Trouble in Paradise?

[Guest NICOLA917]

Please post your photos here:

 

http://GROUPS.yahoo.com/group/BRAZILNUT/

[Guest SeaGuy]

<Gosh, are you suggesting a two-tier pricing system? One for locals and one for foreigners? I'm sure glad you don't run the local tourism industry in Rio (or anywhere else) because that'd drive visitors away in droves! If you think two-tier pricing should apply to the escorts, why not to the hotels, restaurants, taxis, shops, museums, etc.? Just like in the old Eastern Europe? How would you feel about that? Ripped off? I'm sure you'd squawk if they started charging more for foreigners at the Louvre than for locals, or if they had the same policy for the elevator ride at the Empire State Building, or the entrance fee to national parks. I can just imagine your reaction at the front desk of the Plaza Athenée when they tried charging you three or four times the going rate for locals just because you're a foreigner. We'd hear your shrieking all the way over on this side of the Atlantic!>

 

First of all your list does not distinguish between services that cater solely to tourists as do hotels, in which case having a two-tier pricing system is idiotic because locals do not live in hotels, they live in apartments and homes that are rented on a long-term basis. Furthermore most hotels do offer discounts to people who stay fro long periods of time, i.e. months at a time, so a two-tier system of sorts is in effect. New Yorkers seldom go to the observation tower of the Empire State building, much less do so on a daily basis so its a tourist attraction by definition. The Louvre is a national institution which is adequately funded by the French goverment and does not exists primarily as tourist attraction, though if the government cut their funds which I do not see it doing, it might resort to such measures, along with the measures taken by American museums, spectacle exhibitions, souvenir shops, etc to raise needed cash. Taxi drivers in many parts of the world, NYC used to be one of them, are known to employ measures to increase tab when an unwitting foreigner is on board.

 

<There are other possibilities. If you pay double or triple the amount, some young men might decide that they really will only see 1 client, as opposed to the 2-3 that Tri suggests is the average. That would mean you're advocating setting up a system which provides a message to at least some Brazilians that they are worth so much in economic terms that they can earn a very real and comfortable living by seeing 1 client a day for an hour for each of five days in a week.>

 

Well, frankly I can't imagine many escorts complaining about such a situation, in fact many dream of having a rich sugar-daddy patron. Heck, Gisele Bundchen (gorgeous Brazilian model, for those who possibly don't know) can probably just work one or two hours a week. I don't think she's crying over that fact though. Latins know how to distinguish all too well between work and living.

 

The system I would endorse and which I think is smartest for everyone involved is to sell memberships to the saunas, depending on you level of membership you would pay accordingly, lifetime membership, cheapest rates etc. Part of the money is invested in the sauna and another part could go to provide services for the escorts such as medical and disability insurance etc. Of course there would be different types of saunas, the most luxurious and exclusive having the best looking and most professional boys and the most select clientele. thus the saunas would be both legitimized and professionalized, as you have in the Netherlands.;-)

[Guest SeaGuy]

<Now suppose that the price in the saunas goes up to something like US$100 or US$150, following your suggestions.>

 

I had to write a short addendum to my last message to address this ludicrous insinuation that I or any sane person thinks that Brazilians can get away with charging New York or European rates for "services", not "transferable goods", that are provided in Brazil. Obviously not. However what you guys fail to realize is the obvious that there is a ENORMOUS gap between the $20 or so that is being charged now and $150. I think many of the guys can realistically charge $50 and the real hunks who have a loyal and desiring public both foreign and wealthy domestic can get away with charging possibly as high as $80 though that might be stretching it. Such rates would still be plenty competitive at one-third to one-half of the North American and European rates. Furthermore, I would suggest to any business person doing any business in Brazil, whether they were selling sex or oranges, to charge in dollars or euros whenever possible to protect themselves against inflation and the devaluation of their currency. This is just common sense and you don't have to have a PhD in economics from the Univ of Chicago to come up with it.:-)

[Guest Thunderbuns]

><Now suppose that the price in the saunas goes up to

>something like US$100 or US$150, following your

>suggestions.>

 

>However what you guys fail to realize is the obvious that there is a >ENORMOUS gap between the $20 or so that is being charged now and

>$150. I think many of the guys can realistically charge $50

>and the real hunks who have a loyal and desiring public both

>foreign and wealthy domestic can get away with charging

>possibly as high as $80 though that might be stretching it.

