elapsed he went and got himself

>a new license using a different fake id and continued working

>there.

>

I think this makes my point. The club is obligated to make a good-faith effort to observe the laws and regulations. THe 'state' in addition to passing laws must make a good-faith effort to adopt regulations and procedures that permit the clubs to follow the law and regs. To hold the club liable for the state's failure to hold up its end of the bargain not only is unjust is makes the law patently impractical and little more than a tool for enforcement abuse IMO.

 

In this case, what is the good-faith obligation of the club? How much must it do before it is adjudged to be not at fault. That should be a part of the regulations. I wonder if it is... I also doubt it . The real purpose of reguations is to provide a mechanism to implement the laws in a practical and enforceable manner. In my business it is often the case that requirements are promulgated that are unimplementable and untestable. They have to be rewritten if they are to achieve a practical end.

[Guest YFSC]

Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

Saturday's dancers at Taboo:

 

Jerome, Pierre-Luc, Ben, Carlos, Yan, Michael, Damien, Thomas, David, Pierre, Francis and Sylvester.

Three more arrived unusually late, after 11:30: Steven, Anthony and Guillaume.

 

The crowd was good. Probably normal for a weekend night, but since I'm here only from time to time I can't be sure of that.

 

Out in the bar things seem close to normal, but the back room is still much under-utilized. I hope it won't be for too long and that the boys can weather this storm.

 

I was also at the other 3 Village strip bars yesterday (sorry, West Side was too far away and I didn`t have time to go there; maybe another day). The short-lived Nirvana has been closed for several months, as I think was reported here earlier, and according to an employee of the complex that it was in (all apparently the same owners/management) it is not expected to reopen, at least not anytime soon. Maybe 4 strip bars is the Village is enough to soak up the demand.

 

Impressions and results of some conversations with employees and dancers:

 

Adonis: Seemed normal for a Saturday afternoon. I didn't stay too long. Sat. afternoon is auditions and the pace is slow - there are dancerless interludes between the live numbers. An employee told me that there wasn't any noticeable dropoff in patrons after the Taboo raid, but that things have become noticeably more subdued and circumspect in the private dance area. He said that they were *not* expecting further raids of other clubs, but that everyone was being more careful.

 

Campus: I was there both in the afternoon and in the evening. Both times the crowd and the activities seemed normal to me. From my somewhat brief and otherwise-occupied observation of the back room things did not seem to be any different from last year, and seem to have been unaffected by the Taboo raid (!). I was a little surprised.

 

Stock: This was my first time at the New Stock, and I was there too both in the afternoon and the evening. Thin crowd in the afternoon, but packed solid in the evening (late, when I was there). When I was in Montreal last year they had supposedly already moved but that was during the period when they were having license troubles and were "temporarily" operating back at the old location. The new place is very nice, and having just been redone for them the facilities are much nicer and better than at the other bars. The stage is well-designed, with a step-down area and a pole in front, and has counter-style seating built around the perimeter on 3 sides (kind of like a Japanese sushi bar), as well as an ample number of tables and other spaces farther away. There is a spacious backroom area divided into 15-16 roomy 3-walled cubicles, each with a soft chair for the customer, a built-in counter to hold drinks, etc., and the usual stool for the dancer. But the back room seemed under-utilized when I was there, perhaps because of the Taboo raid. Stock had been open 6pm-3am at the new place, but yesterday they opened at 5, and as of today they will be open 3pm-3am every day. So business must be good if they are extending the hours. Both the afternoon and the evening bartenders should have been dancers }( , and some of the dancers should have been bartenders. x( :7 Here too an employee told me that he had not noticed any dropoff of patrons after the Taboo raid.

 

I spoke with a mix of employees and dancers at all 3 of the other bars. None was particularly concerned about a possible raid, but most said that most of the guys were being more careful. One said that people became aware of some regulations in the law that most generally hadn't known about before, and 2 mentioned that erections on stage are not legal (see the earlier comments about that on this thread).

 

For whatever it's worth, and I'm just reporting what they said, 2 of my interlocutors at 2 different bars remarked that they weren't surprised that Taboo had been raided, but that they weren't expecting it "here", because of the overstepping of the legal bounds that was "known" to be going on at Taboo. One even commented that their monitoring is much more watchful than at Taboo. That's hard to believe based on my own prior experience. Taboo monitoring was by far the most active and obtrusive that I ever encountered on various previous visits over the last 10 years or more, and in my experience there were far more excesses and liberties at some of the other bars than at Taboo. (If nothing else, the open and relatively well-lit back room at Taboo makes it much harder for anything to go on than in the darker and more secluded areas at the other bars.) I think that fits in with other people's impressions and experiences that have been mentioned here. In my mind Taboo was not the bar that was "known" for excesses, but I don't live here and am only an occasional visitor. But I'm just passing on what they said. And I didn't question it or react to it with surprise, I just let them say whatever they wanted to.

