Tolerance or Acceptance by Straight Society

[phage]

My personal philosophy has always been that I don’t give a damn whether I am accepted by the straight world but I DEMAND to be tolerated. I actually enjoy being outside the mainstream and my only objection to “Queer as Folk” is that they are giving away some of our “secrets” to a straight world that I would prefer to remain clueless. Not because I’m ashamed of any of them…just because they are our secrets and that’s part of the fun of being sexual outlaws.

 

A couple months ago there was an editorial in the ‘Advocate’ by Norah Vincent espousing the same basic philosophy. She went on to use it as a foundation for her belief that hate crimes legislation is unnecessary. My opinions about sexual orientation and hate crimes are ill formed, but I was surprised by some of the letters that were written in response to her editorial.

 

Many people seem to feel that tolerance is not enough. That it is somehow condescending and anything less than full acceptance means that we acknowledge some sort of inferiority. They feel we need to strive to be welcomed at the table as if there is nothing different about us and the lives we lead.

 

I know there are many gays and lesbians who choose to live mainstream suburban lives that mirror their straight role models in most ways. More power to them. I simply don’t believe it is a necessary or realistic goal to strive for acceptance by a majority that simply can’t relate to us. As long as we have the legal protections necessary to lead our lives…what’s wrong with being on the outside? Do you want to be a generic American who just happens to have sex with men? Would that be a good thing in your book?

[Guest Viewmaster]

>Do you want

>to be a generic American who just happens to have sex with

>men? Would that be a good thing in your book?

 

There were so many questions raised in your post, but these 2 stood out for me. While I may not know eactly what you have meant by being a "generic" American, my gut response to to say "No frigging way". But my sexual activity with men is probably the least likely personal trait that would put me outside the box to the rest of the world. I say that for the simple reason that most people do not witness me having sex with men, but they do witness a zillion other behaviors, and it is on those behaviors that most would conclude that I march to a different drummer. So be it. While I can recognize on an intellectual level that some of my behaviors may strike many as eccentric, at the same time they really are quite normal to me on a personal level for the simple reason that they are the only behaviors that I am actually living.

 

As for any of this being good or bad, I usually stay away from those judgements. Very few behaviors in life have any intrinisic good or bad to them; I tend to think in terms of differences, and whether I want the differences living close to me or not.

[DaninWA]

As

>long as we have the legal protections necessary to lead our

>lives…what’s wrong with being on the outside?

 

Well said, but we don't all have the legal protections necessary to lead our lives. Far too many gay people are subject to harassment, arbitrary eviction and firing, physical abuse, and death. The authorities ignore it and allow the perpetrators to go free because we're gay. In large numbers of towns and cities throughout the country, we have no rights. As far as they are concerned, we deserve anything we get.

[CT Dick]

>Many people seem to feel that tolerance is not enough. That

>it is somehow condescending and anything less than full

>acceptance means that we acknowledge some sort of

>inferiority.

 

And, I'm one of them. I see the gay community as like the Jewish and African-American communities. Why should they or we ask for basic rights. We're guaranteed them in the Constitution, dammit.

 

For the majority to 'tolerate' us certainly is a condescension.

 

And, acceptance does not have to mean absortpion into the common, average, American mold. Jews can choose to live isolated and separate lives in Borough Park, Brooklyn just as we can do so in W.Hollywood, Ptown, Wilton Manors, etc. Likewise, blacks can choose to move into the suburbs and drive their kids to soccer practice in an SUV just as we should be able to.

 

Emphatically,

Dick

[DaninWA]

I used to live in Wilton Manors, FL years ago. It was the most straight, working-class area I had seen before moving to eastern Washington. When did it become an area where gay people can live separately from straight people?

[trilingual]

Sorry, but our rights AREN'T guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. The Supreme Court has repeatedly made it clear that we aren't a protected group entitled to any rights under the Constitution. Even such a basic right as being able to have consensual sex with another adult man in the privacy of our own bedrooms. The Court has also made it that we have no rights in the absence of any specific legislation granting such rights. In other words, the rights that apply to heterosexuals don't apply to us. We have to get special legislation in order to assure that we're treated equally. Given the current composition of the Supreme Court, and the dismal prospects if Bush gets to appoint another Justice, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Supreme Court to revisit their earlier shameful decisions and change their mind.

