A Lurker No More

[Guest Thunderbuns]

For several months now I have enjoyed this site as a "Lurker", taking advantage of the reviews and enjoying the witty comments and diverse opinions expressed by other members. Today I finally got around to registering for membership and will be "A Lurker No More"

 

I would however like to address the membership with the one question that has been nagging at me for some time. I would assume that the majority of members are either gay or bi. As a gay man we often have to do battle with the "straight" world that does not wish to accept us for who (or what) we are. Why then do WE feel that we have to do battle with other gays? Why can't we be more accepting and understanding of each other? Bitchy comments to other's posts can be very amusing and we can all distinguish when it is done as humour. But some of the exchanges I see here are downright cruel and bitter. Come on guys - we are all in this lifestyle together! Why can't we be more supportive of our gay brothers diverse opinions? Disagree if we must, but lets not get lethal about it. If I am ever guilty of that here, I hope one of you reminds me of this message.

 

OK already - enough! Glad to be aboard and hope to make a couple of cyber friends as well.

[+ Lucky]

Welcome. I hope you make a lot of cyber friends as well. I was pretty dumbfounded when another lurker posted a nice comment about me and was attacked by that idiot truth teller and the asshole CraigSF39. Don't ask me what brought on those attacks, but be prepared. Certain people just lurk about waiting to attack.

[Guest CraigSF39]

i agree, of course theres a gay community, its all around us. in SF gays see each other as brothers because were fighting a comon cause against oppresion. i love when i can hold my gay brothers hand and march or sing and know im marching for equalness.

 

happy kwanzaa to you to!!!!!!!

 

africa is about life, giving, love. kwanzaa is life, kwanzaa is love. let us all pay respect and admiration to our african american citizens, they deserve it after whta theyve been put thru!!!!!!!

[Guest Les]

Hi and welcome!;-)

[Guest Kevin 2]

Welcome aboard! Hopefully you won't get attacked right away. ;-)

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Welcome aboard! Hopefully you won't get attacked right away.

>;-)

 

Hey Kevin 2 - don't worry - I have VERY thick skin. It will take more that a bitchy comment to ruin my day!;-)

[Guest Viewmaster]

>we are all in this

>lifestyle together! Why can't we be more supportive of our

>gay brothers diverse opinions?

 

This is a nice thought, but I'm not sure it's realistic, any more than it would be realistic to expect all straight people to get along simply because of the sexual common denominator that they share. We, too, are a diverse group, and as such will have diverse thoughts, not all of which we can support. At the end of the day the only behaviour(and writing)one can control is ones own, so if you keep your comments "clean" you should be able to exist here with ease.

[Guest TruthTeller]

Leaving aside the patronizing notion that all gay people have to like one another all because we're gay (similar to the noxious idea that black people should be nicer to one another than to others because they all share the same race), substantial numbers of men who participate here are not gay at all, at least not in the political/cultural sense that you're referencing.

 

As any escort will tell you, many of the participants here (and other patrons of escorts) are closeted and pretend to be straight - complete with the wife and kids - and come to Internet sites like this to exploit and take from the work of those people who don't hide in their life. Countless other differences besides this one pervade the users of this board.

 

The only real commonality among the people who patronize this site is that they all like cock - hardly a basis for building some harmonious, communal love fest.

[Guest Stefano]

>Leaving aside the patronizing notion that all gay people

>have to like one another all because we're gay (similar to

>the noxious idea that black people should be nicer to one

>another than to others because they all share the same

>race), substantial numbers of men who participate here are

>not gay at all, at least not in the political/cultural sense

>that you're referencing.

 

First Off, Welcome... This is a community of all seasons...We have bright and sunny days and storms that are sometimes beyond any comparison. But for the most part it's pretty typical 'round these parts. We have the white hats and the black hats that thrive on shitting on the white hats. Then we have the bystanders that (well if I have to explain what they do for anyone in here, get out)! Just kidding.... But I do agree with TT's first comment as I do with alot of his comments. But for the first time I am publicly speaking up to say so...... It is absolutely unrealistic for a community of such diversity (going beyond the sexual preference that is) to live in harmony. Sad truths are a part of life even in the cyber world.

>

>As any escort will tell you, many of the participants here

>(and other patrons of escorts) are closeted and pretend to

>be straight - complete with the wife and kids - and come to

>Internet sites like this to exploit and take from the work

>of those people who don't hide in their life. Countless

>other differences besides this one pervade the users of this

>board.

>

 

It's internet sites like this that allow people to explore parts of their life that they may have never taken the opportunity to in their entire life. Of course there may be people that exploit the services a bit but I haven't had any of these guys as one of my clients.