 

The bottom line? At least for now things seem to be getting back to normal out front at Taboo and there isn't too much anxiety at the other bars. But most backroom dances will probably be more subdued everywhere, at least for a while, and it may take a while before the back room at Taboo gets defrosted.

[Guest CTguy]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

YFSC and nesmontreal thanks for the info. Getting first hand info from you guys is great, I was wondering how things are going seeing that I will be up there Memorial Day weekend. I agree that the back room at Taboo is probably the most monitored of any of the clubs. There is not much you can do with the dancer with "that man" watching your every move. I don't know how many times he has walked over and yelled at me }( The things I've done in the back at Campus during the day I could never get away with at Taboo The one thing I've noticed with Taboo that is different from the other clubs is the stage dances by the dancers are much more erotic. Almost all the dancers have erections, many crawl around on stage showing their ass, you don't see that as much with the other clubs. Not that I'm complaining :9

[marc anthony]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

YFSC: Once again... thanks to you and Nes for all the updates. It is really helpful!

>

>Jerome, Pierre-Luc, Ben, Carlos, Yan, Michael, Damien, Thomas,

>David, Pierre, Francis and Sylvester.

>Three more arrived unusually late, after 11:30: Steven,

>Anthony and Guillaume.

 

LOL... so happy to see that 3 of my favorite cuties (Damien, Thomas, and Pierre) have yet to be deterred!

 

>

>The crowd was good. Probably normal for a weekend night, but

>since I'm here only from time to time I can't be sure of

>that.

 

This is also good news. If business is still good, the place will survive!

 

>

>Out in the bar things seem close to normal, but the back room

>is still much under-utilized. I hope it won't be for too long

>and that the boys can weather this storm.

>

Yes, this is the key. So long as the boys don't give up and leave, time will heal lots of things. I certainly hope it works out. It took me many years and many dollars before I found a place that I can truly call a twink-lovers paradise. Please don't tell me that I will have to start again!

[imrthr]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

It took me many years and many dollars before I

>found a place that I can truly call a twink-lovers paradise.

>Please don't tell me that I will have to start again!

>

 

I, too, hope that Montreal survives its current crisis. If it does not, however, do not fret. You will not have to start over in your hunt for a similar type of bar. You will merely have to travel to one of two other cities that I have visited which have even looser attitudes towards gays than does Montreal (Bangkok, Thailand & Hamburg, Germany). Hamburg is more like Montreal than is Bangkok. Due to its proximity to the US, Montreal is my favorite destination. Lets keep our fingers crossed while we hope for the best.

[Luv2play]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

You don't have to travel to Bangkok or Hamburg to enjoy some pleasant moments with a dancer in a club. Just travel down Ste. Catherine St. to Campus. If you are known to the dancers, as I am, they will let you do pretty much as you please, if the price is right and the moment conducive to some intimacy.

 

I find the late afternoon best, when there is no wait to find a secluded booth in the backroom. Actually, there are two backrooms, the smaller of which is preferable if there are more patrons. I was there very recently (post Taboo raid) and had a wonderful "dance" which concluded with an impressive effluence!!!

 

Now it has to be said that the dancers at Campus are not twinks so this may not appeal to all who frequent this site; but for those who enjoy a more mature, well hung dancer, you can't go wrong!!

[Guest pressyourluck]

RE: Sunday 5/18 at Taboo

 

Sunday, the crowds mostly left after midnight or 12:30am or so. There were not many dancers maybe 8 or 9.

Thomas, Guillaume, Steven, Slyvester, Ghislain, a couple of other guys and two new guys Nick and Mark. Having new guys tell me that they were shorthanded. Also this was the Sunday before Patriot Day, a Canadian holiday.

I would have to say that right now, the situation is in a flux. I think everyone is waiting for the outcome of the trail. Probably after some time passes, things will return to normal but right now, I have heard that many of the boys have quit or are considering quitting dancing there until things improve. Simply, the backroom is not as fun anymore. The boys have to try much harder to get people back there and there is a lot more monitoring of what goes on back there.

In summary and to repeat what others have reported:

Very little touching, no mouth kissing, no hardons/jerking, a big tease with little payoff.

x(

It would be a sad day in Montreal if Taboo goes by the wayside ... but only time will tell.