 

That isn't the same in many states, where the State Supreme Courts have ruled that their State Constitutions provide higher levels of protection than the U.S. Constitution does and have used that to extend some protections straight people have.

[Guest tmbg]

I do not feel being a Gay man puts me on the fringe of society. I try to live in a positive way and regardless of my sexual preferences. Within my world there is no overwhelming need to be accepted by "straight" or "gay" specific people. It's simply nice to be accepted as I am by whoever.

 

Cheers! Ritchie

[+ Charlie]

What is a "generic American"? A suburban WASP? A Black Muslim in Detroit? A snake-handling evangelical in Appalachia? There are plenty of characteristics that make me different from other Americans besides my sexual orientation. Many Americans do not accept one another in any significant social sense. The only "acceptance" I am interested in is acceptance of the fact that I should have the same legal and political rights as any other American citizen. Which means that what I really want is recognition of that fact by the courts and legislative bodies, and a willingness by the executive branch to defend me when other citizens trample on my rights. Toleration is as far as I am willing to go for right wing bigots--or even for people who use cell phones in restaurants--but I accept that they have the same Constitutional rights that I have, or should have.

[Guest regulation]

>I know there are many gays and lesbians who choose to live

>mainstream suburban lives that mirror their straight role

>models in most ways. More power to them. I simply don’t

>believe it is a necessary or realistic goal to strive for

>acceptance by a majority that simply can’t relate to us. As

>long as we have the legal protections necessary to lead our

>lives…what’s wrong with being on the outside? Do you want

>to be a generic American who just happens to have sex with

>men? Would that be a good thing in your book?

 

Do you think of yourself as an American who is part of the same community as all other Americans? Do you feel any sense of loyalty or obligation to that community? If so, why do you want to be "on the outside"? If not, why do you live in America? There are other countries in which tolerance of homosexuality is far more widespread than in America. If tolerance is all you seek, why not move to one of those countries?

[Guest soccerstud]

With due respect, I totally disagree that we don't have the same rights as heteros unless they're given to us by special legislation. Despite the worst Supreme Court in history, the Bill of Rights applies to all of us. The Romer decision a few years back (re the Colorado voters' initiative to eliminate gay rights) invalidating that initiative is loud testimony that even this Court can't trample on our--or others'-- basic rights. Yes, we can argue about the states rights-oriented case upholding state laws against private, consenual sodomy, and this Court won't give us anything unless it's a blatant infringement. But in many states gays have the same employment discrimination rights and certainly harassment rights as straights. And I also have faith (OK, call me naive) that a balanced court in the future will correct the philosophically inconsistent conservative agenda of this court. (The right-wing bastards trumpet states and individual rights, but won't uphold the Oregon death with dignity act or the California marijuana health initiative, both of which were voted upon by the people (state rights) and deal with fundamental individual rights. A philosophy that inconsistent will ultimately topple of its own weight.)

And in my never-to-be humble opinion, none of us should stand for merely being tolerated. If each of us doesn't get out and fight for equal rights wherever they are threatened (look at the coalition of gays and straights fighting in so many communities against the Boy Scouts and their evil (at least in this respect) Mormon sponsors), it will be our own fault if we can't live where we want to live, work where we want to work, and marry whom we want to marry. We may not have it all now, but it's coming. We just have to work for it. (I'm a veteran of the '60's and know that fighting for one's rights does work. It just takes time and effort and political awareness.)

[phage]

I’m not quite following you…

 

>Do you think of yourself as an American who is part of the

>same community as all other Americans?

 

Only at the most macro level. It takes something like the September 11th attack to remind me that I have anything in common with the mainstream. I go to work each day and feel like I walk among “them” and then go back to my life. Believe me, I’m not complaining. I’m very happy that way which is why all I ask is to be left alone to lead my life and have no need to be accepted with open arms.

 

>Do you feel any

>sense of loyalty or obligation to that community? If so,

>why do you want to be "on the outside"?

 

Loyalty to this country and its ideals…yes. Obligation to someone else’s idea of community…no. It has offended people in the past when I made disparaging comments about nuclear families, suburbia and mini-vans, and I’m sure it’s a wonderful life for a lot of people, but these are the things of my nightmares. I love that fact that just because I suck dick…I get an automatic “pass” on these things if I want it. Life on the outside.