>Such rates would still be plenty competitive at one-third to

>one-half of the North American and European rates.

 

Seaguy - Let me put it to you this way.

 

Now...... use your imagination for a bit. Let's say the "norm" in the US is $150. Everyone pays that (or close to it) and everybody is satisfied with the norm.

 

However in another country where there is a different value placed on escorts and the "norm" there is much higher. Lets say it's about $450, which is rougly the same ratio as the $50 to $150 you were referring to in your post.

 

Over time it becomes known in "this other country" that American guys are HOT......... and guess what - shit! they only cost a third of what we are paying here.

 

So up goes the tourist trade, gays pour into our saunas and everyone is happy. The local escorts are making lots of sales and the tourists are getting a big bargain. Got it so far?

 

OK - One day a bunch of bleading heart liberals take it upon themselves that the poor Yanks are getting screwed - in more ways than one - and they (the tourists) are going to start giving the poor undervalued Americans a fee more in line with what they pay at home. Will we go as high as the $450 we are used to? Hell no - but lets at least give them $300 - after all, it's still a bargain? Right?

 

So a few months later, Seaguy decides to pay his local sauna a visit fully ecpecting to pay his standard $150. "No way", he is told. We now know we're worth $300. After all - that's what we can get from those nice tourists, so we must be worth it. Pay up, or no nookie!

 

Tell me honestly - how would you feel? And also tell me how that would be substantially different from the market tampering you are suggesting for Brazil?

 

Leave well enough alone. Never forget the old saying - "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" It's not your job to convert the escort trade in Brazil to equate that of your home country. If you can't grasp this concept than maybe you should stay home.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Verde]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

We all know that the unfair two-tier or multi-tier pricing system exists in all places and in many situations. Sometimes it's done openly, legally; other times in more subtle, clandestine ways. For certain establishments, hotels, tourist attractions, goods and services,etc. foreigners/tourists/non-residents are sometimes charged more than the locals or residents. I don't think we can discuss here in-depth the myriad reasons for this practice or how it operates, let's just accept the fact that it is being done.

 

Seaguy pointed out the likelihood of double pricing happening among the working boys in Rio: one price for locals and another higher price for foreigners. I THINK ALL OF US DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. On the other hand, I don't think any one of us can stop that from happening either. You should already know that it is right now happening, to a certain degree, among the non-sauna escorts/freelancers, notably those who have found a foreign market for their services.

 

Someone's dear friend Ernani, for example. One of the latest credible reviews by a Canadian I think quoted him at US$150 for a one-hour session in Rio. While, I don't know if its true, my spies in Rio tell me that he could be laid easily by locals for some R$100 (Reais!). Then there's the phenomenal Bruno Gaucho, who's created such a stir and hubbub in this site after he was initially reviewed. If you check his updated webpage, the English version (for you foreigners) says he's worth US$100 for a two-hour minimum of intense pleasure in Rio, but the Portuguese version (for locals) is only for $100 (Reais!). I myself can't afford BG now...unless maybe I get a comp...(Oi FAB,...que tal uma brincadeira por conta da casa?...seja legal!).

 

What talent or skills do Ernani and BG possess that the sauna workers don't. Since there are gringos "loucos e bem fodidos" who are tossing their money wildly and willingly in the baths for "putaria", what's to stop the sauna boys from banding together and in collusion with the owners raise a little bit the price for foreigners. I agree with Seaguy, I don't think it would be an across-the-board price increase as the local clientele won't take it or be able to afford it. The Brazilians gays who are wealthy, young or goodlooking don't normally patronize these type of establishment. So the bath owners and boys would lose their market base.