 

>The only real commonality among the people who patronize

>this site is that they all like cock - hardly a basis for

>building some harmonious, communal love fest.

 

Wow, your way with words TT. It does something to me that I can't explain. It's like I wanna tie myself up, gag myself, light hundreds of candles, and then get the wax.....well like I said I can't explain it.

 

Anyway, to close, welcome and it's nice to have you here. There may be fights on here but in truth it only showshow passionate these people are about this site and it's issues.

 

Mike ;-)~

[Will]

Thunderbuns, I hope you'll post here as often as you like, regardless of the responses you get.

 

It would probably be a mistake to look for some kind of commonality here. As Truth Teller says, there are all sorts and conditions of men on M4M, brought together only by their common interest in escorts. Otherwise, there's as much diversity as you'd find in any large gathering of men. It seems to me that the term "gay community" is an oxymoron.

 

Some of those men like to assume a bloody-minded persona that, perhaps, they don't allow themselves except anonymously. Others, like me, are probably pretty much the same both in and out of cyberspace. Some of us are young, fully out, and genuinely at home in our own skins. Others are older, still-closeted, and not terribly comfortable with the whole thing. The range of attitudes on M4M covers the spectrum from THE BOYS IN THE BAND to QUEER AS FOLK, with a lot in between.

 

I try to remember what a gay psychotherapist once said to me in response to a question identical to yours. He reminded me that many gay men have been deeply and repeatedly wounded in their lives, and that it is hard for people like that to get along with each other. Whether or not I agree, it does help when I can hardly believe that I'm reading some of the things people allow themselves to say to other human beings on this site.

 

Even so, I have struck up private correspondences with several regulars on this site; and, within the limits of pen-pal correspondence, I can say that I'm beginning to make some new friends. I hope you will, too, and I join the others in bidding you welcome.

[duke37]

And some people get the inspiration here to come out of the closet to their friends and family.

 

You're right the place is pretty diverse. Sometimes that diversity is challenging sometimes inspiring but seldom dull.

 

Welcome, Jeff

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>substantial numbers of men who participate here are

>not gay at all, at least not in the political/cultural sense

>that you're referencing.

 

Please note that I said "gay or bi"

 

>As any escort will tell you, many of the participants here

>(and other patrons of escorts) are closeted and pretend to

>be straight - complete with the wife and kids

 

Would they then not fall into the catagory of "bi"?

 

>The only real commonality among the people who patronize

>this site is that they all like cock - hardly a basis for

>building some harmonious, communal love fest.

 

Once again - not to belabour the point - if we/they all like cock as you state, either they are gay or bi. You can't have it both ways. If you "like cock" then you ain't straight!

 

And who ever mentioned a love fest? Common courtesy would be nice.

[Guest jeffOH]

Welcome Thunderbuns!

 

Please note that I said "gay or bi"

>As any escort will tell you, many of the participants here

>(and other patrons of escorts) are closeted and pretend to

>be straight - complete with the wife and kids

 

Would they then not fall into the catagory of "bi"?

 

No, they wouldn't. At least that has been my experience. Most of the married men I have seen as clients are really just gay men who got married. Some men believe that just because they get married, stick their cock in some pussy and make some babies...they're "bi". I think most people who identify themselves as bi, aren't.

 

Happy New Year!

JEFF

jeff4hire@aol.com

[+ Lucky]

With all the above having been said, how did you choose that name Thunderbuns? Sounds exciting to me...

[Guest TruthTeller]

>Please note that I said "gay or bi"

 

What you actually said was: "As a gay man we often have to do battle with the "straight" world that does not wish to accept us for who (or what) we are."

 

And: "Come on guys - we are all in this lifestyle together!"

 

And: "Why can't we be more supportive of our gay brothers diverse opinions?"

 

I don't consider some person who pretends not to be gay - and is "gay" only when it comes time secretely to acquire cock - to be my "gay brother." Even with regard to openly gay people, I don't find "brotherhood" simply because someone else is gay. People are INDIVIDUALS, not group units. People should be treated as individuals, not group units.

 

>And who ever mentioned a love fest? Common courtesy would

>be nice.

 

I think the only point I was making - and the point others were making -- is that a person is not more or less entitled to "common coutersy" based on their sexual orietnation. The treatment a person is accorded should be determined by the individuals' conduct, not by the group to which they belong.

[Guest TruthTeller]

>Wow, your way with words TT. It does something to me that I

>can't explain. It's like I wanna tie myself up, gag myself,

>light hundreds of candles, and then get the wax.....