 

>If not, why do you

>live in America? There are other countries in which

>tolerance of homosexuality is far more widespread than in

>America. If tolerance is all you seek, why not move to one

>of those countries?

 

I assume this is a genuine question and not one of those ignorant “if you don’t like it, why don’t you leave?” kind of comments. I’m an American by birth and choice. I can trace my roots back many, many generations (You know Mormons and genealogy!) and have no desire to live anywhere else. I’m not sure how stating that I would be content with just being tolerated and left alone by the straight American mainstream would suggest that I would be happier in a more tolerant foreign country.

[Guest regulation]

>Only at the most macro level. It takes something like the

>September 11th attack to remind me that I have anything in

>common with the mainstream. I go to work each day and feel

>like I walk among “them” and then go back to my life.

 

That sounds rather sad. You sound as though you think of yourself as a spy in an enemy country.

 

>Loyalty to this country and its ideals…yes. Obligation to

>someone else’s idea of community…no. It has offended people

>in the past when I made disparaging comments about nuclear

>families, suburbia and mini-vans, and I’m sure it’s a

>wonderful life for a lot of people, but these are the things

>of my nightmares. I love that fact that just because I suck

>dick…I get an automatic “pass” on these things if I want it.

> Life on the outside.

 

I haven't been offended by your comments about suburbia, but they do indicate a reluctance on your part to extend to others the tolerance you demand from them. If you disparage the way others live, you shouldn't complain if they do the same to you.

 

I don't know whether you live in a suburb or a city, but wherever your home is, do you not feel ties to the other people who live there with you? Do you not share their concerns? Do you not value some of the same things about that place that they value? Do you not want to help maintain and preserve those things that all of you care about? If the answer to these questions is "No," then you are not part of that community in any sense of the word. Which makes me wonder why you would want to live there.

 

 

>I assume this is a genuine question and not one of those

>ignorant “if you don’t like it, why don’t you leave?” kind

>of comments.

 

 

What is "ignorant" about asking someone why they want to live in America? Unlike some countries, America does not place any restrictions on the ability of its citizens to leave if they are unhappy. So everyone is here by choice.

 

>I’m an American by birth and choice. I can

>trace my roots back many, many generations (You know Mormons

>and genealogy!) and have no desire to live anywhere else.

>I’m not sure how stating that I would be content with just

>being tolerated and left alone by the straight American

>mainstream would suggest that I would be happier in a more

>tolerant foreign country.

 

It seems obvious to me. If all you want from life is tolerance of your sexual habits, it would make sense for you to live in a place that offers such an environment. But your answer indicates that you want more than just tolerance of your homosexuality.

[phage]

>My understanding of the phrase "take to task" is that it

>means to criticize. That's not what I'm doing. You offered

>this topic for discussion. I'm discussing it.

 

I don’t in any way feel you are being critical. Perhaps “challenged” is a better word and I enjoy it very much. I tend to think I have all kinds of things figured out so I like having the holes pointed out. It confirms the one thing that I am certain of and that is that there is always more to figure out.

 

>I don't know whether the word "disparage" that I used

>accurately reflects what you believe. I used it because I

>read some comments from you on the "breeder" lifestyle in a

>thread about Thanksgiving observances that sounded very

>disparaging of straight people.

 

That wasn’t a particularly well written post and it is the same one I was referring to when I said that I had offended some people. My point was for him to look on the bright side of being gay and I WAS pretty disparaging about straight people. It works for me because of my personal feelings about living that lifestyle. It’s not the heterosexual part. It’s the trappings of a middleclass, suburban lifestyle that I would find unpleasant. I fully realize that many people do not share this opinion, but every time I get a dose of the lives my brothers and sisters lead…I never envy the fact that they are all coupled off and always feel very content with my own situation.

 

>Not really. Everyone who lives in the same place has

>certain common concerns, although not everyone recognizes

>those concerns. Who are your neighbors? Do you know them?

>Do they know you? If you needed help would they help you?

>Would you help them?

 

Actually, I only know them in passing to nod “hello.” Would I help them in an emergency? Certainly. Would I accept a package for them? Sure. Would I help them move? No. I have friends and family that I count on for anything of real importance and I keep the neighbors at a distance. I thought that was fairly typical of urban life.

 

>Isn't that what it means to be part of a community?