 

From the current R$50, I would anticipate a slight adjustment, if any, in the price of a programa for a foreigner in the R$80 range, tops R$100. That's still peanuts at the present fluctuating exchange rates (about US$25 to $30). When I first came to Brazil back in '96 the dollar was worth something like a measley 0.80 centavos. A one-time brincadeira at Roger's (the only one of it's kind then in Rio) cost me the equivalent of US$40. I remember giving a fifty-dollar bill and at that time I felt bad for not being a little bit more generous considering the beauty of the boy and the kind of service I got from him and knowing in the back of my head that that session would have cost me three times more in the US.

 

From the majority of the posts I read in this thread, I hope you guys don't get the impression that those sauna boys are living the good life, even by Brazilian standards, with their earnings. In reality, they're in no way like some escorts I know here who play the stock market and live in nice condos. In general, half of the year business is very very slow in the saunas, and for every one very busy, in-demand worker who could sometimes score 2-3 clients a day, there are maybe a dozen who at the end of their shift would beg for $5-10 reais to pay for their locker fees. Also think that in this business they have a short shelf life; and with little or no marketable skills and most only semi-literate, it boggles the mind to think what they're going to do to survive after prostitution. Commit crimes? These boys live in squalid conditions, based on the ones I personally know (except for BG who's got a decent but not luxurious studio) and, especially for those who have families to support, it's undoubtedly a very tough hand-to-mouth existence for them. AND YOU GUYS THINK YOU HAVE TROUBLES...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

But we can't solve the problems of the world. So if the above scenario plays out and the price increase makes Rio or SaoPaulo unaffordable for you, as I said in the "tip of the Brazilian iceberg" sub-thread, there's hordes of nice guys available all over the country. Go elsewhere, you'll be glad you did. In fact, when I return to Brazil next month, I'll only stay in Rio two days (day of arrival and day of departure). The rest of my time I'll be somewhere I can only describe as close to a real eden (sorry can't tell you where it is) where I have found some of the most gorgeous rapazes in the country who are still "pure and innocent" and not jaded and greedy as their counterparts in Rio.

 

Vem matar meu desejo...Vem fazer amor comigo...!

[Guest SeaGuy]

Thunderbunny, the scenario you have laid out already takes place. In Europe; London has been the escort economic hub. In the US; New York, with rates being comparable to London's. Welcome to the freemarket global economy. What works to your benefit is that Brazil hasn't really had complete access to the freemarket. The more attention it gets and the more it learns to market it's goods and services the higher the price will climb. It will not happen overnight but slowly it will happen. As more and more tourists head to the saunas the guys will catch on and get with the program. Sooner or later some smart gay sex entrepreneur will start talent scouting and market his boys in magazines and over the internet to tourists. I know for instance that some of Kristen Bjorn's Brazilian "models" can be had, but you can bet they sure as heck charge more than the guys at the saunas. No reason to worry though, there are plenty of places with plenty of people who are lower on the economic totem pole than you, where people are desperate enough and you can get laid for pennies. Have you considered Zimbabwe? I hear the prices are good. :+

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

<....These boys live in squalid conditions, based on the ones I personally know (except for BG who's got a decent but not luxurious studio) and, especially for those who have families to support, it's undoubtedly a very tough hand-to-mouth existence for them. AND YOU GUYS THINK YOU HAVE TROUBLES...? Paradise...? Whose...?>

 

You could have taken the words right out of my mouth Verde, but I couldn't have put it better and more succinctly.

 

Meas mismas palavras e sentimentos.:*

[Guest alanm]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Let's get real here. I go to Brazil because of the great men and the

great prices. There has been a lot of pious analysis of the escort market in Brazil and not wanting to spoil the escorts. All valid.