[bigguyinpasadena]

RE: Sunday 5/18 at Taboo

 

BONJOUR A BELLE MONTREAL!!!!!

Hi guys,finally have a moment to check in from Montreal.The mood for this years Wet andWild is much subdued(sp?)They dod not have a street fair(postponed)and the US dollar is really weak right now.The weather has been FANTASTIC!!!Went to Parc Jean Drapeau yesterday-what beauty=both scenery and men/boys.

I was walked from the holiday inn to a suite at the inter-continetal for a night,very nice.

The clubs have been very slow with the exception of Saturday night.

Taboo is just not worth the torment IMO,watching all the boys dancing and then not being able to get to know them in the "back room" is frustrating=NOTHING GOING ON IN THE BACK,and the boys are hating it.

The other clubs are the same as in the fall-with the exception of the return of MARTIN to campus on weekends.He is the sweetest guy I have met here,have a date with him tonight-can't wait

[jaynnj]

RE: Sunday 5/18 at Taboo to BigGuy of Pasadena

 

Hey thanks for letting us know what going on in Montreal

during Wet and wild. ( I know the name has been changed )

I wanted to go but unfortunatly I could not get our of other

commitments. I hope to get back to Montreal for Gay pride.

I Heard that what happened at Taboos has Not effected the other

clubs which is good news,Would love to hear how the guys from Stock and Campus are doing.

[Guest nesmontreal]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

It's Tuesday 5/20, and Taboo continues . . . to limp along. While it's true that the numbers of dancers and customers are down, in the course of an evening--even Sunday and Monday--a lot people drop by and enjoy the dancers on stage and the company of the dancers and of each other. And some--but not yet nearly enough--enjoy dances in the backroom. There is an obvious effort to adapt. Customers have certainly had to lower their expectations. And one might say that the dancers are re-learning their skills: how to give some pleasure and satisfaction without touching. In a couple of instances, I have told a dancer that, given the present unfortunate circumstances, his dancers were very good--sensual and satisfying. (I realize, of course, that such dances could also be called more frustrating than anything else.)

 

Those of you who have expressed the opinion that Taboo has for a long time been the Montreal club with the strictest monitoring of the private dance room are absolutely right. The unfortunate openness of the big room makes monitoring easy. The doorman (this is what everyone calls the monitor) can stand at the entrance to the room and see every person in it. In the past this situation has been made tolerable by the fact that doormen--some more than others--didn't feel compelled to stand there and watch every move that took place every minute of the night.

 

I believe it is also beyond doubt that Taboo has been more closely scrutinized by the police than any of the other clubs. Police have visited there from time to time (two or three or four, not the 40+ who participated in the raid) and consulted with the manager. (I have always assumed that they were examining club records and dancer ID's, but I don't know that for a fact.) This naturally has led people to seek or invent explanations for the special interest the police seem to have in Taboo. The most common of these "explanations" concerns the apparent youthfulness of many of the dancers at Taboo. That's simply the image that Taboo has--as everybody knows. But as readers here know, other "explanations" can be offered.

 

At the moment, everyone seems to be waiting to see what happens when and after the members of the staff have their day in court. (The date is mid-June; at the moment I can't remember the exact date, but I'll try to get it for you.)

 

Luv2play is absolutely right about Campus-in-the-afternoon. I myself have witnessed no changes there since the Taboo raid. It's true that the dancers there--even the 3-to-9pm dancers--are in general a little older and a little bigger than the typical Taboo dancer. But there are some who qualify handsomely as twinks and who would fit in perfectly at Taboo. I think, for instance, of the dancer who recently won the L'homme Ideal contest. He defines twink in my book (although others may see it differently), but nevertheless beat out some big muscular night-shift dancers in the competition. Surely one important reason for his success was the fact that he is a truly excellent dancer--the best dancer I have ever seen in Montreal strip clubs. He studied various styles of dance, including ballet, in his youth. (Now he's 23!) Moreover, his little brother, age 18, has just started dancing at Campus. And there are at least a half-dozen similar guys there nowadays.

 

As for the other clubs, YFSC's recent report on Adonis and Stock have much more information than anything I could provide.

 

Finally, as for Taboo: there are a lot of people hoping that it survives and flourishes again.