 

Yes, that does sound like a community to me, but it affirms the fact that I am not part of one. I think this is consistent with the fact that all I want from those people is to be tolerated – don’t interfere with my life, cause me no harm, and I will do the same for them. It gets tricky when you are talking about issues like same-sex marriage, but I am content to work through the courts to effect change. I don’t think I should have to concern myself with all of their issues in order to get mine addressed. I guess that could be considered self-centered, or maybe even self-absorbed, but I stay pretty focussed on issues that affect me and mine.

 

>If you feel you are not part of the same society as people

>who do not share your sexual preference, to me that seems

>like a problem. Especially since you have to rely on those

>people to provide services that you need. If your office

>building is bombed, should straight firefighters and

>policemen feel they have enough in common with you that they

>should be willing to run into the burning building to save

>you, or should they just restrict themselves to saving

>straight people?

 

I understand your point but I’m not sure this is a good example. I would expect straight firefighters and policemen to do their job. They should put as much effort into saving me as they would any other tax-paying stranger that they know nothing about.

[phage]

Well, you certainly are making me stop and think. I very much appreciate your thoughtful responses. (Don’t you have a reputation for being a little “rough” on this board?) I am not often called to task anymore. I’m the boss at work so nobody challenges me much there, and believe it or not, I’m the “cerebral” one among my friends so they don’t really go there either. (I suppose that says something about my friends if I’m the cerebral one… )

 

>That sounds rather sad. You sound as though you think of

>yourself as a spy in an enemy country.

 

I never thought of it that way, but it feels very right. I suppose it is a factor of not being out at work. I get up, don my work persona, and wade through the day. It’s not an enemy camp but they clearly are not of my tribe.

 

>I haven't been offended by your comments about suburbia, but

>they do indicate a reluctance on your part to extend to

>others the tolerance you demand from them. If you disparage

>the way others live, you shouldn't complain if they do the

>same to you.

 

This has come up before. No matter how many disclaimers I add about that kind of life being great for the people who want it…I don’t seem to be able to communicate how utterly wrong they are for me without seeming judgmental. It is a big issue with me and I suppose my language is always too strong. Obviously, most people don’t dread becoming a gay version of their parents the way I do.

 

>I don't know whether you live in a suburb or a city, but

>wherever your home is, do you not feel ties to the other

>people who live there with you? Do you not share their

>concerns? Do you not value some of the same things about

>that place that they value? Do you not want to help

>maintain and preserve those things that all of you care

>about? If the answer to these questions is "No," then you

>are not part of that community in any sense of the word.

>Which makes me wonder why you would want to live there.

 

This is very, very difficult. I’ve been staring at the keyboard for 15 minutes trying to form a response. My first thought was “everyone has to live somewhere” but that’s too easy. I am not a recluse…I have friends that I care about…I socialize…and have recently decided to stay in San Diego rather than relocate to New York…so obviously I have some sense of community if I throw the net wide enough. Do you think a group of friends constitutes a community?

 

>What is "ignorant" about asking someone why they want to

>live in America? Unlike some countries, America does not

>place any restrictions on the ability of its citizens to

>leave if they are unhappy. So everyone is here by choice.

 

It’s only ignorant when the implication is that if you DON’T love it…you SHOULD leave it. In truth, I recognize that being (or at least feeling like) an outsider is very much in my nature. I would take that with me to any place I lived.

 

>It seems obvious to me. If all you want from life is

>tolerance of your sexual habits, it would make sense for you

>to live in a place that offers such an environment. But

>your answer indicates that you want more than just tolerance

>of your homosexuality.

 

There is much more that I want from life – just nothing more that I want from straight society. (God, I do sound antisocial. Maybe it’s just a phase.)

[Guest regulation]

>Well, you certainly are making me stop and think. I very

>much appreciate your thoughtful responses. (Don’t you have

>a reputation for being a little “rough” on this board?)

 

My reputation for roughness is largely due to the fact that a lot of people who post here lack the emotional maturity to see disagreement on an issue as anything other than a personal attack. In one particularly memorable thread started by Stephan Lacoste, for example, the issue was whether one can be arrested for prostitution based on actions that occur in one's own home. My contribution was the simple statement that there is only one sure way to avoid arrest for that crime, and that is not to commit it. The responses I received were overwhelmingly hostile, some even hateful, and most seemed to assume that I had expressed sentiments that were nowhere to be found in my post. People often seem to project on me their own fears and anxieties, whether or not those feelings have anything to do with anything I've said.