But, we also do not want to spoil it for ourselves. Maybe, I just have

an over developed sense of irony. But, most of the points made in some of the long, long postings argue for a position that perhaps by accident coincides exactly with the posters own self interest.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>No reason to worry though, there are plenty of places with plenty of >people who are lower on the economic totem pole than you, where >people are desperate enough and you can get laid for pennies. Have >you considered Zimbabwe? I hear the prices are good. :+

 

Actually I haven't even remotely considered it. Strange that you would use this board to pimp your relatives.

 

Thunderbuns

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Well, of course it coincides with the poster's self-interest. The bottom line is that guys are going to Brazil because prices are cheap. If the prices were the same as in New York, who'd need to fly umpteen hours to a foreign country where one doesn't speak the language just to get laid?

 

However, those long posts are intended to refute the idea Seaguy is trying to peddle that we are somehow exploiting the escorts of Brazil by paying them the going rate there. Please re-read the previous posts to put those rates into perspective with the rest of the Brazilian economy. When you do that, you see that the rates are reasonable, and that a guy who's escorting for a living, or to supplement the income from his day job (and not just charging so he can have sex with men and still maintain the illusion that he's "not gay") can do well, especially when one considers the general state of the Brazilian economy and the extreme difficulty young men have in finding employment that pays a decent wage. Or any employment at all! Things are tough there.

 

When bus fare is R$1,10 (the price when I was there earlier this year), a lunch at a "por kilo" place (heavily patronized by the working class) is R$8 - 10, rent on a decent apartment is R$450 - 500 (and if a guy isn't living at home usually he's splitting the rent with one or more roommates), you can see that R$50 is not an unfair or exploitative price in the context of the Brazilian economy. At that rate, ten clients in a month pays for your rent! Certainly there are slow nights, but you'd have to be very unsuited for the business not to achieve ten clients per month, if you put any effort into it! Is life easy for young working-age men in a third-world country like Brazil, especially when they're poorly educated and lack "connections" that can help them get a decent job? You bet it isn't! Life can be more than squalid for millions of them. For the fortunate ones who have the looks, equipment and disposition to escort, at the saunas or elsewhere, this is a way to avoid the squalor.

 

Also, just look around at the guys, and talk with them. Do they look, act or sound exploited? Some of them may only be doing this for the money, but an awful lot of them are doing it because they are also having fun while making money! After all, they're young, Brazilian and horny! If the play-for-pay saunas didn't exist, a lot of these guys would be giving it away for free at places like the dirty movie theaters that exist in every large Brazilian city, which is where a lot of married or otherwise not-out-to-themselves-or-anyone-else Brazilian guys go to have sex with other men.

 

BTW, Seaguy seems to be out-of-touch with his escort prices in other world cities. Last I looked, prices in London run about half the going price in NY. £100 = US$160. There are lots of escorts in London available at £100. Try to find anyone in New York for that price! Of course, with this information, I'm sure Seaguy will begin a campaign to get the poor, exploited escorts of London to jack up their prices to NY rates, regardless of what the local market will bear. London may be an expensive city for Americans, but salaries on the whole are lower than in the U.S. People can only afford so much, based on what they earn, which undoubtedly explains the escort price structure in London. Same applies to Brazil. Salaries are much lower than in the U.S., so local customers couldn't dream of hiring an escort who charged U.S. prices. I mean, assume Brazilian guys at the saunas did start charging US$200, because that's what prices are in New York. That'd be over R$600 at the current exchange rate!!! That's a month's rent! Or, considering that R$2000/mo. is a decent middle-class salary in Brazil, that would be more than a quarter of someone's monthly income! Would you spend a quarter of your monthly income on an escort? Most of us couldn't afford that! This comes back to the whole original point of this discussion: Brazil isn't the U.S. (or northern Europe), you can't apply our economic values there and expect prices to be NY prices. For that matter, London isn't NY, either; if escorts there routinely started asking for £200 because that's what guys in Manhattan are charging, most customers would choke on that, and business would dry up. Apples and oranges, dears, apples and oranges.