 

nesmontreal

[Guest YFSC]

Sunday and Monday nights 5/18-19 at Taboo

 

Sunday's dancers:

Steven, Thomas, Sylvester, Nick (audition) Ghislain, Andrea, Marco (audition?), Guillaume

 

Monday's dancers:

Michael, Marco, Sylvester, Damien, Justin, Phillip, Vince, Ghislain, Yan

 

Both nights there was a small complement of dancers (8 and 9, instead of 12-14). The Sunday crowd did start to drift away after about 12:30, as someone mentioned (but that may not be unusual), and Monday's house was thin (which also may not be unusual). The smaller numbers are not necessarily indicative of anything yet. Some speculations about both the numbers of dancers and the numbers of customers, both of mine and of some people that I talked to, that may have had an effect on the numbers:

-this is Hot & Dry weekend (the former Wet & Wild), and there may have been other things that people were doing

-Monday was a national holiday in Canada

-the earlier chilly May weather got very warm on Sunday, again leading to the possibility of other activities

-Mondays are probably very slow in any case

 

The back room is still not very well-populated, although it seemed not to be doing so badly on Monday, given the smaller number of dancers and of patrons. But things will need to improve in order for the dancers to survive. We'll see what tonight brings.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Idle Speculation

 

>>Also, Taboo because of its profile invites scrutiny for

>>underage much more than any of the others. For example,

>>nobody in his right mind would imagine that a Campus dancer is

>>underage.

>

>I saw a dancer at campus (daytime) last summer that gave me

>pause. I was very surprised to see him at Campus, but there

>he was and he was workin' it.

 

OK, so read "Stock" for "Campus" if you want. And there may be a couple of younger dancers at Campus especially in the afternoon, but that's not the image that Campus is associated with, whereas it *is* the image that Taboo is associated with.

 

>If this might be ongoing concern (as you say based on club

>profile) then it seems to me that a reasonable way to handle

>this is for the police to send on a surprise basis a

>plain-clothes officer to two into to pull all dancer IDs on

>file and review them. Even if they get tipped there is an

>underage dancer this seems a reasonable approach. TO send

>more than a dozen cars and 40 uniforms to descend on the club

>tells me that was to send a message -- but to whom and for

>what?.

 

I didn't mean to get into a debate on this, and I can't answer for what the cops did or why or how. But I think it's still a little too early to get apprehensive about it. A lot will be told by the outcome of the court cases.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Idle Speculation

 

>>Management may have fulfilled part of its responsibility by

>>requiring an ID, but that still does not absolve them of all

>>responsibility for hiring an underage kid, even if they were

>>legitimately fooled by him.

>>

>

>Where does their respponsibility end? It doesn't occur to me

>what further reasonable and reasonably fool-proof actions they

>could undertake. A birth certificate? It can be faked.

>...

 

See Michael's comment on how it works in Toronto.

 

I don't know the law or the precedents either in Canada or the US on this, but it seems to me that if there is a license involved, then the responsibility falls on the licensing agency and the club or other establishment can depend on requiring evidence of the license, but that in the absence of licensing the responsibility falls back onto the club to make an appropriate check. The question then becomes "How much is appropriate?"

 

>>I wouldn't yet take this as an attack on male strip bars or on

>>twink strip bars, or the start of an anti-gay campaign as

>>someone has suggested.

>>

>

>Not inclined to either.... yet. I tend to think there may be

>a political motive whether it is the license issue or some

>other.

 

That may well be. The liquor license angle was suggested. Another possibility: are there elections coming up soon in Quebec?

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Sunday 5/18 at Taboo

 

>Sunday, the crowds mostly left after midnight or 12:30am or

>so. There were not many dancers maybe 8 or 9.

>Thomas, Guillaume, Steven, Slyvester, Ghislain, a couple of

>other guys and two new guys Nick and Mark. Having new guys

>tell me that they were shorthanded.

 

Not necessarily. The fact that there were new guys does not necessarily mean that. If memory serves, Sunday is audition day at Taboo, and so it is not unusual to have new guys that night, and new guys have to start *sometime*. Obviously they were shorthanded, from the number of dancers, and there may be various reasons for that. I spoke to one dancer who was supposed to dance on Sunday (he had told me a few days earlier that he would be dancing on Sunday), but didn't. Something came up and he couldn't make it, but that is not an indication that he is bailing out.

 

>I would have to say that right now, the situation is in a

>flux. I think everyone is waiting for the outcome of the

>trail.

 

I agree with that.

 

>Probably after some time passes, things will return to

>normal but right now, I have heard that many of the boys have

>quit or are considering quitting dancing there until things

>improve.

 

I agree that with time things will slowly return to normal. I haven't heard that a lot have quit (though it may be true, and there is always a fair amount of turnover). Considering quitting - probably yes: wouldn't you at least consider it, given the situation? Lower income and increased possibility of arrest? But both dancers who were arrested and dancers who weren't there that day remain in place. Including one that I spoke to who had been working there for less than 2 weeks before the raid, who wasn't there the day of the raid, and who is still there and hasn't been scared off.