 

>I

>am not often called to task anymore. I’m the boss at work

>so nobody challenges me much there, and believe it or not,

>I’m the “cerebral” one among my friends so they don’t really

>go there either. (I suppose that says something about my

>friends if I’m the cerebral one… )

 

My understanding of the phrase "take to task" is that it means to criticize. That's not what I'm doing. You offered this topic for discussion. I'm discussing it.

 

>It is a

>big issue with me and I suppose my language is always too

>strong. Obviously, most people don’t dread becoming a gay

>version of their parents the way I do.

 

I don't know whether the word "disparage" that I used accurately reflects what you believe. I used it because I read some comments from you on the "breeder" lifestyle in a thread about Thanksgiving observances that sounded very disparaging of straight people.

 

>This is very, very difficult. I’ve been staring at the

>keyboard for 15 minutes trying to form a response. My first

>thought was “everyone has to live somewhere” but that’s too

>easy. I am not a recluse…I have friends that I care about…I

>socialize…and have recently decided to stay in San Diego

>rather than relocate to New York…so obviously I have some

>sense of community if I throw the net wide enough. Do you

>think a group of friends constitutes a community?

 

 

Not really. Everyone who lives in the same place has certain common concerns, although not everyone recognizes those concerns. Who are your neighbors? Do you know them? Do they know you? If you needed help would they help you? Would you help them?

 

You say you live in California? Last year the voters in California passed a referendum outlawing same-sex marriage. Do you know how the people in your community voted? Do they know your concerns about this issue? And what do you know about their concerns? If they have children, I assume they are concerned about the local school system. Are you concerned about it? If you expect them to pay attention to your concerns, shouldn't you be paying attention to theirs? Isn't that what it means to be part of a community?

 

>There is much more that I want from life – just nothing more

>that I want from straight society. (God, I do sound

>antisocial. Maybe it’s just a phase.)

 

If you feel you are not part of the same society as people who do not share your sexual preference, to me that seems like a problem. Especially since you have to rely on those people to provide services that you need. If your office building is bombed, should straight firefighters and policemen feel they have enough in common with you that they should be willing to run into the burning building to save you, or should they just restrict themselves to saving straight people?

[Guest regulation]

>Yes, that does sound like a community to me, but it affirms

>the fact that I am not part of one. I think this is

>consistent with the fact that all I want from those people

>is to be tolerated – don’t interfere with my life, cause me

>no harm, and I will do the same for them. It gets tricky

>when you are talking about issues like same-sex marriage,

>but I am content to work through the courts to effect

>change. I don’t think I should have to concern myself with

>all of their issues in order to get mine addressed. I guess

>that could be considered self-centered, or maybe even

>self-absorbed, but I stay pretty focussed on issues that

>affect me and mine.

 

If you don't give a damn about the issues of other people in your area I don't see how you can expect them to give a damn about issues that affect you. As far as looking to the courts, judges in California are elected. What sort of judges do you think the people in your area will elect?

 

>I understand your point but I’m not sure this is a good

>example.

 

Why not?

 

>I would expect straight firefighters and policemen

>to do their job. They should put as much effort into saving

>me as they would any other tax-paying stranger that they

>know nothing about.

 

Why should they? If you communicate to them that you are not part of the same society as they are, why should they care about you?

[Rod Hagen]

I cannot find the damn Advocate issue, but if I remember correctly Norah Vincent gave reasons why gays could not hope for more than tolerance, while other minorities should demand nothing less than acceptance. I don't remember what those reasons were. Maybe it was something like "doing gay stuff is a lifestyle choice.” I was not to impressed by the article, simply because I was too familiar with her other essays to take her too seriously.

 

Soccerstud is a wonderful idealist, and he's worked his entire life to make those ideals a reality. I commend him. He's right, we've made progress and we should continue to fight the good fight. However, I have no idea when was the last time I did something to help out the gay community. Does fucking married men count?

 

On the totally unrelated subject of suburbia. I don't think suburbia is necessarily a gay or straight thing. But it's almost an objective fact that suburbia is evil and dulls the mind. I mean just look at it All the houses are the same, all the yards are the same, the saplings are genetic monstrosities, the commute to Lancaster from downtown LA takes over 2 hours each way. Everybody walks from garage to garage on Saturday mornings looking at each other’s car engines and mooching beers. People in the suburbs tell you how their town has everything the city has, but why is it that they visit Uptown Minneapolis so often if Apple Valley Minnesota is such a cultural paradise?