 

And, with that, I would say this topic has been flogged nearly to death. x(

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Well, most of the posters here who visit Brazil for the baths and guys who work there have posted opinions; keep prices way down low, which reflect their narrow self-interest, this is perhaps natural and reflects what has gone on since time immemorial; employers want to have a cheap and exploitable work force that isn't "spoiled" by greed, notions about human rights or other such strange and newfangled ideas, the desire and ability to defend their own self-interest, the classic class warfare scenario. I myself have been to Brazil twice, I enjoyed it and would like to return but it isn't in the plans for the short-term. I'm not a sex-worker, in Brazil or any other part of the world, as the absence of any advertising or mention of my services will attest. So my interest in Brazil is on a human and cultural basis and little else and not related to my own self-interest as I at least try to see things from a broader perspective. :o

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Oh, puh-leeeeze! x( We visitors to Brazil aren't establishing the prices. The prices are established by the providers of the services, themselves. And what human rights issue is at stake here? This isn't classic white slavery. Nobody has forced these guys to work as escorts. They weren't abducted from their homes and enslaved in bordellos. They aren't beholden to pimps. They're self-employed workers. They get paid directly by their clients (they don't work for the saunas). They may have overhead (discounted admission to the saunas, meals, bus fares) but it's minimal compared to what they make. They're paid in cash, so it's all "black" money and not taxed, unlike a salaried worker in Brazil. So give me a break. And pretty puh-leeeeze, don't try telling us that all you did on your two trips to Brazil was chastely admire baroque churches! And when you did go to the baths, or hire an escort from an agency, or whatever, it's a real safe bet that you didn't force R$600 - 900 on him for an hour's work, just because that's what a similar experience would have cost you in New York.

 

FYI, many, if not most, of the other readers of this board have gone to Brazil to do more than wallow at the baths. They also have admired the art and architecture; visited the São Paulo Biennal; gone to opera, theater and live popular musical performances; paraded at Carnaval; explored the landscape and natural environment; and have learned (or are learning) the language so they can experience Brazil and its culture and people more profoundly. They just don't set themselves up as preachy founts of politically correct moral wisdom. I mean, how sanctimonious can you get? You're the ONLY person here with no ulterior motives? Hah! And as far as broad perspectives go, somehow I have the feeling that the only one of those that might be associated with you is the broad perspective of your ass that one of those Brazilian escorts you didn't pay R$600 to had just as he was about to drill it! }>

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

>And, with that, I would say this topic has been flogged

>nearly to death. x(

 

You're right - nearly, but not quite!

 

You're wasting your time with SeaGuy. He doesn't get it and won't anytime soon.

 

In a seperate post. I tried to ask him how he would feel if people from another country came to the USA and started paying our guys 3 and 4 times what they were used to charging. The response he gave indicated to me that he lives in LA LA Land.

 

It's much the same as the guys who claimed anyone picking up a street hustler and getting "it" for 60 - 80 bucks was exploiting the downtrodden.

 

We are supposed to walk around with a placard that says "WE WILL KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY OVERPAY FOR SEXUAL FAVOURS"

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Sorry to disappoint. First trip to Brazil, quite a while back, I wasn't out yet and was as sexually naive as they come. Second trip to Brazil, went with hetero friends and while aware of the Brazilian baths by reputation, didn't have the time to explore it. Next trip, who knows, but I doubt it. Having visited baths in other parts of the world I can in all honesty say that it isn't my scene. I kinda like to get to know the guy a little bit, need to be seduced mentally as well as physically and gotten in the mood. Chacun a son gout, as your fond of saying. Bruno Gaucho definitely rings my bell; he's sweet, has some education, and seems, from my email exchanges with him, to be a very nice guy. Of course as others have noted he charges more than minimum wage, as thus he should and I have certainly encouraged him to do so. Hopefully he'll be able to finish his studies and embark on another chapter of his life with even richer rewards. Same is true of every Brazilian sex worker who should strive to get the maximum amount of fulfillment from life as should their clients. ;-)