 

Don't worry, Mikey. You wouldn't have to be bothered doing any of those things to yourself - I would be happy to do all of them for you. That's the kind of guy I am.

 

>But I do agree with TT's first comment as I do

>with alot of his comments. But for the first time I am

>publicly speaking up to say so......

 

That's VERY brave of you to confess. When CP37089 once accidentally agreed with me, he said it felt like he was aligning himself with Osama bin Laden. That got my cock hard. That you "publicly spoke up to say so" only with such trepidation (but bravery) also really got me hot, especially when looking at that new (innocent yet underlyingly sleazy) pic of yours.

[Guest RydeMyButt]

Hi all,

As a former lurker myself who has just recently begun to post one or two messages, I echo to a point Thunderbun's comments, except to the point regarding his concept of the "gay community".

 

>It would probably be a mistake to look for some kind of

>commonality here. As Truth Teller says, there are all sorts

>and conditions of men on M4M, brought together only by their

>common interest in escorts. Otherwise, there's as much

>diversity as you'd find in any large gathering of men. It

>seems to me that the term "gay community" is an oxymoron.

 

Not to belabor the point made so well by others (which I will do anyway...), there is no such thing as "the gay community". This term usually only gets trotted out when some pompous demagogue steps forward as a self-appointed spokesmen (usually for personal aggrandizement or fundraising purposes) who all us poor repressed masses are supposed to follow in lock-step obedience.

 

Put another way: How much communal feelings do you have for members of...hmmm....let's say...NAMBLA, or Log Cabin, or the various other sub-groups upon whom the majority of gays seem to heap their scorn (some deserved, and others not)?

 

By the way...welcome to the community of hookers, tricks, and those that admire them!

 

Cheers-

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>With all the above having been said, how did you choose that

>name Thunderbuns? Sounds exciting to me...

 

Well - I didn't exactly choose it myself - it is a nickname some friends gave me after I had won a contest in a bar for best bubblebutt. It started out as a wet jockey shorts contest that got somewhat out of hand:)

 

And it just kinda stuck after that.........

[Traveller]

>Put another way: How much communal feelings do you have for

>members of...hmmm....let's say...NAMBLA, or Log Cabin, or

>the various other sub-groups upon whom the majority of gays

>seem to heap their scorn (some deserved, and others not)?

 

Here at the Board, we really have no feelings for NAMBLA or Log Cabin or much else besides how many muslims were you able to bag that day and what was your kill ratio; and a word to the wise, if your ratio stays below 80% for very many days, Hoo and the moderators will start to censor you. Look at poor IM. It was taking him a box of shells to shoot a single muslim. He's been censored for weeks now.

 

But getting back to cock, how big was Sean, the dude you just posted about in the Masseurs section - a place I rarely visit. I've always liked that pic and wanted to play with him. Unsettling that you don't remember if you blew him or not. Doesn't auger well.

 

Later.

 

PS. From your handle, if you're ever in NYC and looking for a great ride, private email me. Any flavor you're looking for, except hobbits.

[Guest cp8036]

Welcome.

 

As said above is diverse group here, it is a reflection of the diversity of gay men in real life. I agree with the comment from TT, you cannot assume we will be nice to each other because we are all gay. The whole concept of "forced comraderie" is a bit shallow. Once I visited a meeting for a club of gay pilots. I had less in common with them as I do with the local school board.

 

I never take any negative comment too seriously. While are some good points raised here, most of this is just entertainment. The whole concept of m4m sex is about recreation and/or entertainment -- for clients at least. Why someone would get too bent of shape from a nasty comment on this web site, all the while using anonymous names, is beyond me. Keep things in check guys.

 

If there were not opposing ideas, this place would be so boring. While some folks seem rude, others polite, it is the difference in character alone that makes it more interesting.

 

TT I am flattered that something about me made your cock hard. This is truely a blessed holiday.

 

Mike: Happy Holidays. TT is right, was brave to speak out and agree with the comments of someone that is not viewed as being friendly. Often people forget the real content of a message, and fret about the politeness of it all. More of my admiration to bestow.

[Bilbo]

Welcome, Thunderbuns. I used to know a Thunder Thighs here in Houston. Any relation?

 

I disagree with many of the rest. I think that there is a gay community. Unlike some who think that you should move away from any community with which you share several points of major disagreement, I like the good old American stew pot. (Not the melting pot, I don't want us all to be like each other, at all - bo=ring.)

 

I wink at or quietly support things which seem to be of interest to other gay people, male and female. I will never want to have children and my lover feels the same way, but I can support other gay people's rights to adopt. My drug consumption, Traveller, is limited to the occaisional poppers, but I support the end of the War on Drugs, noneffective and expensive as it has been. In return, I expect some of my issues, perhaps particularly gay marital rights, to be supported by those who want to remain single all their lives.