 

>Simply, the backroom is not as fun anymore. The boys

>have to try much harder to get people back there and there is

>a lot more monitoring of what goes on back there.

 

It's true that there is less "fun" and the boys have to work harder. I don't notice the doorman being more obtrusive than before (he always was more or less obtrusive), but then again both the boys and the patrons are being more careful, so there would be less need for him to interfere.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Saturday night 5/17 at Taboo

 

>It's Tuesday 5/20, and Taboo continues . . . to limp along.

>While it's true that the numbers of dancers and customers are

>down, in the course of an evening--even Sunday and Monday--a

>lot people drop by and enjoy the dancers on stage and the

>company of the dancers and of each other. And some--but not

>yet nearly enough--enjoy dances in the backroom. There is an

>obvious effort to adapt. Customers have certainly had to lower

>their expectations. And one might say that the dancers are

>re-learning their skills: how to give some pleasure and

>satisfaction without touching.

 

I agree with this too.

 

>At the moment, everyone seems to be waiting to see what

>happens when and after the members of the staff have their day

>in court. (The date is mid-June; at the moment I can't

>remember the exact date, but I'll try to get it for you.)

 

This is my impression too, from talking to people and also just from what makes sense. If mempory serves, the date is June 21.

 

>Luv2play is absolutely right about Campus-in-the-afternoon. I

>myself have witnessed no changes there since the Taboo raid.

 

Yes. I observed this too first-hand. And it surprised me, as I remarked earlier. At Campus they seem to be oblivious to what happened.

 

>It's true that the dancers there--even the 3-to-9pm

>dancers--are in general a little older and a little bigger

>than the typical Taboo dancer. But there are some who qualify

>handsomely as twinks and who would fit in perfectly at Taboo.

 

The issue at Taboo was not only underage. It was also the nature of the alleged activities, and that is - or should be - a concern for Campus and other bars too.

[marc anthony]

RE: Sunday and Monday nights 5/18-19 at Taboo

 

>

>Monday's dancers:

>Michael, Marco, Sylvester, Damien, Justin, Phillip, Vince,

>Ghislain, Yan

 

 

From a personal perspective, I can only continue to express my pleasure that Damien is hanging in there. He is extraordinarily handsome, but he had just started dancing for a few weeks before the raid. It is terrific that he has not gotten discouraged, and I can only hope that he hangs in there until I can see him in July... at which point I will give him an "incentive" to stay at Taboo! LOL

I hope you guys are telling him that Mark from the US who took him to Le Club Sandwich is going to make it worth his while to hang around until July... so encourage him to do it!

 

 

>

>The back room is still not very well-populated, although it

>seemed not to be doing so badly on Monday, given the smaller

>number of dancers and of patrons. But things will need to

>improve in order for the dancers to survive. We'll see what

>tonight brings.

 

It is actually encouraging that Taboo has continued to stay open and function, in spite of smaller crowds, fewer dancers, and less back room action. Hopefully the upcoming US holidays (like Memorial day and July 4) will bring tourists, US $$, and some boost to the spirit of the place.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Update

 

I spoke with Pierre-Luc last night.

 

He confirms what we have seen reported by nesmontreal and YFSC. Fewer dancers, crowds down, especially in the back room, seems many come to view the spectacle reported in the news. Boys are making dismal money -- not enough to survive on for long. New rules for stage and back -- I'll go into below. Back room sloooooow. Both dancers and patrons unhappy with new rules. The atmosphere is not optimistic.

 

Club court date is June 21 and dancers Aug 8. The feeling is that if the club is found not guilty of the 'bawdy house' charges then it will stay open and the cases against the dancers will be dismissed. If it is found guilty then the club probably closes and dancers go to trial for real. Many dancers are waiting for the June 21 outcome before they avail themselves of legal help.

 

New rules:

 

On stage: no erections, the dancer cannot touch his body

 

Backroom: no touching no sitting, no erections, just standing and turning dance on pedestal for eyes only.

 

So June 21 is the make or break date it seems. Wish I had better news.

 

Note for those visiting during the Memorial day weekend or other time weekends during this period. This would be a good opportunity to show support and help a favorite or a few out. I know, as Mark does, that onstage tips are very much appreciated (US or CN $), this for those who might be reticient to visit the back room in these times. For others, even if the backroom is not the same, it is an opportunity to offer support and consider it a long term investment in a stock you really like.

[jakobsen]

RE: Update

 

Amen to that! I'll be at Taboo next weekend and will give my moral support both to the club and the dancers. They need us now.