 

I know why people move to the suburbs, I've heard the reasons from my friends too many times

1. better schools

2. bigger house for the money

3. better neighborhood

4. we want a yard

5. there's everything here that the city has.

 

Ok, number 5 I dealt with. Number 1 if "better" schools means more "gentrified" schools, then that's true. If however one wants their children to grow up well 'rounded, they should consider urban education. Not every city-school is like the one in The Principal, do some research. Number 2, the houses are bigger and they are built like shit so why live in a big piece of shit that has no architectural significance whatsoever, when for the same money you can have an interesting house or, GASP, apartment. The money you save on an apartment you can use to see the world instead of fertilize your uninteresting yard. Ok, number 4 is done too I guess.

 

I remember when my very good friends told me that they were moving from this amazing apartment in a very tall and interesting building in downtown Minneapolis that had great views and was no more than 10 minutes from work, to Eden Prairie? I said "What the fuck for?" We'd talked about it before and my friend responded "We are suburban people. Get over your disappointment, shut the fuck up, and be happy for us". I'm trying.

 

And of course I realize that it is a matter of taste, urbania vs. suburbia, but matter of taste or not, I try to understand EVERYTHING logically, and that causes me all sorts of problems. Soccerstud can attest to that.

[phage]

>If you don't give a damn about the issues of other people in

>your area I don't see how you can expect them to give a damn

>about issues that affect you. As far as looking to the

>courts, judges in California are elected. What sort of

>judges do you think the people in your area will elect?

 

Am I just an uncaring asshole? Do you really care about the myriad of issues that affect people who aren’t central to your life? I’m not trying to be flip here…I’m honestly trying to determine if I’m an uncaring asshole. How wide can you cast the net? There are so many people with so many issues…it seems like they would quickly conflict with one another.

 

>>I understand your point but I’m not sure this is a good

>>example.

>

>Why not?

 

Because they have a job to do and don’t get to choose who they will help and who they will not. They aren’t doing personal favors…they are performing the service they were hired to do. I certainly don’t get to pick and choose the clients I will help. Granted, it doesn’t involve running into burning buildings, but that was the profession they chose.

 

>Why should they? If you communicate to them that you are

>not part of the same society as they are, why should they

>care about you?

 

It’s not like I walk around with a big “Heterophobe” sign on my head. :-)

[Guest regulation]

>Am I just an uncaring asshole? Do you really care about the

>myriad of issues that affect people who aren’t central to

>your life? I’m not trying to be flip here…I’m honestly

>trying to determine if I’m an uncaring asshole. How wide

>can you cast the net? There are so many people with so many

>issues…it seems like they would quickly conflict with one

>another.

 

I recall watching a report on the anti-same-sex-marriage referendum in California on election night in 2000. At the headquarters of those who opposed the referendum, some people had some bitter words for "the majority of our fellow citizens who don't want us to have the right to get married." I felt like asking them whether they had been as concerned about other referendums of interest to the straight community. If not, how could they complain? To me it seems very simple. If you don't care about the priorities of the straights in your community, why would you expect them to care about yours?

 

>Because they have a job to do and don’t get to choose who

>they will help and who they will not. They aren’t doing

>personal favors…they are performing the service they were

>hired to do. I certainly don’t get to pick and choose the

>clients I will help. Granted, it doesn’t involve running

>into burning buildings, but that was the profession they

>chose.

 

You're talking theory, I'm talking reality. In any job, including the lifesaving jobs performed by police and firefighters, there's a big difference between doing the minimum you have to do to avoid getting fired, and putting your heart into it.

 

>>Why should they? If you communicate to them that you are

>>not part of the same society as they are, why should they

>>care about you?

>

>It’s not like I walk around with a big “Heterophobe” sign on

>my head. :-)

 

Do you think it is beyond the bounds of possibility that the police and firefighters who serve your area know who you are? I don't.

[Guest Viewmaster]

Although I thought that I'd had my say with this, something kept bugging me about it because all of my life I've been taught that tolerance is a good thing. Finally I just went to the dictionary--"Acceptance of something not entirely approved" and other various mentions of acceptance. So with tolerance and acceptance being somewhat interchangable, what are we talking about here?