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Well, that clears up a few things. You can stop pontificating about the guys at the saunas, then, since you haven't even been there. As for Bruno, he does seem to be young, sweet, and pleasant. Hopefully, despite his youth and sweetness, he won't allow himself to be persuaded by you to set his prices based on those in New York, because he's never going to pay that tuition waiting for the occasional gentleman caller from abroad! ;-)

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

He's not basing his Brazilian rates on those in New York, he's quite aware of the limitations surrounding the local economy. He does however want to come to the states to make a little "real money" if you will. And there are gentleman callers who are willing to pay $R150 to spend time with this beauty. I am among them. ;-)

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

But Seaguy, R$150 is only US$50!!! :o You're totally violating your own principles by exploiting young Bruno for such a measly sum, when you'd have to pay SIX TIMES THAT MUCH for a roll in the hay in NY, or with expensive Laurent at the Plaza Athenée!

 

I certainly hope you're going to be making it up Bruno by taking a suite at the Copacabana Palace (the closest thing in Rio to the Plaza Athenée) where you can entertain him. Of course, you'll take him only to the finest restaurants (no "por kilo" place, that's for sure!) and to top it all off you should give him a shopping spree at H. Stern's and the expensive clothing stores in Ipanema and São Conrado! That should help assuage your guilt for so grossly going against your own principles and taking advantage of young Bruno's third world prices. :7

 

Of course, if Bruno does make it to the U.S., he should charge based on American prices (just as Ernani has done on his trips to the U.S. to make some "real" money). It's a different marketplace. Just be sure that when he comes to the U.S. (or Europe) that you pay him the going rate there, not the US$50 you paid back in Brazil!

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Tri, I never suggested that Brazilian escorts should charge $150 per hour rates. What I have suggested is that they can comfortably charge $50-$80 and still be competitive and cheap by a reasonable standards. As far as class guilt; I have none. My family's fortunes have fluctuated a great deal through the generations, going through wars, economic disasters, social upheavals, you name it my family has survived it, and I have learned a great deal from them and their experiences about the art of living, the art of loving, and the art of survival. It's is due to this skill and knowledge that I am in a position to pick and choose who, where, when, how, and under what circumstances I sleep with someone and I am more than willing to share my knowledge and experiences with anyone, be they friend or stranger. As for taking Bruno to expensive restaurants and entertaining him in lavish style, I would rather he learn to do that for himself rather then rely on others to do it for him.;-)

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

>And there are gentleman

>callers who are willing to pay $R150 to spend time with this

>beauty. I am among them. ;-)

 

Gentleman callers - what century were you born in? Or is your real name Blanche Dubois?

 

Thunderbuns

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Oh, I can tell Bruno's gonna have a ball with you, Big Spender! So much for the sermons on pricing! In other words, you won't be treating Bruno to anything more than a Big Mac. Fortunately he seems to like them!

 

US$50 - $75, by the way, is the ballpark figure for fees charged by independent escorts or the agencies in Rio. At least before the currency crash. So that's hardly advocating for first-world compensation for the poor, downtrodden escorts of the third world! :-) But at current exchange rates (approximately R$3 = US$1) that would be at least R$150, and my guess is that's high in Brazil. Locals consider R$50 more than enough, and R$80 - 100 for someone from the classifieds or an agency is also more than fair (after all, you do end up getting more of their time than a sweaty half-hour in a "cabine").

[Guest Thunderbuns]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

>and I have learned a great deal from them and

>their experiences about the art of living, the art of

>loving, and the art of survival. It's is due to this skill

>and knowledge that I am in a position to pick and choose

>who, where, when, how, and under what circumstances I sleep

>with someone and I am more than willing to share my

>knowledge and experiences with anyone, be they friend or

>stranger.

 

SeaGuy - You are totally delusional.