 

When does that unspoken agreement kick in in my mind? When you become gay. I don't think that you are gay just because you have homosexual interests (like where is my next piece of ass coming from?). To me to become gay you have to accept and be proud of yourself. And even though I don't knowingly let men living in closed relationships hire me, I do believe that closeted people are the group I most feel the call to serve. To help them, for themselves, to become gay. And to diffuse them, for us all, as closets are among the most dangerous people to us.

 

As I recently said to a new friend who is a porn actor, course, I was feeling a bit outclassed at the time, "So, while you were playing around with the other professionals, I was ministering to the closets."

[Guest RydeMyButt]

>Here at the Board, we really have no feelings for NAMBLA or

>Log Cabin or much else besides how many muslims were you

>able to bag that day and what was your kill ratio; and a

>word to the wise, if your ratio stays below 80% for very

>many days, Hoo and the moderators will start to censor you.

>Look at poor IM. It was taking him a box of shells to shoot

>a single muslim. He's been censored for weeks now.

 

I have a very high kill ratio...my daddy taught his little boy how to kill small and medium-sized animals at a very early age (though he always said use a knife if you can - bullets cost money). As for Muslims...to be honest, though, I prefer going after the women...that little breathing net on the burkha serves as a GREAT bullseye!

 

>But getting back to cock, how big was Sean, the dude you

>just posted about in the Masseurs section - a place I rarely

>visit. I've always liked that pic and wanted to play with

>him. Unsettling that you don't remember if you blew him or

>not. Doesn't auger well.

 

Sean/Dave has a GREAT cock. He was thick and big...I'd say about 8.5 inches, which, of course, translates into a real-live six to seven inches. And as for the failures of my memory...quel frommage...

 

Cheers...

[phage]

Craig, these “rayshist fasists” are everywhere on the board and now that darn Traveller has brought another one of them out of his Muslim killing closet. You really MUST do something. Telling them how sick and disgusting they are doesn’t seem to be working and I think you need to escalate your campaign of political correctness. Perhaps you can question their parentage or talk about their mamas. If that fails, there is nothing left except Anthrax.

[Guest TruthTeller]

>I try to remember what a gay psychotherapist once said to me

>in response to a question identical to yours. He reminded

>me that many gay men have been deeply and repeatedly wounded

>in their lives, and that it is hard for people like that to

>get along with each other.

 

Oh, yes - this brilliant psychoanalytical theory explains why heterosexuals get along so nicely with one another, and barely every fight with or do harm to other heterosexuals. An inability to play together nicely is definitely the unique province of gay people, due to the grievous wounds we've suffered.

 

Viewing "gay people" (the Group) as being somehow uniquely victimized or "wounded" is roughly as sensible as spewing broad, generalized psychological pronouncements to explain the behavior of "gay people" (the Group). Both fallacies lead to facially absurd conclusions, such as the one you've conveyed.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

Holy Shit - I never expected so many replies to my first post.

 

Many thanks to those who took the time to welcome me.

 

The subject of how we should treat our gay/bi brothers has generated many diverse opinions. Different opinions are healthy and I always welcome the opportunity to hear those that differ from my own.

 

One member has quoted me as saying such & such. I think it should be the responsibility of someone who is replying to a message to get the quote right and not just selectivily quote the part that suits his purpose. Enough said!

 

I agree with those who argue that we are a part of a "community". We have struggled long and hard against a society who had by and large refused to recognise us as as equals. If it were not for the Stone Wall riots it would have taken us much longer to arrive at where we are today. If all that toil and struggle does not make us a community

then I don't know what will.

 

I live my life as an open gay man and am thankful to those that have made it possible. If others among us do not feel they belong to "The Community" - so be it. In my opinion, it is their loss.

 

The initial point that I was trying to make was that I feel that everyone has the right to expect to be respected. That does not mean we all have to agree with each other. There are people in this group that from reading their past correspondence, I have decided I don't care for. If I feel strongly enough about a particular person in the future I reserve the right to challenge them, as I'm sure I will be challenged by others. But it can be done with respect, civilly and without lowering ourselves to the level that I have witnessed in recent weeks. Somewhat along the lines of a college debating society.

I feel that in a debate (or exchange of opinions) as soon as you loose your cool - you loose the argument!

 

So once again - thanks for the welcome. Looks like '02 will be a fun year!

 

Thunderbuns

 

P.S. I wish this e mail had a spell checker............:-)