 

But I'm glad the experiences your family survived has given you such insite into how to pick your bedroom partners. I guess the rest of us who come from "just plain folks" will have to stumble and fall into bed with whoever comes along :-(

 

Thunderbuns

[trilingual]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Actually, Thunderbuns, I was the first one to use the expression "gentleman caller" in this thread. And I'd venture to say that ALL of us here were born in the same century: the one just ended. Unless we've got some VERY spry centenarians contributing to the board! :7

[Guest alanm]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

I was the only one who was supporting SeaGuy, count me out now that he has told us that he has never had sex in Brazil. I assumed he

was talking from some experience, bad assumption. I am new to this

section, but it's nice to know that people do other things in Brazil other than have sex. I love Brazilian music and enjoy buying CDs and hearing every note of music I can in Rio. Anyone who does not enjoy

the beauty and cultural of Rio and only goes there for the sex is making a big mistake. Few cities in the world have as much to offer.

[Guest SeaGuy]

RE: Trouble ...? Paradise...? Whose...?

 

Speaking of centanarians here's a story you flabby assed old queens will be able to relate to;

 

I was at my local cafe/trattoria having my sunday afternoon brunch and reading my paper when at the table behind is seated a group of four ladies of advanced years( i.e. old hags). At first they discussed the usual subjects, children, grandchildren, property taxes, hairdos, you name it and then the following exchange takes place:

 

MrsX: Did you hear that Virginia Snootingham gave her maid Guadalupe a raise of $40 a week. Do you believe that? In these economic times and with the stock market so unstable?

 

MrsY: I know, its all the maids can talk about. Mine had the gaul to ask me for a raise. I was speechless, given how lazy she is and how little there is to do around the house now that its only me and Herbert. I told her I would have to talk to Herbert about it.

 

MrsZ: You did what. First of all we need to set Mrs Snootingham straight, this sort of treatment of the help can not go on any longer. She is absolutely spoiling them. As for you Lucille, there is nothing to talk about, your answer must be a flat-out NO.

 

MrsY: I know Matilda, but my maid Maria has three children and one of them has cerebral-palsy and...

 

MrsZ: Please spare me the details. It's always the same with those people. They simply have to learn to live within their means and accept facts as they are. I don't cut my maid Teresa or my gardener Enrique any slack whatsoever. I run a tight ship of a household. From the moment I hire help I let them know exactly what their duties and responsibilities will be and what their wages will be and there is no ands, ifs. or buts about it. If they do a good job at Christmas they receive a weeks bonus salary a 5% raise every other year.

 

Other Ladies: Oh my, that's sooo nice of you, yes very generous Matilda.

 

MrsW: Well, can I let you girls in on a little secret.

 

Other ladies: Oh yes, do tell us Clara, what is it darling?

 

(Ladies perk up and listen attentively)

 

MrsW: Well, as you know Paul has not been able to get around very well since he had that fall on the golf course.

 

Others: Oh yes poor dear, how is he feeling the darling?

 

MrsW: The thing is, that even with the cane and slight pain in his hip, he's been, how can I put this,well very randy lately.

 

MrsX: Randy?

 

MrsW: Yes you know, well, frisky!

 

Others: OOOH Goodness! (giggles)

 

MrsZ: My oh my, Paul hasn't tried anything with me in years. How are you handling it old girl, enjoying yourself now are you?

 

MrsW: The thing is I'm not up to that sort of thing anymore, I don't know, I'm just not interested in sex anymore, certainly not with Paul. I thought we were past that part of our relationship.

 

MrsY: I know exactly what you mean. I don't even want to look at Herbert's shriveled up old thing anymore, and those saggy balls that are almost down to his ankles, YUCK!

 

MrsW: Exactly, which is why I hiring him a nurse/secretary.

 

Others: Nurse/secretary? HUH!

 

MrsW: You know that wet-back maid that the Lawsons let go last May when they moved to South Carolina, Claudia I think her name is?

 

MrsY: the young pretty one you mean.

 

MrsW: Precisely, well she came to me asking for a job you know.

 

MrsZ: She's illegal isn't she. I remember talking to Katherine about it, they were employing her "off-the-books" as they say, getting her at a really good price especially when you consider that she was a very good cook.

 

MrsW: Yes, well Paul has always been quite fond of her, raving about how pretty she is and how good her food is, how it would be nice if we could find somebody like that, I think it's because she flirts with him.

 

MrsZ: Yes, I remember Katherine said she was a bit of a hussy, even has an illegitimate child down back in Mexico or wherever, enchiladaville.

 

MrsW: Yes, so I hired her, mostly to, well you know make Paul happy, to "satisfy" his needs so to speak.

 

Others: Oh that's smart, good going.

 

MrsZ: How much are you paying her? You must remember she's illegal and there aren't many jobs out there anymore.

 

MrsW: Well we agreed on $?...

 

MrsZ: I think that's fair, thats what the Williams pay theirs and it's roughly the same arrangement.

 

MrsY: Reeealy! I didn't know that.

 

MrsZ: Oh yes, the maid has been polishing John Williams walking stick for years. (laughs) Unfortunately she doesn't do the windows though. HE HE HE!

 

MrsW: That is part of the problem, see I don't know what "duties" she'll perform and we had a little difficulty agreeing on a price.

 

MrsZ: Well just lay it all on the line, you have to do this and this and this and it is all included in your wages. And for such and such you can ask for a little extra. That's what I do with Teresa when she massages or sits on Paul's "throbbing muscle".

 

Others: What?

 

MrsZ: She gets $? for manual care, $? for oral, and $? for sitting and stooping, well you know Paul always preferred to enter through the back door.

 

MrsW: Good heavens Matilda, what next?

 

MrsZ: Oh pleeeease, don't be such a hemorrhoid case Clara. The lazy wet back needs the money and it's not as if she can do anything better really. She should be grateful, and is as a matter of fact. She knows what it's like to go hungry and with that sick kid of hers what is she going to do. She's lucky to have a job....

 

 

I thought to myself, "doesn't this sound familiar, like a certain group of old queens........Did Tri and his gang have a sex change perhaps." :+

[Guest SPQR]

I just retuned from Brazil (18 Aug) and would like to add my observations on prices for boys. At Estacao in Rio, the doorman showed me a card that listed up front all of the prices: entry, cabins, and boys. The last item was set at 50 Reals and I was told it was all inclusive--no extras. He was somewhat emphatic about this and the boys accept this. There was no haggling over prices here. The saunas I visited survive on local customers--not on occasional tourists from the north. They and the boys are very good businessmen and know where their economic base is at the present time. Local business is very slow now and I don't see the prices rising too soon.

 

Having said that, I was also at Club 117 in Rio and Sauna 520 in Curitiba. At both of these saunas, negotiated prices started at 100 Reals because I was from the north. My Brazilian friend started at 50 Reals. I was quickly able to reduce the fee to 50 Reals using friendly persistance and the fact that business was slow and there were no other tourist there. Being from the US I'm not accustomed to bargaining, a skill I hope other know or will learn quickly.

 

I cannot comment on any other clubs.

 

So, for those going in October, you may find yourselves paying more if you are not careful. I don't think this blip in increased tourism will have an enduring impact on the locals as it would if the influx of tourists were to persist. But US tourists are beginning to be targeted for higher prices which could easily become an expectation. Tiered pricing does exist for some airlines, hotels, and restaurants. For example, prices were sometimes different comparing Portuguese with English menus. This could easily be applied to the saunas.

 

Whether I should have or not I did give tips of sorts but not as part of negotiated prices. I had the most wonderful time treating some of the boys and bartenders to dinner after work. Offering drinks was always appreciated but I don't know if they get a cut of this. And I did give 10 Reals to boys who spent a fair amount of time showing me around and introducing me to the staff and a couple of Reals to the towel boys.